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post your opinions about the IB and Dual Enrollment Programs

By Bestia (Bestia) on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 12:36 am: Edit

Hey, for all of you looking for a better program than IB, I've got one for you! It's called Dual Enrollment! My question for you all is, why prepare for college while you can go now? And go for free at that! Dual Enrollment is a program available in most states in the United States. I am in Florida and I entered college with 26 credit hours completed while I was in High School.

Dual Enrollment allows you to take college classes at a local community college or public University while you are in High School. The credits you earn in these college classes count for college credit as well as High School credit. They also count towards your college GPA, unlike IB. It is surely the way to go.

All this crap about IB makes me sick. The whole motivating force behind the properly coined "IB Propagandist" (IB coordinator -- good one catfish!) is the enormous amount of money the highschools get for having an IB program. They don't do it out of the goodness of their hearts, they do it for cold hard cash! And they target the minorities because they are worth double the funding. That is the only reason that IB is so popular among some highschools. And yes the IB kids are upper middle class students for the most part who just need that extra praise and to be segregated from everyone else. I think it's disgusting.

Warning: the high schools and the IB propagandist will strongly urge you not to do DE and to stay in IB. Because the HS has to pay for you to do DE, and then they lose the funding you would have had for doing IB. Get out of IB now while you still can!

By Angrymasturb8r (Angrymasturb8r) on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 12:37 am: Edit

Bestia, I agree that Dual Enrollment (DE) is a good program, however, "better" is an opinion that is best left up to an individual.

If you are looking for a program that is going to give you a lot of college credit, IB is not for you. DE is definitely the better choice for those who wish to spend less time in college. At most schools (private schools especially), you will receive little or no credit for passing IB exams. You can look at a college's website for more information, as they generally publish charts showing what kind of credits you would receive for getting high scores (5 or more) on an exam.

If you are looking for a program that will prepare you for college, IB is not the program for you. The workload given in IB is full of useless assignments and meaningless curriculum. While it is true that the stress that the average IB student undergoes is higher than what most would experience in college, the material is hardly useful in anything that would happen in real life. If you are looking for college preparation, DE is still the better choice, AS IT IS ACTUALLY COLLEGE!! I don't think it takes too many IB students to figure that one out.

If you are looking to be in classes full of arrogant, pompous, and basically unpleasant people, IB is definitely the program of your choice. As Depressed Catfish said/implied, the average IB student is under the impression that he/she is somehow better and smarter than EVERYONE else. The students are extremely competitive, and base their success solely on grades.

I am soon to be a Senior IB student, and I have only tolerated the program because I believe that colleges have a distorted view of what the IB program actually is. It is my hope that being in the IB program will somehow elevate me above the other white middle class male college applicants that colleges love to ignore. If I were a minority (a black lesbian, an Indian Jew, etc.) I might have a chance at getting into the college of my choice, but as it stands, I see no alternative but to subject myself to the disgusting International Baccalaureate program.

By Tuannguyen (Tuannguyen) on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 01:47 am: Edit

Where do you all live? Because where i live, the IB kids are actually pretty down to earth.

And i'm asking this because what you are saying is not necessarily true. Where i live, my school actually has to have annual funraising projects to keep the IB and AP going (devoted teachers and parents actually spend time on this).

The stress level is probably more than what an average College student would go through (maybe), but seriously speaking, i wish it was harder (i joined IB for the challenge).

IF i wanted credits, i would've simply taken AP (the easier way out for most subjects, AP is only harder for second languages like french etc and probably Physics, but the rest for IB is harder).

PLUS, where i live, the AP program correlates almost exactly to High School requirements (meaning you actually don't do much more work), and the IB program actually only has a few more modules and a whole bunch more requirements (like CAS and those essays). This means that i can't skip IB or AP! I have to finish off my High School requirements off first before i go onto college material. Taking IB is actually beneficial, you get international recognition for what you do in High School.

What i'm saying is that, IB is not there only for it's educational benefits! It has a lot more. You gets you going on the community service, gets you ready for the huge essays that'll come your way sooner or later, and forces you to speak infront of your class more often than ever! The first thing my teachers told me when i stepped in their classes was "question everything i say, because it's part of the curriculum" (it probably isn't part of the curriculum, but it does stir up a lot of class discussion). TOK is also a treat.

By Quentin_Compson (Quentin_Compson) on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 03:16 pm: Edit

To say that DE prepares you for college moreso than IB is, in my opinion, not true. I'm taking a course at my local CC, and quite frankly, it's both incredibly boring and incredibly easy. My IB classes are much more sophisticated both in content and workload. And IB is not only for upper-middle class students; at my school, it's open to everyone and based solely upon middle school grades. Also, with the credits I recieve from my state school (UF) for IB exams (as well as some APs), I could graduate in 2 or 3 years anyways.
You do not get the same type of education at a CC as you would at a top college; if you did, I would be taking plenty of classes at my CC, but as it stands, I learn much more in IB.

By Bestia (Bestia) on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 10:26 pm: Edit

NEWSFLASH Quentin! You will not get 60 credit hours from the IB program at the University of Florida. It will NOT happen, even if you get all 7's. Go check with UF to see what the max credits they give out for an IB diploma and you'll find out that 30 credit hours (one year of college) would be the absolute maximum you could get. Also, HS students living in the Gainesville area could start taking DE classes at UF and get college credit, and also a fair taste of what college is like by ACTUALLY ATTENDING A UNIVERSITY FOR FREE.

To say that IB teaches you more than a CC isn't very fair. Community Colleges have more funding, better programs and equipment, and better qualified teachers needing more education, than any High Schools minimum requirements need.

Take it from someone in college that is familar with the IB program that the IB classes don't prepare you for college. College classes don't overload you with busy work. In college IB students won't be coddled as they are by so many high schools due to the enormous amounts of money a HS receives by having an IB and AP program. College classes can have about 3 main tests per semester and if you don't do well on those you fail. You don't have the BS homework grades to boost your grades up like in IB.

Just to let you all know, getting an AA from a Community College will allow you to be admitted to ANY state university (that's how it works in Florida anyway). That mean's that if you get your AA in high school with DE you will have a degree for free (60 credit hours) and admission into the best University in Florida.

I would also like to say that AP is harder than IB. The AP Eng exam is also harder than the IB English exam as well as most other AP classes. I challenge you to take both the AP and IB exam and see which one is easier to you. You'll see each individual AP exam is harder than its IB counterpart. The only way IB is harder is if you count the entire program as a whole and all the bullish games you have to go through in order to complete it versus one or two AP classes. In that situation IB is harder.

Please think about what classes and programs you do in HS. Don't take the administrations word for it, as they are looking for the most lucrative option first, and then put the students second. Research all your options on your own and look at the cash flows before you commit your high school life to a colossal waste of time.

By Magicdragonfly (Magicdragonfly) on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 11:01 pm: Edit

Tuan-hmm..my teachers get mad at me when I question what they say...esp when I can pretty much prove that I am right and they are wrong...

By Tuannguyen (Tuannguyen) on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 11:33 pm: Edit

Magicdragonfly,

Wow, i'd hate to have those teachers. My teachers give you praise if you can prove them wrong on anything.

Anyways, Bestia,

I find AP to be overly easy. What they learn doesn't even come close to what we are learning, maybe it's simply where i'm living. But whatever, it's obvious that you have a HUGE bias against IB! You're obviously not bashing AP, which does exactly the same as IB does. You're only bashing IB, and even come to the defence of AP (when the very same flaws you find in IB are evident in AP as well).

Seriously, where do you live? I'd like to avoid places with such crazy teachers (i might end up screwing up my children's life etc if i move there). Anyhow, once again. AP is considered easier where i live, i have no idea what you're talking about because the AP English class at my school is about a semester's worth of work behind (in content and homework, they start reading books and finishing off modules 3-4 months after we already finished the exams for that module). The requirements for IB and AP are different. You have to have higher marks to get into IB where i go to, and AP is the easy way out.

Also, IB tests have a lot to do with application, maybe you're good at application. AP has to do more with facts. Maybe you hate memorization. You have a black and white view of the world, the world is not necessarily black or white. Giving advice like that is dangerous, you're simply not giving anything the credit it deserves, or identifying the specific situations a person will or might encounter. Your bad experience with IB might actually be a blessing to another. This "BS" workload you speak about may help a lot of people learn a lot of skills best learned early (management, critical/analytical thinking, questioning etc...)

For example, a person might prefer IB's workload, the things YOU call "BS" another might call "genius" or "beautiful". There are people who love outlets for creativity and teamwork. NOT everyone wants to go to a community college where they give you 3 tests a year with the added privilege of a few lectures a week. There are people who want to go private, and IB is almost perfect for preparing you for it's workload (i know people who find Harvard's first and second year overly easy compared to IB, not as in complexity of material, but as in amount of work and what is expected of you). Stress management etc...

I'm simply asking (ironic after this long post eh) why the grudge against IB opposed to AP? AP and IB basically reap the exact same recognition when it comes to entering college, yet you're only bashing IB.

By Tuannguyen (Tuannguyen) on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 11:35 pm: Edit

Oh, and one question...

How many IB classes did you take?

By Canadian_Idol (Canadian_Idol) on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 03:23 am: Edit

"If you are looking for a program that is going to give you a lot of college credit, IB is not for you. DE is definitely the better choice for those who wish to spend less time in college. At most schools (private schools especially), you will receive little or no credit for passing IB exams."

This is definitely NOT true as MOST schools, private schools ESPECIALLY will grant you credits for receiving 6s or 7s on your IB exams.

"You can look at a college's website for more information"

Ditto.

"The workload given in IB is full of useless assignments and meaningless curriculum."

They are certainly not "useless" information. All assignments given out in IB classes are for specific purposes. Take, for example, the World Literature paper. It is very useful in that you are drawing comparison between two different novels from a foreign and unfamiliar culture. This is something you cannot do in regular classes, and if you think this is useless, then I question your motivation.

"While it is true that the stress that the average IB student undergoes is higher than what most would experience in college"

Yep.

"the material is hardly useful in anything that would happen in real life."

It's no different from regular AP classes. Perhaps you lack the imagination and creativity to make it work in real life.

"If you are looking for college preparation, DE is still the better choice, AS IT IS ACTUALLY COLLEGE!!"

I wouldn't necessarily call my community college a "college". People who get like 75% average gpa go to that "institution" in my area.

"I don't think it takes too many IB students to figure that one out."

It took none. That one didn't need figuring out.

"If you are looking to be in classes full of arrogant, pompous, and basically unpleasant people, IB is definitely the program of your choice."

Most people in IB at my school are very humble, hard working people. They have something called HUMILITY.

"As Depressed Catfish said/implied, the average IB student is under the impression that he/she is somehow better and smarter than EVERYONE else."

So are AP kids and kids who do DE. Actually, IB students are in fact more capable because they are able to handle tougher courseloads and more sophiscated material.

"The students are extremely competitive, and base their success solely on grades."

Ever heard of volunteerism? Clubs? Athletics? All areas in which IB students excel in my school.

"I am soon to be a Senior IB student"

*shudder*

"I have only tolerated the program"

You don't need to "tolerate" IB program. You can always choose to drop out if you can't take the heat.

"because I believe that colleges have a distorted view of what the IB program actually is."

They know exactly what the IB program is.

"It is my hope that being in the IB program will somehow elevate me above the other white middle class male college applicants that colleges love to ignore."

Seems like you yourself are under the impression taht you are "better" than others.

"If I were a minority (a black lesbian, an Indian Jew, etc.) I might have a chance at getting into the college of my choice, but as it stands, I see no alternative but to subject myself to the disgusting International Baccalaureate program."

You know how you can stand out? Drop out. You are "unique" because you didn't put up with the "disgusting" IB program.

Peace out.

By Tuannguyen (Tuannguyen) on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 04:05 am: Edit

Canadian Idol,

This guy's locale is totally crazy. Either that, or his motives are totally opposite from most IB kids i know. IB kids i know are naturally humble and hardworking people (as you say). Volunteerism and athletics are very important, and ALL IB kids i know exceed the requirements for the IB Diploma.

DE does NOT encourage volunteerism or the development of one's character. Colleges do NOT have a distorted view of IB. IB is not viewed at as superior in academics, there are plenty of programs such as the British A Levels that go WAY more into depth than IB does. BUT, in recent studies, IB kids in Cambridge actually excel in their "new" college environment opposed to their A level peers. The level of sophisticated thinking exposed to IB kids are simply not seen in many other programs. IB classes encourage discussion, something sought for in REAL college. Of course discussions are included in many classes outside of IB, but it just seems like IB encourages it, meaning you won't have to rely on luck when a teacher comes in, simply hoping she'll stir up some convo.

Repeat: IB is not about marks or academics (many may fall into this illusion), it's about well-roundedness and the preparation for the future. Volunteerism: many people i know who are in IB were urged to start, they started and never stopped, they just needed the little nudge IB gave them. They admit they would've never started if it wasn't for IB, they never felt the joy of helping others out before IB gave them that nudge. And from what you say about DE and it's 3 main tests in each course, it would've never provided the room for such development. The workload is sometimes overwhelming, but this ensures that you will learn to handle the workload in college, and if college doesn't have the type of intense study IB provides, i'm sure the more ambitious student who goes onto grad school will be grateful for the IB experience. Grad school definitely will make IB useful, the experiences, the "useless" workload will be made useful here. The material learned will be useless by now (you won't have the advantage anymore), but the work-ethic and civility developed in IB will be of great benefit.

IB DOES NOT develope this stuff per se. I use the word loosely to simply imply "bring out of us". If you are lazy and hate challenges, i bet you'll simply end up HATING IB, seeing everythign about it as useless, someone who bashes something because it seems "useless" to them.

Who knows, maybe Bestia has a totally legit reason for hating IB so much. Maybe when he was volunteering to fulfill the minimum requirements for IB he was bitten by an old lady... :P i'm kidding... It would really help if you explain the reason why you hate IB so much Bestia. Just because YOUR IB class is filled with mostly white supremist kids (for example of course) does not mean mine is. You just landed yourself in a bad location (for some reason, most jackasses live close to eachother these days, kidding, but kinda true).

By Canadian_Idol (Canadian_Idol) on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 04:44 am: Edit

haha...very well said tuan. I may have been overly aggressive on my previous post, but I was just ired at the cheap shots taken at IB.

I'm also disappointed at how they run IB in angry's school. I'm sure most IB schools offer just the opposite of what he's describing.

I would realllly encourage anyone to take the IB program. It changes the way you observe, the way you think, the way you live. If you want challenge, go for IB. That might sound like a cliched statement, but it really is true. People tend to get lazy when they are not tested up to their potential. In IB, you never have to worry about that kind of problem.

Plus, there is a feeling of community. There are 50-100 people who are in the program together and going through the exact same tribulations as you are. You develop a special kind of relationships with your friends. You're all in this together.

In the end, it will have to come down to the mettle of the individual. However, IB provides a gorgeous opportunity to do something truly meaningful in high school.

By Elindiodelgado (Elindiodelgado) on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 02:23 pm: Edit

Now that I have wasted the past three years of my life as a student in the IB program, and am bracing myself for the final year of this torture, I can honestly say that the program had done absolutely nothing to prepare me for college. There have been infinite useless assignments, which I am forced to subject myself to because I understand that excelling in the IB program does help in gaining admission to certain first tier colleges and universities. The sole purpose of the many assignments in the IB program is to teach effective time management skills, which, I admit, will help IB graduates as they begin college. However, these time management skills come at a great cost. As a student in the IB program, it is obvious that the vast majority of IB diploma candidates consider themselves far superior to other 'regular' students, or 'regs' as they are frequently referred to; and this is just one instance of the numerous ways by which IB students display their arrogance. As despicable as I believe these mindsets to be, it is necessary for me to suffer through the program in order to gain admission to the schools of my choice, as mentioned before. And as for Canadian Idol's suggestion that an alternative is to simply drop out from the program if I can't take the heat, I feel it is necessary to mention that over the course of the past three years, I have excelled in the IB program, and that I honestly find the IB coursework to be significantly easier than that of the AP curriculum. But for now, I'm going to go enjoy the rest of my summer, because in August, I will have to face yet another year of meaningless assignments and deadlines. I look forward to reading the responses to this post.

By Tuannguyen (Tuannguyen) on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 02:39 pm: Edit

Lets just give this a rest. Like i said, a lot of you are arrogant enough to believe that ALL IB kids are how you describe them. You complain about their "superiority complex" yet you yourself seem to feel superior to them. Am i wrong?

I don't know where you go to school, but a student is a student where i go. The so called "common" reference to non-IBs as "regs" is NON-EXISTANT where i live. Seriously, i've never heard anyone say that to another before.

A lot of the IB kids i know do realize that there are better programs out there. But AP definitely is NOT one of them. My school offer BOTH programs, and IB is harder, i'm taking a few APs (exams) by the end of senior, and a lot of people in my school has done this before as well. They all say AP is a lot easier. The curriculum itself is a lot easier than IB. The only systems i know that are harder than IB are probably the school systems of Japan and Korea (who are on average two years ahead of America) and the British A levels (who go more in depth, but don't focus more on a broad spectrum, you learn in detail, but in the end, it's about the same workload, IB is just more broad).

AP is more memorizing, and maybe that's the big problem. IB is more application. It's personal preference i guess.

And why do people CONSTANTLY make up accounts only to diss IB? Is there a pattern? Does IB really suck that much in your area? Like i said, tell me where you live so i can avoid the fricken area. You complain how arrogant IB kids are, but by labelling ALL IB kids with the exact same label only through YOUR experiences is just as pompous and mindless as labelling a kid a "reg". If you think IB sucks, then just take AP, it's not that hard. Most colleges, actually almost all in America, prefer AP credit over IB anyways. It's the simple truth.

"I feel it is necessary to mention that over the course of the past three years"

And IB is a 2 year program, not 3 or 4. Maybe this is the reason for why IB is easy in YOUR area. IB is not meant to be done in 4 years! You've already finished 3 years of IB and are going on for a fourth! That's not how IB should be done, the organization clearly stated that it has to be done in 2 years (my school tried to make it 3 for flexibility, but they were refused and end up keeping the 2 year way). That'll thin out the material, significantly making it easier. It's like taking AP in 2 years. Comparatively, through FAIR comparison of course, IB is harder than AP. If you do it correctly, as in taking the diploma and finishing the program within TWO years (and comparing yourself to a student who takes 5-6 APs a year, as in finishing off the class in a year as most school does it).

Anyways, can you state the reason why you think IB is easer than AP? ARE you taking both classes? Does your school offer both programs? If so, then why not take AP? It's viewed at EXACTLY the same way as IB is, i mean EXACTLY, there's NO advantage in taking IB over AP.

By Tuannguyen (Tuannguyen) on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 02:56 pm: Edit

5-6 APs a year VS. a year of IB... IB>AP, but if you thin IB out like your school did, meaning teaching about half of what was meant to be taught within a year, then definitely AP would win. IB was meant to be compacted into 2 years to stress the BS out of you, it's preparation for real life, stress is natural, and if you can't handle EASY stuff like acadmeics, then how are you going to become a doctor who works 80+ hours a week? Or become a CEO of a large starting corporation and put 15+ hours a day like Bill Gates did in his early years?

RIGHT NOW, the only flaw i see is that it's not administrated well enough. Your school has found a loophole, and is teaching IB in 4 years instead of the intended 2. That's cheap like hell! AP classes are meant to be taught in 1 year. And if you compare the workload with how they were meant to be taught (IB in 2 years, and AP in 1), IB is harder, but if you don't do it this way and thin out IB, of course IB would be easier.

And yes, i do hate arrogant people, like the ones you describe, but i'm not ready enough to label everyone in IB as arrogant through only your experiences. The IB kids at my school are very down to earth, and are fairly aware of the programs out there.

By Elindiodelgado (Elindiodelgado) on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 06:00 pm: Edit

To clarify, I have spent the last year as a student in the actual IB program, and the two previous years in the Pre IB program, which is not associated with the IBO in any way, rather it is simply a method by which my high school 'weeds' students out before the actual IB program.

By Tuannguyen (Tuannguyen) on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 06:20 pm: Edit

Thanks for the clarification.

Can you answer the other questions i asked of you? Does your school offer both programs etc... and what classes are you taking.

I know for sure AP is harder for the second languages (spanish etc...), but AP English is a joke. AP Physics C is probably a bit harder, but that's it. Everything else taught in IB is a lot more sophisticated. Most people, after junior year, take AP English Language, and most of my class got 5s on that. Next year, we'll probably end up having to finish the AP English Lit, from what i hear, it's also easy to get 5s on that one. My IB class is primarily IB, but A LOT of kids take AP exams to ensure credit. They take IB for the challenge, but they still like the credits. Like Physics SL is just as good as Physics HL (just a few modules behind i think), but SL is not recognized, so students take the AP Physics B or C and usually score 5s for the B or a 4 for the C (a few 5s, but out of the ten IB kids who did this last year, i think only 4 got 5s, the rest got 4s). But once again, this is opinion. Because IB is more application, and AP is more memorizing, and because of this IB might be easy for you and AP hard, while AP is EXTREMELY easy for me and IB is hard. Because one person might hate memorizing while another might love it etc...

BUT one can't deny one fact. IB is filled with more content. I know this because my school offers BOTH programs, and when i had to choose between the two programs i looked through the two programs contentwise and found IB to be more filled (and i like challenges so i took IB, i kinda wanted to take AP but i thought i could take the exams if i wanted too even if i don't take the classes).

By Bestia (Bestia) on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 06:25 pm: Edit

Umm excuse me but I was told by a Ph.D. English teacher that teaches both IB and AP English that AP English is MUCH HARDER than the IB English counterpart. I don't know where you are getting your facts from but I have a documented, respected source saying the AP Exams are harder than the IB exams.

I also know that in AP Eng classes they have to oral presentations just like IB, and also have to do huge papers, content tests and much more. And don't think that a puny 4,000 word essay will prepare you for college. In my Macroeconomics class I turned in a 26 page paper during my first year. I don't remember anyone in IB doing one of those!

Let's examine a quote from Tuan:

"They admit they would've never started if it wasn't for IB, they never felt the joy of helping others out before IB gave them that nudge."

I, personally, think it is pathetic and disgusting if you need an IB program to teach you to be a caring person and to volunteer. If you never have experienced the joy of helping others before IB there is something seriously wrong with you, and how your parents raised you.

Another quote stated:
"And from what you say about DE and its 3 main tests in each course, it would've never provided the room for such development. The workload is sometimes overwhelming, but this ensures that you will learn to handle the workload in college, and if college doesn't have the type of intense study IB provides, I’m sure the more ambitious student who goes onto grad school will be grateful for the IB experience. Grad school definitely will make IB useful, the experiences, the "useless" workload will be made useful here."

Umm... if you think that taking 3 main tests a semester in a college class won’t provide you room for development then you might as well not go to college and go work at McDonalds. Harvard University is not like IB. NO UNIVERSITY IS! No College or University will have you do the menial, annoying, tedious homework that IB has you do each and every night. You won’t have weekly tests in higher level education. You only have a few main tests and if you fail one you may fail the entire class! THAT'S college, and that is NOT what IB prepares you for.

IB is totally off the mark for college preparation. IB has you learn a little, then take a test, then forget it and learn for the next test. In college you have to learn all the material and then take 3 or 4 comp tests on everything to prove your proficiency. Once IB does that and ends the busy work let me know, but as for right now DE is the way to go to prepare for college.

By Dkm (Dkm) on Monday, September 01, 2003 - 06:39 am: Edit

Bestia....u r stupid as hell..and u dont know s***..so it is better that u stop talking about the IB caz most ppl here think the IB is useful

By Tacomachica (Tacomachica) on Thursday, September 04, 2003 - 07:14 pm: Edit

Hi, I was wondering if you guys may be able to help me out. I am a college student doing some research on the IB program and I stumbled across your discussion. I am looking for opinions from current and past IB'ers. Any opinions would be helpful and greatly appreciated. Thanks.

By Dkm (Dkm) on Sunday, September 07, 2003 - 07:55 am: Edit

u can email me if u like....i am in a skool which is totally international and has IB from K-13 grades