Ivy Leagues Part II





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Discus: What Are My Chances?: February 2003 Archive: Ivy Leagues Part II
By Allison on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 08:38 pm: Edit

Wow! You guys have been so helpful. I got a lot of good input for my survey. Now I have another question:

How would you rank the STUDENTS (not the academic institution) of the Ivy League schools?

For instance: Is a student at Yale (in general, of course) brighter than a student at Penn?
What are you ideas? * Based solely on intuition or overall stereotypes *

By lol on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 10:30 pm: Edit

do you want only academically gifted students? or do you want more well round students? for example:

student #1
4.0, 1550 SAT
academic ECs

student #2
3.90, 1450 SAT
captain of a varsity team
writes for newspaper

student #3
3.8, 1350 SAT
captain of 3 varisty teams
yearbook editor
decent violinist


it really depends on what you are looking for. students #1, who is a phenomenal book student is probably at harvard, yale or princeton. stats commonly associated with HYP students.

student #2, who is not as academically strong as #1...but is more well-rounded is probably at brown, dartmouth and columbia. notice that the stats mirror closely to BDC stats. very competitive academic stats and low acceptance numbers.

student #3, who is completely well-rounded...though he has lower academic stats, has some other things to offer. you can probably find him at cornell and penn. CP academic admissions numbers may not be as strong as HYP, but virtually every student at CP have a well-rounded feel. in fact, CP have the most high school varisty athletes on campus according to the cornell AD press release, circa 2001. i dont know if thats still true in 2003, but i wouldnt doubt it as CP are the two largest ivies.

conversely, the typical HYP student is absolutely outstanding in one particular area...like winning an olympic medal, or being a actress (natalie portman, tatiana ali).

By H bomb on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 11:33 pm: Edit

Harvard
Princeton and Yale
Columbia and Brown
Cornell
Dartmouth
Penn

By yea on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 11:36 pm: Edit

H bomb is 110% correct on that one... but if Stanford (non-Ivy) was placed in there, it'd definetely take Harvard's spot

By hmmmmmmm on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 12:19 am: Edit

That's weird. I don't know as much about it as 'lol' obviously does, but based on my stereotypes of these schools (which I think is what Allison is basically looking for), I would say that:

Kids at Harvard are either the offspring of the extremeley rich or the extremely famous, an accomlished member of an under-represented minority, phenomenally athletic, completely brilliant or any mixture of those. I do agree that kids at Harvard have a "thing" that is catchy and different. They've published a book, discovered a protein complex, something weird and wonderful. That is my stereotype of them based on the kids I've seen that go there. Also, they probably have a legacy.

Kids at Yale are smart, may have more connections than they'd need at other ivies (excepting Harvard), and are usually more focused on humanities...did I make that stereotype up? probably.

Kids at Brown are liberal and intelligent. They are more interested in saving the world than profiting from it. I read someone say on this site that Brown kids take extreme initiative. Also, I have the stereotype that Brown kids are less competitive, and are more interested in learning than in getting good grades... don't they not have grades there?

Dartmouth kids don't strike me as that smart. I visited there, and I went to a frat party at 8 o'clock at night and someone had already thrown up in the gargage can. They seem sorta like alcoholics, and I think they're supposed to be really conservative too.

I don't know anything about Columbia, but I know some kids there and they seem to be a little more pre-occupied with material stuff. They are probably really rich too. That's all I can think of.

Penn kids are snots. They are smart, but not as smart as kids at other ivies. they probably work hard, but I heard that frats are more popular there than at other ivies (including cornell). I know a few kids who went there, and I didn't like them much when they got back.

Kids at Cornell are isolated and stressed and therefore drink and do a lot of drugs. They do not have to be that smart to be there, but they probably emerge smarter people... or cracked out.

Princeton kids strike me as brilliant. I don't think legacy is as big a deal there as it is at Harvard or Yale, but Princeton is probably the best school out of all of them, based solely upon the students that enter there.

Well, that's it. A good waste of time.

By ad on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 12:43 am: Edit

ha, you are retarded. i know five people that go to harvard, and they are nothing exceptional.

it is all just luck.

By yoyoman on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 02:56 pm: Edit

harvard people are stupider than everyone else. that's why they go theree.

By hi hi hi on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 03:44 pm: Edit

It goes:

1. Harvard
2. Princeton
3. Yale
4. Columbia
5. Brown
6. Dartmouth
7. UPenn
8. Cornell...I know a LOT of dumb kids that got accepted here.

By ivy wannabe on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 03:58 pm: Edit

Hi hi hi, what do you consider dumb? Give me the credentials of some of the dumb people you know who got into Cornell.

By Cornell06 (Cornell06) on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 04:30 pm: Edit

Admittedly, Cornell does have a lot of dumb students. They only get in because the school is not that selective so many slip through the cracks. It's unfortunate that when I go to sporting events etc. with other Ivy league school, we get looked down upon. Pah: here's my list, from someone who would actually know.

1. Harvard/Yale/Princeton (hard to say which comes first)
2. Columbia/Penn
3. Dartmouth
4. Brown/Cornell

By Bobdagod on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 04:35 pm: Edit

Of the 20 or so soon-to-be ivy leaguers at my school, the Princetonians are by far the most stupid. One is failing a class he has taken a second year in a row. Enuff said.

By I on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 04:38 pm: Edit

I know that MIT is not an Ivy, but what happen if MIT is placed in this survey??

By anonymous on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 05:56 pm: Edit

from the other survey-

Penn should definetely be last. 3/3 applicants from my school got in based on the combination of ED/legacy only...

stats:

#1- rich white girl with legacy
4th decile
1340 SAT I
No EC's

#2- rich white guy with legacy
3rd decile
1420 SAT I
Member of Poetry Club

#3- rich white guy with legacy
1st decile
1290 SAT I
Captain of tennis team, member of NHS


I can almost gaurantee that any of these 3 who got into Penn ED w/ legacy could not have done so for even Brown, Cornell or Dartmouth. The facts say it all- Penn is good, but not THAT good. It's mostly just hype.

By All I gotta say on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 05:59 pm: Edit

Cornell06,

Retard of the year LOL

By Horticulturist on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 06:48 pm: Edit

I think the question of how smart the kids are at certain schools depends on 2 main things.

1. The type of student that applies to the school.
2. How difficult the school is to get into.

I think if you look at it that way, the following would indicate how "intelligent" the students at these schools are on average.

1. Harvard
2. Princeton
3. Yale
4. Brown
5. Columbia
6. Dartmouth
7. Penn
8. Cornell

I'm going to go against myself and put columbia below brown just because of the first criterion. A lot of stupid people apply there just because it is in new york city, which gives it a tiny admissions percentage - to match that of Yale or Princeton.

By word on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 10:36 pm: Edit

penn has the best business school in the world, cornell has the best hotel management school in the world, and one of the best engineering. it all depends at what you look at in each school.

By lol on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 11:32 pm: Edit

WRONG! penn doesnt have the best business school in the world. they consistently lag behind harvard and stanford.

in 2001, they were #3 (http://www.education-india.net/studentszone/usmba00.php)
in 2002, they were #4 (http://www.education-india.net/studentszone/usmba01.php)
in 2003, they are #3 (http://www.education-india.net/studentszone/usmba02.php)

the only thing you got right in your post was that cornell has the best hotel school in the world.

if you want to talk about BESTS:

medicine - harvard (http://www.education-india.net/studentszone/usmed02.php)
hotel - cornell
industrial labor relations- cornell
engineering - MIT (http://www.education-india.net/studentszone/useng02.php)
law - yale (http://www.education-india.net/studentszone/uslaw02.php)
education - stanford (http://www.education-india.net/studentszone/usedu02.php)
business - stanford (http://www.education-india.net/studentszone/usmba02.php)

By lol on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 11:34 pm: Edit

p.s. those rankings above are from US News. since US News makes you pay for the rankings on their website...another web-server provided this info for free.

enjoy.

By aa on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 01:31 am: Edit

just go http://www.education-india.net/studentszone/thelatest.php
make life easier

By Ares15 (Ares15) on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 01:50 am: Edit

That's graduate business school you fvcking moron. Penn is number one undergrad business. And who gives a FVCK about HOTEL management or Industrial Labor Relations?! Woop dee doo! Those are perhaps the most random degrees ever. The University of Bullsh!t has the BEST underwater basketweaving program in the world, does that make them a great university? If you wanna get THAT specific, Penn has the best Finance, Insurance/Risk Management, and Marketing programs, I could go on forever. At least Engineering, Law, Business, etc. are broad subjects, hotel management is nothing more than a bs degress, so don't use it as a means to justification for a school being excellent. Don't get me wrong, Cornell is a good school, but when people brag that it's great because of hotel management... it just makes me think Cornell is a joke itself. You're done lol.

By Regulus (Regulus) on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 01:55 am: Edit

Amen to that Ares.

By Cornellian (Cornellian) on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 01:56 am: Edit

Eh, "lol" is just a little obsessed with Cornell so he feels the need to try and make everyone think it is better than it actually is. Reminds me of Cru. :D

By lol on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 01:57 am: Edit

ares15,

you're dumber that sh1t! lol. when talking about best business schools...of course people think of GRADUATE schools...because undergraduate business degrees mean sh1t compared to an MBA!

for undergrad, a harvard sociology major will get better jobs...with mckinsey or bain or goldman sachs over a penn business student any day of the week!

atleast a cornell hotelie can say he's the best at something when he graduates. and for industrial labor relations...who the hell do you think brokers all the major league baseball arbitration hearing? they are LABOR disputes. what are penn undergrad business majors best at? nothing. they still take a back seat to MBAs.

ares15, you're well done and sunk...you dumbass.

By Cornell06 (Cornell06) on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 02:02 am: Edit

lol, where's the links that shows Cornell being the best at Hotel Management and Industrial Labor Relations? You left those out. And I'm sorry to say... I think Penn is better than Cornell. I think it's in large part to the school's large size, and easier admissions which let a lot of underqualified people get in.

By crimsonrules on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 02:03 am: Edit

I love it when you puny punks argue about whose school is better at what. HAHAHAHHAAH!

Both Penn and Cornell suck. Throw Brown, Dartmouth and Columbia into the garbage too.

To me, a Harvard student, Cornell, Penn and some community college have no difference--you will all work for me one day.

HAHAHA. Penn? C'mon...go to a REAL school!

By Pennster (Pennster) on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 02:05 am: Edit

Hmm... in all the links that you gave out there, Penn was on top of Cornell (usually by an incredibly large amount) in everything except engineering (which Cornell isn't even that good at). Penn is quite simply the better, overall school.

By asdf on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 02:06 am: Edit

cornell06:

No wonder Cornell is a haven for morons! You are their ringleader! The US News doesn't publish rankings for hotel management or ILR. How could a link be provided for something that doesn't exist?

You're a moron for even asking.

By Cornellian (Cornellian) on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 02:07 am: Edit

I bet you anything crimsonrules is going to a state school and pretends to go to Harvard on internet message boards.

By Cornell06 (Cornell06) on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 02:08 am: Edit

So what makes you so sure it's the best?

By crimsonrules on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 02:09 am: Edit

Try again smartass. If you were smart enough, you could hack and check the IP address I'm writing from. You will see its from a Harvard address.

You puny-minded folk disgust me.

By Cornellian (Cornellian) on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 02:10 am: Edit

Haha, I guess they were right about Harvard students.

By The Truth on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 02:53 am: Edit

Listen you kids:

* Just look at what universities the wealthiest 100 people attended ! (See recent Forbes 400)

* Just look at what universities the Nobel prize winners of the past 10-yrs attended !

You will find that they come from all over the damn place ! Some schools - in particular the Ivies, Stanford, and MIT - will feature frequently, but you will not find a common school across the board. THANK GOODNESS. Many attended University of Colorado. You will find others from University College in Dublin. You will find still others from Rice University. It is foolish for one to say that Wharton is •••• and Harvard is great. I've worked with alums from all the Ivies, and let me tell you the truth ----- there is a bell curve everywhere. I've met too many Harvard morons to list here .... and have equally met mad geniuses from University of Houston.

Soon enough, you'll realize that schools do not make great people great. Great people will be great no matter where they go.

By anonymous on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 08:17 pm: Edit

well said. i still contented that penn has no place in the ivy league-- look at my earlier post and the stats of people who got accepted from my school!

By aa on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 09:51 pm: Edit

i believe graduate is more important than undergraduate degree...so if someone tries hard enough he can be what he wants to be...

By whoa there on Saturday, February 15, 2003 - 10:57 am: Edit

If you go by SAT scores, Darmouth's average is 1415 while Columbia's average is 1394

By Cornellian 2007 on Saturday, February 15, 2003 - 11:06 am: Edit

To anonymous, Penn does have a place in the Ivy League along with all the other schools, because the Ivy League is just a sports conference. And anyways, all the ivies are among the best, most well-respected schools in the country. You can't go wrong with going to an ivy.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Saturday, February 15, 2003 - 11:56 am: Edit

Actually, you CAN go wrong going to an Ivy if
criteria other than prestige matter to you.

It depends on the total fit between student and
school.

By my opinion on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 11:13 pm: Edit

I hate it when people ask for their chances and then say they applied to a whole bunch of good schools, blah, blah, blah, Yale, and Brown. How can you want to go to Yale and Brown? Brown is insanely different from Yale. It's obvious that they either have no clue what theyre doing or are just looking at the prestigious name.

By AnotherDad on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 09:22 am: Edit

Thank you, my opinion.
My kid's first choice is Brown. No interest in Yale. I just wish all the people applying to every Ivy in the hope of getting into one would do the research and save their money and apply to the right school. My kid would have a better chance. And the stories of the chip-on-the-shoulder Brown acceptees who really wanted to go elsewhere would finally fade. Too late this round, but Juniors reading this, try to find the school that really fits. Often, it is not an Ivy and the education may be just as good and better for you.

By nrg on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 12:40 pm: Edit

I can see wanting to go to Yale or Brown - they're two of the artsier ivies. What doesn't make sense to me is liking Dartmouth and Brown, or applying to all 8 ivies

By Thedad (Thedad) on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 01:37 pm: Edit

I agree. They're shopping for prestige, not a good fit.

By spirit on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 02:17 pm: Edit

Hmm.. im just wondering, whats the great deal about prestige anyway? Do students out of these *prestigious* univesrities get higher pays? how much higher?

By hereitis on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 02:26 pm: Edit

I agree that applying to Dartmouth and Brown simultaneously is a little strange - but I have to say one thing. Sometimes, a senior in high school doesn't know or have the time to figure out exactly which school is best for him. how many seniors in high school actually KNOW who they are? Of course, most people have a general idea, but not always and never completely. Applying to Dartmouth and Brown based on Dartmouth's great language program or Brown's great neuroscience program does not antagonize an applicant in my mind. Sometimes prestige means great academics. The overall ambiance is not always the deciding factor. You'd be surprised, but A LOT of people pick a college for the EDUCATION, not the artsiness or the political environment.

By Wembleyfraggle7 (Wembleyfraggle7) on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 02:41 pm: Edit

spirit,
i found a good article while checking my hotmail today about what you're asking:

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/CollegeandFamily/Savingforcollege/P36742.asp

you should check it out, it'll definitely answer your questions...it sure answered mine.

By AnotherDad on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 02:48 pm: Edit

Money isn't everything. Harvard knows that. They are very generous for those who wish to go into education, and they have designated six (I think) career fields where they say they know you won't make money so they promise grants to help people in those fields go to grad school.
(If anyone knows more on this program, please post)

By pisces on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 02:57 pm: Edit

About going to a prestigious school- Personally, I worked really hard for four years and I dont want to end up at the same school that all my not so motivated classmates are going to. Acceptance to a prestigious school is physical manifestation of your hard work.

I'm not saying that a good reputation is my only criteria, I even withdrew my application from a school because I hated it after visiting (i didnt have time to visit before the deadline). I do however, want to finally be in an environment with intelligent and motivated people with similar ambitions to my own.

By Cornellian 07 on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 03:23 pm: Edit

Contrary to what everyone has been saying about applying to all eight ivies, I think it's a reasonable move, because all eight ivies do have something big in common- they are all prestigious schools with an excellent quality of education. And as pisces said, I know some people who only visit the schools after they are accepted to them.

By spirit on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 03:48 pm: Edit

ok ok prestige, fine its nice to boast to people that u are at "harvard" or at "yale". they are recognized names. What about above and beyond that? What if say, i dont like cut-throat competition? Is it foolish to drop these "names" and go thro to find a lesser name, a moderately recognized name? i didnt, and really dont think so. so whatz the advantage? suppose i get offered yale say, and i go there instead of going to the other moderately recognized school, what am i goign to gain?

By spirit on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 03:50 pm: Edit

im a little of a split personality. i have many many many intrests. I want to double major in college. Is it possible for me to say, pursue a career in bussiness administration and then later, go into teaching?

By spirit on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 03:57 pm: Edit

split personality in the sense that i havent figured my main interest out...:)

By artist on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 10:53 pm: Edit

do ivy leauge schools care about outstanding artistic talent?


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