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I'm a white female with 1480 SATs (750 V / 730 M)

My SAT IIs are:
770 Math IIC
730 Writing
? Chemistry (taking in november, been scoring around 700)

APs:
US History - 5
AB Calculus - 4 - my calculator died in the middle

GPA: 3.9, 3/350 class rank

_____________________________________________________

OTHER -

Main ECs:

Cross Country Co-Captain
Debate Club Captain
Math League President
FBLA Treasurer
Managing Editor of School Newspaper

Work Experience:

Lifeguard (10,11)
Mathematica Policy Research - Locator (11)

Class Schedule:

frosh (i went to private school tis year, and my schedule turned out horribly)- Algrebra II H, English 9 H, Geophysical Science H, Acting Workshop, Spanish I, US History H

soph (at a mediocre public school) - Humanities (honors) History/English, Chem H, Bio H, Wind Ensemble (audition), Advanced Choir (audition), Girls Choir (audition), Spanish III, Precalc H

Junior - AP Chem, AP Calc AB, Calc BC (community college), English H, Girls' Choir (audition), Journalism, Wind Ensemble (audition), Spanish 4 H, AP US History

senior - AP Bio, AP Physics, AP Economics, Journalism, AP Statistics, Wind Ensemble, Girls' Choir, AP English


The good:

I'm a year ahead in math, I took BC calc on my own at a community college as a junior (my school doesnt offer it) and I'm taking a math class at Princeton University senior year

The bad:
I've gotten 2 B's, both in science (one in AP Chemistry and one in Campus Ecology which was a gay freshman year requirement at the private school I used to go to). I have no awards, and no cool summer programs.


The list of schools I really like: MIT, NYU, Columbia, UPenn, Emory, Cornell, Carnegie Mellon, Yale, Tufts.

I really really really love MIT, but I'm seeing all of you guys with 800s down the line...is it possible? Have you heard of anybody getting accepted with these types of scores? Is there anything you think I should do to boost my chances? What about my chances for other schools?

And be honest -- would I be better off applying early to a lower Ivy where I have a better shot? I don't want to waste my early admit if I have no chance at all.

Thank you all.

By Jonw222 (Jonw222) on Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - 06:02 pm: Edit

Questions I have for you:

1. Where are you applying from?
2. Are you applying to engineering schools or the regular college?
3. What will be your major?

In general, girls have a *much* better chance at being accepted to engineering schools and other majors which are male-dominated. I have heard of girls being accepted (albeit two-three years ago) with your stats.

Without the entire story, I see MIT, Yale, Columbia, UPenn and Cornell (depending on the school) as reaches. But I would see them as reaches no matter what the stats of the applicant are except if you are a leagacy or split the atom in your basement.

Carnegie Mellon, NYU, and Tufts seem like matches.

Because of the randomness of the college process, I would recommend some safeties. You never know what things can happen. For example:

I had a friend who applied early decision to Tufts with a legacy and was *rejected.* She applied regular decision to UPenn and was *accepted*. She goes there.

Always good to have safeties.

JW

By Ohio_Mom (Ohio_Mom) on Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - 06:14 pm: Edit

If you love MIT - and apply early somewhere else and get in - you're going to be kicking yourself because you'll mever know if you could have made it or not. Since you are a girl, MIT is a reach but not impossible. I would suggest concentrating on really nailing that SAT II chemistry test. If you had to work during the summer and couldn't do fancy academic programs - they won't hold it against you.

By Jro_87 (Jro_87) on Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - 09:57 pm: Edit

Jonw, I'm applying from a mediocre public school in NJ, and I want to major in economics (so Sloan for MIT). thanks for your help!

By Justlaugh (Justlaugh) on Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - 11:22 pm: Edit

I have the exact same SAT1 score (750V and 730M), and I was wondering -- do you guys think that that will hurt us a lot as a weak part of the application, even if we have a 800x3 for SAT II's?

And does the PSAT cutoff vary for each state or for each school?

By Jonw222 (Jonw222) on Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - 11:33 pm: Edit

I stand by my original post:

Reach
MIT
Yale
Columbia
UPenn
Cornell

Match
Carnegie Mellon
NYU
Tufts

I would recommend two or more safeties. Possibly add Rutgers since you're from NJ.

JW

By Piman3141 (Piman3141) on Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - 11:40 pm: Edit

To answer your question justlaugh: No. Schools like MIT dont care as much about the SAT I (btw 1480 isnt that bad, really); 3 800s on the SAT IIs would certainly make up for what you see as a poor SAT I score. In fact, Im pretty sure a 1480 is right in the competitive pool.

By Anxious_Mom (Anxious_Mom) on Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - 11:49 pm: Edit

The PSAT cutoff varies by state.

By Jro_87 (Jro_87) on Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - 11:56 pm: Edit

Yeah, I have 3 safeties, I just didn't post them on here because I was pretty confident that they're safeties (Rutgers, TCNJ, and Penn State). Thanks for all the opinions -- it pretty much confirmed what I thought, but I still think I'm going to go for MIT. I'm really happy with NYU as a backup school, (that's probably my second or third choice and I think I have a good shot at getting in), so I may as well just go for MIT early. Nothing to lose. Thanks all again, more responses are still welcomed. Wish me luck for applying, cause I'll sure need it ;)

By Piman3141 (Piman3141) on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 12:02 am: Edit

Good luck!

By Townie (Townie) on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 01:01 pm: Edit

Your scores are really similar to mine, and so is your list of schools. While some of those schools are reaches, definitely apply, because you have pretty strong scores and ECS and I'd say you're a competitive candidate.

By Pinkpirate (Pinkpirate) on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 07:02 pm: Edit

I find this post, and this entire website, rather interesting with regard to the SAT scores. I'm beginning to wonder if my little suburban Oklahoma public school is even more, er, sub-par than I imagined. People are ecstatic when they get a score around 1350 or so, and those of us who breach 1400, of which there are probably about 5-6 per rising senior class of 500-600, or 1450, (about three of us) are revered as geniuses. Is my school even dinkier than I thought? Also, do colleges take into consideration the caliber of school from which you graduated during the admissions process?

By Pinkpirate (Pinkpirate) on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 07:04 pm: Edit

Just to clarify, the tone of that post was not intentionally sarcastic or condescending towards my fellow students, I just found it rather interesting that what is considered outstanding at my school is considered less-than-satisfactory at others.

By Piman3141 (Piman3141) on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 07:12 pm: Edit

dont take this the wrong way, but your school does sound kind of sub par, with 1450+ scorers praised as geniuses (btw im going totally on your choice of words, which might have given me the wrong impression). But keep in mind, kids on college confidential arent your normal high school students (Im wasting my summer thinking about college), and we tend to be overachievers. So dont feel too bad about your school. many kids at my school would be ecstatic to receive a 1450 on the SATs.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 07:13 pm: Edit

Your choices look solid to me, given your stats. Good luck.

By Pinkpirate (Pinkpirate) on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 07:45 pm: Edit

oh, and good luck with your college admissions, jro 87, I wouldn't rule out any school, just make sure to write lovely essays that portray you in a flattering and unique light.

By Pinkpirate (Pinkpirate) on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 08:08 pm: Edit

No offense taken with regard to the wording thing, or my school. I want to get out of Oklahoma anyway. Sadly, mine is one of the better (public) schools in the state. Also, I believe you have a point. Most people on here are more ambitious and successful than your average teen. Furthermore, test scores aren't everything, and while they can provide some insight into "scholastic aptitude" rendering someone a "genius" or "stupid" or any other label based on one three hour test is rather silly. I just thought there might be a slight geographic difference in standards, as what is considered top-in-state here seems good, but not outstanding, in many other locations. (One example is our national merit cutoff of 206. The 220s here are well above cutoff, whereas elsewhere they might only be commended).

By Entropicgirl (Entropicgirl) on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 09:19 pm: Edit

Jonw222--
You said "In general, girls have a *much* better chance at being accepted to...majors which are male-dominated."
Just out of curiousity, how do you know this? Are there any numbers floating around out there? Also, how would this be in the interests of the school? Do they just want to be able to say "oh look at how diverse we are, look at how many girls we've got in blah blah blah," or what?

By Jonw222 (Jonw222) on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 11:06 pm: Edit

Entropicgirl:

I know this from the admissions statistics that are available with US News and World Report for a variety of schools. Let's take schools typically known for engineering such as MIT and Caltech. In 1995 (since I happen to have these stats handy but the same is true for the recent years of college admissions), 2,424 women applied for the incoming class and 948 were accepted for a 39.1% acceptance rate. Contrastingly, 5,464 men applied to MIT in 1995 and although 1,165 men were accepted that makes the acceptance rate for men 21.3%, significantly less than the 39.1% for women. The same trend holds true for CalTech which had a 33.3% acceptance rate for women but a 25.3% rate for men.

Contrast this with Duke in the same year which had a 28.4% acceptance rate for women and a 28.7% acceptance rate for men and Brown which had a 19.9% acceptance rate for women and a 20.3% acceptance rate for men.

These stats are readily available. You should have a look at them. But here is the more interesting question in your post:

"how would this be in the interests of the school?"

The school never says that it takes the most qualified applicants per se and I'm not saying that the women cannot handle the work. These schools reject many, many people who are perfectly capable of doing the work. However, schools justify taking underrepresented minorities who might not be as qualified for similar reasons. I'm sorry if I put too fine a point on this but for the same reason that a school wants diversity with underrepresented minorities, they also want diversity regarding gender. I don't mean to say this to enrage anyone, it's just the reality of college admissions.

JW

By Eaglefalconn (Eaglefalconn) on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 11:26 pm: Edit

This is probably going to be reported as a "offensive reply" on the thread, but I have to ask. My stats are very similar to this girl's though everything but my SAT I is stronger. If I get a sex change, will I have a better chance?

By Entropicgirl (Entropicgirl) on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 11:46 pm: Edit

Jonw222--I was asking more in terms of MAJORS (which it seemed to me was part of your original statement). I have seen the numbers AND understand why it's in the school's best interests if you're talking about a tech school's overall admissions. It's just a bit harder to attract students when your gender ratio is too out of whack (that's one of the many reasons that I'm not really considering Caltech).
But back to my original question, how would it be in a school's best interests (let's say that this school has somewhere near a 50/50 gender ratio overall) to have higher admissions rates for women applying to the school of engineering or the physics or math majors, and do you have any numbers that show that THIS actually happens?
(Maybe I was misinterpreting your original statement ("girls have a *much* better chance at being accepted to engineering schools and other majors which are male-dominated"), and if so, I'm very sorry).

By Jonw222 (Jonw222) on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 01:09 am: Edit

I think you're asking for individual acceptance rates for individual majors. Some of these majors do include physics and other sciences (see the stats broken down by gender for schools such as Cornell Agriculture and Life Sciences where the major is more set in stone than at another school where students don't declare a major until the end of sophomore year.) For details and surveys of physics majors, for instance, applying to a school, consult the American Institute of Physics (they probably have a website as well) which keeps statistics on the gender gap with physics, the amount of women applying to college as physics majors and the amount of women finally completing an undergraduate degree in physics. Another male dominated major is music composition which I have seen first hand try to take more women into those programs. Schools of music will also openly admit trying to accept more women into their composition programs.

I think I have sufficiently proven the point that women applying to engineering schools (and yes, the engineering MAJORS within those schools) are accepted with higher rates. Note that schools of engineering and schools at universities are treated separately in terms of admissions. Universities don't want a *school of engineering* to have too large a majority of men for instance and strive for a balance, even when significantly more men apply to them.

And to keep the ratios overall, a school, with equal sized Arts and Sciences and Engineering schools must have a 50/50 ratio to both schools to have a 50/50 overall ratio and not have a higher percentage of women in the Arts and Sciences school. This means they must accept more women to the engineering school.

For a school to want to recruit women to a particular major, it would have to be very male dominated (engineering, physics or yes music composition) for an admissions officer to actively recruit students for that major.

Schools don't want to have "male" majors and "female" majors and strive for a balance.

JW

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 01:19 am: Edit

Jonw is right. Males have an easier time of it at schools where they are underrepresented. Vassar, Wheaton, Skidmore, Connecticut College, Goucher, Bennington all fall into that category. Actually, the counselor at my son's school said that many of the schools are running slightly lopsided with more girls that boys, so males have a slight edge since the schools want to stay within a 55/45 ratio if they can do so.

Tech schools have a hard time getting females. So they are a bit more generous with the girls. Not a secret at all. A female engineering major with the math stats and the interests in that field will have a much easier time of it than her male counterpart.

Many of the performing arts schools are also skewed towards the males--dance, for instance, is a major where an adequately prepared male can get into many schools where the females have it tough.

The way things are going with admissions in some of these colleges, Eaglefalconn, a sex change operation just might be the "distinction" to get you into a number of schools. Recently read an article about some of the selective colleges catering towards the "nongender" kids, an new one on me. These are kids who have no definitive gender---girls who look like guys and vice versa and they may identify with the opposite sex but they deliberately keep their sex vague.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 01:20 am: Edit

Jonw is right. Males have an easier time of it at schools where they are underrepresented. Vassar, Wheaton, Skidmore, Connecticut College, Goucher, Bennington all fall into that category. Actually, the counselor at my son's school said that many of the schools are running slightly lopsided with more girls that boys, so males have a slight edge since the schools want to stay within a 55/45 ratio if they can do so.

Tech schools have a hard time getting females. So they are a bit more generous with the girls. Not a secret at all. A female engineering major with the math stats and the interests in that field will have a much easier time of it than her male counterpart.

Many of the performing arts schools are also skewed towards the males--dance, for instance, is a major where an adequately prepared male can get into many schools where the females have it tough.

The way things are going with admissions in some of these colleges, Eaglefalconn, a sex change operation just might be the "distinction" to get you into a number of schools. Recently read an article about some of the selective colleges catering towards the "nongender" kids, an new one on me. These are kids who have no definitive gender---girls who look like guys and vice versa and they may identify with the opposite sex but they deliberately keep their sex vague.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 01:21 am: Edit

JUST KIDDING, Eaglefalconn!

By Entropicgirl (Entropicgirl) on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 04:25 pm: Edit

I'm still not *completely* sold on the majors thing, but I guess it makes sense. If your engineering/physics/music comp classes have 90% guys in 'em, it's not as much of a good experience...
Woo woo for the female physics major here. And now if I get in, I'm gonna feel cheap, and if I don't, I'll just feel *lame*. But I guess I do want girls in my classes, so I'll just have to live with the situation.

By Appliedmath (Appliedmath) on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 11:19 pm: Edit

MIT probably not, NYU yes, Columbia maybe, UPenn good chance, Emory yes, Cornell highly likely, Carnegie Mellon not familar with school, Yale probalby not, Tufts yes.