Click here to go to the NEW College Discussion Forum

I hear they "try" and make sure the Fres. have a room,bot after that,you are in a lottery. 20% of the students who want to live oo campus cant!!!!I thought that is what "small"Campus was all about!!!! They assign you a "college" or dorm when you start, and you cannot change "colleges" so you can get this small family feeling,until you are kicked out soph. yr. ex."Wiess College denied housing to all 56 soph who applied" (Rice newspaper) I have got the trustee scholarship for Arch. and do not feel like walking to an apt. at 2am!!! I know they have shuttles,but who wants to do that? This is a big surprize to me. Sounds like a large U to me. Present Rice students please comment on this. With a huge endowment,why dont they correct this? This defeat their whole small school purpose. Do you students not mind this?

By Nick13 (Nick13) on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 06:39 pm: Edit

By the way, this does not include the students who want to be off campus. This is just people who would like to stay on campus. 227 students were forced off campus after lottery for 2002-2003yr. http//thresher.rice.edu/article.tcl?articleid=1287

By Abz1986 (Abz1986) on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 08:04 pm: Edit

Yeah that does suck, I heard from somewhere they're trying to correct that problem though... correct me if I'm wrong. I'm talking out of my ass 1/2 the time

Living off campus does have major advantages though, I'm planning to live off campus junior and senior year... for one you don't have to pay a ridiculus amount of money (like enough to get you a condo) to share a closet with someone else...

By Chermiel (Chermiel) on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 09:21 pm: Edit

hmm well freshmen as such get on campus definately...but yes, sophomore and juniors may be kicked off. However, if u are kicked off one yr, ur garunteed the rest. It depends on which college ur at. My college kicked out 8 girls and 8 guys , and may take some back, and it kicks off only sophomores, so if u luck out and get on campus sophomore yr ur through. Similarly, each college decides which yr is its target. Mines Sid rich. again, depends on the colelge. Lovett has empty rooms, so it kicks no one off. Wiess, im not too sure. Ive also heard that if u whine enough u can get a bed, but might be shifted colleges. Dont know anyone who's realy done that though. Atheletes i think are garunteed.
however, off isnt too bad especially with the light rail (if u wanna move a bit far) and with the apartment complexes really close by to Rice.

By Kjofkw (Kjofkw) on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 10:58 pm: Edit

I couldn't get to the link...Is this a problem for next year's Sophomores? I thought they just added a brand new college to remedy this problem. No?

By Nick13 (Nick13) on Friday, April 16, 2004 - 02:31 pm: Edit

Yes, they just built a new college and students are already in it. It use to be worse than it is now.

By Scetoaux (Scetoaux) on Friday, April 16, 2004 - 02:56 pm: Edit

"Martel is not a college." -common refrain of non-Martel people.

Actually I think its a good quality of Rice that most people WANT to stay on campus for all four years, even though thats not always possible.

Are they planning to build another new college? I think theres some open space to the west of sid rich and Hanszen.

By Cybernetica (Cybernetica) on Saturday, April 17, 2004 - 01:27 am: Edit

Left Owl weekend early because I am going to Amherst tommorow....To answer your question, There are only like a handful of colleges (weiss is one) that "kick" a few studentsw off for one year (either sophomore or junior, depending on college) either voluntarily or by random lottery.

Honestly, I think you are making this a much bigger deal than it really is, and - if you get the chance to go around the rice neighboorhood (i.e. in the area but outside the campus) - you will see how ridiculously safe and insulated you are from crime, etc. If you are drunk at 4am walking out of campus your biggest risk is yourself really...if you get a citation or an arrest say for being a nuisance, or if you should wonder into one of the nicer residential neighboorhoods near Rice and knock on a a scared gun-owning Texan's formidable home (you'd still have to be particularly unlucky to meet this type around Rice...thought I won't claim they don't exist).

Rice is also pretty damn small, as colleges of its facilities go, though obviously it doesn't take the prize for say the biggest endowment per undergrad ratio or anything in the US.

All that said, this weekend, I was simply blown away by the quality of living in Rice dorms...right the hell out of the water. Living a fairly comfortable life and after years of hearing how unsuccessful and "spoilt" I would seem living in the "real world"...I just couldn't help but be aghast. Granted, they put me in Martel, and there it's not likely that I will be randomly selected for it at the second pick (i.e. for freshman-senior year if I enroll), but I'll just tell some of what I saw:

-Highspeed Wifi Access Abundance (in rooms of those that requested it, in the common sitting area, etc)

-Ridiculously Highspeed Ethernet Connections in every room (though of course most colleges have these, these days)

-Extended cable television in everyroom WITH premium cable (i.e. all the HBO channells, Showtime channels etc) in most of the ones I went into, including that of my host's.

-A gargantuan big screen tv with dvd players and a kick a speaker system (even if not a true surround sound 6.1) in the basement of the college that was always unused AND

-ANOTHER gargantuan big screen TV, dvd player, etc, and a true 6.1 set up in the guy's room below ours who kept it basically open door the whole day for anyone to come in and use (unless they were sleeping or really wanting to watch something..in the later case you just couldn't change the channel), and basically converted his room in a free-for-all lounge area (in microcosm of course) after 8:00 each night.

-TONS of single rooms in Martel, that even if you don't get randomly assigned to freshman year, you can 99% pick for yourself 10th and above, as well as suites that really were not bad at all and quite small

-Martel DOES guarantee all 4 years, btw (to my knowledge)

-A cleaning service that comes twice a week to sanitize the rooms, and - in the case of some who have charmed the cleanign service with their spanish knowledge - literally every day.

Most of all, as you won't really understand until you spend a few days in the midst of the campus as its own live, thronging entity...PEOPLE ARE NOT UPTIGHT OR ANXIOUS AT ALL

Maybe you don't appreciate this yet, but it makes any living situation 1000 times easier...no idiot RAs punishing students for messy rooms because they are "fire hazards"...student's so ridiculously non-competitive that I saw one literally doing another's chem lab (this was AN UPPER LEVEL COURSE) for her TELLING her what to write since she has been out for the past week (try THAT at HYP), hardcore partiers / athletes / or greek-life "esques" who invite and befriend even the most "bookish" or "nerdy" in their college with literally open arms to just about any social gathering they have.

In short, the typical bs of most education at the hs and undergrad levels: elitism, popularity crap, academic competitiveness, and rule mongering - was virtually non-existent. I certainly met highly intense people (as well as some who were just jerks) but they were overwhelmingly in the minority to a college that I think has quite a unique student zeitgist for its general stature among academicians.

And that sentiment of genuine openness and tranquility, to me, is what really makes a "small" college - well, "small."

It is also why I highly doubt you will feel alienated much from the Rice community by living off campus.

(If it's a financial issue, of course, you should call the aid office.)

Best of luck,
S

By Scetoaux (Scetoaux) on Saturday, April 17, 2004 - 01:26 pm: Edit

"Rice is also pretty damn small, as colleges of its facilities go, though obviously it doesn't take the prize for say the biggest endowment per undergrad ratio or anything in the US."

Actually, I think Rice has the second or third highest endowment per undergrad in the US after Yale and someone else.

I'll go look that up again.

By Scetoaux (Scetoaux) on Saturday, April 17, 2004 - 01:32 pm: Edit

oops:

"Rice ranked fifth in 2003 for private research universities in amount of endowment assets (more than $640,500) per full-time equivalent (FTE) student (according to FY03 numbers). The market value for Rice’s endowment was $2.94 billion as of June 30, 2003."

http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~instresr/ricefacts/financial.html

By Kjofkw (Kjofkw) on Sunday, April 18, 2004 - 01:16 am: Edit

How are you assigned colleges at Rice? First come first served? Totally random? Can you state any preference? If so, it would seem prudent to find the dorms that usually have continued openings. (And they are...???). OR does this rotate yearly? Any suggestions on selections (if even possible)for other characteristics or benefits? It's premature for my s., as he has not yet decided on Rice. But he's down to 2 choices, and because time is so tight, I thought it wise to ask now while this thread is still up toward the top.

By Anxiousmom (Anxiousmom) on Sunday, April 18, 2004 - 08:32 am: Edit

Assigned totally randomly unless you are a relative of a rice alum - and then you can request to be in same college as your alum relative - OR request to NOT be in same college as your alum relative. All else are assigned by Rice. I talked to several admins at Rice about housing, and they were very helpful. I told them that I really did NOT want my kid living off campus, and was told some strategies my kid could follow (i.e. room with an older student, serve as a college officer) to stay on campus. Lady said that anyone who REALLY wants to stay on campus can usually work it out - but usually kids who think they will not get housing opt instead to "jump" on the primo apartments etc. rather than waiting to see if they'll get off the waitlist for oncampus housing. ALL freshman are guarenteed oncampus housing. Some kids live offcampus one year then find they actually prefer it and stay off campus. There are a lot of places available nearby. I'm no longer worried about it. I suggest you talk to someone in housing about your concerns, and they can ease your mind a little bit.

By Kjofkw (Kjofkw) on Sunday, April 18, 2004 - 09:16 am: Edit

That's interesting...that you can request the same college as an alum. My s. is the relative of 2 alums! Baker was one of the colleges. I don't know the other.
Anyone know anything about the personality of Baker? ( and especially about being kicked off Soph. yr?) Looks small, but I sure like the "looks" better than new Weiss!

By Amandagail (Amandagail) on Sunday, April 18, 2004 - 10:52 am: Edit

The colleges all have different personalities. If I end up at Rice, I will be living in Hanzen, even though it's not the nicest dorm, because I hear scary things about the social life elsewhere on campus. The general feeling I have picked up is that you don't want to live in Martel unless you are absolutely desperate for a newer, nicer room because nobody else likes them. It's unfortunate because I am sure they are all nice kids. I have been told that all the dorms on that side of campus (Martel, Jones, Brown) have a similar reputation, and that Baker, Hanzen, Weiss, Sid Rich, Will Rice, and Lovett have better social atmospheres. Particularly Hanzen, Baker, and Wiess, but my sources are undoubtebly biased. New Wiess seems so isolated to me, though, since there are not any hallways shared by the rooms, just outside walkways. I have also been told that Baker kids get kicked off of campus for space issues most often. Hope this helps.

By Batpantsdance (Batpantsdance) on Sunday, April 18, 2004 - 03:10 pm: Edit

I just wanted to reply to the person who said Lovett had extra rooms. Yeeeeah, it doesn't. My host for Owl Weekend was at Lovett - she lived off campus, and is only a sophomore. She said (almost) everyone at Lovett gets kicked off their sophmore year, or at least one year while they're at Rice.

By Pat57575 (Pat57575) on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 06:06 pm: Edit

As a fish at Lovett, I'll clear this up. Quite amusingly, Lovett has made a game out of getting booted... we call it "Room Jack". Toward the end of the academic year, everyone is told to form a suite of four people, all of whom must be upcoming sophomores, juniors, and seniors (all freshmen live together and are gauranteed housing). Every sophomore in the group earns 1 suite point, juniors 2 pts, and seniors 3 pts. After all the suites have been turned in, they are separated by point value, and then... the Jack. All suites of 12 points draw cards out of a deck, and the suite with the highest card gets first dibs, then 11 pt suites draw and choose, and so on. Finally, the 4 pt suites draw cards for the 3 or 4 remaining rooms while the upperclassmen kick back and enjoy the show.

If worst comes to worst, OC living in the area really isn't bad.

As Amandagail said, Martel and the north colleges have pretty nice facilities, but (this is coming from a biased Lovetteer) the social scene isn't so hot. In addition, everyone has full access to all colleges, including commons, serveries, recreational facilites, etc, so the only real advantage is the living space. Will Rice, Lovett, Baker, and Sid have a pleasant togetherness about them, but each has its own characteristic blemishes as well. For example, Will Rice has no party scene, Lovett's exterior architecture isn't breathtaking, Sid doesn't have enough washing machines, etc... Weiss and Hanszen are both pretty nice, but on the downside they form a major hub for south colleges at dinner time, as they host the south servery, and as a result their local identities suffer some.

By Chermiel (Chermiel) on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 06:29 pm: Edit

my bad... sorry bout that, some of us were under the impression lovett has empty rooms..should be cleared up tho..

in any case, its not that no body likes martel kids, in class and stuff we all work toghether just fine, its just the ppl who u live with tend to be closer togheter..and martel being the newest college gets taunted/teased a lot...

By Chermiel (Chermiel) on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 06:32 pm: Edit

initially martel had a reputation like that, but that was because when it was first formed, students from other colleges *volunteered* to go to martel, cuz they didnt really get on/like with thier own college, or just wanted bigger rooms. But now new students are assigned to martel, so its not really like that anymore.

By Chermiel (Chermiel) on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 06:35 pm: Edit

And for the person who asked about rotations.no there arent any..ur in a single college all four years .... ur college is like your home.. in fact you find a binding loyalty to it most of the time even as u enter... you'll see what i mean during orentation week if u end up at Rice

By Kjofkw (Kjofkw) on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 08:41 pm: Edit

Nick13 (the OP) listed some published statistics about the number of students forced to live off campus, but other posters indicate the numbers or the experiences are not that bad. I assume it varies by college. I called Rice (Admissions and Student Affairs) today to verify if the chances of it happening were great or small. I thought I asked a simple question: How many students are typically kicked off campus who want to live on campus? I ended upset with the run-around I felt I received!

Like the Architecture majors, I know my s. is a night owl (no pun intended), who will not have a car. I do not think it wise to live off campus and walk or bike home to wherever at 3 am in Houston. If I had a daughter, I would be even more concerned. Nor do I like the idea of finding a furnished apartment, or furnishing one only for one year, or of making a year's lease for 9 months of use.

Would it make a difference in his decision to attend Rice? Depends on the chances. If the numbers are small, he may take that chance. If 20% of the students are forced off, he may think twice. It will be one of the many factors used to make his final decision.

I was upset that I found out about this problem from CC. (THANK YOU posters on CC). I felt it should be upfront in the college literature. They DO say that 80% live on campus, but that is not atypical for a college. They DO say housing is not guaranteed. I was surprised by the high original numbers, however.

No one at Rice was able or willing to give me an answer! Not even approximate numbers. These are responses I was given (not direct quotes):
1. We're not hiding anything. We would have told you there was a problem IF YOU ASKED.
2. We don't have any statistics to know how many students want housing and cannot stay on campus.
(I found that odd. Students sign up to return, and lose the lottery (or points or whatever). It would be simple to do a headcount each year. The person who wrote the article must have found the statistics somewhere.
3. It varies every year. Some colleges, some years have NO room for ANY Sophomores. Some colleges kick out their Senior students. It depends on the college. (I asked if the number varied considerably from year to year, and they said no. Then I asked if they knew it was relatively stable, what would an approximation of the numbers be? 2%? 20%? They would not say.
4. We cannot guarantee ANYONE housing.
5. Only you can determine if it is important to you (which is why I was asking for the numbers). The numbers are not significant if your s. happens to be the unlucky one.

I was upset for the following reasons:
1. I felt I was given vague excuses. I found this odd for a school that can rattle off the average SAT score, the average income, etc.
2. If truly no one has looked into this issue at Rice, that tells me they are not looking out for the needs or desires of their students.
3. No one even attempted to explain what happens to those students who cannot return, to help alleviate my concerns. Does Rice help students? Do they basically leave them on their own?

This (in combination with the very poor attitude we have received from the financial aid office, implies that Rice is not interested in working with the families and students. Rather, I get the feeling that Rice thinks one should feel privileged to have even been selected by Rice.

As a parent, I have not been pleased with the "customer relations" at Riceso far. Unfortunately my s. really likes Rice, and I'm hesitant to complain to him for fear it will sour his positive outlook.

Current Rice Students: PLEASE tell me this type of service is the exception rather than the rule!

By Scetoaux (Scetoaux) on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 09:45 pm: Edit

Well, I'm going there next fall, and the lady at the admissions office is super nice. I think she recognizes me after just 3 visits. Overall I wouldn't say that they try to hide stuff from you.

The impression I got was that about 3/4 of the students are on campus each year. Some sophomores or juniors have to live somewhere else for a year. Some people live off campus of their own volition. I take this to mean that a lucky few are able to stay all 4 years if they want.

By Wobudong (Wobudong) on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 10:46 pm: Edit

KJ: I don't know if this will be of much help, but the masters of each college might be able to provide more specific information. My son is in a college where only juniors are in the housing lottery and the majority are provided housing in the college. Perhaps by junior year a few more students are interested in exploring off campus options, which are plentiful and close. I suspect that the reluctance to provide numbers is a result of recent uncertainty about yield. In the past two to three years, Rice has been discovered by the HYP crowd, particularly in the Northeast. A number of students who are accepted at Rice ID chose to await not only their HYP decisions but also the result of financial aid at those 42k per year schools. If they either do not win the HYP lottery or do not receive substantial grants, Rice is likely to become their top choice. In a class of only 700, a very slight increase in yield could change the availability of housing in the near term. In short, I think that the people that you talked to might have been evasive because they do not know the answer. Having put two other children through similar schools, I can state with a high level of confidence that you will not find anyone in academia who knows how to say "I'm sorry but I just don't know."

On the brighter side, from our experience thus far your son's instincts are on the money. My son also declined a full scholarship at Case Western, as well as other colleges, and he is delighted with his decision. I can't even understand the language in his math and science courses, but he is very happy at Rice and seems to be absorbing it all. He is working harder than he ever imagined, but that seems to be part of the culture.

By Kjofkw (Kjofkw) on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 - 12:06 am: Edit

Thanks Wobudong. It's just not looking great for Rice right now. Makes me VERY sad (I'm an alum).

Off topic, but I just found out this evening that Rice has phased out its Tuition Index Policy for the class entering 2004. One (of many)Rice attractions was I felt they tried to keep costs down. The tuition rates (everywhere I know) have skyrocketed. Up until last year, Rice promised once you entered, tuition would not increase faster than the CPI. Your son timed it well Wobudong! I believe, the last info. session we attended still mentioned it. No longer. Didn't know that! The entering class will be subject to the same skyrocketing costs (if not more to make up for lost time?). He did receive a scholarship at Rice, but it is fixed and at these rates will be totally wiped out in a few years.

I think Case is out, but CMU, on the otherhand came through with additional help. And, his scholarship at CMU is tied to tuition (it goes up as tuition goes up). The SCS department is WAAAY up there. The department, however, is bigger than my s. wanted, almost intimidating to him. He plans to visit this weekend for one final look. We'll see what happens.

It just seems like I keep hitting some major stumbling blocks w/ Rice. Some might see that as a "sign". I just get frustrated ;)

I just can't seem to justify Rice, or feel comfortable w/ that choice, no matter how hard I try. My s. seems oblivious to it all. I so wanted to be comfortable w/ his choice, and it is not looking that way.

By Anxiousmom (Anxiousmom) on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 - 07:46 am: Edit

I'm thinking of calling or writing to the admin offices because of our less-than-friendly experiences with admissions office; but the actually university is still stellar and friendly and welcoming. I talked to someone in the "office of academic advising" about off-campus housing. Since Rice has this situation every year with kids living off-campus the kids get advice (and/or they rent) appartments that last year's booted-off-campus kids rented. Once your kid is actually oncampus it's much easier for them to arrange this - and they find out that they don't have housing early enough to find a place for the next year.
I also was turned off by the admin. with this school and dd almost did not apply - but now we are glad she did, and I will let admin know about concerns w/these issues.

By Wlrsqtr (Wlrsqtr) on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 - 09:57 am: Edit

Okay D wants to go to Rice which was a safety and is far away (we do at least have close family who now live in Texas). She has no issues with moving off campus for a year based on her discussions with students. She is convinced she will make friends easily (she usualy does) and get an apartment with close friends. Anyway she probably will spend a term abroad. D got into both her matches (Duke and Dartmouth)with likely letters but no $ and all of her safeties and got ton of merit $ from JHU, UMICH, Wash U and our state school (a top 50). Rice (with scholarship) will cost more than all but D&D. I can't figure out where we stand on $. She got so much more merit $ from JHU and Michigan (and free ride instate). I can't figure out where I stand on the $. We have very up and down incomes and I just retired/ left while a good offer was on the table. But we are downsizing our costs and we might be able to afford D&D which have so much more name recognition/presteige here in the east. But she really loves Rice and wants to go there. So maybe there is no decision for me to make.

By Ulaia (Ulaia) on Wednesday, April 21, 2004 - 11:34 pm: Edit

Kjofkw, I totally understand your concern. I live in the Houston area (a.k.a. suburbs) and know just a bit more about Rice than an average person. A while back, my friend drove all the way down to the campus just to pick up an application packet and had to wait 45 minutes for the lady to finish her conversation and then got the package thrown at his face. I've called down to the admissions office a couple times myself and like everyone else here, didn't get a pleasant response. HOWEVER, I did attend Owl Weekend and trust me, they were EXTREMELY nice and easygoing. Everyone I came into contact with (students, alum, faculty) all tried to convince me to attend. So, the point is, forget the Office of Admissions. As a matter of fact, I know that 9 times out of 10 the people at those admissions offices are either clueless or flat out mean. Just ask HYPSM, CalTech, Berkeley, and UT Austin. Don't make any decisions on their attitude. Personally, I even got a call from the Dean of Admissions at Rice trying to convince me to go.

By Kjofkw (Kjofkw) on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 09:55 pm: Edit

Well, I had to call the admissions office again. What a difference! I must have gotten the first person on a VERY bad day...The guy I talked to the second time bent over backwards to answer my questions. So I hit him with all of my old questions again. Feel much better!

By Wobudong (Wobudong) on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 10:22 pm: Edit

wlrsqtr: My son passed on Duke and Yale (no $)and a handful of full rides to go to Rice. Daughter graduated from Duke. Another son at GaTech. So far Rice gets my customer satisfaction vote by a wide margin.