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By Cherry on Monday, October 29, 2001 - 03:09 am: Edit

I'm a senior applying ED to Duke. With a 4.675 weighted GPA, 1330 on SAT I, strong leadership, and very actively involved in extracurriculars, what are my chances of being accepted?

By Dave Berry on Monday, October 29, 2001 - 04:29 pm: Edit

Cherry, it will take more than just numbers to get into Duke. To get a better idea of your chances, check out the book Admissions_Confidential. The author is a former Duke admissions officer.

You could also take advantage of our Stats_Evaluation service, which is on sale now for $49.

Your writing skills are crucial too. You have to be able to reveal who you are to the admissions staff through your writing and the Duke application is very challenging in the writing department. Check the book I co-authored, America's_Elite_Colleges, for a very comprehensive look at what it takes to apply to Duke and other top schools. It has an entire chapter devoted to real-life essays and analyses. Good luck!

By Dad In Chicago on Saturday, May 04, 2002 - 07:08 pm: Edit

Just wondering what happened here? Did Cherry get accepted to Duke either ED or at all? The fact that this string ended suggests a negative.

By roadtested on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 05:27 pm: Edit

As noted in the other string, however, in Admissions Confidential, the author states TWICE that without a 1480 on the SAT, most applicants have no chance. Is that true, Dave, or an exaggeration of some type? The median score is certainly lower than that; as stated elsewhere, that means that 70% of the accepted students were some kind of "special case", which is an oxymoron.

By Dave Berry on Wednesday, May 29, 2002 - 09:14 am: Edit

RT, do me a favor. Find those two citations in the the book and excerpt them here, would you? I'd like for our posters to get a look at them. I don't see how anyone can make such a blanket statement. I agree with your incredulity. Thanks for helping, RT.

By roadtested on Wednesday, May 29, 2002 - 09:38 am: Edit

Sure, Dave:
1) Page 92 - "In order to be a competitive applicant at Duke, most students will need to have fives in the first two ratings" (this refers to achievement and curriculum choice as defined in the paragraph above and the remainder of this one)"and a five in testing (1480 and above)."
2) Page 222 - "What could you say, that the kids below 1480 were generally alum and development admits, underrepresented minorities, athletes?"

I guess I can't see how the numbers can add up, do you? Fiske suggests that even for elite schools, if your scores are above the mean, you stand a reasonable (defined advisably, of course) a chance; but posters on a "competing board" frequently claim that if you're not above the 75%ile, forget it unless you add something measurable to the life of the school, whatever that is.

Can you help me to understand this, Dave? It makes a difference as to where I will apply.

By Dadster on Wednesday, May 29, 2002 - 10:08 am: Edit

I'll jump in here, roadtested, since someone raised a similar question in another thread. I don't think there is a firm cutoff at Duke or any other college, but in general it's safe to say that the lower your academics, the more the admissions committee will be looking to other factors in your application. Thus, a student with a 1600 SAT, ranked #1 in his class at a competitive magnet school may get in even if his resume isn't too exciting. A fourth quartile SAT/GPA scorer, by comparison, needs to be pretty special in some way to have any chance of admission (top athlete, world-class musician, etc.) In the middle, it gets harder to predict exactly how special the student needs to be. With ever more competitive admissions, though, just about ANY applicant to an elite college should be prepared to show how he/she will "something measurable to the life of the school" - pure academic admits are an endangered species.

My advice is to apply to the schools you really want to attend, and, if some of them are elites like Duke, do the best job you can presenting yourself. Recognize that regardless of your acadmics and ECs, elite admissions are unpredictable - have one or more schools on your list that are safe choices and that you would be happy to attend.

By roadtested on Wednesday, May 29, 2002 - 10:21 am: Edit

Dadster:
Yes, that is common sense -- except if there really is some kind of unofficial SAT cut-off,it is wrong. Don't you think the whole scary theme of Admissions Confidential is that common sense doesn't apply? That they are merely trying to increase the number of applications to make it appear that they are highly competitive? By making it appear that if you have a great story, they will listen. It is the desire of every applicant to believe what you've written, but maybe that is just playing into one's dreams and is not reality.

By Dadster on Wednesday, May 29, 2002 - 10:36 am: Edit

Even if there's no official cutoff, roadtested, it doesn't make admissions any easier. Even students with academics well above the median face a ton of competition, and have to recognize that their chances may not be good. If there's any deception in the process, it's the self-serving marketing that gives naive students unrealistic expectations - there was a discussion in the tricky college marketing thread.

By roadtested on Wednesday, May 29, 2002 - 11:11 am: Edit

If 1480 is a value Duke admissions thinks is an important minimum in their process, it rises above cynical manipulation to outright deceit, I think. If it is not, then Rachel Toor is being dishonest so she can sell more books. One way or the other, I don't understand why the admissions community isn't making a big deal out of this.

By Dave Berry on Wednesday, May 29, 2002 - 11:32 am: Edit

RT, I'm with Dadster here. If your stats and overall profile merit a Duke app, then do it. The usual caveats apply, though: superior essays, recs, app packaging, and a hook wouldn't hurt either. Don't let these elite Chicken Littles frustrate something you believe in. If you do your best and don't get in, at least you'll know that you tried. Otherwise, you'll always be second-guessing your life, as in "What if . . ."

By roadtested on Thursday, May 30, 2002 - 03:31 pm: Edit

Dad & Dave:
Okay, okay, I promise you that I am not going to be intimidated by this. I just want to know if you think that 1480 is plausible? Is it possible that after all the athletes, the NC residents, the minorities, those with truly amazing ECs, and ED admits, that all that is left is a few spots and the SAT score becomes the way that screening is done? And if not, why the book? And not just at Duke, what about the other elites -- I doubt Duke is different from Penn or Cornell or Georgetown when it comes to this. And if so, why SHOULDN'T this be taken into account when planning where to apply RD -- if the US News 25-75 scores are so misleading, what's their correct use as a guide for college selection?

By Dave Berry on Thursday, May 30, 2002 - 08:07 pm: Edit

RT, here's my final take on this issue. You're going to get what you get, so to speak, on the SAT I. Extending that, your overall profile will be what it will be. Then, come application time, you'll have to make some decisions about where to apply. You know, the Reach-Ballpark-Safety routine. Then you'll do your best (hopefully) on your applications and all their trimmings. After that, you'll mail them all in and see what happens.

Who knows? You might get into Duke with a 1420 or a 1390. Who can tell? Why the book? Why not? Insider information tends to sell. As for U.S. News, let them sell magazines, not college knowledge.

Overall, RT, I certainly understand your angst. However, regardless of how much you fret or try to outguess the admissions committees, they're bound to confound you sooner or later. Life is short. Do your best school work, take your best shot at your college picks, and let the fat and thin envelopes fall where they may.

By Bewildered on Wednesday, June 19, 2002 - 07:03 pm: Edit

Does anyone really think that you can get into Duke with a 1390 or a 1420 without some really major hook? I suspect that the 1480 thing is probably right for the most part.

By Kush on Saturday, August 17, 2002 - 06:43 pm: Edit

I know someone who had a 1400 and is going to attend Duke this fall.

By Dadster on Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 12:52 am: Edit

Well, Kush, he's not the only one. US News reports the 25%/75% SAT distribution is 1300/1500. Assuming a somewhat even distribution, that would suggest that about half the class is 1400 or below. Even if the distribution in the 1400s is skewed to the high end, it's evident that a quarter of the admitted students were at 1300 or less.

By Kush on Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 07:01 pm: Edit

Where is Duke located BTW?

By Ryan Lassabe on Wednesday, November 27, 2002 - 12:00 am: Edit

Duke is my dream school. Even though i did fairly well on my SAT (1280) i was dissapointed i even missed the 25% mark. Im not going to bother waisting my time and 65 bucks for addmission. Thats life. What i like to say is... "efit" heh heh.

PS. in my state no one takes the sat's. Its all about the ACT. And worse when I recieved a 27 on my ACT my guidence counslour said i had topped out and not to even try again. I hated her for that. For all of you who hear things like that.... efim. Do what you need to.

By Accbball (Accbball) on Wednesday, February 26, 2003 - 09:48 pm: Edit

a warning about duke's location:
duke is located in DURHAM, nc. As a raleigh resident (30 minutes away) whose spent the last 3 summers at duke, I can say durham IS NOT A COLLEGE TOWN. Duke itself is beautiful, but the surrounding area has a high crime rate and the usual poverty issues. it is not a quaint town(pop. 175,000+) but it's also not a cultural mecca by any means. basically, its a gritty city warmed over from the tobbacco bust where major excitement is going to a minor-league baseball game. most students make the 20 minute drive to chapel hill (country club college town -- quinessential college scene) or raleigh (350,000 & nc state) which has (relatively) a lot of things to do.
personally, i love it here, and plan to go to duke. it just helps to know what you're getting into.

By Duperme (Duperme) on Monday, October 20, 2003 - 05:38 pm: Edit

Just how important is it to visit the campus in the eyes of admissions officers? Flying a plane all the way to duke is quite expensive.

By Baseballtwin86 (Baseballtwin86) on Monday, October 20, 2003 - 07:54 pm: Edit

I doubt they much care, but I would recommend a visit, its absolutely beautiful :D . 56 more days to early decision notification, hope I'm accepted to Duke :D .