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hello everyone

Lately, at my school, we're talking about course selections...IB/AP and all that stuff....i'm just confused tho. In the first place, the counselors never talk about stuff i "want" to know. I'm in 10th grade, and in our junior and senior years, we can either do the IB Dip/AP courses/ or a bit of both. Previously, i thought it would be better for me to do the IB Dip. but i'm not sure anymore, 'cos i've been hearing that the workload practically kills you and leaves you with no "other" life whatsoever. Is that really true? Btw, MOST IMPORTANTLY THO, i'm an international student and I'm DYING (yep) to know if colleges in the US would offer better scholarship money and admissions into top-rated universities (preferably USC, is what i'm shootin' at), if we do the IB Diploma rather than a mixture of a few AP and IB courses.

MY FINAL QUESTION: Does doing a few IB (HL) courses and a few AP courses look as good to an admissions officer as does the whole IB Diploma course?"
Someone please answer...i'd be EXTREMELY grateful. Thank you

By lljkl on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 01:00 am: Edit

Just get the IB diploma, then do the AP exams as well. You can't do the IB exams without the courses, but the AP exams can be done without the courses (talk to the guidence councellor about it). It might cost you a bit more though.

But wouldn't.

IB diploma + 7 AP exams look better than just an IB diploma or just 7 AP exams? This just makes sure you'll be accepted everywhere in Canada and USA. In USA there are some places that place the AP program ahead of IB (not because it's not as good, but becuase it isn't as widespread as AP is), but in Canada almost all unis place IB over AP (becuase IB is supposedly harder than AP, especially considering the fact that the Canadian system is already similar to the AP program).

IB has international recognition
AP has american recognition (being american and all)

By Abracadabra (Abracadabra) on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 05:51 am: Edit

Thanx for replying "lljkl". I'm interested in US colleges though. It's like i either do the IB Dip or a mixture of IB and AP. Is it worth it and regarded as superior to take the IB Dip than AP & IB? Seriously, i'm extremely confused about what to do. I mean, i would do the IB Dip, but i'm hearing people say that if i'm planning to go to the US, then the Diploma isn't required/ doing AP is completely fine. I wanna know about "scholarship money" too.

By Person on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 02:26 pm: Edit

The IB Diploma will give you an edge in the admissions process but you have to do hours worth of hard stressful homework a night. You have to make a compromise...

By ib kid on Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 07:06 pm: Edit

hey abracadabra!
i am a junior in the IB diploma programm.I am currently searching colleges in the US and am amazed to find out how many recognize the IB AND offer credit for courses you take at college.
yes-the IB is demanding, but all it takes is HARD WORK which will only make you better prepared for college.so i would say -GO AHEAD AND DO IB!
where are you from anyways??

By Abracadabra (Abracadabra) on Sunday, February 23, 2003 - 12:02 am: Edit

Yep! After changing my mind about a gazillion times for the past few days, I've eventually decided to go ahead with the IB diploma! I live in thailand....how about you?
Another thing.....I don't know whether to take IB Psychology HL and Biology SL or Biology HL and pych SL.... well, i just wanna KNOW what we have to do in Psychology HL....anyone out there? HELP!!!

By Stephanie on Sunday, February 23, 2003 - 12:44 am: Edit

hey, im in IB and the workload is not that bad, at least for me, i know alot of my friends are dying over all the work, but i know just as many w/no problem, like me

By Abracadabra (Abracadabra) on Monday, February 24, 2003 - 04:41 am: Edit

wow! thanx a LOT for those uplifting words, Stephanie. I REALLY need to hear stuff like that. D'you have a secret to dealing with the IB workload? I mean, to be able to handle it, what are you basically supposed to do?

By Ibkid (Ibkid) on Friday, February 28, 2003 - 06:14 pm: Edit

abracadabra-
the secret to handling workload is excellent time management skills and motivation. always give ur BEST to everything you do, and DO NOT PROCRASTINATE!!!
if you have gaps in ur school schedule, use them for CAS or doing homework...simply do not WASTE a minute! i know it might sound hard but if you make it a habit, good time managment will be a piece of cake for u!!
GOOD LUCK!!

By Abracadabra (Abracadabra) on Saturday, March 01, 2003 - 08:12 am: Edit

Y'know....i could be the biggest procrastinator in the world at times.... well, it's just that i tend to leave things up to the second to the last minute, but whatever it is, i always hand my work in time....i mean, i could waste 6 hours a day doing NOTHING related to learning, and spend only an hour or two doing that and get better grades than others.....sometimes this amazes me, but my inability to concentrate on schoolwork for hours in a row frustrates me!

By Ibkid (Ibkid) on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 03:59 am: Edit

yeah so am i!!!

By Louisa (Louisa) on Tuesday, March 11, 2003 - 12:35 pm: Edit

if you want a life, don't take the full IB~
I hear that IB is WAY WAY WAY harder than AP's... and this is according to my friends who have taken both... teachers I know who have taught both AP and IB also told me that IB is much harder.... but the thing is, the admissions officer think the AP and IB to be at similar levels.... so... I say that if you're going to the states, just take few APs then kill yourself with IB's... IB is KILLER.... the extended essay, the 150 hours of CAS world lit papers, history psychology assessments............ all my friends in the full IB get three hours of sleep per night.. (the ones who get top marks..)

By Tuannguyen (Tuannguyen) on Wednesday, March 12, 2003 - 12:31 am: Edit

Louisa, have you ever wondered why American universities don't recognize that IB is harder?

I've always wondered why they see them as equal, when AP is obvious a lot easier. At a school near me, you only need a 75% average to get into AP, while you need an 80% average in a gifted pre-IB program to get in. Even then you need a whole bunch of recommendations from your teacher on how you're a team player and speak up alot and such.

I think it could be that AP is more widely spread across America, and that AP is more american. But i'm not too sure.

By Abracadabra (Abracadabra) on Wednesday, March 12, 2003 - 07:01 am: Edit

I agree with you Louisa...but i'm beginning to wonder how "HARD" hard really is! I certainly do want a life, but i'm an international student, and it seems that the IB Diploma would give me an edge at admissions in good universities (PLUS scholarship)....however, if this isn't true....then PLEASE tell me, i will willingly change, cos i'm crazy! i'm doing the full IB program.... the 150 hours are easy tho, i mean....if u put some effort into it, u can surpass that amount easily!
but if they are dumb enough to see IB and AP at the same level, then i really don't know what to say, because that must change in the next couple of years....it gives them enough time to evaluate the 2 courses, right?

By Louisa (Louisa) on Wednesday, March 12, 2003 - 09:45 am: Edit

Abracadabra- I'm an international student too and I'm very familiar with this IB/AP issue.. It isn't true that it would give you an edge at admissions... (well, to a very small extent..) last year my friend got into yale without an IB diploma... another friend without full IB (certificate candidate) into U.Penn and Brown... Harvard may ask why the student did not take the full IB though (during interview), but that's harvard... I've known plenty of my friends who are certificate candidates who got accepted to ivy league schools.. half my grade is in the full IB, though I'm not. Instead I take five IB classes..... and that has been the best decision I've ever made in my life... I still get TONS of work, but I know that it is nothing compared to my peers who have had been getting two hours of sleep the past month getting extended essay, final tok paper, etc etc.. (oh yes the CAS logs ARE tedious.... I hear..)plus, I have the freedom to choose which classes to take highers and standard levels in... You get your final IB results in July AFTER you've decided which colleges you are attending anyway.. I don't think that that enhances your chances of getting better scholarship... But you certainly do need several AP or IB classes, in the core classes... yeah I know it's not fair they don't recognize IB to be much more challenging than the AP...

By Abracadabra (Abracadabra) on Thursday, March 13, 2003 - 05:02 am: Edit

Louisa, if what you said is completely true then i seriously need to make a better decision. But then, I also heard that people with IB diplomas are readily accepted into colleges.....well, i'm confused again....perhaps i should change, but i really don't know. I can easily see that if i don't do the dip, then i'll have so much more freedom. Could you please tell me more about the type of student your friend who got into Yale was?
btw, i'm not focusing on getting into an Ivy League college tho...
anyway, thanx for the info!!

By Tsdad (Tsdad) on Thursday, March 13, 2003 - 09:23 am: Edit

Note that at Florida State University (and in all the Florida public universities?), IB diploma holders are automatically granted 30 credits and given sophomore status.

By Louisa (Louisa) on Thursday, March 13, 2003 - 12:46 pm: Edit

yeah I'm telling you the complete truth.. my friend was a well-rounded student.. and since she wasn't in the full IB she had a bit more time to engage herself into activities which she enjoyed, which at the same time augmented her chances of acceptance to numerous colleges.. this is the same for me too.. I was able to focus on varsity sports and music a lot.. I don't think that I would have been able to do all that if I was in the full program.. and my friend who got into Yale had an SAT of 1400 but got A's in the IB courses that she chose to take because she really wanted to... and she was in MUN and had community service.. however, this is my personal view.. and for ME personally it was a good choice to not to take the full IB.. but I guess it depends on the individual.. if you really want to do it for yourself, to feel that you've accomplished something as rigorous as can be, it may be a really good choice.. just depends..

By Tuannguyen (Tuannguyen) on Saturday, March 15, 2003 - 03:04 am: Edit

http://mathforum.org/epigone/math-teach/zherdquilprang/x7qeiglfkhiq@legacy

I think this person explains the difference between IB and AP pretty well.

I agree that IB is a GREAT experience.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A43008-2001Aug7?language=printer

Some of the issues concerning IB you might want to look into.

---

Having read the article, i would say, take as many IB HL courses as possible, and anything SL don't take; take AP instead (most of the time easier, but its credits are better accepted). That should be a good balance.

The IB diploma doesn't matter too much, it only shows that you can handle a level of study many students can't (and achieve A's while at it or risk being kicked out of IB).

If you can show that you can take on the same level of rigor, then you're fine. Don't worry too much about it. If you're planning on taking AP Italian instead of IB Italian, it would probably look the same in the eyes of an admission officer anyways.

The IB diploma was designed to challenge EVERYONE. Meaning those who are good in science will have to learn a new language, and those who are good at languages will be challenged with college level math, those who are lazy have to volunteer (in the creative, service and physical fields; yes you need a type of all of them, you can't just be a sports freak, you need to service the poor and be involved with arts also; something along those lines) or not take the diploma. If you can show that you are well rounded, then you wouldn't need the diploma. The diploma is only something to hang on a wall.

By Abracadabra (Abracadabra) on Saturday, March 15, 2003 - 07:53 am: Edit

You guys have been of so much help to me! Thank you so much
I don't know about being able to show how well rounded i am, because if i look into the near future, i'm not into that many extracurricular activities, altho i do pursue my own hobbies. i don't find the need to join an organisation or club just for the sake of putting it on the transcript, altho i'm an active member of Keys Club...heh. A member of a few sports teams too! other clubs include Forensics and Amnesty...
I know i'm pretty well rounded...not a nerd or anything.....my average at the moment is 3.4, and i'm in 10th grade. My H.S is hard....no one has a 4.0, so that explains it.
Plus, my ONLY problem is Math....because if i 'm doing the IB Dip., i can take Math studies and i'll be fine, but if i don't do the diploma.....then my Math subjects wouldn't look great, because IB MATH studies SL would probably look bad without the diploma...right?
Plus, how much weight do AP courses add to the GPA?
Sorry! I'm just confused, and i think this message board is best for clearing my doubts!!!
BTW, by 2005, don't ya guys think the IB courses would eventually be given better recognition in the US?

By Louisa (Louisa) on Saturday, March 15, 2003 - 09:10 am: Edit

Hey Abracadabra- you live in thailand?
I used to live there too... Do you go to NIST? ISB? Ruamrudee(sp?) you were questioning about IB psych and IB biology... I hear IB psychology is KILLER.. major killer, but everybody seems to agree that it is the most interesting course! If you are willing to work your butt off, why not take it? everybody seems to like it~ on the other hand.. IB bio... that really depends on the person.. some people love it, but for me.. NOOOOO.. I dropped out end of junior year... hehe.. I could have stayed, but I just wasn't interested.. too much to memorize... oh, but there's a lot of biology involved in psychology.. the things you learn in higher level biology overlaps with the things you learn in IB psych.. for example, Mitosis and Meiosis... hehe. well, oh and why not just take IB Math studies without the diploma? I take IB Math methods without IB diploma and it looks good.. ciao~

By Ibkid (Ibkid) on Saturday, March 15, 2003 - 06:17 pm: Edit

abracadabra,
i see some people here are scaring u with stories about the IB program....YES it IS DEMANDING but if u are basically a good student, honestly it's NO BIG DEAL. i am an ib student and i am SPEAKING out of EXPERIENCE! frankly speaking i am not the best student in my class but i am pretty average and i know i can even top the class if i TRY HARDER. abracadabra- if u work slowly,carefully and give ur best shot at ur work then there is nothing to worry about!!!
and its not always about HOW HARD a class is...it's about how MOTIVATED and interested u are in that subject ..thats why u should choose ur courses ACCORDING to ur INTERESTS!
of course ull only get 3 hours of sleep if u procrastinate,but u know what?-one of my friends is a TOP student and i know she manages to get 7-8 hours of sleep per night.thats because she has good time management skills.if ur time management skills suck(like mine), ib will only teach how to improve them and thus u will be better prepared for university.many american colleges DO recognize the ib AND offer credit for the courses u take. i know some peoplewho even got ONE WHOLE YEARS credit in an american college(i.e->they graduated in 3 years instead of 4!)but thats only if ur academically fit,so therefore colleges DO look at ur ib diploma to see if u are capable of skipping a year of college.
one more thing- i lived in india,where school is really really hard and students have to study their BRAINS out.beleive me-ib workoad is NOTHING in the 11th grade compared to what i went through in the 6th,7th and 8th grade in india!
i am really not sure how much ur gonna beleive me but i think some people here are really exagerating about HARD ib is!
check out the ib webpage for college recognition in the USA and other countries-www.ibo.org,then go to shortcuts-ull see college recognition...

P.S i pretty much suck at math. my school does not even OFFER math studies ,so i had to take math methods...i think i am kinda understanding it

By Ibkid (Ibkid) on Saturday, March 15, 2003 - 06:21 pm: Edit

sloooooowwlllyyy but surely

By Tuannguyen (Tuannguyen) on Sunday, March 16, 2003 - 03:45 am: Edit

Ibkid, i don't believe that ib workload is nothing compared to what you went through in India in the 6th to 8th grade. I would agree if you said that the PRESSURE for high standard in India is WAY higher in India then it is in America though. I know that when you're young, things do seem harder, but the actual workload, i highly doubt, is filled with more difficult material or in abundance when compared to IB.

EVERY YEAR, when things are supposed to get harder, for me, it gets easier. I found addition hard in grade 2! I find calculus easy! I found the learning of vocab hard, but i found the writing of essays easy!

So in the sense of being pushed (having teachers who think having one question wrong is BAD), i know what you mean. Teachers in Vietnam make you do EVERYTHING on your own, and they expect you to be smart at the things you do on your own too. They post every single mark you have for everyone to see, so your next door neighbor could be saying how dumb you are and dissing your entire family for raising such a dumb kid. You grab a textbook, and read. Asia, on average, is already 1.5 years ahead of America in education. Even in poor countries like Vietnam!

Whey, and why did you use the word "SOME" people are trying to scare him? It should be one. I never said that IB was EXTREMELY hard, i only said it was WAY harder than AP, which is NOT a lie at all.

And that remark on how you would be tops if you studied more. EVERYONE i know says that, it depends on YOU, if you have the will or not. Will power determines it all, the power to take action.

And where I live, the IB program is harder than usual, because you have to cover the IB curriculum while covering the provincial/normal curriculum which is way different then IB. So it's a lot more work, like cramming two classes into one. So in my case it is harder, but in USA where there is no national goal, it is a lot easier.

By Lisamarie (Lisamarie) on Monday, March 17, 2003 - 10:16 am: Edit

I am an eighth grader and have just been accepted into an full IB high and a great private (many AP's) high... and can stay at my auditioned based Arts school. It is a dilemna.. and I know that if I do not have all courses available to me at my Arts school (public)...the school system will send me during the day to take college level courses at nearby state universities... and repay me for the costs of classes.

I need to decide if taking college courses will be viewed well(with many oustide interests and volunteer hours available with unique scientific opportunities)...vs. strong AP's and sports at a highly regarded Catholic school...verses IB

By Lisamarie (Lisamarie) on Monday, March 17, 2003 - 10:24 am: Edit

I am an eighth grader and have just been accepted into: 1) a full IB high and 2) a great private (many AP's) high... 3) and can stay at my auditioned based Arts school. It is a dilemna.. and I know that if I do not have all courses available to me at my Arts school (public)...the school system will send me during the day to take college level courses at nearby state universities... and repay me for the costs of classes. It is a great program with many opportunities for internships and special studies...rather unique and self-directed. I have a 4.0 GPA and am first in my class ranking (the school includes middle and high schools). I need to keep aware of volunteer hours in the sciences... as I hope to major in biology at an elite school like Duke or Harvard or Stanford.

I need to decide if taking university courses on a college campus will be viewed well(with many outside interests and volunteer hours available with unique scientific opportunities)...vs. strong AP's and sports at a highly regarded Catholic school...verses IB with some chances for musicals. Does it seem that taking self-initiative would be better than conforming to a cookie cutter set of classes at an IB???

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Monday, March 17, 2003 - 11:41 am: Edit

Lisamarie: You need to decide what you want out of your h.s. experience in terms of what academics and ECs you want to pursue out of your own interests, not to look good to colleges.

One can get into excellent colleges from IB programs, private h.schools, and auditioned-based arts schools. As long as you are taking a rigorous college prep curriculum (which you should be able to do at any of those options), you would have a chance of getting into the top colleges.

You do not have to take the toughest curriculum in town to get into a top college. If, for instance, the IB program would not allow you to pursue your arts interests in depth, it would be fine if you went to the arts school as long as you pursued a rigorous college prep curriculum there.

Pursuing your arts interests through the arts school, being in musicals, doing summer arts programs, etc. would give you a demonstrated defining passion, which is something the elite colleges look for.

If your defining passion were, however, multicultural afffairs, not musical theater, then IB would allow you more opportunities to pursue it.

Thus, the choice of program really rests on what your interests are.

It also could be a good idea to e-mail or call the admissions office of Duke, Harvard, Stanford, and ask for their feedback.

By Lisamarie (Lisamarie) on Tuesday, March 18, 2003 - 08:42 am: Edit

Thanks Northstarm
I will call for feedback from top schools.... and I also believe that my love of musical theater will be a plus.... for a science major...it is truly me... and I hope that it shows some balance with great grades and lots of interests.

I guess that I could say that I want to pursue life long musical theater and voice...but desire a biology area for career and journey thru research.

I am 13, and want to keep doors open for good choices for school.

By Freshman911 (Freshman911) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 08:28 pm: Edit

Hey. I am a freshman and i was wondering what classes i should take if i want to go to med school? Also is there any EC. activities that i should take, that would help me a lot.

Also I go to a Magnet High School and we only have 3 Ap classes, do u think i should change schools? Ans will the Magnet High School be a plus for my college applications?

By Bluesky (Bluesky) on Saturday, April 12, 2003 - 03:01 am: Edit

Hey, about the workload differences in different countires(like India vs US), there ARE major differences.
I studied my K-5 years in Taiwan, and my sister had K-7. and it is A LOT of work. Maybe not a lot, but somehow, the material we learn in classes were much more advanced than US. I came to US with the memory of all these hardwork from Taiwan, when i came to the US in my 5.5 year, in my 5-8 grade in US, no one could match my math skill because the concepts were already covered in Taiwan's 2-6 grade classes.
I've been gathering much info about the difficulties between US vs Taiwan. It seems to be that K-12 in Taiwan is freakin HARD but EASY College+Grad School. In US, EASY K-8 and HARD 9-College+Grad School. Moreover, after i've asked a number of people, most agree that K-12 in ASIA is harder than US... But US have better colleges, so thats where all the international students came from. Just a conclusion and interesting fact i found out.

By Bluesky (Bluesky) on Saturday, April 12, 2003 - 03:08 am: Edit

I think that was kind of off topic huh..? Sorry sorry.

Well, I'm currently a freshman at Diamond Bar High School. IB is a new program in our school, we are the 2nd year generation of IB. Students from our neighbor high school had the IB program for a while now. and they would tell me how hard it was and only 15 people graduated last year... i was like, whoa...

But, but, I'm confident that IB DOES provide more indeph knowledge and more challenge. More and more people are telling me that do IB if you really want to learn, and you do it not for college recongnition, but for your own inner-self. You will be a better prepared student to go off to college, and will be able to success easier.

Moreover, this is just my own problem i would like to bring up. I have some major problem with time management, i procrastinate too much. sometimes the schoolwork just bores me soo bad! I tend to get distracted real easily, what are some ways to prevent me from wondering around from things to things and not focusin on my schoolwork? Thank you.

By Bachstrad (Bachstrad) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 02:39 pm: Edit

Hi, I'm a pre-IB student in Burnaby South Secondary,BC, Canada. Currently, our IB diploma program has been cancelled by the school board.

My dilemma is that I must either move to another IB school or stay for the AP program that is to be offered next year.

Te thing is, I am aiming for Harvard; Yale; Stanford; and Princeton.

Is IB more advantageous than AP for the admission, or vice versa?

I desperately have to make the decision quickly, so please help me!

Thank you a million comrades!

By Tuannguyen (Tuannguyen) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 08:34 pm: Edit

Bachstrad, if you take enough APs it'll probably be viewed at as the same as an IB diploma. So just take TONS of APs, and you wouldn't have to leave your school at all.

By Billy14_007 (Billy14_007) on Monday, April 21, 2003 - 12:32 pm: Edit

Hi. Does pre IB students share the same classes with non IB students?.

By Billy14_007 (Billy14_007) on Monday, April 21, 2003 - 01:30 pm: Edit

I am in the eighth grade and got accepted into the IB program. Are IB students isolated from non IB students.If so, should I join AP.

By Apguy (Apguy) on Monday, April 21, 2003 - 07:55 pm: Edit

Your school might put the AP kids and IB kids together, but you won't be with kids in the regular level classes. At my school if there are like 12 kids in IB English or something, they will join the IB and AP kids together.

By Billy14_007 (Billy14_007) on Friday, April 25, 2003 - 10:39 am: Edit

OHHH. Thanx Apquy

By Ivey17 (Ivey17) on Saturday, April 26, 2003 - 03:56 pm: Edit

Hey ppl, i am an IB 1 student in the American International school In Abu dhabi.. i was wonderin, if im goin to the states do i really need to take IB? cuz im doin chemical engineering for college and im currently doin math HL and physics HL (ya im CRAZY) but im thinkin of droppin ib or just takin a certificate, so wat should i do?!

By Rchicky148 (Rchicky148) on Tuesday, September 02, 2003 - 10:50 pm: Edit

Hey! I am an IB sr at one of the schools in that article mentioned by Tuannguyen. Basically colleges DO realize that IB is an advanced program and ALOT more work than AP. At an interview at Amherst College, I was told by the Dean of Admissions that he and Amherst professors find the IB program to be quite impressive and that students who come to Amherst from IB are very well prepared. I know students at various high schools in my county, including my school, taking all AP classes, but not IB. Their workload is nothing compared to IB. I guess it all depends on your IB program, some are more rigorous/ well known than others. Either way, in my opinion, if part of you likes to challenge yourself, I think you should go full IB. It will help you to stand out in the myriad of applications. Plus, although we all complain about the work and each year gets worse (this year is so insane its crazy...i have english essays, chem quiz, history seminar all due tomorrow), I think I have been challenged and learned alot in IB and I honestly don't regret it. Be warned though you will spend your fair share of nights up till 2-4 am especially if you play sports or do drama. But if you do not procrastinate, you will really be fine and I procrastinate, but I survive. Good luck!