|By grrrr on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 12:45 am: Edit|
I have to say, it irks me when I see people who are:
-Extremely talented musically
-and Extraordinarily athletic
in my school. YES!!! I AM JEALOUS!!!
This girl accepted to Yale from my school is number 1 in her class, is in the all-state band for clarinet, and has played varsity soccer and track for 3 years. I have to wonder HOW DO THEY DO IT???
|By asdf on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 12:51 am: Edit|
They're naturally talented, what can I say? Go sue your parents.
|By incognito on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 12:55 am: Edit|
asdf is incorrec. Ppl are'nt like, genetically talented or anything!! They are raised that way. A piece of advice for grrrr, start working harder. We live by a rather simple equation that, in most cases, works. Here it is:
When there's a will, there's a way.
|By Sabzevarian (Sabzevarian) on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 01:08 am: Edit|
No. They can be genetically talented. And they can be raised that way. It's nature vs nurture, and you could say each contributes 50% of a person's abilites (for the average person, and I am pulling these numbers out of my head)
|By Thedad (Thedad) on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 01:15 am: Edit|
As a preliminary filter, I don't pay attention
to anyone complaining about competition until
they've done the basics, like more or less eliminating television and hanging out at the mall from their lives, a couple of examples of the time equivalent of junk food calories.
Between school, homework, and EC's, if you're aiming for the top, you don't have that time to give away.
Getting it all done and still getting enough sleep is the major battle, imnsvho.
|By incognito on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 01:24 am: Edit|
Sabzevarian, you say that genetics are involved somehow. I'm not just completely trying to shut you down here or put you on the spot, but would you please explain....
|By Fender1 (Fender1) on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 01:29 am: Edit|
I agree w/Sab
Some people are just born with better hand-eye cordination, better running ability, stuff like that.
|By incognito on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 01:31 am: Edit|
well...what about intelligence and IQ and stuff...
is THAT genetic?
|By Fender1 (Fender1) on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 01:48 am: Edit|
might be to a small or large degree. I don't know honestly.
|By asdf on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 01:49 am: Edit|
Researchers have been able to link bad behavior to the kids of criminals. Even though some criminals may be in jail, their kids tend to be bad like their parents regardless of the fact that they have never met each other.
Intelligence is also related genetically. Part of the supporting evidence for legacies is that the kids inherit intelligence from their parents. Of course, if you know your Punnett squares, it's not guaranteed that intelligence will be passed on (George W. Bush, for example).
Like Sabzevarian said, the success of many people is due to both genetics and the way they were brought up.
|By incognito on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 01:51 am: Edit|
But they havent PROVEN intelligence to be GENETIC, right?
|By asdf on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 01:54 am: Edit|
Probably not until they map the human genome. That'll be in less than a decade, I believe.
|By incognito on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 01:56 am: Edit|
Hmmm...i see. But do you THINK its genetic?
|By Dyip10 (Dyip10) on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 01:56 am: Edit|
It has partially to do with genetics. Sports for example. I've seen it when it takes one person 1 year to accomplish what a person what trained for 3 years did. It has to do with genetics definetly. Sure how you are raised is the most important part. But professional athletes, for example, the difference between them and everyone else has some touch of natural talent. Also some people learn a whole lot faster then others, and can easily get grades more then others.
|By asdf on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 02:04 am: Edit|
I believe that intelligence is somewhat heriditary. When you see the children of doctors and lawyers, they tend to be smart. However, they may not have the same work ethics as they may be raised differently from their parents. But they still have intelligence that is close to their parents'.
If you didn't pay attention to the news about 2 or 3 years ago, scientists were debating about the ethics genetically engineering your kids to be smart, athletic, talented, and good-looking. So you see, scientists know that intelligence is related genetically, but they question whether it is moral to use technology to make all people smart.
|By veena on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 06:10 am: Edit|
BTW intelligence is hereditary... ok so u guys havent studied genetics..but yes it is hereditary...both parents have 50% contribution. Each parent has, say , 2 genes for intelligence. Suppose one gene says "brilliant" and the other says "ok". and for ur other parent one gene says "Good" and one says "bad". You will get eitehr "brilliant" or "ok" as well as either "good" or "bad". so if u have an "ok" and "bad" ur somewhat mediocre... if u have a "brilliant" and a "good" ur abs genius. I mean.. thatz the way it works.
but that is by nature. finally the person u are depends on who u make urself to be. ITS IN UR HANDS. and according to me.. im not srue about this one...but some flair does come geneticaly. I have never drawn/painted in my life. But my mom is really really really good at it. So when i pick up a pencil and start sketching it comes out really well. whether that is genetic or cuz of observation im not sure. Anyway... As mentioned previously in this post.. nurture has a lot to do with it. Its how u tap what has been given to u. as one of my teachers used to say...genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration. U follow that... and u get where u want. U def. dont have to be master of all trades to achieve ur goal. Achieve what U want. dont bother about others.
|By veena on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 06:11 am: Edit|
(btw.. just to add..not all genes work that way.. those are co-dominant genes... im quite sure taht intelligence works taht way...mendellian genes are a totally diferent story....)
|By aa on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 08:34 am: Edit|
I am like one of the best of my class...8 years tae kwon do, and 2 years track. I am an eight grader. I think the only way to keep up with everything is to arrange schedules. Everything fits just sacrifice some sleep.
I don't get this right because in my school this year one guy enter to harvard and last year also another guy. They didn't do any sports but they were in other clubs. One leaned to Drama and the other guy was in TRI-M (like NHS for music).
But I think that like there is no exact way a university want people to be to be accepted. They want a diverse class.
|By ash on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 08:34 am: Edit|
Intelligence is partially a function of your genetics and partially a function of your culture. Take a look at why Asian people generally do well in school. Their culture values education over lesser things such as sports and jobs which caucasian people seem to value more.
|By aa on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 08:55 am: Edit|
how should i try to be?
|By jamu86 on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 09:13 am: Edit|
Veena-well ummm considering genetics is a major part of biology and America most schools are required to take Bio, we have learned our genetics. Anywayz, Intelligence is not as simple as you think, you can't just use Mendellian genetics to work it out, in fact most of our genes in our body work through more complex methods. Besides, if it was that simple, then why is nurture vs. nature such a huge topic in psychology.
"Each parent has, say , 2 genes for intelligence. Suppose one gene says "brilliant" and the other says "ok". and for ur other parent one gene says "Good" and one says "bad". You will get eitehr "brilliant" or "ok" as well as either "good" or "bad". so if u have an "ok" and "bad" ur somewhat mediocre... if u have a "brilliant" and a "good" ur abs genius. I mean.. thatz the way it works. "
--NO! THAT'S NOT HOW IT WORKS!!!!!!!!!!
|By veena on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 10:44 am: Edit|
ok listen i realize thatz not exactly how it works... but i just gave a really really really simplified version....cuz i kno that if i dint kno anything about genes, i wouldnt understand even what i said over there... or maybe im just plain dumb...
|By genetics. on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 10:55 am: Edit|
Intelligence is genetic. Haven't you ever seen people in your class who study hours and hours for a test? And then there are always a few people who just walk in to the test, without having studied or anything, and they still do better than the person who studied their butt off.
|By veena on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 10:56 am: Edit|
ok im sorry im pissed off..but listen.. ijust kind of almost made an anology out there.. i just kind of wanted to be explicit about how genes DOES play a role in intelligence. FOR GOD SAKES I WASNT TEACHIGN IT TO A BUNCH OF AP BIO Students. suppose u dint kno any maths at all and i come up to u and start talkin about calculus are u gonna understand? if i start talkin and givin u integral signs and differential equations are u gonna understand? Or what if i start differential calculuz by talkin about how a chord tends to become a tangent? no .. u wont.. i wouldnt either. Its easier to start wtih a graph, divide it into some 50 columns and say that this dividing is what ur doing when u differentiate.. u are takign a SMALL part of x blah blah blah. thatz exactly what i intended to do. i dint not intend to explain genetics and biology nor did i intend to show off my knowledge. And im sorry about it..i dint realize that u ppl do so much of genetics. my pea-brain doesnt seem to be functioning at the moment. ARGH....
|By veena on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 10:59 am: Edit|
oh btw genetics.. just one thign.....when ppl say they havent studied..dont belive them.. some just lie for the heck of lying.. and try to show off... and others.. well thier definition of "studying" is very different from others.. for one guy reading a coupla lesssons is studying... for another sitting with the book for 10 hrs is studying. so if the latter one reads a couple of lesons he will say he hasnt studied at all. and then there is the catagory fo ppl who lie....
|By veena on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 11:00 am: Edit|
oh one more thing......i dint mean to put u down when i said that u havent learnt genetics.. i just thought it wasnt included in ur syllabus. im sorry about that... i dint realize.
|By Pat on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 11:20 am: Edit|
three words: Get::ver:::It
...stop comparing yourself w/ others! Who knows you might just be as good as those "prodogies" out there.
|By Thedad (Thedad) on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 11:20 am: Edit|
There's been a slide here from the original
question. Everyone is talking about intelligence
when the original question was about performance.
The former is only one factor of the latter.
|By incognito on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 12:30 pm: Edit|
Sorry about that one. I was just curious. So, the original question. HOW DO THEY DO IT. here are a few words for ya:
-lots and lots of time
-a decent environment
PS: dont worry veena; i appreciate your thoughtful input
|By Jason817 (Jason817) on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 12:37 pm: Edit|
You can tell intelligence is hereditary. People never study and get straight A's and there are those who study a lot and don't get all A's.
|By incognito on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 12:42 pm: Edit|
Dont forget about environmental effects on the mind and how your environment can subconciously alter the way the THINK (and therefor alter your intelligence)
^^The above is just a theory; i'm not denying the genetics arguement here; i'm just saying that there are alternative possiblities to this "I GET As" example^^
|By mo on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 01:06 pm: Edit|
i agree that culture plays a strong role such as in the case for asians. there's a reason why asians are so smart, they've always been pushed to be that way. an asian who doesn't get good grades is a social pariah and the stigma associated to it all has contributed to that high-striving environment.
|By Sabzevarian (Sabzevarian) on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 02:30 pm: Edit|
Well the genetic aspect would be someone born with very good memory (even picture memory, etc). Most of those super smart kids on tv owe their 'intelligence' to their genes. They weren't born "smart." Their brain can just retain more information, right off the bat.
And the intelligence vs performance debate is a highly controversial one. A computer can retain and return a lot of information. Does that make it intelligent? So does regurgitating a sheer amount of useless information, ie on those tv shows, make one 'smart'?
One example of nature vs nurture would be someone being born with aggressive tendancies (less control of their emotions). In he is raised poorly, he might become a criminal. If he is raised properly, he might become a perfect citizen, releasing his extra energy/anger in sports or other activities.
I am also reminded of a quote from James Lovelock. I can't remember it exactly, but basically, he said, in poker, do you admire the person who draws the perfect hand by luck, or the person who draws the poor hand and still manages to play a good game with it?
|By Thedad (Thedad) on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 02:56 pm: Edit|
The bit about the person playing a poor hand
well is one of the underlying rationales
for affirmative action. Not the only one, but
one of them.
Anyone here read GUNS, GERMS, AND STEEL?
One of the author's interesting side conclusions
was that the inhabitants of New Guinea or some
other godforsaken place like that are probably,
as a group, the most intelligent people on
earth. Geography dealt them a crap hand in
terms of resources, etc., to develop a
Great book, btw. Something that all hyperachieving pre-college wonks should have on their recreational reading list.
|By mmm on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 03:39 pm: Edit|
I'm bright and my mom and dad are both average.
|By asdf on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 03:47 pm: Edit|
Good for you.
|By Jason817 (Jason817) on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 04:04 pm: Edit|
I'm asian. My parents push me like hell and I still do bad.
|By tim on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 04:04 pm: Edit|
intelligence and learning capacity is genetics, knowledge and work ethic is environmental
|By incognito on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 04:22 pm: Edit|
this is a very interesting conversation. So is your performance on the SAT I determined by GENES??
|By Sabzevarian (Sabzevarian) on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 04:32 pm: Edit|
They have to push you properly Jason. If they put too much pressure on you, the stress keeps you from your maximum potential. You need a certain amount of anxiety for maximum potential, but too much anxiety reduces your output. The ratio of anxiety varies for every person. For some people, it needs to be very low, for others, it needs to be very high.
|By Sabzevarian (Sabzevarian) on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 04:34 pm: Edit|
Yes, I read GUNS, GERMS, and STEEL. Although one of the main reasons he said they were more 'intelligent' is because they don't watch tv (they don't have it or its very rare) and thus they have much longer attention spans than the average industrialized person. They also have to know a lot of information for survival.
|By Jason817 (Jason817) on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 04:34 pm: Edit|
that explains it. overkill.
|By Sabzevarian (Sabzevarian) on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 04:37 pm: Edit|
Taking the SAT when you are in 5th grade and getting a perfect score is most likely because of your genes (in the short span of time you have lived, your incredible memory has taken in everything necessary to ace the SAT). Taking the SAT during highschool and getting a very high score/acing it-after memorizing thousands of words/reading a lot of books-and working on math for hours, is obviously from your work ethic.
I also know a lot of people who have that initial advantage, and are incredibly hard workers. So I don't want to sound like I'm being discriminatory against the people born with an extra advantage who work hard. I also don't mind seeing people who are disadvantaged, as long as they work HARD, and not coast off the fact that people will feel sorry for them. What I do hate is seeing someone waste their full potential (and I see it all the time).
|By Thedad (Thedad) on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 05:45 pm: Edit|
Sabzeverian, I'd have to go back and re-read, but I'd reformulate your post to say that the environment stresses the population in a way that promotes development of intelligence.
Good point about TV and attention span, this in
addition to it being the time equivalent of "junk food."
|By incognito on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 05:53 pm: Edit|
...so, in other words, you ppl are saying that environment plays a MAJOR role in intelligence, right?...
|By sid mathur on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 05:54 pm: Edit|
i dont think so. I think it's all in the DNA
|By gattaca on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 06:01 pm: Edit|
I am a genetically perfect person, but I don't rub it in other people's faces.
|By Jason817 (Jason817) on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 06:09 pm: Edit|
|By Thedad (Thedad) on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 07:45 pm: Edit|
incognito, I think the nature vs. nurture argument is kinda silly. Nature provides the base; nurture provides what is built on the base.
|By Duh on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 10:17 pm: Edit|
Haven't they already mapped the Human Genome?
|By ete on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 10:56 pm: Edit|
no.... do you know how big it is?
people are beginning to patent individual loci on the chromosomes though.
|By asdf on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 11:26 pm: Edit|
They're expecting to complete the mapping sometime this year.
|By incognito on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 11:33 pm: Edit|
what will happen when they map it??
|By asdf on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 11:53 pm: Edit|
We'll be able to find out everything that's related genetically.
|By asdf on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 11:56 pm: Edit|
More info here:
|By veena on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 06:26 am: Edit|
well...... SAT 1 to me is one-day cricket. It really depends on how u feel that day...dont we all have days when EVERY abs. tough maths sum we do comes out right? when the rest of the class is befuddled and ur bright like a shining star...
i always thoguht that intelligence is more than memory.....theres a lot of analysis involved.
and acordign to me.. fget the genetics.....environment has much more of a role to play. ever wondered why first generation college kids get preference? i think its reallly just.. cuz conversations at home, and everythign at home depends on ur paretns. if they arent educated well, the conversations generally take a nose-dip down intellectually.. and the absense of such convos really affects the kid. ive seen a couple of kids that way. chances of success of kids of uneducated parents is considerably lower... its very sad actually
(thanx for that incognito......)
|By MensaMom on Wednesday, January 29, 2003 - 10:15 pm: Edit|
Latest research study I heard about (2002) stated that intelligence is inherited - passed through the mother's mitochondria. If that's true I can be smug.
|By an idiot for life?? on Wednesday, January 29, 2003 - 10:19 pm: Edit|
does that mean i'm an idiot for life?
|By asdf on Wednesday, January 29, 2003 - 10:32 pm: Edit|
fukk the bullsh1t
|By incognito on Wednesday, January 29, 2003 - 10:38 pm: Edit|
what?? I am i and idiot for life or not??
|By Lucky (Lucky) on Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 01:17 am: Edit|
I too believe it's pretty evenly split between nature and nurture. Having innate genetic ability does not necessarily mean that you're a candidate for the Olympics, American Youth Symphony or the Ivy League, but it's important to realize also that if you lack what some consider to be the ideal proportions of genes, this doesn't mean you're automatically excluded.
While I generally think that nature and nurture are similar in their effects in producing a strong student/athlete/musician, nurture is particularly key since all the natural ability in the world can't make up for the drive one gets from the support of caring friends, family and community members. These people can keep you motivated when times get tough and cheer you when you're succeeding.
In HS I was all-state in Lacrosse and nationally ranked in Tennis as well as Student Body President with a perfect 4.0 and high Board scores, as well as lead vocalist and guitarist in my own band and a self-taught symphony pianist. It's likely 50/50, genes and jeans (half family endowments and half good ol'-fashioned hard work).
Look, the fact is, MOST people will never be Olympic gold medalists, Ivy League scholars, nor Britney Spears when it comes to musical success. Time management is one factor, realizing your abilities is another. Definitely take advantage of what your parents gave you and work hard anyway, but keep in mind that everybody can't do everything. Doing your best is all anyone can ask.
All the best,
|By Thedad (Thedad) on Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 01:44 am: Edit|
Not being Britney Spears when it comes to musical success is a definite plus in my book.
|By Genoma on Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 01:50 am: Edit|
Genes code for specific proteins, not "intelligence" or whatever. Simple attributes may be easier to predict genetically, but I am sure something as complicated as intelligence, with its many nuances, is related to MANY diffferent proteins and thus genes. Therefore, though it is affected by genetics, intelligence is not as cut and dry as parents smart->kid smart.
|By sauce on Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 01:57 am: Edit|
True. That's why some families have black sheep.
|By meryl on Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 02:12 am: Edit|
...and LOVE the *sauce*
|By Ksinha (Ksinha) on Thursday, April 03, 2003 - 07:25 am: Edit|
Genes for intelligence is in the X chromosome and therfore be only carried by women to their sons; daughters can have them from either parents.
I believe the link is a co-dominance and therefore likely to be contaminated over a period of time. Just having them are not enough. Environmental, sociological factors will affect the presence of these individuals. Others just have to work hard at it to become intelligent.
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