Click here to go to the NEW College Discussion Forum

Last year in my AP English Language class we discussed racism after reading The Adventures of Huckelberry Finn; some of the more interested students such as myself also read Nigger: The Strange Career of a Troublesome Word, Harvard law professor Randall Kennedy's lively consideration of what he calls the "paradigmatic" racial slur. I found our discussions to be particularly interesting for their diversity of opinion; in fact, most consider my home town a very racist city (the local news recently aired a documentary called The Tale of Two Cities which reflected the growth and development of the northern and southern parts of the city). This year's AP Eng. students are just beginning to discuss these issues, and I'd like to see what other people think. I'd also like to preface this whole discussion with an encouragement that those who post be considerate of this sensitive subject. For the sake of discussion, I will state that I am white, and I'm probably the furthest thing from racist you could ever know.

Some of the more undeveloped claims (which I'd like to see discussed) assert that "black people" (the search for a euphemism in public forums seems to have proven quite trivial) are the "real racists." People who believe such cite semantics and pop-culture. For example, black people have a Black Entertainment Channel, but a White Entertainment Channel would never make. Another common supporting claim is that black politicians appeal to the betterment of the black community, while the context change when shifted to white people would be considered racist.

Any comments? Ideas? Thoughts on the issue in general?

The idea here is to intelligently and respectfully discuss racism, its origins, its extent, and its repercussions.

Thanks bunches!

By Haruko (Haruko) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 01:44 am: Edit

Just some thoughts while reading this..

People who believe such cite semantics and pop-culture. For example, black people have a Black Entertainment Channel, but a White Entertainment Channel would never make.
- Did you ever notice the lack of minorities on popular shows? Popular shows like Friends and Will & Grace supposedly located in NYC all have Caucasian people. If white people dominate nearly every channel I think it's alright if people of African descent can have one dedicated to them. I have also seen a Korean channel, a Filipino channel, and a Chinese channel.

Another common supporting claim is that black politicians appeal to the betterment of the black community, while the context change when shifted to white people would be considered racist.
- This isn't limited to the black community. A quote from an LJ friend, "These three facts lead me to believe Middle America will elect our next president based not on policies, promises or rhetoric; they will vote for the better-looking guy, or the one with the less weird last name.
All the Presidents we’ve ever had had stately or neutral-sounding last names. Carter. Clinton. Reagan. Kennedy is about as ethnic as it ever got. There’s never been and never will be a President Klowicki, Stuttgarten, Yamamoto or Hershberger. I knew Dukakis would never get elected to the oval office. Ditto for Gephardt and Lieberman. Giuliani, Pataki, not a chance. Schwarzeneger...maybe, but that’s a special case. I mean the man has destroyed cyborgs for chrissakes." I notice that in any certain minority community sometimes they might feel safer with something more familiar. Lots of these families have recently just come from their country and it's nice to have someone who speaks their language, ect. This doesn't apply to every community, but I've noticed it living in southern California.

By Crimsonrider (Crimsonrider) on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 09:56 pm: Edit

The "Black Racism" you cite is a reaction to racism from whites in the past. There is a double standard in our society; racial groups generally have the 'right' to use derogatory terms to describe themselves. A justification for this is that when someone uses a racist term to describe their own group, they cannot possibly be racist against themselves, so the term does not have the same hateful meaning as it would coming from someone of a different group.

By Meandthemoon (Meandthemoon) on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 09:00 pm: Edit

But reverse racism isn't any better...it perpetuates minority stereotypes.

For instance...AFFIRMATIVE ACTION. Supporters argue that minorities don't have an equal footing, so the line needs to be adjusted to make it "more equal". This is of course, assuming that everyone who's not white must be horribly disadvantaged in every way. I'm half black half asian...I live in a very nice suburban home and go to one of the best high schools in the county. I don't need Affirmative Action to get into a good school.

However, many people assume that because of my race, I must only be able to get into programs because of Affirmative Action. Last year, I applied for admission to an Everglades Restoration magnet program that was very selective- accepting 1 out of 9 students. I managed to get in. My neighbor actually said, "She only got in because she's black." Nevermind my 4.0 GPA or my perfect 99%s on the FCAT. It MUST be because I'm black.

I agree that minorities have had a tough time of it in this country. But other races have managed to prevail..When the Chinese came to this country, they were treated as no better than slaves..they too were oppressed for a long time.
But today, the Chinese and other Asians make up a disproportionately large amount of the population at Ivy League universities..I read somewhere that they even make more on average than white families. Affirmative Action works AGAINST them..yet they are minorities as well.

Doesn't Affirmative Action perpetuate the stereotypes that minorities can't do as well as whites or Asians, so they need lower standards? I personally find that insulting.

And is discrimination really the reason why Affirmative Action is deemed necessary? Why is it that Asians do so well in society, since minorities are supposed to adhere to lower standards? I think a lot of the problem isn't necessarily a lack of money..it's a lack of caring. In my school, I often get made fun of by other black kids because I'm in all honors and AP classes..I'm trying to "act white". Why is being successful and being challenged seen as a "white" thing? I'm sure Affirmative Action isn't really helping with this attitude.

The problem is that the black community has an inner attitude of self hatred. Plain and simple. A lot of it is that blacks have been historically oppressed...Even today, where racism isn't as in your face, its still very apparent. The black community is stuck in a strange love-hate relationship- we want to look and act more white, but at the same time, we don't. It makes itself known in a lot of subtle ways-black women relaxing their hair, dying their hair blonde, bleaching their skin and getting blue contacts. Political correctness. Not wanting to do well in school because that's a privilege reserved for "whites" only.

My mom worked her way through college and medical school while caring for me. When she came to America (she's Jamaican-Chinese) she was also astounded by the fact that her being in med school was seen as insulting..even today, American born blacks seem to stay away from her. But in Jamaica, blacks were kept as slaves..in fact, my great-grandmother was a Maroon. So why aren't the same defeating attitudes as prevalent in Jamaica?

I think we need some proactive people out trying to help the black community. Affirmative Action doesn't seem to be helping much.

(sorry if this is incoherent...I'm thinking about profound sociological issues while under the influence of a No-Doz pill and 3 cups of coffee)

By Crnchycereal (Crnchycereal) on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 09:40 pm: Edit

I'll jump in by arguing against the so-called model minority stereotype. As an Asian-American, I've often been expected to perform well in science and math and pursue a career in medicine, engineering, or law (coincidentally, this is the field in which I'm most interested for now).

But aside from that, the model minority is seen as polite, respectful, and SUCCESSFUL. It gave "white people" (note: I don't mean to say that all white people do this, but some have undoubtedly done so) a gauge against which to compare the rest of the minorities in this country, asking them, "Why can't you be more like them?" Firstly, this stereotype is grossly overexaggerated and just plain false. 50% of Asian-Americans in America live under the poverty line and the formerly revered image of the perfect student is quickly fading; in a number of generations, the average performance of Asian-Americans is expected to be on the level of average white students.

But more disturbing than the fallacy of this stereotype is the role it has played in race relations. It has literally been used as a tool to play minorities off of each other, the most prominent case being the LA riots in which blacks broke into many K-Town shops, looting and pillaging at will. This anger was misdirected towards the Koreans, and was clearly meant for the whites against whom they struggled. However, when K-Town shop owners called the LAPD, they set up barriers around BEVERLY HILLS! Now what does that tell you? They actually ignored the people who needed their help to go protect the rich white people.

By Meandthemoon (Meandthemoon) on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 10:31 pm: Edit

50%. Ouch.

I think part of the reason is that other countries have higher educational standards. In other countries (I can't speak for every other country, but most definitely Jamaica and China qualify) education is seen as a much higher priority and students tend to work much harder on AVERAGE.

And Crnchycereal, I didn't know that. Thanks for expanding my viewpoint.

But I still think that part of what is holding the black community back is an ingrained self-defeating attitude. My father actually told me 2 years ago that I was wasting my time thinking about Harvard because it's a school for white people. It's those sorts of statements that really stick in my mind. I think that we really need a push in the right direction, to make education a huge priority.

So it's not just blacks who are poor and suffering in ghettoes. Why exactly is the poverty rate so high among people of color in general? We can cite the old reasons- "O, the man is keeping us down", etc etc. But why would we go along with "the man keeping us down" unless there were already issues wrong in our society?

It just saddens me that the Black community has been taught to hate themselves so much. Something has to be done about this attitude.
(ehh, but of course my opinions are only half formed..I'm just a naive 13 year old after all)

By Crimsonrider (Crimsonrider) on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 10:35 pm: Edit

Personally, I am against race based affirmative action. As mendthemoon was saying, affirmative action actually works to increase racial tension, or even create some that wasn't originally there.

I have friends who support Affirmative action. They justify it by arguing that blacks are poor due to the legacy of discrimination, and that we need to compensate for it. The serious flaw in their argument is that there are poor minorities, but there are also poor whites. Poverty is not due to racial discrimination, it can be a generational legacy (a person's parents are poor and don't value education, and they pass on those values to their children). This applies to people of all ethnicities, not just minorities. What we could do is give affirmative action based on poverty. If someone is disadvantaged and goes to an inner city school, but works hard and has the ability to make it to a top school, they should have the opportunity to do so, regardless of what they look like.

Some may argue that Race based affirmative action is necessary for blacks and other minorities to fully integrate into society. They argue racism has held them down and now affirmative action must raise minorities back up. I do not agree with this. Now that we have finally ended oppression by government and most employers. While there are still racists in our society, those are isolated cases that are fading from existence. Minorities have the same potential to succeed as whites. People do not need affirmative action to 'assist' them. To grant people special privileges on the basis of minority status is not only wrong, it is degrading. It is almost saying "we feel you can't make it on your own, so we have to help you." As long as society works to end every last isolated case of racism, to completely purge itself of this vice, people who have the ability to succeed will succeed, regardless of color.

By Pantone (Pantone) on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 12:12 pm: Edit

If no longer implementing affirmative action, then no level of priviledge should be given to sons and daughters of alumnae, and big contributors, children of faculty, and atheletic stars. What is the compositional breakdown of these students? These factors of admittance should always be duly noted. There are several ways "lesser" students get in, and perhaps why "better" students do not. If our society truely wants educational institutions to be committed to equality, and every person earn one's place in such an institution, then these factors should also not be admissable or applicable in admittance considerations.