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ARGHHHHHH
I'm so angry, I have worked so hard in High School. Yet he didn't list a freaking Ivy League/Stanford/Top School, etc while we discussed about college. He talked about schools like Emory, Case Western, Tulane, Wash U at St. Louis, Georgia Tech. I mean, they're all right. But I want to go to a prestigious school (don't we all, you know what I mean)

I'm a junior, and here are my credentials so far. I go to a good high school (top ten in the nation, and I have a 91 gpa.(unfortunately, this is only top 40 %)
I have gotten 770 on chemistry, got 3rd at the local American Chemistry Society Test (1k scholarship), 800 on both biology and world history.
I have 5's on the World History and Chemistry AP and a 4 for Computer Science.
Played piano for 13 years, won 3rd division a couple times at the local city competition, recital may this year. I have been on model un for 3 years, academic team on 2, science and math club for 3 years, jets (equivalent to mu alpha)for three years, won various prizes (1st place chem, 2nd place latin, etc) started a go society.


Actually, this year was kind of bad. Since I'm taking 5 APs (I'm confident I can get 4's and 5's on all of them), I only have a 87 average 1st semester.

Do I have a chance, at all, into the ivies?

By Dmxdawg (Dmxdawg) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 08:54 pm: Edit

Also, chacnes for:

I guess:

Brown
Cornell
Columbia
Washington U
Berkeley
Stanford
Rice (I live in Houston, so that's a plus)
Emory
Ponoma
John hopkins

By Mafmaf22 (Mafmaf22) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 09:00 pm: Edit

"He talked about schools like Emory, Case Western, Tulane, Wash U at St. Louis, Georgia Tech. I mean, they're all right. But I want to go to a prestigious school "

Wash U is pretty damn prestigous, i mean it is like #9!!! Thats as good as/ better than a few ivy's

By Mafmaf22 (Mafmaf22) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 09:00 pm: Edit

"He talked about schools like Emory, Case Western, Tulane, Wash U at St. Louis, Georgia Tech. I mean, they're all right. But I want to go to a prestigious school "

Wash U is pretty damn prestigous, i mean it is like #9!!! Thats as good as/ better than a few ivy's

By Deeny1414 (Deeny1414) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 09:02 pm: Edit

If you're only in the top 40%, i think your counselor may be right...Why do you want to go to a school w/ "prestige" anyway? What does that really mean? Why don't you look at schools that offer good programs in what you want to do and not rely on the 8 schools in this country that you seem to consider prestigious.

By Dhonch (Dhonch) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 09:02 pm: Edit

40% means you have zero chance, unless you're an extremely rare candidate (1/1000).

By Voigtrob (Voigtrob) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 09:08 pm: Edit

91 is only top 40%?!?!! WHOA grade inflation craziness.

By Benjamin (Benjamin) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 09:08 pm: Edit

Geez, last time I checked Emory, Washington, Georgia Tech were pretty prestigious...oh well.

By Mitwannabe (Mitwannabe) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 09:09 pm: Edit

dont be ignorant

By Dmxdawg (Dmxdawg) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 09:09 pm: Edit

My school doesn't show rank, percentile, because it's so competitive.

By Candi1657 (Candi1657) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 09:12 pm: Edit

91 avg. puts you at 40%...my 92.66 puts me at 3%...sheesh...

By Dmxdawg (Dmxdawg) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 09:17 pm: Edit

It's not grade inflation. My school is just so competitive. Over 3/4s are commended scholars for the national merit scholarhip. The median SAT is 1450.

By Deeny1414 (Deeny1414) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 09:25 pm: Edit

Whatever, I think your counselor has the right idea, and he has put some pretty prestigious schools on your list. Do some research and you might be presently surprised and alter you view of what it means to be prestigious.

By Dmxdawg (Dmxdawg) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 09:47 pm: Edit

Deeny, you are right.
I think I acted a bit rash. But the way he listed the colleges- my parents were really surprised because they haven't heard of them, and later they reprimanded me for not working hard enough.

However, do I have a good chance of going to the aforementioned colleges?

By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 09:50 pm: Edit

Sigh. Another year begins. Juniors will soon be busting down these boards saying they will die if they don't go to a "prestigious" or "name" school by which they mean: only HARVARD, YALE or PRINCETON will do.

Save yourself a lot of grief right now by realizing that getting into any of the "prestige" schools you have in mind is a lottery shot at best.

The good news, however, is that your GC has suggested some excellent schools for you. But don't be fooled, they're still prestigious AND they're still REACHES for most people. Make sure you also find some safeties that you would be happy with.

If you need more convincing, read through the posts in the "individual schools" section here - look at the stories of rejection and acceptance for both the "prestige" schools you think you want and the schools your GC suggested. You'll soon get a clearer idea of why your GC is suggesting that you be realistic yet still aim for some darned good schools.

And, consider why you want to apply to "prestige" schools in the first place. If it's because you think you'll be embarrassed to tell people you're not applying to Harvard, Yale, etc. then consider this: it will be a lot more embarrassing if you're rejected by those schools next year and have no solid back up.

That's my prestige rant for this year.

By Mzhang23 (Mzhang23) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 09:52 pm: Edit

You have a shot at the ivies. Keep your GPA up.

By Elzbieta777 (Elzbieta777) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 11:20 pm: Edit

i understand where you're coming from dmx. i went to one of those crazy hard high schools where everyone goes to ivies and gets 1500s and has a 4.0.

and i understand about the need to have a big name. as shallow as it sounds, when you've worked so hard for so long, you want it to pay off, and you want everyone around you to know it paid off as well (by going to a big name school).

but about the top 40% thing, if your high school is as good as you say it is, then the colleges should recognize it and realize that top 40% is pretty damn good. if it's top ten in the nation, then most of your colleges probably have accepted people from there before and are aware of the difficulty of the program.

also what's your SATs? best of luck to you.

By Mitwannabe (Mitwannabe) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 01:55 am: Edit

actually, i retract my earlier statement "dont be ignorant" after realizing that you are just like me. ive worked my @ss off and i want something big to show for it, i apologize, i hope we all get to go somewhere we deserve. pz

By Mitwannabe (Mitwannabe) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 01:56 am: Edit

actually, i retract my earlier statement "dont be ignorant" after realizing that you are just like me. ive worked my butt off and i want something big to show for it, i apologize, i hope we all get to go somewhere we deserve. pz

By Mitwannabe (Mitwannabe) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 01:57 am: Edit

darnit, i thought it wouldnt let me post b/c of the @ss, but it did, so i replaced it with a simliar term butt, haha, that just made my day

By Chicken (Chicken) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 02:36 am: Edit

don't listen to your college counselor. apply for all the ivies. regular decision is pretty random among the decent candidates. you're a decent to strong candidate.

By Usnewsranker (Usnewsranker) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 05:28 am: Edit

To the OP: If you are planning to go to graduate/medical school, realize that your undergraduate school will not be that important. In fact, you would often have a better shot from WUSTL than from Harvard provided the same GPA and test scores, because WUSTL wouldn't have as many arrogant over-achievers. Actually, this mostly applies to Medical School and Law School admissions, but still. Go where the money's at. If you have money, go where you are accepted and don't worry about it.

By Gianscolere (Gianscolere) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 09:04 am: Edit

what is this top 10 school?

By Hoping (Hoping) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 09:18 am: Edit

i sympathise with you. but in a best case scenario any and i mean any of the ivys is a crap shoot even with perfect scores, so what do you have to lose? also your hard work will pay off!! it always does,and any school you wind up in will be a great school because you ll make the most of it . you dont need an ivy to be successful! we just make our selves think that good luck

By Collegeparent (Collegeparent) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 09:31 am: Edit

SOmething else to think about: an estimated 750,000 more kids are applying to colleges than did just four years ago; also, if the sophomores now in college applied to those same colleges today, they probably wouldn't get in.

An example is the AP courses: once, they were used to place students in advanced college courses or even counted for college credit; now they more often than not are used to separate one high achieving student from a higher achieving student.

It is all further evidence that the competition has become even more intense. There are more students applying to the same colleges, none of which is adding to their enrollments.

Subsequently, other colleges and universities are clamoring for those highly qualified students and raising the bar in doing so. In order to get into those top 20 colleges and universities you have to be someone extremely special and offer something extraordinary -- and still there's nothing to guarantee admission.

Listen to your GC; you're getting good advice. The GC knows that because of the sheer number of students applying to college has raised the bar for everyone, it means some students have to lower their sights a bit. You may wish and want something because you've worked hard and think you deserve it, but so do the tens of thousands of other kids just like you who want the same thing.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 10:03 am: Edit

Dmxdawg,grab a copy of the latest USN&WR. Or go to a Borders or Barnes & Noble and look for the big, fat USN&WR book. Take a look at the class rank statistics for accepted students. You will find that more than 90% of the kids accepted are in the top 10% or HIGHER. You may find that NO ONE is accepted in the bottom half or even bottm 75% of the class. The first thing most schools examine is the curriculum of the applicant and the class rank. If the school does not rank, they generally assign a rank from charts that match your school to a similar school ( small, catholic, with 90% going to college; large, suburban with 70% going to college; prep school with everyone going to college and many to highly selective schools). This information counts very, very heavily and unles they can come up with a really good reason to mitigate a low class rank, you are out the door with a one person read most of the time. That is why your GC probably did not bring up the ivies. Kids look at their test scores--SAT1s in particular and see that they are in the top 25% of the ivies' pool and think that they are a shoo in. That is only a very small part of the college admissions equation. Though it can count heavily, and kids with high scores are admitted in greater numbers than with lower scores, the grades, particularly rank is examined most closely. The top schools are really looking at the top 5 kids--not necessarily 5% but top 5 in number, if the kid is getting in as an academic admit. Kids who have other things the school really wants do have some leeway (URMs, legacies, celebrities, development, rare instrument proficiency, national recognition for a talent, athletic-can contribute to the college team).

That said, if you really have some of these schools in your system as an itch you want to soothe, by all means apply to them as well. Just make sure you have some good choices in the reach, match, safety modes along with the lottery tickets. And these top schools are truly lottery tickets for anyone. Any school that accepts less than a third of their applicants falls into this category by my reckoning, because strange things start to happen when the accept rate is so low at a school. Kids that your think are shoo-ins are rejected. I am working with kid who was deferred at BC and everyone is shocked. But if you look at BC's accept rate, it has gone way down and their numbers are so strong this year. They simply had too many candidates that fit her category and they want to look at what regular admissions has to offer before deciding what to do with her.

Down load a common application and fill it out to see where you stand out to someone looking at you on paper. Look at the class rank stats. Can you get truly dynamite references, will your essays be exciting, do you have some ECs that are unique? That will tell you where you stand with the very top schools. The schools your GC picked tend to focus on the test scores a bit more and are very good schools. There are over 2000 colleges in this country and you are picking over the top 5%.

By Musefinity (Musefinity) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 11:26 am: Edit

Umm...atleast your counselor friggin talks to you. I have to make appointment for literally a month or so before she'll see me. She put me in biology for the third time and wouldn't even see me to change my schedule until February 24th, at which point she wouldn't change it cause she said it was way too late. She was late by a month in writing my recommendation, addressed it to the wrong school, and then forgot to friggin sign it so there's a big blank spot where a signature should be. She wrote down my GPA wrong on my college application so I had to forge-correct it, and I gave her an application form in November for Truman that she still hasn't completed. She lied to me about there being 1) a school newspaper, 2) an AP Government class, and 3) the French class being full when I transferred, so I've only been able to take two language classes. ...And much much more!

I hate her.

By Bigred2005 (Bigred2005) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 01:20 pm: Edit

Dmxdawg,

Like you, I went to a competitive high school and had a similar or worse rank (my school didn't give exact rank either). Now I am a junior at Cornell. This is after being told that I should hope for schools like Emory, Tulane, Bowdoin, Colby, and many other LACs. This, especially since I wanted a large research university, was very frustrating.

The thing is: many competitive high schools want to increase the number of their students who are accepted to their first choice schools. To do this, they often encourage their students to aim lower than they should. Many college counselors also promote the notion that applying to more schools (especially reach schools) is bad b/c it will decrease the quality of all of your applications, but I couldn't disagree more. I applied to about 30 schools and probably wouldn't be at Cornell today if I had followed my counselor's advice. So definitely apply to some safety schools, but apply to some Ivies as well, especially Cornell and Penn. Cornell, due to its affiliation with New York State, doesn't get too many applicants from Texas, so give it a shot! Your scores are excellent and you should be proud.

By the way, what is your anticipated major/field?

Jim

By Bigred (Bigred) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 04:25 pm: Edit

Hey Dmxdawg,

Don't let people discourage you, especially people with no knowledge of the college admissions process. College counselors DO NOT have first-hand experience of what goes on behind closed doors. The thing that makes the schools you listed interesting is that they admit diverse groups of people. We don't know what admissions officers look for. You might be exactly the person that they are looking for. Let people on the admissions committee tell you whether or not you are qualified to attend that school. My advice: Apply to all those schools you listed and more if money permits. But don't apply to so many schools that you would be compromising the quality of your application.

By Dmxdawg (Dmxdawg) on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 12:34 am: Edit

Yeah, that makes sense. I just wanted to get a sense whether I have a chance or not.

By Chen (Chen) on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 04:39 pm: Edit

"my parents were really surprised because they haven't heard of them, and later they reprimanded me for not working hard enough."

Ah, that scares me. It's time to separate yourself from parents who live vicariously thru you, or value your education way too much.

I think your counselor was trying to offer you matches to narrow down from. It's crazy - at my school, they recommend you apply to 5 schools. 2 matches, 2 safeties, and 1 reach. That's just dumb. This board probably knows more about the admissions process than counselors. And he's right, those schools, VERY VERY VERY selective schools, are matches of different degrees for you. With your national recognition, SAT IIs, and GPA, I would definitely disregard your counselor, who not surprisingly didn't help me any either, and apply to whatever school you want. However, it's not all about prestige. I would love to go to WUSTL (which is VERY prestigious -- just not one around people who aren't familiar with great colleges), but it is very hard to separate yourself from the name. When you come aroound this time senior year, you'd be happy to just get into a good school much less an ivy league. Apply to some ivy leagues like someone else said, but don't expect to get in! Stop caring about the numbers and breathe some life into you. Some of thes chools you listed are just a step below ivy league anyway.

People made some great points in this thread

By Farrahday (Farrahday) on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 05:57 pm: Edit

As long as you have a safety or two, you should reach for the moon. You never know what could happen. But--your guidance counselor probably has a VERY good idea about what your realistic chances are. If you go to that fantastic of a high school, you will have a good guidance counselor. Apply wherever you want, but remember that your guidance counselor has been probably been doing this for awhile