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In another thread, there has been discussion about
whether some people can do so many EC's or they're
just lying and padding.

It occurs to me that one variable might be the
amount of homework students have. I've read with
some dismay and skepticism that some students with
Honors/AP schedules have only an hour or so of
homework a night.

So now I'm curious. Please post your average daily
homework load and average daily hours of EC's outside of normal school school hours, e.g., 7:20 to 3:10, or whatever. Include travel time with EC's.

My daughter's are:

4.5 hours EC, 3.5 hours homework

By txmom on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 01:03 pm: Edit

Interesting question! If we're going to do this, please clarify a little: should we include the hours for weekdays only or average all 7 days? (Ex. - much more essay writing and music practice takes place on weekends at our place.) Just trying to standardize a bit.

By txmom on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 01:10 pm: Edit

Thedad - I probably missed it somewhere else, but has your daughter rec'd her NM finalist status? I can always identify with you because we are heavy into music study, as opposed to ballet. I also have a younger horn player with biomedical aspirations. OK - back to the subject now.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 01:40 pm: Edit

Txmom, I was thinking of the nightly weekday drain.
Though, to my post, add another 6-8 hours of EC
on weekends.

Umm...Txmom, I am soooooo embarrassed...my daugher is only a junior. She's going to be at least a Semi-Finalist based on her score but we have a full year to go. In fact, I stumbled on this website while researching questions about NM.

By txmom on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 01:57 pm: Edit

Hey - so did I. Probably because NM offers virtually NO info at all. Everything I've learned has come from here and other NM parents. Well, good luck to her anyway - it was sure a long wait from Nov. or so 2001 to Feb., 2003! We tried to just forget about it. Hint - with hours like that, all the more reason to start on college essays this summer!

Here is my son's workload:

weeknights:

2.5 EC (+ av. 7 for marching season)
2.5 homework

weekend totals:

6+ EC (church is NOT an EC!)
5 homework, mainly reading and essay writing

Hopefully, this is evidence to the powers that be why he has only summer employment to list.

By Mrowry (Mrowry) on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 02:45 pm: Edit

Around 6 hours of homework a night (excluding those late-nighters with projects, compositions, etc.) with 3 AP's, at a public school. Saturday I go to a music prep school, so my weekend homework occupies almost my entire Sunday.

By Smiles on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 07:51 pm: Edit

EC time varies greatly, but the average might be around 3.5 hours (depends upon sport season, how close newspaper is to publication, service projects, etc.). Homework also varies but perhaps around 3-4 hours? Certainly more on nights before tests/projects. Household chores and stuff take 1-2 hours. Of course, some time is spent with phone/IM/chatting/other.
I'm a junior w/ 4 APs.

By Crazyandy (Crazyandy) on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 09:14 pm: Edit

I'm on block scheduling. My school doesn't have AP's though I'm sure 3 of my 4 classes could easily fit into that catergory. Each school night i average more than 3 hours of homework. I usually run after school for an hour and then come home and practice piano for about an hour. Thats all i got time for on a school night. I sometimes do ECs on weekends, but mostly in the summer on days I don't work with my lawn business. I tend to be pressed for time more in the summer though I think, with working, and volunteering a few weeks.

By Jenniferelaine (Jenniferelaine) on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 10:55 pm: Edit

School until 12. MWF I have class from 1-3 (takes 45 minutes to get there, and I'm 15 minutes early). T-Th, I come home and do homework from 12-3. I work everyday from 3.30-5.30. I have play practice 3 night a week 6.30-9 (half-hour there and back, so I leave home at 6 and back at 10). I also tutor before school one morning for NHS. Then I might have to spend the entire day Saturday working on a project or catching up on reading, it really varies every week. EC time also varies because I'm on various committees that only meet once a month or every other month, but this is the constant.

Weekly Totals:

EC Time - 13hrs (tutoring & play practice)
Work - 15hrs (2hrs/wk day+ 5 Sat)
Homework- 6-20hrs

By slacker convert on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 11:07 pm: Edit

It's 2nd semester. Seniors should not be doing homework anymore. Maintain B's and let senioritis take over. My motto- If I dont know it by now, I never will.

By Dori on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 12:25 am: Edit

well on an average school day i'm at school at 6:50 AM (starts at 7:45 AM) and school ends 2:38 PM. almost every day i have rehersal for drama after school, until anywhere from 5:15 to 8:30 (depends how soon the show is). i have a tendency to not do homework at home, i either do it before school, or during some other class. I have 1 AP (taking 2 AP tests tho) and 4 other academics. i also have an additional class 1 night a week for 2 1/2 hours.

so in short:
1 AP class, 2 AP tests, 1 honors class, 2 "regular" classes (1 is precalc)
EC time: 20 hours + 10 hours during school time devoted to Drama
Homework done at home: ~12 hours
Homework done at school: ~6 hours

NOTE THAT THIS DOESN'T INCLUDE WEEKENDS!
I use weekends to catch up on homework from the past week, get ahead for the following week, i'm a TA (teacher's assistant) at sunday school for 3 hours, and most Saturdays are devoted to rehersal (9 am - 4 or 5 PM)

and yes, i know i'm insane but i'll do anything for theatre

By Thedad (Thedad) on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 12:54 am: Edit

LOL, Dori. I like your insanity and I understand.


(waiting for more numbers)

By lk on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 12:55 am: Edit

HW: 4.0-4.5 hours a day
ECs: 1 hour (i actually just volunteer 7 hours over the weekends, but it averages out to 1 a day i guess).

By lk on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 01:03 am: Edit

Oh, PLUS transportion. Ok make it 2 hours of ECs a day.

By Jason817 (Jason817) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 06:34 pm: Edit

HW: 6 hours
EC's: 0

By Geoff on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 07:13 pm: Edit

HW: 30 min to 1 hour
EC: during swim season, 4-5 hours. Otherwise, 1 hour.

By asdfadf on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 10:14 pm: Edit

HW: (1 AP Class, 4 Honors) 2 hr-2.5 hr
ECs: 0-2hr (some days i don't have anything)

By B18c1cx (B18c1cx) on Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 11:18 am: Edit

HW: 0-3 hrs
ECs(including sports): 17-20hrs
ECs(w/o sports): 5-6hrs

My gpa is: 4.232

Football: I was first team all state, first team county, all red division, all american candidate

SATs: Top scores: 700m 560v

By SoozieVT on Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 01:19 pm: Edit

To TheDad.....I have not posted on this forum before but have been reading it for many months with interest as I have a junior and we are in the middle of the college search process. I also read, as you did, of people doubting the ones who say that they have such a heavy extracurricular schedule and still do well in academics or if they are padding or just what. All I could think of when I read that was my own daughters who are top students with tons of homework in demanding classes who are packed with extracurriculars every single afternoon, weekday evening and weekend. Yes, it IS possible to be a top student and do many extracurriculars....it is called being well rounded. Also, my daughters' very heavy extracurricular lives are in no way about padding the resume for college as this has never entered into their choices of activities. Rather, they have been immersed in these extracurricular areas since they were very young cause they love these activities.

so, to answer your question.....My 16 year old junior daughter is ranked first in her class and gets all As and A+s, and has since day one in school and takes the most demanding courseload available...our school does not have much in the way of AP but we have honors classes that are extremely demanding. She also is ahead in some areas...for example is in Calculus and French V. We do not have weighted grades (will not get into this now but she has worked tirelessly spearheading via Student Senate to develop a weighted GPA policy for our school almost singlehandedly, presenting to the faculty and school board who finally are now considering developing the policy and are having a public hearing on it...quite gratifying) but anyway, her grade point average therefore is 4.0 as that is as high as it goes and it is not weighted. She does not even get points for all the A+s which are worth the same as a regular A by the way. On top of the regular demanding courseload, she also is a music student in school, in band on clarinet, in piano in jazz band, in jazz theory as well and in select wind ensemble. She also has an independent study relating to architecture which she is looking to pursue in college so is doing a yearlong indep. study with drafting, mechanical drawing and autoCAD.

Her nightly homework load seems to average about 5 hours per night, sometimes more! I have no idea how she does it, except too little sleep. On weekends, I'd say she averages 12 hours of homework but sometimes way more than that!

For extracurriculars...she has something every day til 5 PM and something every night as well and every weekend. She has: Student senate BEFORE school once/week. She has her current sport every afternoon (not even counting the events/games)....so that is two hours just for practice. She does soccer team, ski racing team, tennis team. Obviously if there is a game or match, there are more hours for that day, plus long distance travel (live in a rural state). She has piano lessons one night per week. She takes clarinet lessons during the day. She has wind ensemble after school one day per week but often has sports conflicts with that. She takes tap dance repetory company one night per week and hip hop dance one night per week and it is an hour roundtrip to the studio. On weekends, in ski season, she has either training or a race every Sat. and Sunday....often leaving at the crack of dawn to travel to the race, and home in late afternoon, back to homework. Games for other sports also take place on weekends in those seasons. So, basically, the upshot is she is out all day at school, all afternoon at sports, and most nights at dance or piano, and all weekend at sports. IN fall, she also was assistant coach for youth soccer and for youth tennis. Also in fall, she worked Sat. nights at a country inn. She also attends some events like she made regional music festival and now made All States for music and also has state championships for ski racing and so forth and all involve lots of travel time. As you can see her days, nights, and weekends are chockful with extracurriculars and she still is a top student. Fitting in the college visits and getting ready for all the college testing has been tricky.

My ninth grade daughter is no different timewise, except I find she has a little less homework than my junior but also is in all honors classes (the top offerings we have at our school). She also is ahead in school taking classes beyond her grade level in several areas. While she has given up sports.....she takes 13 hours of dance classes per week in various disciplines, including being in the jazz dance repetory company and tap repetory company (troupes that rehearse and perform), and the studio is 25 miles away so at least five hours per week are in the car to go just to dance alone. She also is in the school musical which is two hours of rehearsal per day, plus some all day Saturday rehearsals, not counting hell week of course which is more intense. She also takes voice which is two hours roundtrip from our house. She is also in jazz band on piano and in chorus and in various special events she has made such as regionals and All states for singing. She also takes guitar. Basically her schedule involves every afternoon after school til 5 for rehearsals, and out every single night at dance or at piano, and home usually by 9:30 PM, then hours of homework though does some on her laptop on the long car rides. She has a seven hour away from home schedule every Saturday with ballet and voice both out of town. Sounds a bit like your daughter. She also is in STudent Senate before school. She also is a straight A student.

So, it can be done!
Susan

By Fender1 (Fender1) on Monday, February 24, 2003 - 12:58 am: Edit

I do maybe five hours of homework per week.
But....
A. I don't count time that I spend planning in my head how to get things done.
B. I consider myself a superior planner and usually identify ways to get work done in half the normal time.
C. I decently utilize class time.
D. I am a good test taker and rely on my test scores to get As, for example, I have not yet done a single homework assignment in AP Calculus (they're not collected).
E. Oh yeah, I'm lazy.

By Psuhonors (Psuhonors) on Monday, February 24, 2003 - 08:12 pm: Edit

Soozie, your daughters are involved in WAY too much. I didnt know there was such a thing as too much until i read that post. Do they EVER have fun and socialize? There is more to life then being accepted into an ultraselective ivy, life is about having fun along the way as well. So if your daughters are actually enjoying their current lifestyle, so be it. Freshman --> Junior year I did about 2 hours of homework a night and a few clubs/EC but nothing extrodinary. Senior year I average about 30 mins a night with 3 APs. I will be attending Penn State Honors next year and plan to work hard, but just as important, HAVE FUN.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Monday, February 24, 2003 - 09:34 pm: Edit

To PSUhonors....
Yes, my children are very busy people and have been their whole lives out of choice. Let me assure you, that unlike what I read of many posters here, their mission in life is not to go to Ivy league schools per se, though they are top students and will want to go to schools that challenge them. They do NOT do extracurriculars SO THAT they can go to IVY league schools. That has never entered their minds. Some kids I read here are thinking they must do X number of ECs so they can get into such and such elite school. However, my kids have done many extracurriculars their entire lives, long before ever thinking about college. They are still immersed in the same interest areas they got started in at young ages. Both have done theater and dance since preschool. Both are very involved in piano, taking lessons since age 7 and both play a second instrument, starting at age 9. They have been in band and jazz band since fifth grade. One has been in soccer since kindergarten (the other as well but gave it up in 8th gr. due to heavier immersion in theater, her passion), one did softball for nine years, and has been in tennis for six years. Both began ski racing careers at age 6, one stopped at age 12, but the other is immersed in it seven days per week as a racer still. None of these activities began in high school with an aim at building college admissions resumes. My younger daughter has done 35 theatrical productions so far....and yes, she wants to go into musical theater but even her nursery school report card mentioned this about her! She has an agent in NYC and has worked professionally in the field, performing in venues around the country.

We do not make our kids do these things. Both love performing arts and have been involved in music, dance, and theater since a young age when they were exposed to those areas and it stuck. Both did many sports competitively and one still does three varsity sports, but the other is just very heavy into pursuing musical theater as her life's work and the time committments became greater and she gave up her sports activities. There is no way you can MAKE a kid do these things. In fact, I would be nuts to make them do this for any reasons beyond that they LOVE IT and want to do these things. Given where we live, we spend hours in our cars each day commuting long distances to these activities. My kids' schedules are packed, which is more demanding given they maintain straight As in the most demanding courses, which here is a lot of homework...as I said, my junior has minimum five hours per night (have no idea how you have so little....just ONE of her classes has a few hours a night of reading and papers). My kids are simply motivated academically. It is self motivation. Everyone is different. My kids' have always just wanted straight As and are not personally satisfied without doing well in school.

You ask about fun. I have to say, living in a rural area as we do, a lot of the fun and social time is when they go to these activities. Doing sports, dance, theater, band, etc. IS fun for them. They enjoy the activities and are with other kids when they do them. Do they have a lot of "DOWN TIME"? no, they do not, that is true. My older one just cares more about what activity she does than who is doing it. The activity, such as her sport, comes before who she has to be with....she has just always done her own thing, and that comes first for her. My younger one is more into social plans and such and while her schedule is very full, she does manage to fit in an active social life as well. Both my girls go away every summer to programs and have a different set of friends from that who are from all over the country.

Ya know, different strokes for different folks. Do not make assumptions. Not everyone is doing ECs just to get into college. Mine do them cause they have always done them and love them. My younger daughter's extracurriculars also have lots to do with what she wants to major in in college...musical theater!

Also, we do not have all these so called CLUBS that people write about here. My kids are in student senate which meets before school (they have always been in student government since fourth grade and have to love it to want to go to meetings before school). I guess my oldest is in French Club but that just means she is involved in the French trip to France and fundraising for it. Otherwise, their ECs are more of the sports and performing arts variety or volunteering. It is not about joining X number of clubs as I read on this forum.

I am glad you are admitted to a program you are excited about that fits your needs. IF my oldest ends up at an IVY league school, it will not be cause she only wants IVY but cause she wants a challenging school that fits certain criteria and has architecture....if it is an IVY, so be it, if it is not, that is fine too. My youngest is striving for a top musical theater program and many of her summer program friends who are older than she have gotten into these. Nothing wrong with having goals and working toward them if it is self motivated and not for other reasons.

I agree with you that having fun is essential. Please understand that these actvities that my kids do is what they find as being fun! I suppose if you do ECs for resume building that is a different story. If you do ECs cause you are passionate about them and have done these things your entire life, then it is fun for you! We are on vacation right now and my daughter is in bed early. Why? Cause she must be up at the crack of dawn to go to regional championships for ski racing. You only get up and travel at that hour if you LOVE IT! That is what I mean.

Susan

By Beasley (Beasley) on Monday, February 24, 2003 - 09:54 pm: Edit

I was like your daughter, we all burn out some time or another.

By Nyguy (Nyguy) on Monday, February 24, 2003 - 10:27 pm: Edit

I was the same way freshman/sophomore year. 3 hours of sleep a night. Amazing computer science projects. Every club imageinable, and ranked first in my class. I lost drive though during my sophomore year and by junior i was more than content with 5th in my class and a moderate schedule of ECs. This loss of drive was mostly due to spending 3 hours a night sleeping. I would be at track for atleast 3 hours and the rest of my time would be spent doing homework or school related activities. teachers loved me, but i suffered socially. One day I joined a play, made some friends and snapped out of it. The realization that I was making myself crazy unnered me and now i am much more well adjusted. My life had improved on the whole and I am glad i made the decisions i did. I may not be as competitive for college, but I am better prepared for a heavy courseload as I stopped focusing on the minor details and began to enjoy living. The realization that we all die eventually and maybe sleeping wasnt a bad idea opened my eyes to so much more than a book could offer. oh well im rambling now, but i wish you the best of luck, and remember superfluous academic pursuit is not what makes a person succesfull, often burying your nose in the books will only serve to hurt your overall wellbeing

By Mrowry (Mrowry) on Monday, February 24, 2003 - 11:06 pm: Edit

Soozievt: How do your daughters manage to practice two instruments (and voice, I suppose, for musical theatre) when they spend almost all of their time attending things Ñ be it school, or lessons, or activities? They are truly lucky to be so talented... in their respective studies AND in TIME MANAGEMENT!! I started playing the piano when I was 5, and at 8, I took up violin. By 8th grade, I was often getting about 4 hours of sleep per night, and STILL I was having trouble cramming in practicing sessions. I dropped violin my freshman year so my progress in piano would not be hindered. Most pianists I know at my age and level are practicing 4-6 hours a day, but I'm lucky to cram in 2. How much do your daughters get to practice?

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Monday, February 24, 2003 - 11:53 pm: Edit

To Mrowry...
You asked a very good question. It has been very hard to practice musical instruments as the kids have gotten older. They began piano at age seven still taking weekly private lessons. They each began a second instrument...one clarinet, one flute, in fourth grade...mostly so they could be in the school band, but also take private weekly lessons on the second instrument. When they were younger, they would practice daily. If found as they got older and the homework load got so intense, that they have far far less time to practice, certainly not daily. I am talking individual practice at home.....not when playing in band or jazz band. When push comes to shove, and homework is due the next day, it comes before instrument practice. What I find is, that if you are a music student and that is your only or main extracurricular, then those kids do indeed practice many hours per week. That becomes impossible if you are also doing many other extracurriculars. Neither of my kids plans to become a professional musician, though music is huge in their lives. For the kids going on to major in music in college, for sure they would have to practice their instrument to take it to the highest levels.

That said, I must admit, I am amazed that my kids have still done quite well in music. My oldest daughter just made All States on Clarinet for the second year in a row and got a good seat, no less. I am surprised she can excel to this degree when I imagine that most who make it to that level are focusing on music mostly as their EC and are often in the state youth symphony and so forth. She also has made regionals every year as well. The day she auditioned for All States...she had to get up at 5 AM, travel two hours to a ski race, then two hours to another city to audition on clarinet and another hour home...have no idea how she did it. On piano, since age seven, she has entered what is called the National Piano Auditions which requires playing ten pieces by memory before a judge at a particular level. The pieces have gotten way harder and complex as she has gotten older. She decided a couple years ago that she did not want to give up piano but that preparing ten pieces at this level (pages and pages of music) by memory in May was getting too difficult as that is also the time of year for our annual dance performance and finals in her spring sport, etc.....so now she still does the National Auditions at her level and plays ten pieces, but not by memory and this is referred to as Hobbyist. I totally get what you are talking about as far as practice....it is hard to practice enough and she certainly does not to the degree that those whose primary focus is music. However, she has still excelled in this area. She gets an A in band, A in jazz band and A in Jazz Theory in school as well. I would call her a well rounded type of person. To be the tops in something like instrumental music, of course ,she would have to drop everything else to play and play every day. She loves music equally with sports and thus is not willing to give either up, excels at both but is not like the top kid in the country in either! She does make All States in both though.

My younger one is very musically inclined. She also has played piano since age seven. Like the older one, she used to practice daily when younger but that is impossible now with her schedule. However she also memorizes easily. She enters the National Piano Auditions yearly and still enters with playing ten very difficult pieces by memory before a judge (things like Bach Inventions, etc). She also plays piano in the high school jazz band. She took flute as well for five years and played that in band. She decided to give that up.....was not that fond of regular band, plus the schedule for high school was going to be impossible to fit in as she is also a chorus student. She was able to arrange to do chorus and jazz band without doing regular band. She also take jazz theory in school. She still takes private piano lessons. She began private guitar lessons this year. Singing is really her thing. She made regionals for voice and also made regional jazz festival for voice. She is a freshman. At both events, they picked one female soloist and she was it both times, which surprised me given her age (she actually is supposed to be in 8th gr. even). She just found out that she made All States for voice....one of two girls from our school. She also take private voice lessons. I would not say that this area takes a lot of practice time. She also is always working on a theatrical production. The past couple of years she has been the leads in our high school musical (even as a middle schooler....middle school is attached to high school). She is in love with the stage. She doesn't find it to be work. If she were to want to be a professional pianist, yes, she would have to concentrate on that one thing. But she is a really good pianist but does not aspire to do that for her career. She enjoys it a lot and also it is not a bad thing to be able to do as a performer and someone involved in musical theater. She sight reads well. At the high school musical auditions, in fact, the professional pianist they hired to accompany the auditioners did not show at the last minute and she offered to step in and sight read and accompany all the auditioners...so it comes in handy.

Not sure that answered your question. I know if you want to become a top musician, then you would have to give up most everything else. Instead, my kids do excel in music but they love it among several other pursuits.

I get tired thinking of what they do but they just like this stuff. Last week, we got up at 5 AM, drove four hours roundtrip to a high school ski race....missed school....got back to town and then the kids played in the school jazz concert for two hours that night and then homework....I was falling over and I was just a spectator! Be aware that two other ski team members also played in the concert that night and are also top students. I find in our community, often the best students are the ones who are also quite involved in worthwhile extracurriculars...on the sports teams, in band, etc......and they have far less time to do homework, yet they are the ones getting the top grades. And yes, time management is essential.

While it is a busy life...I can assure you that they do not get as little sleep as someone posted who said they got burnt out on three hours of sleep per night .They get less sleep then when they were younger and the homework load was lighter but they get 7-8 hours of sleep per night usually.

Susan

By Mrowry (Mrowry) on Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 12:28 am: Edit

All that with 7-8 hours of sleep per night??? I think there's a serious problem with my time-management abilities. Then again, what I've opted to do is basically what you said about concentrating on one skill and dropping most else; I'm mostly looking into double-degree programs for college (Columbia/Juilliard, JHU/Peabody, etc.). I hope colleges want "diversity" as in... a diverse assortment of well-rounded vs. un-well-rounded people. :-P

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 10:21 pm: Edit

Back to Mrowy....hi, I read your post late last night and just could not stay up any longer and I have been at my daughter's ski race all day and am leaving for college visits tomorrow so want to just respond to you as I have thought about your post.

Now, that I hear about you some, I can clarify some things. Clearly you are a serious music student who is looking to pursue music as a field of study in college, right? In that case, yes, you must devote much time to practicing your instrument each day now in high school. Basically your focus is concentrated on this one area of passion...great! I still realize it is hard to fit in all that practice time but I gather you do not have other diverse extracurriculars and thus your music is your main activity outside of academics. I sort of liken this to my youngest daughter who has given up sports though she did them through seventh grade. Her passion is musical theater and while her hours outside the school day (and some within the school day) are filled up with many lessons, classes, rehearsals, etc. related to this field or passion which, like you, she intends to pursue in college and beyond. Therefore, she has less time to practice piano (though did a bunch today cause she is on vacation and must memorize some pieces for an upcoming piano recital) but it is not her main focus in life. You have to fit in more hours of practice as you are truly focusing on piano as your main thing and am sure you are achieving at a higher level than she is, though she excels. But again, piano is not her main pursuit. To achieve being tops in that area (or most areas for that matter), yes, you would have to focus on it and give many other things up to put the time committment into that one area. So, your piano playing is a bit like her training and activities in musical theater.

However, my older daughter....is what you might call well rounded and loves many things at which she excels and has participated in her entire life but is not focusing on one particular thing extracurricularly. Her schedule involves as many hours as the younger one but the activities/hours are filled with a bit more of a diverse number of significant activities....namely in both sports and performing arts. Both spend the same number of hours each day, night, weekend, purusing these extracurricular things, but one kid is doing ones in one general area and one is doing several in several areas. The one doing musical theater is looking to pursue it as a major in college and for a career, whereas the other child doing the well rounded sort of extracurriculars, loves her activities and is heavily immersed in them for many years, but they will remain extracurriculars in college, and not her life's pursuit. So, that is why when you ask how does she fit in all the hours of instrument practice (knowing how many you must fit in to excel at piano)....please realize while she is an excellent pianist, she is not striving to achieve the level of musicianship that you likely are as you are looking to focus on this in college. She simply cannot devote as many hours to practice as you do but that is ok as it is not her main thing or related to future career plans.

I like the point you brought up about hoping colleges want both well rounded kids and also kids with one main focus. My children did not pick their extracurriculars with college admissions in mind but just cause these are activities they love and have done their whole lives. Sometimes, though, I do wonder how the well rounded older daughter will look on paper at these top schools to which she is looking to apply. She excels at her sports and has done very well in performing arts too....things like States, etc. in these areas...and so forth. But to truly be TOPS in any one of these pursuits, she would have had to focus on just one. For instance, to be a very top tennis player, she would have to play year round and have a national ranking, entering many tournaments out of state. This is not possible as she cannot play tennis year round as she is in other varsity sports during other seasons. To do tournaments that garner a ranking/standing, she would have to travel out of state to compete. So, she has not done those things, yet is ranked number one in our school for tennis, etc. She is also going to be traveling throughout Europe this summer, playing in tennis tourneys against European kids. So, she does well at tennis but to be a top kid, she would have had to focus on it.
Same with ski racing. She is one of the best high school racers in our very competitive state (VT) but to be very tops in the east, beyond high school...she would have had to attend a full time ski academy, and while we have a top rated one right in our tiny town (Olympians have trained here), she did not want to give up music and tennis and everything else to do ski racing full time. She has friends who have done this. She has friends who do the State youth symphony who concentrate all their time on their music and she does not, yet she still excels in that area but just could not ever be the top kid in the region or something unless she really focused on just music. So, she chooses the well rounded route. And I think her choice suits her well, and was not made with college in mind. Hopefully colleges will see her committment to these areas, but she is not going to stand out as the best kid in the nation or east coast in any of them cause to do so in any of these areas, she would have had to focus year round on that one thing, in my view. So, how they look at her, remains to be seen. I think both sorts of kids..the ones with one main focus, and the ones with a few very committed extracurriculars both are interesting candidates for college.

As far as what you shared of yourself...sounds like you are looking to do some sort of joint program between a conservtory and a college and pursue music more than as an extracurricular (similar to my daughter who is passionate about musical theater)....and I just wanted to add one more school to your list of joint programs.....that is from my own alma mater....Tufts University. They have a joint program with the New England Conservatory. Thought I would just mention it...

Much luck to you as you sound like an exemplary person!
Susan

By Mrowry (Mrowry) on Wednesday, February 26, 2003 - 03:25 pm: Edit

I've considered Tufts, actually; I visited when my sister visited New England Conservatory (where she's studying right now). The campus is suburbian and HUGE, though, and being a completely non-sports person, I don't think I'm fit enough to walk those long distances. ;-) We'll see, though.

By Johnnyd (Johnnyd) on Wednesday, February 26, 2003 - 10:51 pm: Edit

im a junior
my school is pretty tough i guess but not too bad
it really depends on the person
i can usually finish my hw in about an hour or two

By Thedad (Thedad) on Thursday, February 27, 2003 - 01:15 am: Edit

One comment on the stats posted so far:

In some ways I am envious of all the students who get less than four hours of homework average per weeknight. On the other hand, I'm wondering just how rigorous your classes can really be.

By Mrowry (Mrowry) on Thursday, February 27, 2003 - 01:21 am: Edit

Not all of the homework is necessarily written. For example, studying for a History test takes me about 8 hours, if it's a short one. (And I still do badly.)

By Thedad (Thedad) on Thursday, February 27, 2003 - 02:20 am: Edit

Oh, I agree. AP English has 1 to 1-1/2 hours of reading per night, on average...and that's what it's designe to be; daughter is a fast reader.

By Fender1 (Fender1) on Thursday, February 27, 2003 - 02:27 am: Edit

Honestly, I do not study as much because I have such a great memory for facts, quotes, numbers, processes, et cetera. As long as I focus in class, I never have to study for Math, history, or spanish. That's how I get away with only doing about 5 hours of HW per week.
Plus yeah, my classes are not across the board rigorous. Big surprise, only 30% of my grad. class plans on attending a 4-year, so i do not go to a high-end school here.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Thursday, February 27, 2003 - 10:07 am: Edit

Fender, you bring up an interesting point. Imnvsho, a good memory is a great asset. And while memory can be trained and exercised, I also believe there is a genetic component. I've got a fairly good memory...if I've read something in a book that I want to go back and check, often I know about how deep into the book it was, which side of the pages it was, and roughly where on the page it was...a great time saver if you're skimming to find a quote or some such.

===
Your comments on your homework indicate a relative dearth of written assignments. Even daughter's calculus homework is routinely checked/graded.

As a side note, I was something like you in high school, getting good grades and great test scores without having to put in a lot of work...college was a very humbling experience and I had to suddenly develop a much better work ethic. The level of competition is completely different.

By Beasley (Beasley) on Thursday, February 27, 2003 - 03:25 pm: Edit

do you donate to chairty?

By Beasley (Beasley) on Thursday, February 27, 2003 - 03:26 pm: Edit

*charity*

By Thedad (Thedad) on Thursday, February 27, 2003 - 04:02 pm: Edit

Umm...okay. Yes. Both time and dollars. Why?

By Mrowry (Mrowry) on Thursday, February 27, 2003 - 10:39 pm: Edit

I had an excellent memory until 9th grade. Then I think I worked too hard and slept too little, so now, it's TERRIBLE.

By Incognito (Incognito) on Friday, February 28, 2003 - 06:53 pm: Edit

0 hrs/ECs
about 5 hrs/HW

By O71394658 (O71394658) on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 08:52 pm: Edit

Is this over the course of the week?
8 hr./week

ECs:
Going and participating in activities:
1 hr./week

By Hahaha (Hahaha) on Tuesday, April 01, 2003 - 11:04 pm: Edit

Per day:
Homework- 2 hours
Research project-30 min

EC's
About 1.5 hours

By Pisces (Pisces) on Tuesday, April 01, 2003 - 11:13 pm: Edit

I used to do like 3 per night all through hs (well, maybe not freshman year)
2nd semester senior year, I bring my books home, they usually make it out of the car, unzipping my backpack is another story...

Is anyone seriously still doing homework (i mean, besides term papers, major tests...)?

By Crypto86 (Crypto86) on Thursday, April 03, 2003 - 06:32 pm: Edit

Wow. You guys all have a lot of homework. I am a sophmore in all honors academics and I only have about 30-40 minutes of HW per night on average. Some nights I have a bit more and some I have basically none. I get morning class HW done at lunch, so that's why I have less than the rest of you. Weekend HW can vary, depending on how much I have for history AP. But I really don't have too too much.

By Number9 (Number9) on Thursday, April 03, 2003 - 07:22 pm: Edit

I usually have hardly any homework, except math homework, that I can't get done sometime within school. Its quite sad, I can finish homework in a short period of time before/after the bell.

Only lengthy math assignments, essays, projects, etc. take time to do at home.

By Primadonna (Primadonna) on Thursday, April 03, 2003 - 09:55 pm: Edit

Freshman-first term Senior year, I was pulling easily 4 homework hours a night, 20 hours of work on weekends and about 2 hours each night to EC's (mainly debate and NHS/SNHS/Stu.Co). I was the typical AP student with way too much on my plate...until finally I had time to slack off this last term and am now enjoying a term full of knock off classes (minus Trig and Econ.APH). What will really help is having the ability to make FULL USE OF THE TIME ALLOTED...I can't stress this enough...the only things i do at home are my independent mentorship studies and research papers each week...and study a bit of trig here and there but that's it. I'm officially burned out! And of course having received almost full tuition to the school of my choice and what have you...has certainly influenced my slacking decisions. tsk tsk...

By Dumbuket (Dumbuket) on Friday, April 04, 2003 - 04:22 pm: Edit

I do 20 minutes of homework a nite MAX!

I AM GOING TO PRINCETONBROWNDUKEHARVARDYALE!!!!!

By Primadonna (Primadonna) on Saturday, April 05, 2003 - 01:22 am: Edit

heh heh...All Ivy huh. (minus Duke) I'm between Brown and Northwestern...so it's going to come down to who wants me most. Thank God for senior year...rationalizing has never been fun until now.

By Leia (Leia) on Sunday, April 06, 2003 - 12:50 am: Edit

I take AP English, AP Calc, AP Chem, and AP History. AP calc is the one i really really have to work at, because math is my weak spot. English and Calc usually take 2.5 hours a night, and Chem and History take another 1.5 hours.
Then Western Civ and Spanish take 1 hour, unless i have a paper for English/Western Civ/History, which tacks on 2 - 3 hours of work. On average? Around 4.5 - 5 hours i guess? A lot of times i do work in other classes, like Chemistry, because it's (usually) not difficult to take notes and get the lectures while doing mindless Spanish homework. EC's..during Drama Season....there's practice every day from 2 - 5pm, and 9am-4pm on Saturdays. So that basically takes up everything from the fall to the spring. Lots and lots of fun though. : -)

After life's over..er.. i mean, Drama.....show choir kicks in, leaving me with around the same 3 hours of EC's a day. But singing and dancing are the best way to relieve stress so it's all good.

Usually i go to bed around 12, get up at 5:30, leave the house by 6:30, get to school at 7, bell rings at 7:15. Woohoo!

I can't wait to go to college and get sleep!! : -)


And it's so nice to know that there are other highschoolers in the same boat...i see my brother come home from school and claim he's "homework free!!!" and i get so jealous {sg}.

By Nyu2010 (Nyu2010) on Thursday, April 24, 2003 - 02:02 pm: Edit

HOMEWORK- 1/2 HOUR
ECS: 4 HOURS
DAILY!!!

By Nyu2010 (Nyu2010) on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 07:15 pm: Edit

My school is one big never-ending party. School starts at 8:30, I have two 90 minute free periods, then lunch, then gym and finally I finish off the day with some American History. During the winter, I spent my free periods sledding down the school hill. Now my free periods are full of whipped cream fights and frisbees. This is truly the way to experience the real world.

By Leia (Leia) on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 11:10 pm: Edit

I envy you.


A lot.

By Carrimelo (Carrimelo) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 01:40 am: Edit

~Sophomore w/ 4.0 unweighted GPA (all A's 97% and up where applicable)
I attend a rigorous public high school.
Classes: 3 electives, AP Biology, MA Honors, English Accel, World Cultures Acc, Spanish 2 and…P.E. (not academic-related, but it takes up time nonetheless)

It’s hard to average things out…so let me explain:

My workload varies with the time of year, but being at school from 7 a.m. to 5 p.m. [gak! 12 hours] is not unusual for me (student council in the morning and speech/journalism/sports in the afternoon).
There are many weeks when I fall asleep studying and wake up early to finish. [Thank goodness I quit debate!]
There are other weeks when I face only 1-2 hours of homework a night (finals week, standardized testing week).
Only two of my classes assign homework every night (usually 1 hour total). The others vary, but their assignments include a lot of reading, sometimes writing. And even without homework, I have to devote a lot of time to studying, especially for tests because they are very detail-oriented and cover extensive material.
My three electives also vary a great deal on their time requirements. If I have speech/debate tournaments coming up, journalism deadlines approaching or a major ASB event to coordinate (sometimes all at the same time), then I may work on them collectively several hours everyday.
Plus I complete over 100 hours of community service every year, mostly during the school year.

I have come close to burning out on this schedule before, but then when the stress eases off, I find my motivation again. =] I don’t do any of these things to impress colleges. I do them because a lot of them involve working with my friends and also because I find they actually do help me develop my character.

By J_Jay (J_Jay) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 10:53 pm: Edit

lol looking at some of ur posts i feel kinda weird...i spend mayb 45 minutes after school each day for ec, then i go home..play sports and go on the comp until dinner at about 730..then i do hw from about 8-830...then watch tv and talk on the phone and stuff till bout 10-11..then go to sleep n wake up at 7. this is with ap calc bc, ap lang, ap chem, and ap phys b. (btw this is average some nights with projects i mite spend a good 2 hours)

By Heythere (Heythere) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 11:15 pm: Edit

I'm just wondering what freakish extracurricular people have that are 4 hours a day. I mean, I may intermittently spend 1hr - 2.5 hr on EC on a day, if there's a meeting or activity, etc, but I mean, 4 hours? a day? what is this

By Ndhawk (Ndhawk) on Thursday, May 01, 2003 - 12:26 am: Edit

On average I spend less than 15-30 minutes at my house doing any sort of school-related homework, I'm a member of the soccer team, I'm in 4 AP Classes, and an honors course. I'm a lead in the school musical, I spend 3 hours a night at play practice, and I used to have 2 hours of soccer practice a day. No school work though, and glad. Actually, there is alot of work, and most people at my school spend at least an hour an night on homework, but I don't study at all, and I don't do homework. I take college-level courses, and you're not required to do homework in college, so my high school teachers don't require us to do it either. Expecting 5's in Ap Chemistry and AP Microeconomics, a 4 in AP Calculus BC. Our physics class is horribly run though, won't do nearly as hot in that.

By Momster (Momster) on Thursday, May 01, 2003 - 11:16 am: Edit

Very interesting...at my daughter's private school, most kids do between 5 and 10 hrs--they have a few frees each day-- a day of homework! Almost everyone attends a top 25 school. I think this shows that there is a reason that grades from different schools are not comparable. I personally think her school is way too demeanding & that they should be getting more sleep but then again,
they all find college very doable.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Thursday, May 01, 2003 - 12:24 pm: Edit

Heythere, my daughter goes to the ballet studio directly from school, arriving at about 3:30. She leaves after her second of back-to-back classes at about 7:10, getting home around 7:15. We live close...by design. Homework average is 3-4 hours per night. She has to be up at 6:00 a.m. to leave for school by 7:00 a.m.

===

Ndhawk, I can't imagine what your class components are for reading and for critical writing. Daughter can usually blow through her French homework in 10-30 minutes but Calculus runs about 45-60 minutes each night, Physics is intermittent (and also crappily taught) but runs 30-60 minutes when it happens and both AP English and AP U.S. History are time sinks with a ton of reading and a ton of writing.

===

Momster, than sounds like Harvard-Westlake or Stephen Wise here in Los Angeles.

By Heythere (Heythere) on Thursday, May 01, 2003 - 12:45 pm: Edit

The dad, does your daughter enjoy this?

By Thedad (Thedad) on Thursday, May 01, 2003 - 02:01 pm: Edit

Heythere, it's her non-academic passion. She's been in ballet since she was 5. We've had two rules about EC's: you have to do at least one EC. You can change any time you want but you have to do the new thing for at least a year.

If anything, ballet is blurring the focus on college because she want *really good* ballet wherever she goes to school. Next year she'll be one of the most highly academic kids at the ballet studio to graduate in the past several years...one girl got into Princeton and another into UC Berkeley, with older sisters having previously gotten into Harvard and Stanford. It's hard to balance the AP classes, the normal homework, the SAT prep, and all the dance classes and rehearsals. Eight months of the year, there are rehearsals: her normal Saturday schedule is technique class at 10:30, lunch at noon, pas de deux class at 1:30, rehearsals 2:45-6:00 or 6:30.

As for the time commitment, you can't be at her level, a pretty decent sub-professional, without putting in that amount of time. She just earned her first solo on pointe, her first solo since Clara in the Nutcracker three years ago, and she's got a little over a year to advance further.

I've written the brief version; my daughter would write several screens full.

By Leia (Leia) on Thursday, May 01, 2003 - 07:01 pm: Edit

Heythere,

There are lots of activities that can run a good 3 or 4 hours...I'm in show choir during the spring, and in Drama from Sept - March... and we practice from 2 - 5pm every day(9-4 on Saturdays and who-knows-what-times during Hell week :-). It's a lot of fun though...

There are other activities that can take a big bite out of your afternoon too..For instance, today i missed show choir because the Academic Team had a History bowl competition which lasted from 2:30pm to 6:00pm(i miss a couple show choir practices/half the practice once or twice a week to attend other ec's i enjoy) . But it was great fun, and nothing beats a bowl where they have real buzzers. That was pretty cool {sg}. There are others too....my school has a TV station, as many schools do, and we make a couple movies every year. This year we made a Western, last year we made a Star Wars flick (that one was my idea {sg}), and the year before that we made a Lego-based stop-motion-animation sort of movie that was pretty neat. And making movies, as you can imagine, takes..well..a long time, so that can easily add to a 4-hours-of-EC's/day kind of schedule. These EC's are by no means freakish (though that's just my opinion :-) and i know i'm not the only one who participates in stuff like this. So, in short, there are lots of EC's that take up quite a bit of time - and are definitely, definitely worth it. Singing, acting, movie-making, dancing...what could be better? (Plus it prolongs homework {sg} :-)

By Jimjunior (Jimjunior) on Thursday, May 01, 2003 - 10:53 pm: Edit

I think that the vast majority of people here need to start managing their time more affectively. I do maybe 9 hours of hw including weekends during the course of the week. I would work more, but I have a uw 4.0 at a school that doesn't weight. I always make sure to do really well on the projects and tests, because that's where most of the points go. After that I dont have to spend my time sweating about turning in perfect assignments

By Thedad (Thedad) on Thursday, May 01, 2003 - 11:10 pm: Edit

Well, JimJ, try that strategy at my daughter's school and your GPA will drop like an anvil in a Bugs Bunny cartoon. Most grades are structured so that homework won't give you an "A" but it can keep it from you. Rolling El Perfectos on the test definitely aren't good enough and virtually nobody does. Maybe a third of the AP Calculus class is scratching out an A; ditto for AP English and AP History, both of which have lots of papers based on reading assignments.

By Heythere (Heythere) on Friday, May 02, 2003 - 09:45 pm: Edit

Thedad--I just have an extremely hard time believing your overly marvelous story about your daughter. No human being can undergo the physical and emotional punishment of waking up at 6 AM and finishing homework at 11 PM with no significant breaks. I mean come on, seriously, what person can do that. I practically have a breakdown if I have 1 hr EC and 4 hr homework because of pressure and lack of sleep. I also think that if you were so busy helping her, driving her, getting her SAT prep, then you wouldn't really have as much time as you do going on these message boards. I mean seriously, your responses are almost instantaneous, and you're always going on the "what are my chances board" saying extremely pessimistic things to children about their college chances. Like right here even--you leave an extremely condescending comment to JimJ who makes a valuable point--you shouldn't sweat that much over a 5-pt homework assignment, saying that he's basically too dumb to get a 4.0 at your daughter's school. I also seem to you trying to put down people who "only" have 2 hours of homework a night, saying that their school must not be rigorous. I mean you probably started this thread anticipating the animadversions you could play on people who don't work an insane (and extremely unbelievable) amount as your daughter. I have friends who do dance and it's usually once -or-twice a week, not every day. I just think that you're either the hyper-competitive father who puts kids down on sports teams who aren't good as your kid, or you're trying to live vicariously through your daughter, or you're totally lying. I think it quite possibly a combination of both.

I told this story to my mother, who also suggested that it was a lie to try to make the author feel better. I mean, ballet is possible to do, but how many honors high school students do that every single day for 8 months? I just find it hard to believe--I don't know a single person in real life who has done that.

If it is true, I think you should consider the emotional impact is could be having on your daughter. Lack of sleep and stress are a terrible thing, especially in her high school years. Why don't you let her let up a little bit, she really DOES NOT have to do that much to get into Yale or whatever. High schools students are supposed to come home and talk with their friends for a little bit, maybe catch an episode of their favorite TV show...not work from 6 AM-11 PM every day. She's totally missing out on high school life's pleasures.

I know some extracurriculars are demanding, on days I have stayed till 6 PM or 5 PM...but not EVERY day. Give me a break.


By the way--don't try to argue that I'm jealous, because I'm not. I would not want to live a life like that at such a young age. I would die.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Friday, May 02, 2003 - 11:04 pm: Edit

Sorry to disillusion you. But my daughter is not nearly unique. There's about a dozen other highschool juniors doing the same gig the same amount of time. One is an honors/AP student at a private school that just came back from a school-sponsored trip to elite schools in the Northeast. Another is an honors/AP student at a high school that requires an hour-and-a-half commute to get to the ballet studio...she does it only five days a week, not six. Btw, it's not *every single day*, she does get Sunday's off; summer intensive program is only five days a week but it's all day...and there are dozens of them around the country; Pacific Northwest Ballet got 2000 applicants for 200 spots, about the same admissions rate as Harvard, and all those kids are making the same commitment to dance and a fair percentage of them are honors/AP kids. Heck, there's one family at the studio whose three oldest girls have gone to Harvard, Stanford, and the third, a senior this year, accepted at Berkeley.
Outside of your experience or belief? Not my problem.

She just doesn't "do dance," as some of your friends do, she pursues it. She saw her first Nutcracker at age two, pointed and said, "That's what I want to do."

My point to JimJ is not condescending...it's the truth. At daughter's school you can't skate on the homework. I didn't say he was too dumb, I said his blowing off homework would sink his GPA. What about that don't you believe?

Your premises are also screwed up: there is no way that I could get my daughter to do the amount of ballet she does if she didn't want to. Moreover, it's not something she's doing to get into Yale. It's something she loves doing. She also wants to get into a highly competitive school. You can't believe the combination? Your limited imagination, I guess.

Don't believe it? Your problem, not mine.

You do put your finger accurately on one thing: she may watch a movie when there's an occasional free evening but she doesn't watch TV at all, except for political shows during election season. Would rather dance than watch TV...her life is almost totally school and dance, with friends at each. Spring show is in two weeks...if you live in California, go on line to Ticketmaster and get tickets to Westside Ballet's Spring Show on 5/17; you'll see my daughter in three of the 10 pieces, four in the evening show, including a pointe solo.

As far as your suppositions about me, all three are wrong, but suit yourself. If it were vicarious, she'd be a left-handed relief pitcher for the Chicago Cubs.

Just as you wouldn't want her life, she wouldn't want yours either, she enjoys hers as it is.

I *do* wonder how one can be taking 3-4 AP classes and only have an hour or two of homework a night: reading, writing assignments, problem sets, etc.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Saturday, May 03, 2003 - 12:10 am: Edit

My daughter just read this entire thread. Responding to Heythere, she was much more succinct than I: "He's ridiculous."

By Texas137 (Texas137) on Saturday, May 03, 2003 - 12:46 am: Edit

She saw her first Nutcracker at age two, pointed and said, "That's what I want to do."

This sounds exactly like a story I heard about Isaac Perlman. He supposedly heard a violin being played on the radio when he was about 2 and said "I want that". Of course, you have to wonder how many radios his parents bought him before they figured out that he wanted a violin.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Saturday, May 03, 2003 - 01:02 am: Edit

LOL, Tex! Alas, my daughter's talent isn't of Perlman range. I'm afraid she's more like a Double-A ballplayer. Oddly enough, given the right circumstances, I think she'd make a better actress than a dancer, particularly live theater and particularly period pieces. She has no patience for modern commercials, sappy teen dramas, etc.; she did take acting classes for a while and was the only kid in the class without an agent. She knows what she likes and won't mess with what she doesn't. From Shakespeare to Jane Austen and even some of the Victorian Romantics (Burnett?) who wrote things like "The Little Princess" is where she lives. Or Noel Streatfield...she'd leap at a role in "Ballet Shoes" in a flash.

===

TheMom's comment: "I guess he's never met anyone focused and disciplined."

I know at least one TheaterKid who's at least as focused as the top BalletKids I know...she's does at lot of her homework at the theater; she acts, sings, dances, works tech, you name it. She doesn't get much sleep, either.

By Heythere (Heythere) on Saturday, May 03, 2003 - 12:30 pm: Edit

LOL--are you implying I'm unfocused and undisciplined? PLEASE--you don't have to work for 15 hours a day to be "disciplined" and "focused"

By Thedad (Thedad) on Saturday, May 03, 2003 - 12:52 pm: Edit

Put it this way: you can't do what they do unless you are. Since you haven't, you've never been tested.

By Heythere (Heythere) on Saturday, May 03, 2003 - 03:06 pm: Edit

Actually, no I don't think the true test of someone's willpower is to see whether or not they can survive the pressure of maintaining wonderful grades at an (apparently) extremely difficult (private?) high school, while maintaining the near toothpick body size and image and conditioning needed to be a ballet dancer, and preparing for the SAT. You say you couldn't force your daughter to do ballet, she wants to do it. I can certainly believe a girl wanting to be a ballet dancer. Perhaps she did pick up the activity on her own--but don't you think she might feel a little pressure if she ever wanted to quit or take a few days off--I mean, her Dad is on these message boards nearly 24/7 (do you have a job...?) bragging incessantly about his daughter's discipline and putting down other who (99%+) of them, don't work from 6 AM - 11 PM 5 days a week. I mean, if she were to say to you, "Dad, I can't take this anymore, I want to stop," do you think she would not be a little timid to do this--especially since her dad would have less ammo to throw out on an anonymous message board he seems to have ample time to visit? You may not be forcing her to do something, but you certainly, from the comments I've seen you make, don't seem to give her the impression she could ease up on herself. Having a Dad that goes on message board WAY more than normal human beings, gleaning from these ridiculuous posts that the only way to get into a "good" college is to have a passionate extracurricular activity and an extremely--if not overly--rigorous courseload does not exactly make that person feel comfortable that if they did want to take one less AP class than the number one kid, their parents would be supportive of that decision. I'm not saying you outright say to your daughter what she must or mustn't do--but I have no doubt she feels the stress and pressure of a Dad (if you really are one--I just can't imagine my father, with such a busy schedule and much more tactful approach to writing, spending nearly all his time writing on College message boards) who puts down people or writes insensitive comments "your ECs are weak for X college," when you really don't know how hard that person worked.

Examine yourself please, you come off VERY suspiciously.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Saturday, May 03, 2003 - 05:03 pm: Edit

Heythere, you keep swinging and missing. Remarkable. First, her high school is public.

Why are you so hung up on the idea that she doesn't want a few days off from something she loves? Last summer, we picked her up from her summer intensive in New Mexico and, instead of flying back directly, took, five days to drive back via Santa Fe, Flagstaff, Phoenix, and a bunch of national parks and monuments along the way. She was downright "itchy" to get back to dance in L.A. and this year was much relieved that we're going to spend only two days in New Mexico after the end of camp instead of five. If you don't believe this profile, suit your self, but you might want to ask yourself why you don't believe it? Your theory about *me* pressuring *her,* explicitly or implicitly is 100 percent pure bullsh!t.

Now, Slick, first you accuse me of being a liar and now you ask if I have a job. As a matter of fact, I'm self-employed with a six-figure income plus I work as director of marketing for the ballet company. I co-direct a writer's workshop, and am a lightly published fiction writer in addition to the day job. I'm involved at the high school, being one of the half-dozen or so parent hosts for visiting college reps, I'm on my second year of Site Governance, and on the executive board of the Orchestra Parents association; I also work with the PTSA board's Health & Safety committee as the chair of a taskforce on parking problems...we're currently in negotiations with the city about some changes. I'm also a regular correspondent on a athletics-oriented message board. Fwiw, I've been encouraged by the management of this board to participate, which I'm happy enough to do. Any thing else about me you need to know?

:::: who puts down people or writes insensitive comments "your ECs are weak for X college," when you really don't know how hard that person worked.

Well, here we come to the crux of a problem. Some EC's *are* weak for college and how hard someone works isn't the measure of how good the EC is, is it? If an EC pattern is weak, it's weak.

You have the right to skip reading my posts, you know...and maybe you should. I've gotten enough e-mail from kids on this forum asking me for my advice that I don't think it's a completely useless activity.

By Reject (Reject) on Saturday, May 03, 2003 - 05:34 pm: Edit

honestly, i'd hate to be your child. The reason is because your daughter will never have a teenage life where she can look back and said, "wow, it was a blast." Yes, i am sure you will respond with the same jibberish that, "oh, my daughter would say that because she had a blast doing dance." Dont give me that BS. You have completely programmed your daughter to work work work and meanwhile not have a social life and do with the general majority of high teenagers do as fun. Looking at the laundry list of positions you currently have, i can see why she is was she is. Sorry to seem condescending, but you are an overchieving freak. Your daughter cannot see outside than what you let her eyes see and therefore has to suffer.

By Nyu2010 (Nyu2010) on Saturday, May 03, 2003 - 05:50 pm: Edit

Nice one Heythere. You're smacking him down. Keep up the good work.

TheDad: How do you make six-figures by being a director of marketing?

By Primadonna (Primadonna) on Saturday, May 03, 2003 - 07:41 pm: Edit

TheDad, do you consider Forensics to be a competative EC that looks splendid on a resume? Just curious. What other EC's do you find competative and as established, "good enough"...just asking, i'm not griping at ya.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Saturday, May 03, 2003 - 07:43 pm: Edit

I know marketing directors that make that kind of money but I don't; the mktg job is volunteer. Re-read what I wrote. Btw, you can congratulate HT when he finally says something that's true.

Reject--interesting choice for a screen name.
Neither you nor HT seem to have the idea that some people have a drive to get things done. Fwiw, my daughter would tell you that her life *is* a blast...her biggest boredom is in the non-AP/Honors classes in subjects that aren't tracked. Maybe you'll get it some day and maybe you won't. Lots of folks are content to come home from work, pop open a beer, and plunk down on the sofa; for others, life is too short.

By Primadonna (Primadonna) on Saturday, May 03, 2003 - 07:51 pm: Edit

I guess I do have some inquiries about the subject- I'm a typical "overacheiver" by standards of others, AP/H courses in high school, intensive EC's and high achievement I suppose, but I'm curious because it seems like you are being acosted with all sorts of assertions like certain student imput via EC's don't suffice for X requirement or whatnot...This term i have little obligation because I dedicated myself to a lot of things in the past...do you think "spreading myself thin" (for lack of a better description) is risky when it comes to applying for college?

By Thedad (Thedad) on Saturday, May 03, 2003 - 09:51 pm: Edit

Prima, I think Forensics is one of the better EC's because it can be taken to a very high competitive level: state, national, etc. A lot of EC's--such as student government--I do think are laundry list kinds of things because they seldom involve doing or achieving anything meaningful PLUS they're a dime a hundred.

At the Harvard info session, they talked about wanting two kinds of students: lopsided and well-rounded. So there's room for both kinds. I think a good well-rounded student may be harder to stand out in the crowd if they have the same mix of EC's that everyone else does. Look at some of the EC's posted on this board and start doing a scatter diagram (no, I don't have the time) and I think you'll notice some of the same one's being mentioned again and again...if you're doing those, I think it's going to be hard to stand out. Community service is getting to be yawnable...everyone does it...you need to have a unique slant for it to stand out.

At the Yale info session they made the assertion--which I've heard in the context of other schools as well but for Yale I was there for the direct quote--that 80 percent of the applicants could do the work, Admissions job is to somehow pick 1/8 or so of those; remember, if you aren't a legacy, athlete of interest to the school, or URM, the fraction is even smaller.

There are so many spectacular GPA's and test scores that the two best ways for you to stand out are your EC's and your essay...and most students' essays aren't as kick-ass as they think.

For a well-rounded student, I think 3-4 is not spreading one's self too thin...beyond that, it's hard to make meaningful contributions/achievements as the time gets spread thinner and thinner.

===

I ducked into the first dress rehearsal today and made mental notes on the girls in the last piece, some 26 of them. (Large ballet school, production has 140+ overall). Of the 26, 8th-grade through high school senior, 40-50 percent are also serious students of the Honors/AP variety. A number took SAT tests this morning while many others avoided the stress and conflict by either taking it last month or planning to take it next month. Ten of them are high school juniors, mixed between public and private high schools.

I'm curious as to what kind of commitment HT and others think is given by anyone aspiring to be at top level dancer, theater student, swimmer, skater, or gymnast. Thank God daughter is not a not a skater...getting up for 5:00 a.m. ice time would not be fun.

Having established level of commitment, why is it so unlikely that a substantial fraction of these kids also be top academic students?

By Heythere (Heythere) on Saturday, May 03, 2003 - 09:55 pm: Edit

Thedad--Oh--so you're the type of father who says their children are bored when they "are not being challenged." PlEA-EASE. That is just so inane as to defy articulation--children get bored when they aren't being challenged I suppose, but I certainly don't think you nor your daughter would disagree that she doesn't have ample challenge on her plate to take care of that silly honors Latin class she has to take that is two FULL (my god!) chapters behind of the AP latin class! Poor little smart ballet girl! I feel so bad, I'm touched.

"Neither you nor HT seem to have the idea that some people have a drive to get things done. Fwiw, my daughter would tell you that her life *is* a blast...her biggest boredom is in the non-AP/Honors classes in subjects that aren't tracked. Maybe you'll get it some day and maybe you won't. Lots of folks are content to come home from work, pop open a beer, and plunk down on the sofa; for others, life is too short."

I love how you suggest that I'm some person who has no inner drive or something--let me reassure you, I am. I would be surprised if I wasn't in the top 3/4 of my class, I have an outstanding work ethic, am an officer of clubs, I am on the youth board of MADD (so your reference to beer was nothing short of offensive, really), and so on. I'm sorry I'm not on Broadway or something--if that would evince any sort of accolade from you. I also know some people who do ballet on wednesdays and thursdays of the school for 2.5 hours. I guess they aren't good enough for you. .

You also seem to think that your daughter is immune to stress. In fact, I want to have your daughter's genes because by-god she seems inhuman! I love her! I want to meet her! You also seem to think that you know your daughter's exact feelings and wishes. Oh ignorance.


Your defensiveness about your "six-figure" occupation AND your willingness to argue with a 16 year old also kind of negates your entire argument. How many mature adult males would actually do this? If they really knew their daughter's accomplishments--why would they care what other people think? I guess you don't really have as much as an internal drive as your daughter--maybe you could be making a full SEVEN figures if you didn't talk on these boards!!!

I must admit that I have a propensity towards skepticism, I must point it out whenever I see it. This message board is the breeding ground of liars. I know this because I have tried out some little experiments on it with friends--people lie ALL the TIME about this college bs to make themselves feel good.

Now you better get back to that six-figure salary job that requires no work, go ahead! (Yeah the fact that you had to include the "six-figure" part lessens the maturity level a bit as well--seriously, how many grown men have the time to argue about their job and salary with a self-admitted teenager? I guess that six-figure really makes you sound more credible. Guess what? It doesn't.)

By Heythere (Heythere) on Saturday, May 03, 2003 - 09:58 pm: Edit

By top 3/4 I don't mean top 75% haha.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Saturday, May 03, 2003 - 11:43 pm: Edit

HT, I engage in dialogue with a wide variety of people, including 16 year olds. Some of my daughter's friends are startled that an adult takes them seriously, as people.

Fwiw, you're a lousy reader. Nowhere do I say my daughter is immune from stress. Stress comes with the territory: she wishes to give up neither ballet nor high-end academics. Your friends who take ballet twice a week are doing what's good for *them* but they certainly wouldn't have the level of technique nor get the performance roles my daughter gets. I noticed you answered neither of the two questions I posed, about what it takes to strive to be a high-end dancer, theater person, swimmer, gymnast, etc., nor the combination of such with being intensely academic.

A certain amount of skepticism is laudable; perhaps one day you'll learn to sustain it without being a proctologist's delight. Good bye, HT. Have a nice life.

By Autodidact (Autodidact) on Sunday, May 04, 2003 - 12:59 am: Edit

Heythere: It not only is possible, but logical for a student who shares a passion for an activity to be happiest when in the company of others who share that interest. You are correct that most adults wouldn't waste/invest their time arguing with you. It is a measure of thedad's patience and interest in free expression which allows this dialogue to continue, so don't knock it. For what it's worth, my younger daughter devoted so many hours to dance, swimming/diving that,if she'd had her way, swimming suits and leotards would have been the entirety of her wardrobe until 5th grade. Then she decided to focus on basketball, 6th grade she added power tumbling in 7th grade, until an injury barred her from Jr. Olympics and had to suck it up while a girl she'd consistently beaten each time they competed took home "her" gold. The bright spot was that she'd helped coach too cousins to gold. She has two chipped patellas, and has had numerous sprains and sublexation of her rotator cup, and chronic pain to show for her troubles. Her main focus right now is her modeling and acting, but she still finds time to talk to friends on the phone, sing, dance, date, and do her homework.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Sunday, May 04, 2003 - 12:47 pm: Edit

I will jump in here. For one thing, people are questioning whether a kid can devote this number of hours to ECs when the ones they participate in do not require this much time. Our school does not have these "club" type activities that many here post about. Perhaps those actvities do not require many hours. The activities my kids do require HUGE numbers of hours of committment. Both of my high school daughters are in the highest most challenging courseload available and maintain straight As. My junior is first in her class. She has at least five hours of homework per night, way more on weekends. My kids EC's involved being out of the house every single afternoon and evening, and weekends as well. We often even have conflicts between these activities when a game comes up or an added reeharsal or like with All States for Music this week that takes them out of town and they have to miss many ECs. Older daughter does these ECs, most of which involve many hours each day: three varsity sports (3 seasons) and these involve a few hours per day of practice, way more for games/meets/races plus tons of travel time in a rural state and weekends as well, two dance classes per week which is 25 miles away, piano lessons weekly, clarinet lessons weekly, band, jazz band, select wind ensemble, student senate. Those are her regular stuff. She does NONE of these to look good for college admissions. To the contrary, like thedad's daughter, she has these passions that she has pursued her entire life cause she LOVES them. Nobody makes her do them. Does it make for a very full life with stress at times of how to get all her work done? I am sure it does but she is not complaining, she is choosing to do these things. We are there for support. Could she cut corners on schoolwork? Sure, I bet she could but she is the type to strive to do her best, just is self motivated that way. Like thedad, I have no idea how some here say that they take all AP/honors classes and have less than an hour of homework per night. I do believe you but just saying that that is so extremely opposite to the classes my daughter takes. Just her Amercian Studies class alone which is integrated English and History has about three hours of reading and papers per night easily. There is no way to get out of it. Every subject requires homework per night. Again, you would not succeed in these classes if you did not hand it in. There are papers in French, lab reports in chem, calculus problems, etc. etc. So, while that may not be the case where you go to school, do not assume the situation is the same everywhere. If ECs that you do are just a few hours a week, that may be so but again, that is not the same as everywhere. Just being on a sports team is a six day per week committment here alone. And that is not all she does. My kid is up very late each night. Let me see, this past Friday, she had to leave school early, travel 1 1/2 hours to her tennis tournament where she normally would have had to stay for four hours but she played the first match (is number one seed) and I travelled there to watch but also cause I had to pull her after her match cause we had to travel one hour to her dance studio, she had a two hour class rehearsal in that city and then another half hour home and got back at 9 PM. Normally she then would have had hours of homework but it was thankfully a Friday night and she had SATs out of town the next morning so she called it a night. She is now working all weekend on her homework and music practice for her annual piano "auditions" and had a piano lesson today as well.

My freshman daughter takes five dance classes per week plus is in the select dance troupe which rehearses weekly and thus dances 13 hours per week with five hours of drivetime alone for that one EC. She also misses school for dance performances as she did two this past week for example. She also takes private lessons in piano and in guitar and is in the jazz band and in chorus. Like her sister, she is in All States for music this week and must miss a few days of school. She studies voice each week which is two hours roundtrip. She has done over 30 musical theater productions (her passion). The one that just ended had about 13 hours per week of rehearsal time. She is in student senate which meets before school as well. So, like her sister, she has ECs every afternoon, every evening, and all day Saturday. Believe me, she begs to do these activites....nobody makes her. She spends six weeks every summer at a theater camp out of state and plans to go into musical theater as her career. Nobody would put in these number of hours if they did not love something. She has a deep passion and love for these activities. None are done for college applications, and she has done each of these things since a very young child. She gave up ski racing, soccer, and figure skating due to conflicts and the bigger committments she has made to the former activities mentioned. Not enough hours in the day. She still has conflicts at times.

My observation WHERE WE LIVE.....is that often the top academic students in our community are the ones with the heavy EC loads as well. I admire how they get good grades when they are the ones who have more limitted time at home to do the work. Do my kids watch TV? They do not have time. They watch the news over breakfast. My younger one has us tape American Idol and Friends as she is never home to see these but watches the tapes when she can.

You know, different strokes for different folks. Some of you are knocking the dad's daughter and her lifestyle but the kid is happy. I read where she read that post over that was critical and her remarks are EXACTLY what my kid would have said.

So, attack me too if you want but my kids are busy but happy doing what they do. Time management obviously plays a part. If some of you have less homework, yay! But my kids are not choosing to have lots of homework, they just do. They are choosing to do a good job, and I cannot complain. That does take many hours per night to accomplish given what they are assigned. They are even assigned papers and work over school vacations! My daughter just returned from the French trip to France and was expected to have all this work to hand in when vacation was over. So all schools are different. Please stop doubting thedad's word. Frankly my kids' lives as far as schedule goes mirrors his daughter's. If anything, my kids are doing more things as far as ECs.

And so what if a parent posts here? Some of us might want to connect with other parents who are going through college admissions and so forth. It does not mean we do not lead busy lives. Maybe this is a break for us!
Thanks for reading....Susan

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Sunday, May 04, 2003 - 12:52 pm: Edit

I just remembered, older daughter worked a job all fall for four hours on Sat. night and would have done so in winter (they wanted her to) but that was unworkable with having to be up at 6 AM both days for ski training and ski races out of town. I also forgot to say she was assistant coach for youth soccer, reffed youth soccer games and helped teach youth tennis in fall too. She loved it and chose to do these things. Her job was to help pay for her upcoming summer tour of Europe playing tennis matches...the program matched her work earnings with scholarship.

You know, some kids do love doing these things. Don't knock it.

By Primadonna (Primadonna) on Sunday, May 04, 2003 - 01:06 pm: Edit

I find that most students that have an innate desire to achieve any top levels of academia, gymastics or anything are confronted with the same amounts of stress. Certainly your daughter and the daughter of the aforementioned post have artistic/athletic commitments, however, other rigors involve (if as desired) the same levels of intensity and pursuance. In my situation, I am an URM who will be attending Northwestern next year. I was admitted allegedly based on my academic success and my extra-curricular achievement, but I question if the decision was more so attributed to my ethnicity or my achievement in high school. Going back to forensics, I've gone to state and nats my varsity years, yada yada i've got a lot of awards for both acting and debate, but more than that I think I selected my other activities more wisely than say, the laundry listed "student council" and "volunteerism crew" or whatnot. So I agree with you there. (Forensics aren't the only thing I've done, thats just an example) What else is your daughter involved in or outside of school, out of curiosity?

By Primadonna (Primadonna) on Sunday, May 04, 2003 - 01:19 pm: Edit

I agree with SoozieVt. I am that kid you're describing and my parents made sure that I always won first, made the top grades in the top classes and so forth and so on. Though one could argue that my stresses have always been perpetuated by my parents, in high school i decided that I absolutely had to make myself stick out because I had no choice, I attend a private magnet school and of a very small graduating class of "badasses" that do anything from play semi-pro raquetball to broadway leveled acting. It becomes moreso a challange to yourself, and I definetly, without reservation, can certain that such kids as the previous daughters described do exist. I'm no ballet dancer but through intensive support and self-motivation, I've set my own standards and if people can't understand that, sucks to be them. Life is too damn short.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Sunday, May 04, 2003 - 01:38 pm: Edit

Primadona..I really admire you and congratulate you on your admittance to Northwestern...way to go! I never meant to say that only performing arts and sports ECs are the ones with huge time committments. We do not have forensics where we live. I am sure your time committment was substantial. I mostly meant that some were questioning how some ECs could take up so much time when theirs do not. I can only assume that some of their ECs are the type we do not have where we live...they refer to these clubs and such that we simply do not have here. Here the performing arts ECs and the sports teams are very large committments. Very few ECs here are minimal time type things. Student senate I guess is the least time involvement of the stuff my kids do. On the other hand, my daughter worked weekly on an initiative for that area with meeting with other kids, researching, writing propsals, meeting with faculty and such. It was time consuming on top of all else, but still not the same number of hours as her sports teams, music, dance, etc.

I am not sure what you are asking when you say what else does she do in and outside of school? Maybe you mean something I do not understand? Cause I basically listed the stuff.....three sports teams that are through school, (actually I did not mention that in winter she additionally is in a ski race training program on weekends not affiliated with school and does USSA racing as well as the high school ski team); she does band, jazz band, select wind ensemble, tap dance repertory troupe (outside of school), hip hop dance class (again not at school), piano lessons privately, clarinet lessons, worked at restaurant on Sat. nights in fall, and assistant coached youth soccer and reffed their games and occasionally helped teach youth tennis. While this is not an EC, she also is doing an independent study each day in architecture related stuff (her intended college major) in drafting, mechanical drawing, and Autocad. Then there is the college search process (you know it well) and college visits which have been very hard to fit in but we have done nine this year, SATs and SAT2s as well, yikes!

Freshman daughter has 13 hours of dance classes per week and the dance company rehearsals (our studio is 25 miles away), drama and musical productions (which involve about 13 hours per week of rehearsals when in season), piano lessons privately weekly, guitar lessons privately weekly, voice lessons privately weekly (45 miles from home), chorus, jazz band. She has given up her sports cause of the time committments to these other things. She does student senate as well but that is before school. There are additional things like she has made regional music festivals and jazz festivals, and now All States, as her older sister and these involve additional rehearsals and then a few days out of town to attend. Her dance troupe also performs around the region at this time of year during the school day (not affiliated with school, she must miss school). We also have upcoming annual dance performance with additional rehearsals for both my kids coming up in next two weeks and annual National Piano auditions which involves memorizing ten pieces and playing them before a judge...very busy time of year here! While not often this year, my younger one also has an agent in NYC for singing/acting and has at times made many trips to NYC for auditions or rehearsals for a job and we live six hours away. I put my miles on, believe me!
Susan

By Primadonna (Primadonna) on Sunday, May 04, 2003 - 02:11 pm: Edit

Hmm the question about the other EC's was for TheDad-my apologies! (I suppose we both wrote a message at the same time or whatnot). I agree entirely that everything is dependent on the area, the activities offered and the time involved. Circumstance predicts all one could say. The truth is yeah, I sucked the juice out of what lemons were available, but also searched and created new fruits to enjoy...and let me tell you this whole disbelief that such a feat is conquerable is utter BS, and it genuinely sucks that some kids (and parents) stand surprised or skeptical when such a profile is presented. Oh well, to each their own. All through high school i've done a series of projects of differet sorts, worked on weekends and paid my own flights, tournament fees, competition waivers, recently, application fees. I've maintained a 4.0 and have been recogni---you get the picture. I've distinguished myself from both my minority pool (Latino, and i'm from Texas so its not as easy as it sounds) and my high school prep. So awesome, everyone do their thing and do it well...congratulations to your daughters, Susan.

By Tiatemeh (Tiatemeh) on Sunday, May 04, 2003 - 02:49 pm: Edit

I have about 7-12 hours of homework per night. I only have 3 APs: AP Lang, AP World, and AP Chem, but I also have honors Chinese 3, honors Pre-Calc, and my one easy class honors Physics. I guess my big homework classes are AP World (reading the book because our teacher doesn't teach anything), and Chinese 3 (because I'm one of the two non-asian students in my class- several students are fluent). However, Pre-calc also takes a while (a lot of busy work) as does Lang whenever we have an essay and Chem when we have a lab. I tend to start homework no later than 4, and finnish from 11 to morning. My extracurriculars are minimal: I'm president of a weekly Ultimate Frisbee club, and a dedicated painter at our mural club (which meets once a week, unless there is a school play when we meet daily and for longer). On fridays I also have been going to a painting class since i was 5... The homework load once seemed crazy to me, because how little sleep i get (at least one day a week, i sleep less than 2 hours, and the other days, not usually more than 4-5) On the few days i only have 7 hours of homework, i tend to spend the extra time sleeping. And I sometimes sleep from when i get home until 4 when i start hw. Anyways, although the time i put into the work seems to be excessive, i've found that most of my friends spend the same amount of time on work. Most of the time, even at 3 am, if you go on aim, you can easily find someone up doing homework to answer a question. I don't think our teachers realize or care that we have other classes.

By Nyu2010 (Nyu2010) on Monday, May 05, 2003 - 10:12 pm: Edit

Soozievt, you're talking in circles AGAIN.

By Heythere (Heythere) on Monday, May 05, 2003 - 10:29 pm: Edit

All I have to say is:


You people are screwed up.

Tiatemeh--I feel so sorry for you if you're nto exaggerating. Now 7 hours of homework---that's insanity. Insanity!!!

High school sucks...lol

By Moreau1985 (Moreau1985) on Monday, May 05, 2003 - 10:34 pm: Edit

Yeah, i don't do homework, it tends to just make my life shittier. I prefer, enjoying television and doing more relaxing sorts with my time. I slip by school with a 3.5 GPA and am going to only be in pre-calc as a senior. I scored a 1250 on my SAT's and i really only need to go to a respectable university, cause all I care about is graduate school (as do business's). That way, I can enjoy my high school days, not strain myself, get 8 hours a sleep a night and live my life the fullest. I don't believe by doing 7-8 hrs of homework a night, you can auctually have a life, although you'll go to Yale...and make 50,000 dollars more a year than me, depending on if you're a business major or not...I plan on studying day and night for the GMAT, when i'm older but thats it. No studying from me, all sleeping. ;) cheers.

By Nyu2010 (Nyu2010) on Tuesday, May 06, 2003 - 03:45 pm: Edit

Soozie, how do you get to be All-states in an instrument? I've been playing piano for eight years and I want to have something to show for it.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Tuesday, May 06, 2003 - 11:46 pm: Edit

Hi Nyu2010.....My girls do play piano...take private lessons and also play piano in the school jazz band. They are not in All States for piano. For piano though, they do participate in what is called National Piano Auditions and they are coming up.

All States, at least here anyway.....is for band, orchestra, jazz band, and choral. A student who wants to try to get into All States must attend the All State auditions which gives everyone a specific piece to learn ahead of time. My older daughter had to learn a specific clarinet piece and my younger one had to learn a specific classical song to sing. They had to audition before judges by appointment on a certain day when kids came from all over. There was some other criteria....scales, sight reading, and so forth. They were judged on various stuff. All States takes a certain number of high school students for band, for orchestra, for jazz, and for choral. So, after all the personal scores from auditioning are recorded, they create a cut off score that takes the number of seats for each particular instrument and same with each voice category (tenor, soprano, alto, base, etc).

Students come from all over the state. Auditions were back in January. The actual event or music festival, however, is this week. All students who made it have been given the pieces to learn for the festival concert ahead of time. Then they spend 2 1/2 days rehearsing with all the kids from all over that made it into All States. The long weekend ends with a concert. Kids are housed at host families in whichever city the All State Music Festival is held that particular year. Also, the festival starts out with every school sending its entire marching band to the kick off parade. Many schools in our state do NOT have a marching band....many schools are on the small side and few have football teams, etc. But for that one night, everyone's concert band becomes a marching band. Tomorrow night is the parade and my kids have had to rehearse becoming a marching band in just one week. My daughter who is the singer in All States, has learned to be a flag routine girl. But after the parade, just the kids who made All States stay for a few days for the festival. It is an honor or achievement to make it into All States. This is the second year for my junior and the first year for my freshman (it is just for high school age though). The concert is usually superb as it is the best musicians and singers in the state. Usually there is a piece commissioned for each group as well. Some scholarships are given out to certain kids too.

We also have regional music festivals here. The same exact thing I described above is done (except the parade thing) where the kids audition a couple months ahead of time, are selected, and so forth, then go to a festival for a few days to rehearse and culminates with a concert. This is not quite as hard to make as States but still difficult. My kids have gotten into this each year and it is a fun event. Of course you have to miss school to go to it. Actually my younger daughter was suprprisingly picked to sing the solo at both the regional music festival and the regional jazz festival. I always think seniority is the game in schools but it was purely by auditioning. Also for both regionals and All States, they bring in guest conductors and so forth from out of state, so it is a neat event and definitely a good honor to have for a music student. Unfortunately, while it is a good honor for their music studies, it is wreaking havoc missing school and ECs for a few days and while some coahes understand,some don't and our dance studio really is giving my kids a hard time as it is getting close to our annual dance performance. While it is understandable they need to be at these things, nobody who makes All States would ever miss doing it and it is truly for a subject they take in school (band and chorus).

Does your state not have this for instrumental music or choral? We live in Vermont. We even have a similar event my kids auditioned for, called New Englands.....taking the best from this region of the country. However, these events do not have piano player students in them. Except, the jazz band MIGHT but that would just be ONE person. My kids have always played a second instrument (besides piano) so they could participate in regular band as well. Luckily they do get to play piano in jazz band.

Susan

By Yourlocalmayor (Yourlocalmayor) on Wednesday, May 07, 2003 - 12:20 pm: Edit

titameh, i feel your pain, but guess what? you're working too long...learn to study quicker and more effectively--sleep helps, i used to play basketball and took some hard classes here and there and managed to pull roughly 5-6 hours of sleep a night. made A's and B's. take care.

By Newsreporter (Newsreporter) on Friday, October 24, 2003 - 02:40 pm: Edit

Hi! I'm new to this website, but I think it will provide me with a major amount of information. I was actually researching the topic of my newspaper's editorial (the average amount of homework for a high school student) when I stumbled onto this site. I definitely think it will help. Also, I thought it might be interesting to post my stats and maybe try out the other topics of discussion, especially since I will be off to college next year.

On A-B schedule (weekdays):
Homework per night: about 4.5-6 hrs for first semester (5 APs, 2 Honors, 2 regular, 2 dual credit); second semester is a mystery
EC: about 2-3.5 hours per day; except for Monday which is about 6-7 hrs.
Total per week: HW- 21-30 hrs; EC- 30-41 hrs.

Weekends: HW- 5-8 hrs. ; EC- 15-25 hrs.
Current GPA: 4.998 on UGS

Most of my EC hours are spent doing service hours with NHS, Serteen, SNHS; tutoring; doing plays; practicing for academic team; playing video games; reading a book; or going sailing with the Sailing Club.