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White Male
Public School in NJ

SAT I: 1400 (750 math, 650 verbal) (Re-taking November, hoping for 1450)
SAT II: Math2c 780, Writing 760… Spanish (taking in October, 750+)
Rank: 4 of 225
GPA: Weighted- 4.57, Unweighted- 3.80
Most rigorous courseload possible
AP's Junior Year: U.S. History, English Language, Computer Science (4's on all of them)
AP's Senior Year: Calc BC, Biology, Statistics, English Literature, Spanish

Student Government – 4 years (Business Manager(11), Treasurer (12))
Spanish Club – 4 years (President (11,12))
National Honor Society (Treasurer)
- Tutor for Math and Computer Science
Spanish National Honor Society
- Tutor for Spanish at all levels
Habitat for Humanity (11,12)
JV and Varsity Tennis Teams – 4 years
Writer for school newspaper and school’s spanish newsletter

High School Writing Center (11,12)
Peer Tutor for English/History writing assignments

Chairperson for Student Escort Committee – this is for a program our high school sponsors each winter – children from underprivileged elementary school invited to our school for a day of fun-filled activities and excitement

Volunteer w/ Santa Fe Habitat for Humanity, New Mexico (Summer 2004)
225+ hours of community service… over a period of 6 weeks.. June/July/August


New Jersey Scholars Program
Semi-Finalist (Summer 2004)

National Merit Commended Student
(projected)

Certificate of Special Congressional Recognition
for community service, August 2004

I expect to get very good recs from both teachers

Colleges: Upenn, Cornell, Dartmouth, Tufts… others

Please rate my chances for those schools --- all RD.. I was considering applying ED to College at Penn, but have decided to apply RD… How will this effect my chance of being accepted at Penn, based on my scores/extracurriculars/community service, etc? By the way, my school has a very good history with Penn, sent three seniors there this year, and three the year before. Oh, and also, I have two cousins that go to Penn… I don’t think this is considered legacy, but would it help?

Thank you, I would appreciate any feedback... positive or negative...

By Ralkas (Ralkas) on Monday, September 27, 2004 - 07:49 pm: Edit

"Chairperson for Student Escort Committee" heh

By Smartaleck123 (Smartaleck123) on Monday, September 27, 2004 - 07:53 pm: Edit

yeah its this event called Winter Wonderland in our school... really big community service activity that the WHOLE school participates in.. long story, don't feel like explaining..


FEEDBACK, anyone? Thank you!

By Smartaleck123 (Smartaleck123) on Monday, September 27, 2004 - 09:52 pm: Edit

bump

By Smartaleck123 (Smartaleck123) on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 04:33 pm: Edit

bump

By Fresca (Fresca) on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 05:06 pm: Edit

Sorry, I'd have to say small chance unless your SATI gets closer to 1500. A white male from NJ at top E coast schools needs to be in the top 25% unless he has exceptional ECs, which I don't see here. Only parents can make you a legacy.

By Smartaleck123 (Smartaleck123) on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 05:56 pm: Edit

whats wrong w/ my extracurriculars? i've had positions of leadership in numerous clubs the past 3 years, and spent practically the entire summer in Santa Fe building houses for the the less fortunate....

I think my SAT score, although average for an Ivy, will go up in Nov... and i don't think the SAT will be the deciding factor in my admission or rejection... most people say as long as you are in the 1400+ area you are fine.. It doesn't seem plausible that merely raising my SAT score to a 1500 would give me MUCH greater chances of getting accepted... i'm sure the adcoms will focus on other aspects of the app besides solely the SAT score.. lol but thats just my opinion.

Would you like to explain a bit more what you mean? Thank you

Haha, sorry for the response, not trying to get defensive, I just don't understand where you're coming from....

Any other opinions from the great CC experts? Thanks

By Smartaleck123 (Smartaleck123) on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 05:59 pm: Edit

double post

By Fresca (Fresca) on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 06:51 pm: Edit

It's OK Smartaleck, this is rough going. I'm sorry to say being just in the 1400s usually doesn't get a white male, particularly one from a Mid Atlantic State, into an ivy. Those who are not athletes, legacies, URMs or without extraordinary ECs or situations, must be considerably above the school's averages. Nothing wrong with your ECs, they are just not unusual as are those of many successful ivy applicants. With a 1500, you'll be an average candidate and the essay will make all the difference. Read through the ivy threads to get some ideas.

By Smartaleck123 (Smartaleck123) on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 05:04 pm: Edit

thanks Fresca... I'm hoping to get the SAT up to 1450+, which should help somewhat even though its not quite at the 1500 level... I understand what you're saying and thanks for your advice!

By Smartaleck123 (Smartaleck123) on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 06:40 pm: Edit

bump

By Kousuke (Kousuke) on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 07:08 pm: Edit

" A white male from NJ at top E coast schools needs to be in the top 25% unless he has exceptional ECs, which I don't see here."

Fresca, what are you talking about? hes in the top 2% of his class.

By Fresca (Fresca) on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 07:36 pm: Edit

I mean top 25% of the college's average, which his SAT scores are not. I am a college counselor at a top NYC private school. The hard truth that I have to tell our kids is that an SATI in the 1400s will not gain a white male admission to an ivy without something that is extraordinary. A high class rank and GPA is great, but the SAT is the equalizer and HY & P reject 50% of 1600s. The other ivys reject the vast majority of under 1500s. I'll be frank. This is a below average ivy candidate. Very typical EC's, good GPA and rank that are offset by below average SATs for non hook applicants. If the poster is poor, first generation, a legacy, athlete, URM, or has overcome a major hardship, he has a shot. If he is a middle class white from NJ, it's highly unlikely he will get into one of these schools with a below 1500 SATI. Today's hard reality!

By Smartaleck123 (Smartaleck123) on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 07:48 pm: Edit

Wow. lol... I don't know what to say to that... do you think my SAT II scores will offset my SAT score somewhat.. so far I have a 780(math2c) and 760(writing)... and taking Spanish in October... 750+ probable

By Fresca (Fresca) on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 07:54 pm: Edit

Aleck, if you were one of the kids I advise, I would recommend an intense test prep course. If you can get the SATI to 1500, you are a solid candidate. By solid I mean you would have all of the stats, GPA, rank, SATI and IIs, to make you a serious contender. From there you will need great recs and essays to differentiate yourself. So my energy would go into SAT prep, essays and helping your references to fully portray how special you are! Good Luck!!

By Fresca (Fresca) on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 08:23 pm: Edit

I just read what another poster said on another thread, and thought they put it better than I did. The bottom line is that ivys don't need to overlook a weakness of any kind. They have more than enough applicants that are stellar on every front. The thing though Aleck, is that really does change when you look one tier below, where there are many fine schools. Don't get stuck on the big names!

By Kousuke (Kousuke) on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 11:47 pm: Edit

Fresca, can you rate my chances at my list? i feel like people have been being too easy on me now that you have said some things.
http://www.collegeconfidential.com/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?4/92326
thanks

By Fresca (Fresca) on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 09:07 am: Edit

Kousuke, I think your list is very good. Your only testing weakness is obviously verbal and writing, and if yiu can get those into the 700s you'd be looking great all around. Your ECs aren't presented that well here, hopefully you can tweak to show your passions.

Your list is good because many of the LACs you list do not get many Asian applicants. This will really work for you. Dartmouth also gets fewer Asian applicants than the other Ivys. You're in good shape. Good luck!

By Alexandre (Alexandre) on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 09:30 am: Edit

Fresca, the numbers do not add up to support your claims.

At Brown, 35% of the students are white males but only about 15% of the students (male or female, white, Asian, African American, Hispanic or internationals) who get into Brown have SAT scores over 1500. I know for a fact that a lot of those 25% are female and Asian. That means that probably only 15% of the students who get SAT scores over 1500 are white males, and that is a stretch. The remaining white males who enter Brown have SAT scores under 1500. I would agree that if the average SAT at Brown is 1400, which it is, then the average SAT for a white male is probably closer to 1450. But I am sure that a 1400 is enough to be a serious contender. Obviously, if Smartaleck can raise his SAT to 1450+, he would improve his chances, but I would say he still has a reasonable chance.

By Fresca (Fresca) on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 11:38 am: Edit

Not from the schools I've worked at Alexandre. Standards for middle class whites from Mid Atlantic States are higher than for anyone else at top NE schools. Without excellent EC's, I see kids needing to be as close as possible to 1500 to get in.

By Smartaleck123 (Smartaleck123) on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 07:21 pm: Edit

thanks guys.. bump... i wanna hear from as many people as possible... remember: RD at Penn, Cornell, Dartmouth, Tufts.. what are my chances?!

By G0ldplatinum (G0ldplatinum) on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 08:20 pm: Edit

How would ED play into this? Will ivys lower their standards from say a 1500 to low 1400s if a candidate was to apply ED?

I've heard applying ED allows the Ivies to neglect a minor flaw in an otherwise well rounded applicant.

By Flstudent (Flstudent) on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 08:41 pm: Edit

How about a white male with similar stats from a southern state? Is geography really that significant?

By Slipper2002 (Slipper2002) on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 12:19 am: Edit

I think with a 1450 you are fine. SAT1 is important but not THAT important. I know plenty with similar GPA/ SAT as you that are going to places like Dartmouth, Penn, and Cornell right now.

By Sybbie719 (Sybbie719) on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 11:23 am: Edit

What you must remember the applicant is looked at as a whole and is evaluated in context of the opportunities which s/he has been given.

Fresca, who is saying things that some of us really don't want to hear is telling the truth. Aleck if you are from a white middle class back ground with college educated parents attending prep school you are going to be evaluated differently from someone who has not had the opportunities which you have been given.

If you go to the parents forum, there is a big discussion on public v. private school in the college process which will hopefully give you more insight.

Hey Alex, missed you on the parents forum, hope all is well.

By Celebrian23 (Celebrian23) on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 05:04 pm: Edit

well the fact is private schools, (of course not all, but the cream of the crop) and the students at them have a lot more oppurtunities than someone at even a lesser private school, and colleges know that and adknowledge that

By Robinhood (Robinhood) on Saturday, October 09, 2004 - 10:15 pm: Edit

Fresca, reading your messgaes, getting tempted to ask you this.
can you please comment on my stats?

Asian male
E.Coast Public school very competetive
1500 SAT I (750/750)
Sat II 750 Math 2C, 670 Chem
Pending SatII Physics and writing

AP psycology 5, Bio 5
w. GPA 3.49

Took 5 AP courses in senior yr
honors roll
Columbia SHP program
Summer Research Intern

Comm service 140 hrs
moderate EC in school (polictics club etc..)

Music 5-6 yrs
1 yr Freshman soccer (got Freshman award) & JV soccer
Played 10 yrs township travel soccer

Job: soccer referee and newspaper intern

want to do Cornell ED, Dartmouth, Duke, Brown/YAle
What do you think? Thanks,

By Smartaleck123 (Smartaleck123) on Sunday, October 10, 2004 - 02:46 pm: Edit

"Aleck if you are from a white middle class back ground with college educated parents attending prep school you are going to be evaluated differently from someone who has not had the opportunities which you have been given."

Who said I'm from prep school? I go to public school!

By Sybbie719 (Sybbie719) on Sunday, October 10, 2004 - 04:25 pm: Edit

Just throwing out the scenario that all there is no cut and dry answers regarding chances because all is not equal (may even not fair) in the admissions game. Never meant to offend you

By Toblin (Toblin) on Sunday, October 10, 2004 - 09:48 pm: Edit

"It's OK Smartaleck, this is rough going. I'm sorry to say being just in the 1400s usually doesn't get a white male, particularly one from a Mid Atlantic State, into an ivy. "

And people wonder why racism is increasing amongst our young people. Racism breeds racism.

By Sybbie719 (Sybbie719) on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 01:21 pm: Edit

Hey AlecK,

Jersey is pretty well represented at Dartmouth. to your credit, the adcoms, may be familiar with the schools in your area. I think that you should get a copy of your schools profile (that the GC's send to the colleges) so you can see for your self where those before you have gotten accepted.

The net, net is this:

If you DON'T apply you have a 100% chance of not getting in. So if it is the school of your dreams throw caution and $50 to the wind and apply.

All the best

By Pebbles (Pebbles) on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 03:47 pm: Edit

SATs are not that big of a deal. They help/hurt you only to a certain extent. Your SAT score is definitely high enough to put you into the contention pool for all your schools. Now will they give you an advantage among the applicants in the pool? No. But would they make you an auto-reject? Absolutely not.