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I was wondering where two canadian schools would rank if they were included in the USNews rankings. The two schools in question are McGill and University of Toronto. A friend of mine has parents that work for the World Bank so he gets a free ride at any school outside of the US.

Any thoughts?

By Colonelangus (Colonelangus) on Monday, March 15, 2004 - 08:59 pm: Edit

see if this helps.

http://ed.sjtu.edu.cn/rank/rank-America.mht

it's quite different from usnews, seeing as how they put UC San Francisco and UC san diego in the top 20.

whatever, rankings are stupid anyways.

By Emilyp114 (Emilyp114) on Monday, March 15, 2004 - 09:26 pm: Edit

McGill and U of T are two of the top schools in Canada. Both are large universities in large cities with a typical 'city' campus. McGill is in Montreal where the major language is French, although you can get by without it. Both are great cities and I would imagine most students would be happy to be at either school.

By Kant1 (Kant1) on Tuesday, March 16, 2004 - 11:30 pm: Edit

I agree that rankings are worthless, however, people place a lot of emphasis on rankings (sadly). Nevertheless, the rankings that you posted were complete crap Thanks for the help though.

I guess I should rephrase my question. What school in the US is equivalent to U of Toronto and what is equivalent to McGill? Another way of saying this is what school in the US will make you indifferent to choosing U of Toronto (or McGill) and XYZ US school (based solely on reputation)?

If any Canadians know which one is generally viewed as better it would be extremely helpful.

Thanks.

By Cpny123 (Cpny123) on Wednesday, March 17, 2004 - 12:37 am: Edit

Did they pull those rankings out of thier a-hole.
Berkeley over most of the ives! Something called Rockafeller U very highly ranked...U WAshington and UC BOulder ranked that high, theyve got to be kidding!

By Stargazrlilychk (Stargazrlilychk) on Wednesday, March 17, 2004 - 01:02 am: Edit

wow they're morons.
i looked at the ranking criteria, and it's based on who has the most nobel laureates and who has had the most distinctive scientific research. that's just like the japanese...u know there's more to study in college then science and technology! haha (there's better be b/c i stink at it)

By Somecanadianguy (Somecanadianguy) on Wednesday, March 17, 2004 - 02:00 am: Edit

Well from the stories floating around Ontario U of T is nothing special, it places almost all its emphasis on its grad program, think Harvard without the presitge or quality, the teachers are supposed to really bad too, many classes (undergrad esp.) are taught by TA's not profs and the teachers aren't very accessible.
The stories are that McGill is a pretty good university, all your classes are in English so leanguage will not be a problem, otherwise academically its strong.
If your looking at a tech school the best is the University of Waterloo, its engineering program is definately the best in Canada and the city is a lot like Canada's Boston, but on a MUCH smaller scale and in a less urban setting.

just my 2 cents, hope it helps

By Emilyp114 (Emilyp114) on Wednesday, March 17, 2004 - 08:00 am: Edit

I don't know what stories this kid has heard but I wouldn't listen to them. U of T has one of the best reputations in Canada. They have worked very hard over the past ten years to build an endowment, similar to U.S. colleges. This has been highly successful and has led to the school being able to finance additional scholarships and research programs, library upgrades, etc. that other Ontario schools haven't been able to do.

The professors are the most experienced at any Ontario university and a very small percentage of classes are taught by grad students. I have never heard of anyone who has difficulty in accessing their prof face to face. I have several family members who have gone, are going, and who work at U of T so I'm familiar with it. I wasn't going to mention that here but I can't let misinformation like Somecanadianguy posted go unchallenged.

U of T runs on the college system, like a lot of excellent large universities. You choose your college when you apply and you remain a part of the college for your four years there. It encompasses your residence and classes, although any U of T student can take any class in any college. It's a grouping of individuals who have similar interests and it works quite well in establishing a sense of community in an urban campus.

U of T is always high in the annual rankings and it, along with Queens and McGill, is considered the Canadian "Ivy". The difference you will find is that some first year courses are huge lectures, this is true. After that, though, the student/prof ratio in classes is similar to anywhere else.

I don't know as much about McGill, but it is also highly respected. It will just be a very different experience going to school in Quebec. Queens is an excellent school as well and is much smaller than either U of T or McGill. It's located in Kingston, Ontario about an equal distance between the other two. And yes, Waterloo has a good engineering program but it depends what type of engineering. Computer engineering is better found at U. of Guelph, and many other types of engineering are much more respected at Queens. Waterloo is nothing at all like Boston. Somecanadianguy, you must be joking. I've been to both and that's just really, really funny.

By Macadamiamin (Macadamiamin) on Wednesday, March 17, 2004 - 11:04 am: Edit

One should not pick a Canadian school over an American because it's a "free ride" in Canada. They're ALREADY incredibly cheap. However some colleges in England would probably be worth the free ride.

By Jennyzsong (Jennyzsong) on Wednesday, March 17, 2004 - 03:37 pm: Edit

I don't want to repeat anything already mentioned, but if you're looking for a job outside of Canada after you graduate, McGill might be the better choice. The name is better known and far more prestigious than the University of Toronto internationally. If you care about these things.

That is just my two cents.

By Compewter (Compewter) on Wednesday, March 17, 2004 - 04:08 pm: Edit

I second McGill. I'll also include Waterloo and Queens if you want Canadian Prestige. Western has a good business school too (but queens may be better). Like Someguy, UofT, I heard is bad for undergrad. I've had first hand experience that it is bad for undergrad, as one of my family members graduated in 1998. I've also heard other stories about it being bad. But I guess some people like it, for some reason. It is one of those where you must visit the campus to look at the student body. Also look at St. Fx (2 of my interviewers from Ivy league went undergrad at St. Fx.).

Oh, and I forgot to mention Waterloo is excellent for math. Largest math faculty in the world I think.

By Somecanadianguy (Somecanadianguy) on Wednesday, March 17, 2004 - 04:32 pm: Edit

U of T rankings by Princeton Review
Rank List Category
#1 Class Discussions Rare
#14 Professors Get Low Marks
#13 Professors Make Themselves Scarce
#13 Least Happy Students

interesting info ehh

i know quite a few people who have gone to U of T too and NONE of them were very satisfied by the profs

Mcgill
Freshman Admission Statistics
Total applicants who are accepted: 60%
Total of accepted students who enroll: 31%

some more interesting info, thats a very high acceptance rate while the enrollment is quite low as well

U of T
Total applicants who are accepted: 43%
Total of accepted students who enroll: 47%
they seem to be quite a bit more selective and the students who are accepted are a lot more happy to go

Average High School GPA: 3.00

not that high a number is it now, esp considering its the avg not the cut off

McGill: Average High School GPA: 3.60
pretty large diff eh?

academic rating: U of T=76, McGill=93
thats not even close

"It's a grouping of individuals who have similar interests and it works quite well in establishing a sense of community in an urban campus."

the students really arent like that, there is very little "community" on campus and anyway only 20% of students live on campus so there isnt that mcuh of an oppourtunity to interact/bond with everyone, even though they do have one of the nicest dorms (hotel converted to one of their dorms is suposed to be nice based on what ive been told)

"U of T is always high in the annual rankings and it, along with Queens and McGill, is considered the Canadian "Ivy". "

definately Queens is a pretty good university and it would be better to go there than to the U of T
McGill i agree is Canadian "Ivy" but U of T is definately not that great a place - look at the STATS

By Jennyzsong (Jennyzsong) on Wednesday, March 17, 2004 - 05:37 pm: Edit

I think one of the reasons Canadian universities have higher acceptance percentages is that there are certain cut-off marks, under which people simply don't apply. Nobody with a low average even thinks of applying to McGill. Whereas if you take say, Harvard, LOADS of under-qualified people apply there just for the hell of it. So McGill is more self-selective. NOT to say that McGill is as difficult as Harvard to get into... not even close. But this accounts for some disparity, in my opinion. Harvard has no cut off marks.

By Emilyp114 (Emilyp114) on Wednesday, March 17, 2004 - 06:01 pm: Edit

Somecanadianguy,

You cannot tell everything about ANY school based on rankings such as you've copied here. It totally depends on what criteria they're using and who they're speaking to, right? That's why most people who are researching colleges don't put a lot of stock in any of those rankings. So much depends on what questions were asked, how they were asked, and what percentage of the student population responded to them. Visiting the schools and talking to real students yourself will give you a much better picture of what a school is like and whether the programs offered there will be what you're looking for.

I hesitate to mention this here but your profile says you're 15. How much experience could you possibly have at 15 about what any universities are like? Your figure of 20% living on campus is wrong, it's closer to 40% in res and the majority of the rest of the student body (not counting commuters) live in apartments in the Annex and the surrounding area. The college system is one of the ways that individuals meet each other in freshman year, in addition to orientation, and then, of course, classes. To say that any school is "not that great of a place" is kind of silly. Every school is going to have people who 'fit' and people who don't. There are many factors in the search for the right school for you, and to make a blanket generalization like that, especially when you're clearly uninformed, is not helpful to anyone.

Jenny,

You're right. Canadian schools publish cut off marks for each of their programs so that kids will know whether it's a viable chance for them or not. With no SAT scores to judge, these cut offs are an important factor in the admissions process.

By Somecanadianguy (Somecanadianguy) on Wednesday, March 17, 2004 - 06:44 pm: Edit

emily

i happen to have quite a lot of experience about the university process. my sister went through this thing last year and she focused on candian schools only. i know a lot of her friends and quite a few of them ended up at U of T since its about a half hour from where i live. of the 10 or so ppl there only one of them is satisfied, the rest complain quite a lot. compare this to students at other universities, like McMaster, which isnt the best school on the planet but most of the student are satisfied.
i know these arent large 'survey groups' but its still a comparison.
i understand rating arent that important but even if the info was limited its a large difference in the numbers and some stats (like avg gpa) are just that, STATS which are of the entire pop (coming from the university itself) and 3.0 to 3.6 is quite large gap adn the acceptance/enrollment rates also have quite a large difference

By Emilyp114 (Emilyp114) on Wednesday, March 17, 2004 - 07:02 pm: Edit

One thing you'll learn about college students is that they all complain at one time or another. My point remains that you can't base your decision on stats and rankings alone. Every school is the right school for SOME students. U of T has close to 50,000 students and continues to have increasing numbers of applicants every year. This wouldn't happen if the majority of students were unhappy with their choices. Challenging universities with excellent academic programs tend to have larger numbers of students who are likely to complain. Schools such as McMaster which has a lesser academic reputation is more likely to have students who are 'happier' with their environment because they're not as academically challenged. It's the way of the world in college life. You'll find that out for yourself in a few years.

By Somecanadianguy (Somecanadianguy) on Wednesday, March 17, 2004 - 07:51 pm: Edit

how come students at MIT are "generally" happy even though they have one of, if not the, hardest undergrad program on the planet?
anyway McMaster still has quite a difficult program, in Canada most of the univeristies are quite balanced compared to those in the States, another thing is that students in engineering are happier than those in the humanities (engineering has almost twice the course load than humanities)?

anyway i guess we'll all like some colleges more than others and dislike some that others will love

By Jooolia (Jooolia) on Tuesday, April 06, 2004 - 12:04 am: Edit

as a canadian (from around toronto) who's been spending the last year stressing over applications, i know a lot about ontario universities (and mcgill). i can't really compare them to american schools, but here's the inside info i have on the top 3 canadian schools (i applied to all of them):

u of t:
both of my parents are toronto graduates and loved it. it's definitely well respected, especially for commerce. the science and engineering prgrams are also really good. the campus is really nice and toronto can be a pretty fun city. however, personally i'd rank toronto under mcgill and queens. it's nothing TOO special in comparison. i don't plan on going there if i get in, partly because i'd be forced to live at home due to toronto being an extremely expensive city to live in for canadians... not so much for americans, so you shouldn't have a problem. also, the atmosphere seems to be a bit more serious than the other 2, and nothing about it really stands out to me. i think i'd get sick of toronto after a while, too. just my opinion.

queens:
probably my second choice, although it's definitely known across canada as being stuck up and racist. if you have decent marks and you're white, you shouldn't have much difficulty getting in. it's pretty sad that way. the students generally don't seem to have anything up their asses in particular though, my brother goes there for engineering so i know what the social scene is like. it's a fun school and very well respected, probably moreso than toronto. what else can i tell you... the food is complete ••••, housing is cheap but you'll definitely end up in a shithole second year (have fun trying to fix it up.. nah, its not too bad), beware of kilts (strong scottish background), very small town that tends to be kind of dead on holidays when the students have gone home, the townies will hate you. it's great if you like small towns, and it has a really nice campus. pretty much all programs are really good, commerce being at the top again and really tough to get into.

mcgill:
my dream school. if i get into this one i will soil my pants the second i find out (they don't like ontarians). everyone i know who's gone there has loved it. i'm biased, but it's perfect in every way. montreal is awesome (i have family living there so i go a few times a year). it's my favourite city in canada...the perfect size, influenced by europe, much cleaner than toronto, very easy to get by without any french. i'm guessing it's the equivalent of an ivy league school. of course theres much less hype since it's canadian, but the quality is really up there. very highly respected around the world. it's known best for science (what i applied to). the campus is amazing. ah, everything about it is amazing. it's the only school i actually want to go to - i'm pretty pessimistic and i've found something wrong with every school i applied to but mcgill. i don't know much about the programs there other than science, and i don't know what you're looking for exactly, but it's a really good school.

anyhow, i think that covers what i know. i hope it helps a bit more than all those useless stats. good luck, and don't apply to mcgill science - i need to minimize the competition.

By Mike555 (Mike555) on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 11:48 am: Edit

somecanadianguy:

You are using princetonreview to evaluate Canadian universities? That's just a laugh. Let me copy and paste you some other stats from princetonreview.

UWATERLOO
59 selectivity
4.00 entering GPA

UWINDSOR
59 selectivity
0.00 entering GPA

what the hell is that? By the way you copy & pasted Toronto's selectivity wrong... it's 82 (which is also wrong). And Toronto's entering class GPA is not 3.00 GPA... that's what happens when schools don't report data. Look at MacLean's for accurate entering GPAs since they are the ones who survey Canadian universities thoroughly, and you see that Toronto and McGill's entering class GPAs are almost the same.

By Zl123 (Zl123) on Tuesday, September 14, 2004 - 09:42 am: Edit

Princetonreview has very faulty data. Wow that is misleading. Waterloo having a 4.0 average entry GPA? Thought 85.5% was more like 3.0... that's what the school reported to MacLean's by the way. Here is the report by MacLean's 2001:

Overall Ranking

Toronto - 1
UBC - 2
Queens - 3
McGill - 4
Alberta - 5
Western - 6
Montreal - 7
McMaster - 8
Dalhousie - 9
Ottawa - 10
Saskatchewan - 11
Calgary - 12
Laval - 12
Sherbrooke - 14
Manitoba - 15

Reputational Survey

Toronto - 1
McGill - 2
Queens - 3
Alberta - 4
McMaster - 5
UBC - 6
Western - 7
Calgary - 8
Dalhousie - 9
Montreal - 10
Laval - 11
Sherbrooke - 12
Ottawa - 13
Saskatchewan - 14
Manitoba - 15

Alumni Support - % who made gifts over 5 year period

1. Toronto - 24.8
2. Western - 24.2
3. McGill - 20.1
4. Queens - 18.5
5. UBC - 18.3
6. Calgary - 17.7
7. Manitoba - 16.9
8. Dalhousie - 15.0
9. Montreal - 14.4
10. Alberta - 13.4
11. Sherbrooke - 13.4
12. McMaster - 13.2
13. Ottawa - 13.1
14. Saskatchewan - 11.8
15. Laval - 9.5

Average Entering Grades

1. UMontreal - 87.9%
2. UBC - 87.7%
3. Queens - 87.5%
4. Toronto - 85.9%
5. Laval - 85.3%
6. McGill - 85.3%
7. Saskatchewan - 85%
8. Sherbrooke - 84.5%
9. Western - 84%
10. Dalhousie - 83.9%
11. Alberta - 83.4%
12. Ottawa - 82.4%
13. McMaster - 82.2%
14. Calgary - 81.2%
15. Manitoba - 80.5%

% International Students

1. McGill - 19.0
2. Laval - 8.9
3. Montreal - 8.1
4. Ottawa - 6.8
5. McMaster - 6.3
6. Alberta - 6.2
7. Toronto - 6.1
8. Western - 6.0
9. Dalhousie - 5.0
10. Queens - 3.7
11. UBC - 3.5
12. Manitoba - 2.7
13. Saskatchewan - 2.3
14. Sherbrooke - 2.1
15. Calgary - 1.6

% Classes with more than 250 students for 1st and 2nd year students

1. McMaster - 5.3
2. Queens - 3.2
3. McGill - 3.0
4. Toronto - 2.3
5. UBC - 2.1
6. Calgary - 1.5
7. Alberta - 1.4
8. Western - 1.4
9. Saskatchewan - 0.5
10. Ottawa - 0.5
11. Manitoba - 0.4
12. Laval - 0.4
13. Montreal - 0.3
14. Dalhousie - 0.2
15. Sherbrooke - 0.0

Library - total holdings (millions)

1. Toronto - 14.263
2. Alberta - 9.638
3. UBC - 8.152
4. Western - 6.636
5. Calgary - 5.871
6. Montreal - 5.295
7. Queens - 5.193
8. McGill - 4.639
9. Saskatchewan - 4.286
10. Laval - 4.277
11. Ottawa - 4.014
12. Manitoba - 3.136
13. McMaster - 2.989
14. Dalhousie - 1.848
15. Sherbrooke - 1.721

% of Budget devoted to Student Services

1. Toronto - 6.21
2. UBC - 6.04
3. Western - 5.11
4. Alberta - 4.78
5. Ottawa - 4.73
6. Montreal - 4.35
7. Calgary - 4.28
8. Queens - 4.25
9. Sherbrooke - 4.06
10. Dalhousie - 4.06
11. McGill - 3.91
12. Laval - 3.89
13. Saskatchewan - 3.53
14. Manitoba - 3.20
15. McMaster - 3.11

% Budget devoted to Scholarships & Bursaries

1. Toronto - 12.24
2. Queens - 11.89
3. Alberta - 11.68
4. Western - 10.68
5. McGill - 10.00
6. Calgary - 9.95
7. UBC - 9.38
8. Montreal - 8.71
9. Ottawa - 8.50
10. Dalhousie - 8.43
11. Sherbrooke - 8.11
12. McMaster - 8.02
13. Laval - 7.43
14. Manitoba - 4.71
15. Saskatchewan - 4.37

Number of professors per 1000 who have won national awards

1. Toronto - 10.1
2. McGill - 9.9
3. Queens - 9.3
4. UBC - 8.8
5. Montreal - 7.9
6. McMaster - 7.6
7. Laval - 6.0
8. Alberta - 5.7
9. Manitoba - 5.3
10. Ottawa - 5.3
11. Calgary - 4.5
12. Western - 4.2
13. Sherbrooke - 3.8
14. Dalhousie - 3.2
15. Saskatchewan - 2.2

Size of Grant per eligible full time faculty member in social sciences / humanities

1. Toronto - 16,273
2. UBC - 14.483
3. McGill - 13,726

Number of grants per 100 eligible full time faculty member in social sciences

1. Toronto - 52.95
2. McGill - 50.12
3. Ubc - 42.27

Size of grant per eligible full time faculty member in medical / science

1. Toronto - 116,750
2. McGill - 101,726
3. UBC - 97,628

Number of grants per 100 eligible full time faculty in medical/science

1. Toronto - 200.65
2. Alberta - 164.36
3. UBC - 159.47
4. McGill - 153.77

So as you can see, more alumni donate back to UofT than any other university in Canada. A 1 in 4 ratio as compared to McGill's 1 in 5. Obviously they loved it there.