<B>Stats & Chances? THANK YOU</B>

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College Discussion Forums: Individual Schools: US News Top 25: University of Michigan - Ann Arbor: Stats & Chances? THANK YOU

By Shaka (Shaka) on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 02:26 am: Edit

my stats are at http://www.prstats.com/2009/display.php?user=jacen

how are my chances for LSA honors? THANK YOU

By Jrcho88 (Jrcho88) on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 02:33 am: Edit

Very nice stats Shaka!
As long as you apply during or before September, your chances are close to 100% in my opinion.

By Shaka (Shaka) on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 02:40 am: Edit

Thank you for your feedback!

I am planning to make the Feb 1st deadline...how does this rolling admissions thing work?

anyone else?

By Alexandre (Alexandre) on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 03:54 am: Edit

Be carefuly Shaka, you are out of state. 3.8 GPA with a top 10% rank and a 1420 SAT score are pretty much the norm for out of staters. If you apply after October, your chances of getting in will be average at best.

By Shaka (Shaka) on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 09:33 am: Edit

but if i were to wait until after october, my SAT will be higher (around 1500)

oh and my GPA should be 3.9 :-D i forgot to update it

By Alexandre (Alexandre) on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 02:18 pm: Edit

If you are 100% sure you are going to break the 1500 on your SAT, you can wait. However, if you aren't sure, you should not wait. As it stands, you are slightly above the mean for a non-resident applying to Michigan, so if your SAT does not improve and you apply after October, your chances will not be great. If you apply soon, you have a pretty decent shot at getting in. You could even qualify for the honor's program.

By Stuckat410 (Stuckat410) on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 05:13 pm: Edit

i don't know, i started a thread earlier asking those who were accepted to umich out of state, and there were people with stats much below yours... so if those people were telling the truth, i think you're in..

but that's just my opinion and i may be wrong- i don't know much about umich's admission policies and what not...

my two cents goodluck!

By Appliedmath (Appliedmath) on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 07:35 pm: Edit

You are in

By Appliedmath (Appliedmath) on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 07:35 pm: Edit

You are in

By Shaka (Shaka) on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 08:39 pm: Edit

well, i know i can get 800 in math if i can just stop making stupid mistakes...and i will probably improve 10-20 points on verbal. So I am pretty sure I can get over 1500.

why is it easier to get into umich before october?

By A2a2 (A2a2) on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 08:56 pm: Edit

I would not wait if I were you. Your SAT is above the average and Michigan doesn't care that much about SATs anyway. If you apply now, the worst thing that would happen is that they would defer you - and then you'd take the SAT and send in your score later anyway. But I think you can apply now and will find out you're accepted by early fall.

By Shaka (Shaka) on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 09:08 pm: Edit

ok...im still a little muddled with all this rolling admissions thing...please explain? if i were to apply in september...what would be the deadline then?

By Alexandre (Alexandre) on Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 12:56 am: Edit

STUCKAT: if you look closely at the thread you started, you would see that Shaka is actually very similar to the majority of the out of state students who got in.

8 students gave you their stats. 6 of them have similar stats to Shaka, and 2 have lower stats. Here's a recap of the 6 that are pretty much similar to Shaka:

Student 1) 3.9 unweighed GPA, graduated 6th in a class of 300 (top 2%) and 1280 on SAT. The SAT is lower, but the GPA and class rank is very good.

Student 2) 3.9 unweighed GPA, graduated 5th in class of 300 (top 2%) and 1430 SAT.

Student 3) 3.9 unweighed GPA, 1390 SAT.

Student 4) 3.6 unweighed GPA, 1540 SAT and eight 5s in AP exams. The GPA is lower, but the student came form a different system and his SAT and AP scores were good.

Student 5) 3.7 unweighed GPA and 1400 SAT.

Student 6) 3.9 unweighed GPA and 1440 SAT.

The mean for those 6 students was 3.82 unweighed GPA and 1410 SAT.

The other two have unusally low numbers by Michigan standards, even by in-state standards. One had a GPA of 3.0 with a 1340 SAT and the other had a 3.3 GPA with a 1280 SAT. But the acceptance rate for students with those numbers is actually below 10%. Usually, all the students, out of state or in-state, who get into Michigan with those types of scores fall into one or more of the following 5 categories:

1) Underreprsented minorities (African American, Hispanic and Latin Americans and Native American). In its attempt to foster diversity, Michigan has been known to show URM extreme linience. Unfortunately, this has not served URMs well since many are usually ill-qualified to keep up with Michigan's intense academic requirements. Asian and white students graduate at a rate of 90% whereas URM graduate at a rate of 70%.

2) Children of very generous alumni. I have met a couple of real dunces at Michigan and they admit that they got in because their parents gave Michigan a lot of money on an annual basis. This happens everywhere of course.

3) Students of elite high schools. Students who come from schools like St Paul or the Philips Academies are given special consideration because 1) a 3.0 GPA at such a school is actually quite decent and 2) those students have great connections. Also, by accepting students from those HS, Michigan improves its exposure on those elite HS campuses.

4) Applicants with an incredible background or special circumstances that make them highly appealing.

5) Applicants to the school of Nursing, Music, Art and Design, Kinesiology and Natural Resources and Environment. However, those students, especially in the schools of Kinesiology, Art and Music, are usually extremely gifted in other ways.

However, for the majority of out of state applicants, getting into Michigan with less than a 3.7 unweighed GPA and a 1300 on the SAT is very difficult.

By Alexandre (Alexandre) on Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 01:08 am: Edit

Shaka, rolling admissions are very simple. All it means is that students are considered as soon as their applications come in. A sort of "first come, first serve" system. At Michigan, most students apply very early (in September and October). As such, by late October, Michigan has filled much of its admissions needs. At that point, Michigan usually becomes extremely difficult to get into.

If you apply in September, given your grades and scores, you have a good chance of getting in by October. At that point, Michigan will ask you to think hard and get back to them by May 1. So even though Michigan's admission's process is early, they do not expect their accepted candidate to make a decision until other schools they have applied respond in April.

By Eccentricalfool (Eccentricalfool) on Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 01:17 am: Edit

What are my chances?
out of state

GPA: 3.5 unweighted--only academic courses the way they do it
SAT: 1300 (710m, 590v)
I'm retaking in oct. expecting low 1400s

SAT2: 680 chemistry(11th grade)
540 math1c(10th grade)
taking math2cand writing in nov.
estimate--mid 700s math and mid 600s
writing
Aps: 11th: chem, us history
12th: art history, calculus, bio, stat

Extracurriculars/Awards:
- 250+ hours community service at local nursing
home (9th-12th) 4 years
- Varsity Tennis(11th and will this year)
- Foreign Language Honors Society(9th-12th)
- Math team(9th-12th) 4 years
- Science Olympiad (10th) 1 year---cancelled
after because of school budget issues
- Israel Culture Club (11th-12th) 2 years
- National Honors Society (9th-12) 4 years
- Freshman Class 1 year
- SADD (11th-12th) 2 years
- I actually wrote an anti-smoking song a few
years ago. A music teacher loved it and asked
me to submit it to some competition...but I
never did. Should I? Or submit it with my
application? Is this a ridiculous question?
- Dormed and conducted research at a university
for the past two summers, participating in a
distinguished high school researching program
- Westinghouse semifinalist (team project as a
junior)
- Editor of a scientific journal
- My partner and I might get our paper published
in a journal
- LISC highest honors, nominated for state
science congress
- NYSSEF Finalist(NYS Science and Eng Fair)
- Participated in ISEF 2004
(International Science and Engineering Fair)
- I won numerous science research related
awards...to many, it isn't necessary to
mention them all
- This year I did not conduct research in a
team to avoid problems with intel
- I plan on sending in both last years and this
years paper with my applicaton
- If I'm a semifinalist in intel and/or
westinghouse this year would that help me
significantly? Should I wait until the results
of intel and westinghouse before I apply? Or
should I apply in september/october before I
retake the sat/sat2?

Essay:
- I should be able to write a solid essay about
a stuggle I overcame
-- I was physically abused as a child
-- My father contributes bare minimal
financially
-- Witnessed my father physically abuse my
stepmother(they're now divorced)
-- I live with my mom and stepfather(they
love me very much and are doing
everything they can to help me, so I am
very fortunate!)
-- A week before I took the math1c sat2 I
found out my brother (now 3 years old)
wasn't really my brother, my stepmother
was cheating on my father. This has had a
severe emotional affect on me...obviously
-- I suffer from vitiligo (skin pigment
loss)
-- I've been through lots of stress and
pressure over the past few year which can
explain my low gpa
-- This summer, with the help of family and
close friends I feel I have overcome an
inner struggle. I now realize that I
shouldn't blame myself for what has
happened. I feel have changed. I'm
beginning to feel relieved of stress.
Although my life hasn't been easy, I feel
it has made me a better person.
-- I want to show university of michigan
that I can accomplish anything I put my
mind to by having strong first semester
grades and sat scores

So what do you think?
When should I apply??
I plan on double majoring in physics and aeronautical engineering
Oh yeah and my dream is to become an astronaut�I think umich could aid me in that dream�hmm maybe I�ll incorporate that into my essay

By Eccentricalfool (Eccentricalfool) on Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 01:17 am: Edit

By Shaka (Shaka) on Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 01:18 am: Edit

you make very good points, alexandre...i think i will consider applying as early as possible. I am thinking of applying right when my october SAT results come out?

By Shaka (Shaka) on Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 01:18 am: Edit

you make very good points, alexandre...i think i will consider applying as early as possible. I am thinking of applying right when my october SAT results come out?

By Alexandre (Alexandre) on Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 01:46 am: Edit

Andrew, Michigan is a reach for you, but you do have a shot.

Andrew and Shaka, both of you are planning to redo your SATs in October. That does not mean you cannot apply in September. Send in your applications in late September and under the SAT section, put your current scores and also write the date of your next SAT. The application form makes provisions for that, so if they feel like you are definitely qualified with your current SAT, they will not bother waiting for your second SAT and reply before your second score arrives. In the event they feel you are borderline, they will simply hold off until they get your second SAT before replying, But you lose nothing by applying early.

Good luck to both of you.

By Candi1657 (Candi1657) on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 05:52 pm: Edit

"In its attempt to foster diversity, Michigan has been known to show URM extreme linience. Unfortunately, this has not served URMs well since many are usually ill-qualified to keep up with Michigan's intense academic requirements. Asian and white students graduate at a rate of 90% whereas URM graduate at a rate of 70%."

Alexandre, this simplistic/reductionist statement about lower URM graduation rates cannot be ignored. While it is certainly possible that some of them may be academically unprepared, you fail to mention factors like socio-economic background and the unfamiliarity and uncomfortability that can come when you are the minority on campus, but the majority in your high school, that definitely come into play with being a URM. Also, you manage to insult two groups of people when you state that a person accepted with lower stats must fit into a special category.

By Alexandre (Alexandre) on Thursday, September 02, 2004 - 12:40 am: Edit

Candi, my point is indeed simplistic, but it is nevertheless factual. Socio-economics do play a large role. Unfamiliarity and uncomfortability is not as big a problem, but it is also an issue. I would never deny that. But the overriding reason for the significantly lower graduation rate of URM is the fact that Michigan's (and many other universities') admissions committees show more linience to them. I am not making an observation about URM and their abilities. I am saying that Michigan, in an attempt to inflate its URM population, at times accepts students who may not be able to handle the Michigan courseload. As a percentage, there are as many white and Asian kids who cannot handle Michigan academics, but they are usually not admitted into the university.

As for your second charge, I do not insult anybody intentionally. First of all, I never said that students with lower scores "must" fit into a separate category. I say that they usually do. I was actually quite clear that students who fit in "other categories" are gifted in other ways. But Michigan's admissions apporach differs from most private universities in a fundamental way:

Each college has its own admissions committees and process. At Stanford or Princeton for example, all the students are accepted by the same adcom and only once at the university, do they chose a major. At Michigan you apply to the school of Engineering, or the college of LSA or the school of Music etc...And yes, each college has its own expectations. The school of Art expects incredible art portfolios. Whether a student has a 3.0 GPA and a 1000 on her/his SAT or a 4.0 and a 1500 on her/his SAT does not really matter to them. Same with the school of Music. Only the most gifted musicians can get into the school of music, regardless of their academic history. Michigan's school of Music and Art are both ranked in the top 10, so obviously, they are doing something right. But it is also a fact that the average GPA and SAT/ACT scores of students enrolled in those colleges are significantly lower than the students entering the school of Engineering or the college of LSA.

If I offended anyone, I apologize.

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