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I have been bombarded with the question, "which is better?" I know IB is way better but in what way? What makes it so outstanding that everyone wants to be in it?


Oh, and also, how many credits do you get for the classes?

By person on Thursday, December 12, 2002 - 06:45 am: Edit

It has established a worldwide reputation for thorough and rigorous academics.

By was nerd on Friday, December 13, 2002 - 11:35 pm: Edit

credits?

By IBkix on Thursday, December 19, 2002 - 10:57 pm: Edit

diploma!

By was nerd on Friday, December 20, 2002 - 01:19 am: Edit

yeah and so what does that do?

By was nerd on Friday, December 20, 2002 - 01:19 am: Edit

Insures me to a better college?

By A on Friday, December 20, 2002 - 03:19 pm: Edit

God no. The diploma does nothing other than waste your time. IB kids have been complaining about how useless the diploma was since the beginning of time!

By anon on Friday, December 20, 2002 - 03:26 pm: Edit

There's no insurance re college admissions but hardly a waste of time! Never heard any IB kid complain about diploma's uselessness and I know plenty.

By was nerd on Friday, December 20, 2002 - 10:29 pm: Edit

yeah, i don't know if i want to waste precious hours of sleep and ruin my health for this diploma...i'll probably be doing that in college.

By Depressed Catfish on Sunday, December 22, 2002 - 01:19 am: Edit

All IB is is a way for already elitist middle class kids, most of whom their fathers are doctors, to show how smart they are in their school work. It really boosts their egos to know that they have accomplished what apparently no other kid in their high school can "do". Being one such of those middle-class kids (my father is not a doctor) in the Diploma Program, I know first hand. I know what it is first hand to hear how so and so must be terribly "stupid" since they are "full-diploma" or how "mary-sue" is better than the rest of her peers because she has the willingness to waste night after night doing some strung out teacher's busy work in the desperate hopes that top IVY league institutions will smile down upon their pretty little-painted like Sugar Plum princess faces. I know this. The most these super-star IB kids can think about is how they can get into college and what kind of grades that they each make. After everyone of the tests that I have taken in my "Higher Level" English V class, I hear the ubiquitous "So what grade did you make?" Maddening. The kind of people right for IB are the ones who dwell so much on their academic/busyworking lives that they leave no room for anyother intellectual pursuits. The Valedictorian of my Highschool class, an IB Diploma student, has never read anything of any value outside what she has read for our English class. People like her can only see value in what is being spoon-fed to her every single day that they are in IB. The IB propagandists(to those newcomers these are what are called -the IB program coordinators) LOVE to tell incoming or potential Diploma students how the Programme concentrates on higher logical and reasoning skills, or how it goes above and beyond normal high school course work, or how it "teaches you how to think". I am issuing you an urge to shed these falsehoods off like water from a duck's back. I have been there. I have been lied to. I have suffered under the strain of having to complete endless trite assignments just for the sake of a sadistic teacher's insistence that IB students should have to endur more stress than the average student should have to. Hours of sleep will be lost and your health will be ruined...and all in vain. This is not simple whining or complaint...this is an attempt to help those thinking about taking the Diploma out in their decision by telling them the cold-hard non-propagandist/sadist truth.

By was nerd on Sunday, December 22, 2002 - 02:11 am: Edit

whoa...thanks Catfish, that was some good advice. I do think that IB people do not have a life out of school, but i heard that it'll be much easier in college because you've already taken the hard parts of learning things yourself.

By Sorry on Sunday, December 22, 2002 - 04:03 am: Edit

Catfish you sound like you're really anti intellectual which is okay but why do you read and post here when you hold a grudge against learning? If IB teaches you how to think, your message hasn't proven it even though you say you "have been there."

By Depressed Catfish on Saturday, December 28, 2002 - 02:49 am: Edit

Sorry, the grudge that I hold here is not against learning. The grudge that I hold is against learning for the sake of a test, learning for the sake of what looks good on paper, learning for the sake of showing off how smart you are. This is essentially what IB seeks to do. IB does not culture the individual intellect. In my second and last year in the IB Diploma Programme (my "have been there" part), I have realized that IB has truly not taught me anything that I did not already know aside from new facts that I could have picked up easily from simply looking up books in my public library. There is a myth about the IB program that goes "IB teaches you how to think". This is not true. I knew long ago "how to think" and did not need some damn program to basically come along and make it seem that all that I had accomplished before my 11th grade year was done in a stage of non-thinking. I took the Full Diploma Course of study thinking that the Programme would change me in some way. The only way it has changed me is that now I am bitter towards school from the long wasted hours and from the incessantly obnoxious idiots who make up nearly the entire top 10% of my 2003 graduating class. I don't think that I am any smarter than they are, but I do believe that what they have made the IB Programme into is essentially a front for the false-intellectual. A front that masks their true intelligence with good-old fashion hard work. That is what the Programme teaches you. This is their way of teaching you "how to think". IB basically indicates that one thinks by doing physically exhausting and useless bookwork. IB equates such hard work with Intellectual capacity. Not the same thing (See Albert Einstein's early school history).Sorry. Oh, and I post here to get my opinions heard by others. The people that are around me are too self-oriented to care about what I think and perhaps the people on this forum are a little more open minded and receptive to new/old ideas. Thanks.

By anonymous on Saturday, December 28, 2002 - 05:04 pm: Edit

Sorry but anyone with any intellectual appetite or aptitude would have zeroed in on IB's rich material instead of worrying about colleagues' attitudes.

By Yoshi on Sunday, December 29, 2002 - 04:08 am: Edit

Catfish: on the outset I must say that you have not proved anything about the IB by just saying so, nevermind providing any alternatives for the flaws you find so repellant in IB!

I was an IB Diploma Student in Highschool, and to be sure, I was not a nerd or lacked any social skills. True, I was the valodictoian of my class and achieved 44 pts on the Diploma, yet I was also President of the Student Council, so I am pretty sure I was not seen as a big dork!

The IB philosophy does not assume that you are unable to think for yourself and "here, we are going to teach you". Rather, it goes beyond presenting facts, the way most Highschool curricula are shaped, and tries to focus on the bigger picture. In IB, you design your own labs, come up with your own topic of an extended essay, etc. In fact, many highschools throughout the US are trying to adapt the ToK program to their classes...

To be sure, the program is highly demanding, yet it is stimulating as well - for those who are passionate about what they like to do. And if you are willing to put in the extra effort, I assure you that your freshman year in college will be a breeze, and I know that from experience.

Another tangible proof of the worth of the IB Diploma is the amount of credits you can get in college if you score well on the IB. I was warded 24 credits entering freshman year and I know no one else who has done AP getting the same amount of credit. (Unless they went into great lengths taking classes in a local college or 10+ APs which could prove suicidal)... I am not planning to graduate early but it is good to know that I have the solid knowledge and ability to write to compete with college sophmores and juniors even...

Your bitter experience with IB is no proof against it. If you really think IB is flawed, then please point out those fatal flaws and suggest a better existing program??

By Bitz on Wednesday, January 01, 2003 - 03:49 am: Edit

The truth is, success in either an AP or IB program is proof that one can accomplish high level work. Each challenges the student to think critically and demands a commitment to homework and proper studying.

That being said, the two programs are still very different. An AP program usually ends up costing significantly less at $79 per exam X 8-12 exams (generous but not overly daunting) for a total of $632-$948. On the other hand, if the quality of the AP class is lacking, one may end up with less research and "long-term" project opportunities than an IB program entails.

One question for Yoshi: For how many years of advanced standing would your 24 credits have qualified you?

Your comment stating that you know of no students who had taken AP courses achieving that level of credit is astonishing. Personally, the tests (5 AP subjects) I have already taken (in my 9th and 10th grade years) would qualify me for one year of advanced standing at each of the colleges I am looking at (Stanford, Brown and Harvard to name a few). Granted 5 APs by the end of sophomore year is not quite normal, but it is not unique either. From the information I have gathered, the type of candidate who would have excelled in an IB program would average about 9 APs (Math, 3 Sciences, 1 For.Lang, 1 For. Lit., Engl Lang, 2 History/SS - maybe more), clearly enough to gain a considerable degree of advanced standing.

By Wonder on Wednesday, January 01, 2003 - 10:00 am: Edit

Can costs for either AP or IB ever be waived in cases of need?

By Bitz on Wednesday, January 01, 2003 - 08:26 pm: Edit

For APs one can get a fee waiver from the school, but I'm not quite sure what degree of need you have to show. You may also be able to get money from local corporations/companies interested in helping youth causes. One thing is for certain, you should try every possibility to get funds because AP courses are well worth the effort.

By tt on Sunday, January 05, 2003 - 04:43 am: Edit

Yoshi: What college are you attending?

By IBsux on Sunday, January 05, 2003 - 09:39 pm: Edit

According to "A is for Admission", a book highly publicized here, an IB course and an AP course are seen equal in the eyes of an admissions officer. The only difference is if you are graduating with an IB diploma, which basically means all your classes were advanced. However, you don't get it until the end of your senior year so you can't really put that down on your transcript. The diploma is useless in terms of getting admission to colleges. A kids with all APs would look equal to a kid with all IBs.

The valedictorian of my class this year who went to Harvard was in the IB program then quit, because it is pointless.

By anon on Monday, January 06, 2003 - 08:52 am: Edit

>>However, you don't get it (IB diploma) until the end of your senior year so you can't really put that down on your transcript.<<

Be serious! No one has any kind of diploma until they actually graduate. You don't have to claim actual receipt of a diploma, just that you're on track for it!

By Bitz on Monday, January 06, 2003 - 04:38 pm: Edit

Don't forget that someone taking AP courses can be awarded AP scholar awards. These can be listed on an application and are another thing IB students miss out on.

By Marmeladov on Wednesday, January 08, 2003 - 02:30 am: Edit

I, for one, hate useless bookwork.

That doesn't mean that I don't do it. Well, it does, but at least I *try* to do it. I think it more depends on the teacher; they don't have IB at my school, but within every program there will be the teachers who don't know how to teach and thus give loads of work to students in hope that they'll pick something up and/or to keep them too busy to complain, and there will be those who *are good teachers*. It doesn't matter whether he or she is an IB teacher or an AP teacher, or neither, even—personally, I would prefer to have the good teacher in any case, and screw what colleges will think.

In other words, I agree with Catfish.

This is a fun forum! Oh, is it that late already? And with my history and my English and my chemistry and my calculus homework still to . . .

By - on Wednesday, January 08, 2003 - 07:55 am: Edit

Does IB SL = Honors? Can anyone shed light on this?

By yce on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 03:55 am: Edit

yes, please, how do IB SL courses look?

Catfish, you sound embittered by failure, lol, whether or not this is true you'll probably beat me up for in your next post...

The thing is, it is hard. As far as i've been briefed, the IB DP is 6 courses at college level. As 11th graders, this does mean you have to stay up later, be self-motivated and self-disciplined, and study more. Don't whinge and scream because you can't achieve this discipline.

Are you all aware that the IB DP requires 150 CAS hours, a 4000 word mini-thesis thing, and a TOK class, as well as a second language?

By Bitz on Saturday, February 15, 2003 - 12:12 pm: Edit

As for your last remark yce, 150 CAS hours really isn't that much. This year (well, a half-year so far), I've already done about 250 hours of community service (tutoring, a science club for disadvantaged youth, and work with a religious organization that does various things).

As for te 4000 word mini-thesis, I am in an AP program and while I can't say that I've done a 4000 word paper, I did have to do three research papers last year, each of about 3000 words (12 pages). They were in English, European History, and Physics.

The TOK class is just seen as another non-core course by colleges, and is information that one should get anyway during their high school years.

Finally, almost all high school students have to take a foreign language, so it isn't a big deal.

By man, stop complaining on Saturday, February 15, 2003 - 12:34 pm: Edit

People who complain about the 4000 word paper are wusses. My IB english teacher gave us 2 4000-7000 range essays (worth a heck of a lot of marks) so far to prepare for the 4000 word one. It's not that much, so stop complaining.

The other IB class did a 7000 MININUM word essay on the history of drama (climate and reason for change, important figures etc...). most people ended up with a lot more than 7000 words...

By Bestia (Bestia) on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 11:55 pm: Edit

Hey, for all of you looking for a better program than IB, I've got one for you! It's called Dual Enrollment! My question for you all is, why prepare for college while you can go now? And go for free at that! Dual Enrollment is a program available in most states in the United States. I am in Florida and I entered college with 26 credit hours completed while I was in High School.

Dual Enrollment allows you to take college classes at a local community college or public University while you are in High School. The credits you earn in these college classes count for college credit as well as High School credit. They also count towards your college GPA, unlike IB. It is surely the way to go.

All this crap about IB makes me sick. The whole motivating force behind the properly coined "IB Propagandist" (IB coordinator -- good one catfish!) is the enormous amount of money the highschools get for having an IB program. They don't do it out of the goodness of their hearts, they do it for cold hard cash! And they target the minorities because they are worth double the funding. That is the only reason that IB is so popular among some highschools. And yes the IB kids are upper middle class students for the most part who just need that extra praise and to be segregated from everyone else. I think it's disgusting.

Warning: the high schools and the IB propagandist will strongly urge you not to do DE and to stay in IB. Because the HS has to pay for you to do DE, and then they lose the funding you would have had for doing IB. Get out of IB now while you still can!

By Angrymasturb8r (Angrymasturb8r) on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 12:25 am: Edit

Bestia, I agree that Dual Enrollment (DE) is a good program, however, "better" is an opinion that is best left up to an individual.

If you are looking for a program that is going to give you a lot of college credit, IB is not for you. DE is definitely the better choice for those who wish to spend less time in college. At most schools (private schools especially), you will receive little or no credit for passing IB exams. You can look at a college's website for more information, as they generally publish charts showing what kind of credits you would receive for getting high scores (5 or more) on an exam.

If you are looking for a program that will prepare you for college, IB is not the program for you. The workload given in IB is full of useless assignments and meaningless curriculum. While it is true that the stress that the average IB student undergoes is higher than what most would experience in college, the material is hardly useful in anything that would happen in real life. If you are looking for college preparation, DE is still the better choice, AS IT IS ACTUALLY COLLEGE!! I don't think it takes too many IB students to figure that one out.

If you are looking to be in classes full of arrogant, pompous, and basically unpleasant people, IB is definitely the program of your choice. As Depressed Catfish said/implied, the average IB student is under the impression that he/she is somehow better and smarter than EVERYONE else. The students are extremely competitive, and base their success solely on grades.

I am soon to be a Senior IB student, and I have only tolerated the program because I believe that colleges have a distorted view of what the IB program actually is. It is my hope that being in the IB program will somehow elevate me above the other white middle class male college applicants that colleges love to ignore. If I were a minority (a black lesbian, an Indian Jew, etc.) I might have a chance at getting into the college of my choice, but as it stands, I see no alternative but to subject myself to the disgusting International Baccalaureate program.

By Bestia (Bestia) on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 06:56 pm: Edit

Hey, note the word *may* tuan. How many people do you know that get all 7's on every single IB of exam? Because I sure as hell don't know any. By the way I never said I was in the IB program -- I never made that mistake. BUT, I was a teacher asst. in an IB english class for 3 years so I am very familiar with the program and I haven't met one person who graduated, with or without the IB diploma, that was 100% satisfied with the results/rewards of the IB program. No one has reaped the promised benefits that the IB Propagandist (IB COORDINATOR) has given them.

Buy hey, it's your high school life and childhood -- put it to a waste if you want.

By Chris_Wilson (Chris_Wilson) on Friday, October 24, 2003 - 02:27 am: Edit

Foremost I would like to dispell the myth that all IB students are white middle class kids whith doctor parents who are only in the program to prove how smart they are. Everyone runs into a few kids that flaunt their sucsess for the sake of their own ego, get over yourself. My opinion of the IB program, which is inhertintly jaded by association, is that the program provides an atmosphere of free thinking. Of course there is a good deal of work but your not chained to homework unless you create more work for yourself. As for it being a waste of time, the only waste of time I can concieve is that of someone in a comatose state. Anyone who has expierianced anything in high school has not wasted their time. The badmouthing of all these programs is really sickening. Whats most tangible in the end is how you feel with your self, thats who you have to live with for the rest of your life. One day your going to die. Make the most of your time, don't bicker over petty high school things.

PS thanks to all of the voices of reason at this site

By Heavyzakura334 (Heavyzakura334) on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 12:17 am: Edit

I would like to thank all those who have contributed to this discussion. I am an IB student. The Diploma is different from Ap because of several things. Sure the ToK course (One of my favorites) and The 4000 word EE (HMMMM) exactly.
My courses have been

IB HL English = 1 extra point in a 4.0 GPA scale for the university*

History IB HL = 1 more point in the GPA scale

Bio IB HL= 1 more point

Math SL = 1 more point **

Theatre SL = 1 more **

French IB SL = 1 more **

*See if the college or university you are applying to add one more point for IB/AP courses.

** The University of California system adds the same weight to SL

Enough of this ••••! If you do not want to have lots of work in high school do not join the program. Catfish states that students see value in "what is being spoon-fed” (Catfish 1st post Sunday, December 22, 2002 - 01:19 am) Here in my school we choose that which we read. I for example, choose books from authors such as Orwell, Tolstoy, Kundera, D.H. Lawrence, Victor Hugo and others... not all classics. The EE is independent study, which is like a "mini" thesis, helps you get acquainted with some term papers you will receive in college. Here in California as in other places people note the difference of IB and regular, I too have noticed it between AP and regular. Apparently, Catfish had a bad experience. If any of you are thinking of joining any of these programs, I encourage you to. Only if you care enough to pursue higher intellectual work than what the regular classes offer. I am not the best IBer in my school, yet I distinguish my self. The Programme gives one the opportunity to choose between subjects and enables you to discover what your strongest area is. In my case they are Theatre, Languages, Biology and History ( my other classes are B’s).
It is all about having fun and making the best of it, for me that has been the case. I am a senior and I am having a blast with the Diploma. I am not an over achiever nor your valedictorian, but I am distinguished by the colleges I am applying to (New York U, UC, and American U. in Paris)
Oh and I am not white nor Asian, I am Latin American and arrived to the states in 1998 (wow!! yeah that is quite unusual here in California.)
Do not take all these opinions seriously for they are only opinions, get in the programs yourself and try them out, you'll know if you are up to the challenge or not.

By Tenniscraze (Tenniscraze) on Tuesday, March 30, 2004 - 09:21 am: Edit

Yoshi, which university are you attending now?