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Has anyone else gotten info on Stanford's EPGY? How selective is it? Is it a worthwhile experience, worth the money, and or a meaningful addition to an application? Does anyone know what kind of PSAT scores you have to get to get info on this e-mailed to you?

By Nyugrad (Nyugrad) on Wednesday, February 04, 2004 - 05:31 pm: Edit

Do a google search on CTY. The criteria is listed on the site. Worthless for application, but the programs are very high quality. Not based on PSAT, it's based on SAT taken before 9th grade.

By Nemom (Nemom) on Wednesday, February 04, 2004 - 05:55 pm: Edit

The primary reason to become involved in the EPGY program is to get access to advanced material that you can't otherwise be taught. It's intended largely for gifted kids who for various reasons cannot take advanced courses in their schools. It probably carries only modest weight in terms of college application, although if you are applying to a private high school, it would be of note. There are actually a number of ways to qualify, depending, in part, on your age. Tuition rates are fairly high.
Surf on Stanford EPGY for all the details.

By M6ixty2wo (M6ixty2wo) on Wednesday, February 04, 2004 - 08:09 pm: Edit

i never applied to EPGY, they sent me a note saying that I was automatically admitted if i ever decided I want to do it. I am currently taking a course on Java right now through EPGY.

By Mathfanatic (Mathfanatic) on Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 01:56 am: Edit

I applied to EPGY as a kid (2nd grade or so) and got in. I took the math classes through algebra, then stopped because the program format was really annoying (a lot of times it's hard to understand what they're teaching you, and they ask a lot of trivial questions followed by ones that you were never told how to do). But after I found out I couldn't take AP Calc through my school (schedule conflict), I took calculus from EPGY. Right now I'm in Calculus B (M041), and I hope to finish Calc C in time to take the BC exam in may.

By Texas137 (Texas137) on Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 10:41 am: Edit

Mathfanatic - Is the format still annoying for calculus? Someone I know who took one of the courses a few years ago said the interface was clunky. You can have the correct answer but have trouble finding the right key strokes to enter the mathematical symbols exactly the way they want it, and it won't let you go on. Is that still the case?

By Mathfanatic (Mathfanatic) on Saturday, May 08, 2004 - 03:26 am: Edit

Mathfanatic - Is the format still annoying for calculus? Someone I know who took one of the courses a few years ago said the interface was clunky. You can have the correct answer but have trouble finding the right key strokes to enter the mathematical symbols exactly the way they want it, and it won't let you go on. Is that still the case?

Ah, sorry, I just saw this right now.

Yes, the EPGY interface is, generally speaking, very clunky. I don't think they've updated their interface over the few years that have passed (I'm sure many people have observed the errors in the lectures, but none of them have been fixed...)

The person you spoke to is probably referring to the derivation system, a Maple-powered program that supposedly helps you work through all the problems while preventing you from doing anything mathematically illegal. It is in the derivation system that I encountered the most problems, because not only does one need to know exactly which buttons to push, but it takes a long time to do each step.

Outside of the derivation system, the answer-inputting system is actually quite good. For example, say you were asked to find the integral of cos^2 x. Using the property that cos(2x) = 2 cos^2 x - 1, you could rewrite it as the integral of (cos(2x) + 1)/2, and then evaluate the integral as 1/4*sin(2x) + x/2. Alternatively, you could use integration by parts (or the reduction formula) to find the answer as 1/2*(cos x)(sin x) + 1/2*x. Obviously, both of these answers are equivalent, but one might worry that EPGY will only expect one of them. Fortunately, this is not the case; I believe the program plugs in random values of x (or whatever variable is used) for the inputted answer and the given answer, and compares them. (Either that, or they have some algebraic simplification device...but that would be complicated!)

However, another thing should be said: I found the actual EPGY lessons (lectures, etc.) fairly unhelpful, even if I didn't consider all of the errors that seemed to plague them. Most of my learning was accomplished by reading the textbook (Calculus, 7th ed., by Anton, Bivens, Davis) and doing some of the problems from each section. Furthermore, I noticed that many of the problems used in the course were from the textbook anyway. So I think I could have learned calculus just as well by just buying the textbook and reading it. Granted, I wouldn't have a transcript that said "EPGY Calculus A/B/C", but I don't think that would matter if I had a good score on the AP Exam.