Click here to go to the NEW College Discussion Forum

Are there any efforts underway to fight the extortive textbook practices seen on the modern campus, and especially Berkeley? Compared with other institutions I've attended, Berkeley seems to love requiring custom bundles, the absolute-most-latest edition, or even (god forbid) custom printed editions of books. With custom bundles, the teacher willy-nilly decides that he's going to require some fubar supplement that they may or may not ever use (which, of course, we won't be able to learn until far too late and fear of being 'behind' has forced us into acquiescing to such eccentricity). With custom editions, the teachers seem to think they're doing us a favor by ordering entirely UCB/class-specific printings of common textbooks, with maybe a chapter re-ordered or another chapter absent. Or, perhaps even more sinister, with the edition-du-jour publishers are now releasing new editions with no substantive changes other than a couple modified exercises and some content reorganization - and, of course, the professors always want to have the latest, so they bite and require it.

All three extortive practices force us to a) buy our books from the Berkeley store, b) limit the resale prices we can get for our used books (since the editions are custom or already out-of-date), and c) almost always require us to buy 'new' books. Using online book sites, such as Half.com, seems to yield less than a 50% success rate for even close approximations to what the professors require. I've never spent more money on books in a given term than at Berkeley, and although the publishers are certainly partially to blame, the professors are the most responsible. With few exceptions for the sciences, we do not need a 2004 edition book when the last edition was 2002; we do not need a "Homework Supplement for Prime Numbered Problems"; we do NOT need "Berkeley's custom printing of General Psychology - Because We Obviously Know Better The Right Chapter Order". When students are forced to spend $600+ a term on books, with tuition rates also constantly rising, something is wrong.

In the past, I had heard the Berkeley was trying to fight against some of the publishing practices leading to persistent updates, but there has to be a student advocacy group or program fighting to expand this to the broader problems associated with textbook costs?

By Esun (Esun) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 03:31 am: Edit

I completely agree. But honestly, it's one of those things you just have to live with IMO. Suck it up, pay up, and that's about it. Heck, this is my first semester, and I've taken classes before that use very similar textbooks to the classes I've enrolled in.

For example, Math 54 uses Elementary Differential Equations and Boundary Value problems by Boyce and Diprima. I have that book, bought for an Elementary Differential Equations class I took--but the 6th edition. Required is the 8th edition, so there goes $100.

Physics H7B requires two books and has three optional books. Two of those optional books I have, but not the required ones. So, I have to suck it up and pay another $60-80 a piece. I personally don't believe there is much we as students can do about it, because people want to make money, and we're being forced to give it to them.

By Eliteconnect (Eliteconnect) on Sunday, August 29, 2004 - 06:45 pm: Edit

Berkeley is TERRIBLE when it comes to creating reading lists/required text lists for its undergrad classes. The required text lists ONLY include the latest edition of the book...which is completely worthless because the previous edition would've been perfectly fine. The previous edition is cheaper, contains the same information...because in all probability, there has not been a new, scientific breakthrough on the level of Watson/Crick in the past 2 years...yet, professors still insist on the new editions which contains some worthless CD-ROM which the course does not even use. For humanities, the students are doubly gouged because the bookstore doesn't even carry "used" copies of books since professors are constantly changing around the reading lits to include books that were never previously assigned...to make things worse, professors will assign 10 paperbacks (many of which can't be purchased at "used" rates) and a course reader from Copy Central...Copy Central makes a KILLING from these readers because a reader that costs fifty cents to produce will be sold at $15...a reader that costs $3 to produce will be sold at $60. Students in the sciences are also bent over the table...because you have to purchase the lab manual in addition to the textbook AND solutions guide. Reason #327497899322347983 to dislike this university.

By Cornellgrad02 (Cornellgrad02) on Sunday, August 29, 2004 - 06:51 pm: Edit

relax folks...it's like this at many many schools...I had the same problem at Cornell...the extortion comes from the top (the publishers) and trickles down...

just my 2 cents
cornellgrad02

By Kryptic (Kryptic) on Sunday, August 29, 2004 - 07:11 pm: Edit

It's like this at many universities, but not all. Some institutes aren't edition-whores, they don't insist on the latest edition when a previous one is completely sufficient. Some universities don't insist on 'custom printings', when standard ones are fine. I never had the same out-of-pocket expenses at Portland State University, Oregon Institute of Technology, City College of San Francisco, or Portland Community College. (I've a lot of schools under my belt) You may argue that these places aren't the calibre of Berkeley, and you'd be right - that's why I transferred, but for many classes what Berkeley does simply does not add any extra value. Is the 8th edition of Boyce and Diprima's Differential Equations and BVP *really* going to do much more for us than the 7th edition, published just two years ago? Have there been fantastic new discoveries in undergraduate linear algebra or diffeq? I doubt it, I seriously doubt it.

The State of California is pushing forward with some legislation to fight some of the publisher-driven costs that keep inflating, but until teacher's care about being reasonable with the costs they impose, the problem won't be solved. Berkeley can argue that the problem is that the publisher is releasing too many new editions, but no one is forcing them to require these new editions.

By Cornellgrad02 (Cornellgrad02) on Sunday, August 29, 2004 - 09:55 pm: Edit

I totally agree with you, that's why I would buy used at Neds on bancroft. They may tell you that the 8th edition is required, but you'll survive with the 7th (or 6th or whatever). Furthermore, I never had a class that didn't put the course book on reserve in the library, and for large courses, make a number of copies available. You may argue that having to go to moffett three times a week is a pain, but if money is that much of an issue for you, well then. Lastly, your point about the california pursuing some of these publishers is right on and it's not just California. Harvard and Cornell have recently threatened to cut ties to a number of publishing companies over rising journal costs. In actuallity, it's only a few publishing companies that print and distribute the vast majority of journals so they totally screw people. Granted, I agree that sometimes the required readers are a total pain...but for most "required" text books...every school buys the new edition for the book stores...but you can still use the previous edition and oftentimes, the professor will be kind enough to even tell you where they differ...alright...I know it's a pain and I don't want to sound like I'm totally defending the universities rampant money grab...I'm only trying to suggest some ways you can get around it...from experience of course.

cheers,
cornellgrad02

By Qwerasdf (Qwerasdf) on Sunday, August 29, 2004 - 11:30 pm: Edit

Just get the Stewart Calculus fat book which covrers 1A, 1B, 53, 54... =)

By Esun (Esun) on Thursday, September 02, 2004 - 01:12 am: Edit

One of my teachers made a crack about that recently. He was saying how some author was particularly bad in that they release a new edition every year, and all they do it change the page numbers. That about sums it up for me.