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Help! My daughter is having a hard time deciding whether it's worth her while to apply to NU. Here are her stats:

Class rank: 51/824 at a strong Chicago suburban h.s.
GPA: 3.8 UW; 4.1 Weighted
ACT: 30 composite
Course work: always honors & AP English & history, honors chemistry sophomore year, all APs senior year (French, English, Econ, Stats, Environmental Science).

ECs: these will seem very weak to you guys and that's the problem!
Tennis team 4 years, varsity level jr & sr year
Interact service club all 4 years (varsity letter junior year). Conference All-Academic Team
DECA marketing club soph. & junior year. Made it to national competition junior year.
BPA senior year--but no competitions are held until later.
French Club; French Honor Society
Our school has no NHS (go figure), but she was recognized as one of the district's "scholars."

She wants to major in International Studies, perhaps minoring in French.
She didn't take the SAT because the schools in which she was interested didn't require it. She's already in at U of I (Urbana) and has applied to DePauw in Indiana.

This sounds crass, but I've heard that it can be a factor at some schools. We won't be applying for financial aid.

My impression is that students who try for the elite schools have a huge list of ECs and it's therefore not worth the trouble applying to NU. She has always seemed busy enough and well-rounded enough to me. But we have some people now suggesting that she should at least try for NU and the much higher acceptance rate ED almost makes it seem worth her while. But I want to avoid undue pressure and stress over this. I know that a good essay would help her cause (and she definitely prefers writing & the humanities to math & science), but can this make up for limited ECs? Are these grades and ACT scores actually good enough? There'll be no time to take the SAT or the SAT IIs at this point.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

By Zcat18 (Zcat18) on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 08:02 pm: Edit

Hi. I'm a senior at NU an work as a counselor in the Office of Undergraduate Admission. I generally don't like to bring my work to this board, but I think I can offer you some insight (and calm your nerves a bit :-).

First of all, I would certainly encourage your daughter to apply ED. She is well within the top 10% of her class, and her ACT sits right at the mean for NU's entering class. Whoever told you that it is not worth her while to apply was mistaken. In fact, if she packages herself well and is not afraid to "sell" herself to the admission committee, I would venture to say that she has a fine shot to be admitted ED.

Her academics, as I mentioned, are all within the range that NU tends to accept. That, of course, doesn't automatically distinguish her from the crowd. As I tell many people in your position, the essays will make or break the application in this case. Your daughter should use this as an opportunity to brag a bit--to really market herself and why she can add to the NU community. The essays are the committee's way of gauging the creativity, desire, and drive of a particular candidate. Don't let your daughter sell herself short, and do encourage her to have fun, to be herself, and to really personalize these essays. Try and show them something that they haven't seen before, or at least, something that they rarely see.

Your daughter has the academics to be a successful ED applicant. The ECs are a bit weak, but successful ED applicants tend to have slightly weaker ECs than do those accepted RD (this is not by any means the rule, but often, ED applicants can get away with having a slightly weaker resume).

So the bottom line for your daughter is this: don't allow her to sell herself short or to come off unsure of herself in her application. You know she can shine, and this is her opportunity to do so. Don't worry so much about giving the committee what they want to hear, but instead, tell your daughter to focus on telling them what *she* wants them to hear, on what makes *her* right for NU.

Best of luck to you both, and please keep me informed as to how things turn out (counselor6@mail.ugadm.northwestern.edu).

By Frazzleddad (Frazzleddad) on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 09:40 pm: Edit

...what does NU consider a "good" SAT II score?

By Frazzleddad (Frazzleddad) on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 09:43 pm: Edit

...I've seen the mean scores for ACT, SAT, GPA and class rank, but not seen any numbers about the SATII's...

Thanks

By Stanfordnualum (Stanfordnualum) on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 02:14 am: Edit

My impression is that they are similar to SAT I -- 700 seems to be the dividing line between good and so-so. Somehow that's was how I felt when I took them (they were called "achievement tests" back then). It also depends on which school you apply to. I wouldn't want anthing below 700 on Math IIC if I were an engineering applicant; same goes with SAT II Writing if I were a Medill applicant. 750+ for all of them if you are applying for one of those honors programs such as HPME and ISP.

By Juliasmom (Juliasmom) on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 09:38 am: Edit

Zcat, thanks so much for your thoughtful advice and encouragement. I know that admissions officers must have a really tough time choosing among so many really outstanding applicants. I'm glad that they put so much weight on the essay and allow students to distinguish themselves by some means other than numbers and ECs. I've also read some of your other comments about the great experience that you've had at NU and this matters a lot to us. Getting in is only the first step--having a happy, productive, and well-adjusted life during those four years (and always, of course), is the ultimate goal. Thanks again!

By Newnudad (Newnudad) on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 03:45 pm: Edit

Juliasmom - Go for it! Our D just started at NU this year, and she also went to a suburban Chi HS - Your D's grades look good to me, and I think her ECs are plenty good enough. My D's class standing and EC's were a little stronger, but your D's ACT score is higher.

Wife and I like NU just as much as D. The smaller class size, better faculty/student ration and committed students made for a good fit for our D. If you decide on NU make sure you attend the Presidents soire on move-in day!

Good luck!

By Juliasmom (Juliasmom) on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 08:54 am: Edit

Thanks Newnudad. We're going to the Discover NU weekend in a couple of weeks to have a much closer look. We haven't been up to the campus in a while, plus this will give her the chance to meet some current students, which to me is the most important part of the process. I just wish that we had started seriously gathering information earlier! We had always thought that NU would be a good fit (as did she), but then kept hearing horror stories about the crazy competitiveness that seems to characterize the admissions scene these days. (Last year's Atlantic Monthly articles really psyched me out). It was only after getting some recent encouragement that I thought to put in the query on these message boards. The guidance counselor at her school is absolutely no help at all!

By Newnudad (Newnudad) on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 11:38 am: Edit

I understand exactly what you mean - our GC viewed her kids as numbers to be pushed through they system and out the door. My thought is that anyone at the upper or lower edge of the curve is treated the same as the middle of the curve, becasue thats what they are familiar with.

It's also why our D is at NU - UIUC has a good rep, especially in Eng, but the purpose of the all state schools is to educate as many residents of that state as possible.... an institutional mindset similar to GC's IMO.

Have fun at NU... is this the same weekend as Family Weekend? Oct 6-7-8?

By Juliasmom (Juliasmom) on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 04:31 pm: Edit

The Discover NU session that we are attending is October 17-18, but my D doesn't want to do the overnight. There's a tour, information sessions, and a dinner, so we should get as a good a sense of the campus identity as is possible in one day.

My feelings about Urbana fluctuate wildly. I had a great experience there as a grad student and I think that the undergrads were talented and harder-working than others I dealt with. But it is very easy to fall through the cracks and for the most part you go through four years with very little personal advice/attention. I tell my daughter that the professors are not paid to teach--they are paid to publish. Of course, the same is true for any research university, including NU. But it's smaller and easier to seek the attention of the profs. At the same time, the increased selectivity of UI in recent years means that you are in classes with some pretty good students, and if you put in the effort you can get a great education for a low price. The main problem for someone like my daughter is that there are few options between huge state universities and small, rural liberal arts schools. That's one reason why she has always been interested in NU. That part of the market is really underserved!