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OK, first question that I want to clear up: If my Dad went to Stanford as a graduate student, does that count as legacy for me applying as an undergrad? If so, does it really help applying EA? Thanks.

By Patient (Patient) on Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 11:03 pm: Edit

Yes, and yes.

By Thejuiceisback (Thejuiceisback) on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 12:15 am: Edit

Thanks, Patient, but I'd just like to know how you know that because I didn't find any information on that topic. Thanks.

By Voodoochile (Voodoochile) on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 05:35 am: Edit

"If my Dad went to Stanford as a graduate student, does that count as legacy for me applying as an undergrad?"

I don't think anyone but the adcom can give you a real answer to this question. My guess would be yes, but not as much as if your dad had went to Stanford undergrad.

"does it really help applying EA?"

I don't think so. However, Stanford rarely *rejects* EA legacies. They are normally deferred, which probably counts as a 'polite' form of rejection.

By Patient (Patient) on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 11:03 am: Edit

Thejuiceisback...I have a graduate degree from Stanford (undergrad from Harvard). I already knew from various sources that Stanford does count a graduate from any of its programs, undergrad or graduate, as alumni for "legacy" purposes. Stanford by the way is somewhat unusual I believe. I think that many colleges only give legacy status to undergrad degree parents (I read that in A is for Admission)

Son applied early action (was admitted). All alumni parents of applicants received a letter acknowledging the application, recognizing the difficulty of admission, and specifically stating that the admit rate for children of alums is approximately twice that of non-legacy applicants (I believe the numbers were 12 and 24 percent respectively).

I have heard it theorized that the legacy status helps more in the EA pool than in the regular applicant pool, but I do not know that for sure.

Hope that helps.

By Thejuiceisback (Thejuiceisback) on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 03:28 pm: Edit

Thanks a lot everyone, I feel a lot better now that I know for sure.

By Chrisq (Chrisq) on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 06:21 pm: Edit

While we're on the topic, can any of you Stanford legacies (or parents) name a single justifiable reason for the preferential admissions treatment you are granted (albeit it slight)? I'm a non-legacy admit to Stanford, Harvard, and Yale, and all of these schools have long histories of preferential treatment to legacy applicants. I think it's a joke, and I know it's only the money incentive that keeps Stanford (and other schools) doing it. To me, it just seems completely unjustifiable and counter to Stanford's ideals of equality. I understand the advantage is very slight for legacies, but it doesn't change the fact that the application has the infamous checkboxes, and it simply shouldn't.

This link does a better job than me of explaining some of the problems with legacy policies.

By Hoosfun (Hoosfun) on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 06:34 pm: Edit

I was a legacy admit for the '07 class and I knew that legacy played at least some role in my admission. I don't agree with legacy policies for the most part but they're a fact of life for the simple reasons of donations and alumni involvement.

Legacy families, I'm willing to bet, donate at a higher rate than those who aren't legacies and are more involved in alumni activities. I don't know how things were this year since I'm not in the area anymore, but I remember the 2007 minority admit proportion was like 51%. Considering that's not exactly representative of the applicant pool, I'd say that too is unjustifiable and "counter to Stanford's ideals of equality"; but I'm sure that's a discussion for another day.

That said, you still need to have the goods to get in.

The high school I went to sent 4 people each to Harvard, Princeton and Yale my year. Only one of those was a non-minority legacy. Of the more than 20 admitted to Stanford I'd be willing to guess that 95% had an affiliation, if not legacy, at Stanford. Sure says something...

By Masterchris (Masterchris) on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 06:41 pm: Edit

Well if the students and school have more resources because of having a happy donating alumni groups, than it is worth it.

By Chrisq (Chrisq) on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 06:56 pm: Edit

Masterchris:

Preferential treatment for a certain group (here, legacy applicants) necessarily excludes other people from enjoying the benefits of the donations you speak of. So, by your logic, preferential treatment for legacies is indeed "worth it" - but it's only worth it for the people who actually attend the institution, so your argument doesn't address the real problem.

By Hoosfun (Hoosfun) on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 07:11 pm: Edit

Chrisg:

As I said, I'm not a big fan of legacy, but I think you really should look at the number of admits who are legacies at the top institutions. I know for a fact that Princeton's (parental) legacy rate is something hovering under 10%; considering these candidates we're already likely near the top of the long list of applicants, I really don't find this so unreasonable especially given the significant advantage it presents all the students at the University... including the 90% non-legacy...

By Sakky (Sakky) on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 07:49 pm: Edit

Chrisq, I'm not really defending legacies, as I don't really like them either. But one plausible tack is that the amount of extra donations that are earned via the legacy program is enough to expand not only the academic resourcs but also possibly the class size thereby allowing other people who would never have gotten into a school to now get in and enjoy a better education. Looked at in that light, legacies can indeed be 'worth it' in the sense that all the non-legacies also benefit not only because those who get in get a better education, but that there may be more admissions spots to go around. Harvard Business School, for example, has the largest enrollment of any business-school in the world, and that's precisely because HBS was able to greatly expand its offerings through generous alumni/legacy donations. Therefore one could say that a lot of non-legacy HBS students would never have gotten in had the legacy program not existed.

By Cacollegegirl (Cacollegegirl) on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 10:28 pm: Edit

While we are on the subject, are you given any extra consideration if both your grandfather (BS and Med school grad) and great-grandmother (BA and MA) went to Stanford? Neither of my parents graduated from college.

By Thejuiceisback (Thejuiceisback) on Saturday, July 03, 2004 - 12:46 am: Edit

Usually it's just parents. Grandparents, uncles, aunts, cousins and I think even brothers and sisters don't count.

By Patient (Patient) on Saturday, July 03, 2004 - 03:07 am: Edit

That's correct--only parents' affiliation with the college counts. I don't disagree with the posts about the legacy affiliation--it is a difficult topic and I know that some schools have ceased giving preference to legacies. I was answering the original question not approving or disapproving of it.

It would be interesting to know the absolute number of legacy admits in a given class--I suspect it is small but am not sure--and how their profiles compare with nonlegacy admits. By the way, there were a couple of applicants who had legacy connections who were not admitted from son's class--again I know of two anecdotally, but do not know the total applicant pool results. Remember that 3 out of 4 are still rejected.

By Masterchris (Masterchris) on Saturday, July 03, 2004 - 04:32 pm: Edit

If you are an alumni, you will be more compelled to give a large donation if you know that the school wants to maintain a strong happy alumni. The donations make it possible for more resourses, more scholerships, and a better overall school.

By Afrelin1 (Afrelin1) on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 11:10 pm: Edit

Both of my parents and my uncle went to Stanford for undergrad and my mom went to med school there as well. I applied regular review and was waitlisted.

Then rejected.

By Bunmushroom (Bunmushroom) on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 01:57 am: Edit

Legacy alone is not such a big factor unless one is a big donor. It is if 2 applicants are basicly equal, the legacy will be the straw that can tip the scales.