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What the •••• were they thinking when they gave Davey a 5 year extension? The Cubs are going to win a series before ND wins a national title. And no, I'm not optimistic about the Cubs. :-(

By George Meany on Sunday, August 26, 2001 - 09:21 am: Edit

There's a good article in today's USA Weekend magazine about five things we can do to improve education. One of those things is to take sports down from its throne of omnipotence in our schools. I agree wholeheartedly.

What triggered this mini-rant is the presence of a visitor's query, on a college-admissions discussion forum, involving apparently some sports coach at Notre Dame. When's the last time we've seen a similarly impassioned protest about the retention of a university president or provost? Why must everything be put in a sports context? Why is winning everything?

My apologies. It's not often that I'm lured from my lurker's position in the bushes, but this is a hot-button topic for me.

By Domer97 on Sunday, August 26, 2001 - 12:55 pm: Edit

What a load of ••••, GM. If someone isn't interested in football, they don't deserve to be admitted to Notre Dame. They shouldn't even apply. Does that tie it all together for you, and get us back on topic? ;-)

By Domer97 on Sunday, August 26, 2001 - 12:58 pm: Edit

By the way, GM, sports aren't totally irrelevant to the admissions thing. Northwestern was always really lame in the Big 10. When they finally woke up and got to the Rose Bowl, the got a ton more applications. I bet the pointy-headed geeks in the admissions office weren't complaining THAT year - they got to reject even more people than usual!

By George Meany on Sunday, August 26, 2001 - 07:47 pm: Edit

Domer (is your last name "Simpson," BTW?), in 1999, my son graduated from the current U.S. News-ranked #1 national university. The only complaint he had about his days there was that athletes took up a lot of valuable spots from more deserving, better-qualified applicants.

According to him, the jocks came to class unprepared, missed a lot of classes because of their "schedule," and were among the most troublesome behavior problems among the student body.

I'm not against sports altogether; I'm just against their icon-like status across America's colleges and universities. If a high school senior's main reason for applying to NU is the fact that they made it to the Rose Bowl, then we've come to one helluva sad place in our understanding of the purpose of higher education.

By Domer97 on Sunday, August 26, 2001 - 08:38 pm: Edit

>>my son graduated from the current U.S. News-ranked #1 national university<<

Bet they didn't even crack the top 25 in the AP or CNN rankings! I bet your kid can't watch their games on TV every week either.

Besides, if schools didn't admit athletes, who would hold down the curve to make the grade-grubbers look good? If the jocks weren't there, some bookworm would be at the bottom of the class, and would probably be really bummed out about it.

By George Meany on Monday, August 27, 2001 - 08:48 am: Edit

>I bet your kid can't watch their games on TV every week either.

My kid doesn't watch TV. He reads Proust, Faulkner, and Spinoza, none of whom are in a sitcom or populate "reality" programming.

Speaking of watching TV, I see from the ubiquitous pre-game hype, that the majority of Big 10 and SEC "scholar"-athletes are majoring in "Undergraduate Studies." Now there's a discipline with some clarity and focus for a prospective employer to ponder.

So what you're saying then is that college athletes are GPA fodder for the true students. I guess that's better than buying airline tickets with stolen credit cards.

By Domer97 on Monday, August 27, 2001 - 10:31 am: Edit

GM, you brought up US News - I think they have done more to screw up college football than when stadiums stopped selling beer. Now, all school honchos think about is graduation rates and SAT scores. Look at ND. Some pin-headed genius decided that ND would set the example for the rest of the world, and only recruit players who wanted to graduate and had decent SATs.

How the •••• can you compete with Nebraska or FSU if you expect your players to graduate? If ND wasn't so hung up on keeping its top 25 US News ranking (as if anyone cares about that ••••) they could recruit some real players. Before US News, schools didn't confuse football players with all that academic BS. Now, you've got to screw up sports to get ranked by US News. Look at supposedly hot stuff Harvard and Yale. It used to be people all over cared who won, not just a bunch of sissies in the stands drinking hot toddies. Now, who even knows when they play?

By George Meany on Monday, August 27, 2001 - 11:58 am: Edit

I really should be doing my job instead of yielding to my almost-morbid curiosity with this thread, but I have to keep bringing the discussion back to an intelligent center. That's not to imply that you're not intelligent, Domer. (It's odd that I would have to state that affirmation within the context of a double negative, isn't it?)

BTW, speaking of "my job," I work for three of those "sissies" to whom you so glibbly refer. Our CEO, COO, and CFO are all Ivy Leaguers from Princeton, Yale, and Harvard, respectively. Our CEO, Class of '72, was an All-Ivy LAXer (that's "la crosse player," for all you South Benders) who could headslap most of today's Division I footballing thugs silly. Don't confuse educational pedigree with lack of masculinity. They're not all Niles Cranes.

One more thing. Our shipping department hires only college grads and we have quite a few ex-Big East and SEC pigskinners on the roster. They're great for all that heavy lifting.

By Domer97 on Monday, August 27, 2001 - 12:21 pm: Edit

>>Our CEO, Class of '72, was an All-Ivy LAXer<<

I guess that makes him an ExLAXer, now. A real regular guy, I bet. We have lacrosse, too, but the sticks are different (no little nets) and only the girls play it, I think they call it field hockey.

I guess nobody here wants to stick up for Bob Davey. What a surprise. I'm outta here.

By david Hawsey on Tuesday, August 28, 2001 - 06:50 pm: Edit

You guys are at least showing some class here! A quick trip to the Princeton Review website makes me glad we're over here, with folks who care less about whether Ford or Chevy drives "like a rock," and more about what comprises a quality education.

For the record:

1. NCAA statsitics show that for most major sports, the top composite GPAs for student-athletes this last year among any division were among Division III, with a few at the Div. I level. If you want more stats and specific schools, you'll have to ask nicely!

2. As for hiring from colleges, and those who end up in COO, CEO and other top-exec positions, less than 13% of all Fortune 300 CEOs attended an Ivy League. Most went Carnegie-classified Baccalaureate and Masters I colleges, guys.

3. As for the NCAA itself, the top two positions are held by Cedric Dempsey (Chairman and CEO), and Dan Boggan (COO), both graduates of a Division III school in Michigan.

4. I don't drive a Ford or a Chevy. But I do admit to owning two of the three ugliest cars in America back in the 1970s: a green Pinto wagon, and a powder-blue AMC Gremlin. If only I had that Vega, I woulda' had a three-peat!

By George Meany on Wednesday, August 29, 2001 - 08:23 am: Edit

If you call Domer Simpson's use of multiple moderator-deleted epithets classy, then I'd hate to see the depths of the Princeton Review site. Who moderates those forums, anyhow? They must be slightly warped themselves to allow such nonsense to perpetuate.

By David Hawsey on Wednesday, August 29, 2001 - 08:25 pm: Edit

Hey, class is a moving target! I can't stay on the PR website more than 5 minutes before I realize how meaningless it has become. I think the PR folks started with some great products and services, but have grown out of hand in some ways. We're a no-nonsense, Mom&Pop shop that wants to serve you, not ourselves.

We're trying to keep this a careful and respectful blend between Click & Clack (Car Talk/NPR) and Consumer Reports-style objectivity. The consumer comes first, and as long as colleges play a straight hand, we'll have meaningful conversations.

I've always said that a college education, and higher education in general is the last, great American product or service that is now forced to ooperate under common business practices. Colleges that stick to modeling the values they represent, teach well, and contribute to society in all the effective and measurable ways they can are the ones we find easiest to work with --- and have nothing to hide.

The rest seem to end up in the minutae of the rankings and ratings wars between ego-fueled, discussion board surfers.

We just want to help kids find the best match for their individual needs, and make the "shopping" an honest and easier process than it's been for the last two decades!

We appreciate your support of this site, and your "higher level" topics. Tell your friends to come on over and visit!

By Domer97 on Friday, October 19, 2001 - 10:09 am: Edit

Good news for ND fans everywhere... The word on the street is that Davey is out, no matter what. I don't think the administration is going to get fooled like last year, when he ran off a string of wins at the end of the season to save his job, right before getting humiliated in the Fiesta Bowl.

By George Meany on Friday, October 19, 2001 - 02:37 pm: Edit

Maybe he can save Penn State now.

By Domer97 on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 02:52 pm: Edit

I'm sure ND would trade Davey for Paterno, even with Penn State's record this year. Paterno might take the trade, too, to start adding to his win column again (even though he finally added one against Northwestern U). Bobby Bowden isn't far behind Joe P, and FSU is adding wins a lot faster than PSU this year (even with their own setbacks). Joe P might see his own record beaten even faster than Mark McGuire's!

By Domer97 on Monday, October 29, 2001 - 08:32 am: Edit

I guess the BC loss is good news and bad news for ND fans. Bad news, because they lost. Good news, because this should be the final nail in Davey's coffin.

Over the years, ND has a history of miracle finishes - a field goal as time expires, a fingertip catch in the end zone with seconds to go. This time, BC darn near gave ND the game in the final minutes and ND still couldn't make a play. Guess even the Higher Power doesn't like Davey. Nope, I'm not talking about the AD, either...

By George Meany on Monday, October 29, 2001 - 04:17 pm: Edit

Hey, Domer. Who would win a Penn State-ND clash these days? Looks like JoePa is getting his act together.

By GFI on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 04:13 pm: Edit

PSU 27, ND 14.

By Domer97 on Sunday, November 04, 2001 - 09:26 pm: Edit

Hey, I like these cool new smilies! This has to be the best college discussion board anywhere!

Bob Davey's job performance:
Special End of Season Greeting for Bob:

(No, he's not waving "hello", Bob!)

Domer97

By Domer97 on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 01:02 pm: Edit

This thread needs a "choking" smiley after ND's 4th quarter fade against Stanford. Well, just another insurance payment on Bob Davey's departure...

Take THAT, Bob!

By Domer97 on Friday, November 30, 2001 - 09:07 am: Edit

Hey, for those of you who thought this thread was irrelevant to this forum that spends all its time talking about fancy-pants Ivy League schools, here's the missing link. Bob Davey was crying the blues about how it was tough to run a football team at a school that has some academic requirements for admitted athletes, and was quoted as saying, "Stanford is an Ivy League school." You would think a guy who has spent most of his life in Division I sports would know who the heck is in the Ivy League - it's just a sports conference, not some sort of academic consortium or badge of elitism. Sheeeshhh...

By George Meany on Saturday, December 01, 2001 - 10:22 am: Edit

Domer, we should form a citizens-for-justice committee and go out and round up those responsible for Davie's five-year contract. I sure hope that there's an escape clause in there somewhere for ND. Otherwise, they're going to take a double hit: (1) During the next giving campaign, alums will be fuming over the gridiron humiliation and their purses will pucker and (2) the school will have to cough up the balance of Davie's pay. Not a pretty picture.

By Domer97 on Sunday, December 02, 2001 - 04:58 pm: Edit

Well, it looks like Notre Dame finally realized what the rest of us did last year: Davey may be a good guy, but he's not the right guy for ND. He's out, and the search for a replacement begins. Ya read it here first...

By George Meany on Monday, December 10, 2001 - 09:00 pm: Edit

Well, Domer, it's COACH TIME at ND! What's your take on The Guy from GT?

By Domer97 on Wednesday, December 12, 2001 - 09:36 am: Edit

Looks like he's got potential, George. He doesn't come from an ultra-elite program, but he did pretty well at Georgia Tech. I don't think he's going to take much BS from anyone, press and alumni included. Kind of a Bobby Knight type guy, without having to launch chairs or choke players.

By George Meany on Wednesday, December 12, 2001 - 09:04 pm: Edit

>>Kind of a Bobby Knight type guy, without having to launch chairs or choke players.<<

Translation: Dull press coverage?

By George Meany on Friday, December 14, 2001 - 09:46 am: Edit

Looks like Mr. O'Leary may have kicked over the lantern this time. I'm hearing that ND's new football coach has already resigned. Something about him not being a college graduate. Falsified credentials? Who knows? This will be popular with the alums.

My theory is that someone e-mailed ND and blew the whistle on hertofore covered up recruiting violations or some other less-than-kosher NCAA behavior on his part. Let's bring back Davie to finsih out his contract. At least he has a legitimate degree!

By Domer97 on Friday, December 14, 2001 - 10:23 am: Edit

Yeah, Davey would be real effective now. What a fiasco. I think the next head to roll will be Kevin White. First he gives Davey a 5 year deal, then he fires him after a year, & now it looks like they didn't do the basic reference checks on O'Leary. I wonder if Bobby Knight would like to try his hand at football? At least the players wear protective gear, so flying chairs wouldn't be a problem. And the ND football team is fully capable of doing its own choking - look at how they faded in the 4th quarter all season.

By George Meany on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 02:08 pm: Edit

Now there are rumors about ND bringing Lou Holtz back. The more things change, the more they stay the same. Duh.

By George Meany on Thursday, December 20, 2001 - 07:50 am: Edit

Forget Lou Holtz. He's not coming. However, Jesse Jackson wants ND to hire a black coach.

The article notes that athletic director, Kevin White, includes among ND's selection criteria "head coaching experience and a record of success [but] Jackson said that leaves too many black candidates out, [noting] 'We must remove this idea that we set criteria that eliminate people from possibilities.'"

ND alums everywhere are eagerly anticipating the Irish becoming the NC"AA" leader in providing head-coaching OJT for assistant coaches from losing programs.

By Domer97 on Thursday, December 20, 2001 - 08:52 am: Edit

George, Jesse could still get his wish. It seems like Notre Dame has already been turned down by most head coaches with successful records!

I hear Lou Holtz is promoting his son, Skip, as a good choice for Notre Dame. I'd be surprised if Lou came back, but an interesting scenario would be a package deal - Lou comes back for several years, but Skip gets hired, too, with a long-term contract. Lou gets Skip settled in, recruits a few classes, gets the win/loss record over .500, and then retires (or even goes to coach someplace else). Skip takes over, and either carries on the tradition or goes the way of Bob Davey. Ya read it here first.

By George Meany on Thursday, December 20, 2001 - 09:08 am: Edit

Kind of a "Skip-to-my-Lou, my darlin'" scenario. I like it!

By George Meany on Monday, December 31, 2001 - 03:49 pm: Edit

Jesse speaks; ND listens. USAToday.com says, Report: Willingham the choice at Notre Dame ... ESPN is reporting [Stanford's Tyrone] Willingham has agreed to a six-year contract worth between $2-3 million per year ... If hired, Willingham would become the first black head coach in any sport for the Fighting Irish.

The bigger question: When will ND hire a black woman president?

By Domer97 on Tuesday, January 01, 2002 - 07:23 pm: Edit

Other than the fact that his win/loss record is worse than Bob Davey's, Willingham looks like a great choice.

I heard a statistic the other day. A few years ago, Notre Dame had the best football recruiting class of any college, measured by how many of the top 100 high school players they got. A study of the grades and SATs of the top 100 HS prospects showed that 40 - 50% were not recruitable by ND (for academic reasons). This shows that ND and similar schools have real challenge in recruiting if they can't even look at half of the players. It also shows they CAN succeed if they work at it. I think Willingham will be a great recruiter.