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im prob just gonna end up at umass or uconn for my undergraduate freshmen yr. i was thinking of transferring to cornell or boston college during my sophomore yr after they see my good grades and college transcript. or should i just not even bother, and decide to go there for graduate school?

i dont even think its a big deal where u get ur undergraduate degree right? its all the same in the end for the most part?

By Adr531 (Adr531) on Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 09:11 pm: Edit

bump

By Esperanza (Esperanza) on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 12:19 am: Edit

so u mean that ur grad school matters more? if that's the case, well yeah. some people do say that. but wouldn't it look good on ur resume to say that both ur undergrad and grad schools were top schools in the nation?

By Mikepatterson (Mikepatterson) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 05:01 pm: Edit

Good luck. It's very hard for one - after attending a low caliber state University - to be accepted to a respectable near Ivy, or Ivy League University. You’ll also have a lower salary to look forward to. I won’t have that problem after graduating from MIT. What I write might feel too direct and callous, but I really am sorry for the undergraduates (at lesser Universities in Massachusetts who I meet in conferences) that had the potential to be great, but lost it because of their school.

MIKE PATTERSON

By Najy (Najy) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 05:06 pm: Edit

i think it matters as much as the high school you attend when applying for undergrad. It has some bearing, but what really matters is what you did there and how well you did academically, etc.



...or at least im praying for that to be the case

By Jordana (Jordana) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 05:13 pm: Edit

what!!!!!!!!!! What school you go to doesn't determine your salary or how secuessful you are. All the school does is give you a leg up, but it doesn't even matter in the long run. If you work hard you will be rewarded just as much as someone from and Ivy league or *MIT*. Bill Gates is one of the riches men in the world and I don't think he even graduated from college. Also most presidents didn't go to Ive schools for undergraduate degrees. I think your sending out a horrible message. No school can garentee you sucess or money. People should go to what ever school they want to, because it is where they want to be not because it is supossed to give to riches and glory. And you shouldn't feel sorry for anyone. In fact, we should be feeling sorry for you because it is very sad that you will go through life with this type of misguided assumption.

By Kathrynmulligan (Kathrynmulligan) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 05:43 pm: Edit

Jordana:

Secuessful = successful
riches men = richest men
Ive schools = Ivy schools
Garentee = guarantee

The typical whiny rebuttal from a future state school or non-Ivy student who can’t spell, but hopes to “make it big” while using expressions such as “a leg up” and “in the long run.”

By Cnn (Cnn) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 05:55 pm: Edit

BILL GATES attended HARVARD! but he didnt finish his degree there as he dropped to make his fortune
And yes its true that those going to good undergrad get nice starting salaries, of course that doesnt mean students from other schools wouldnt start with high salaries but Its LOT HARDER. Also students going to very good undergrad have less struggle to go into top grad programs than other students.

By Ohio_Mom (Ohio_Mom) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 06:18 pm: Edit

One of the dangers of going to a large, state college is that you will be lost in the herd of undergraduates, and not be able to make the connections and do the research that you will need to help you get into a good grad school. If you are very careful not to get lost in the herd - and write excellent papers - and are generally outstanding, it will help. However, the academic quality of the institution will be considered - both for employment and grad school.

In some business situations, this can work both ways. The boss, an alum of BigTime State U, may want to hire a fellow grad, rather than the arrogant Ivy they just interviewed. In another situation, some law firms may only consider graduates of the most prestigious law schools.

All other things being equal, graduates with degrees from 'name' institutions (at least in their field) will have it easier in the job and grad/professional school market. They may also be saddled with more debt - and graduate school may never come. For those of us (and for our children) that did not have the good sense to be born to weathly parents, this dilemma is a difficult one. And an excellent topic for civil discussion.

Mike Patterson raises valid issues both from an educational and social perspective. But one also needs to step back and define the meaning of success within this context. If it only the size of one's paycheck - look at the mighty that have fallen at Enron. Are they successful *human beings*?

By Ariesathena (Ariesathena) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 06:21 pm: Edit

To answer the question posed by the original poster... it does depend on what you want to do. In New England, UMass and UConn are considered to be fine schools. Many top students get merit aid for them (full tuition wavers) and special honours programmes.

If you want to do something like engineering, the school you come out of will have almost no effect on your starting salary. The average for, say, chemical engineering coming out of undergrad is $52k/year, but the standard deviation is remarkably small - it's almost unheard of for someone to make less than $45k or more than $60k. The business you go into (R&D, factory design, biotech) and the area of the country will more influence your salary than your alma mater.

If you are looking at graduate school, it depends on what you are specifically thinking about. As long as your undergrad is at least decent (like second tier), then you'll be fine for grad school admissions. It's only when you are attending truly third-tier schools or something that you'll have a tough time getting in. As many posts on this board address, it is sometimes easier to get in to a good grad programme (especially law and medicine) coming out of a mediocre school where you shine than being in the middle of your class at a top school - where you would have had to work much harder. The shining student at the second-tier school may have an easier time getting teacher recommendations, the good grades, research opportunities, etc to really stand out during grad school admissions.

By Henfour (Henfour) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 06:29 pm: Edit

I face a similar dilemma. I am a national merit finalist. I want to be an engineer and/or make a lot of money. Should I go to Ohio State and pay a net (after scholarships) of $4,000 per year, or go to a school like Rose-Hulman, Michigan, or Cornell where I would pay nearly $40,000 per year? Which school is better in the long run?

By Chitownsfnst3 (Chitownsfnst3) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 06:42 pm: Edit

at osu are you admitted into an honors program and is money a huge issue for you? i think those are important factors.

otherwise, i think it would behoove you more for your future if you attended u-mich or cornell. especially michigan b/c the michigan engineering program is top notch.

anyhow, i'd say go to michigan if you can: a VERY well rounded (academics, sports, etc) prestigious university ~ GO BLUE!

By Ohio_Mom (Ohio_Mom) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 06:43 pm: Edit

No aid anywhere else? How much debt would you, personally, have to take on for this? My niece graduated law school about 140,000 in the hole, but's it's managable because of her starting salary.

By Jordana (Jordana) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 06:52 pm: Edit

well Kathryn sorry for a few mispelled words shoot me!!!!!! I am not stupid and I do know how too spell. I wasn't tring to spark anything, all I was tring to say was that no school can define the rest of your life and the way Mike presented his post make everyone who didn't/doesn't attend an Ivy League or MIT look unworthy to stand in his presence.

By Kathrynmulligan (Kathrynmulligan) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 07:12 pm: Edit

Didn't = did not
Doesn't = does not

"the way Mike presented his post make everyone who didn't/doesn't attend an Ivy League look..."

instead

"the way Mike presented his post makes everyone who did't/won't attend an Ivy League look..."

"to spell" = verb, not "too spell"

example: too many people, too much homework, too lazy
example 2: he likes to write, to talk, to work...

By Soccerstar2291 (Soccerstar2291) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 07:23 pm: Edit

Before I went to college, I noticed that when I asked anyone where they went to college, they didn't want to tell me, changed the subject, or didn't notice me. Tier 2 or 3 graduates are too embaressed (and should be) to say where they went to college. Mike, we should talk sometime. I'm at MIT. I like your profile pic. *drools*

By Benjamin (Benjamin) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 07:38 pm: Edit

I've never heard of the contraction "did't" before...wow...you really showed Jordana who the smart one is!

The answer is simple...but you can't get it from pompous elitists (like three of the previous posters). They want to believe that since they have an Ivy League education, they are automatically better than everyone else. The fact is, it can boost your profile for getting into graduate school, but if you went to State U, and then on to Harvard law, people aren't going to hold your undergrad degree against you...

Oh, and feel free to correct anything in my post...I know that is what you live for (even though apparently you're not very good at it).

EDIT: I'm sorry, I just read soccerwhatever's post...I can't believe that you said that. You think people that go to Tier 2 schools should not be proud? That is so arrogant and ignorant. Any real intellectual (the people who really belong at MIT) would know how stupid that statement that you made is...it makes me sick to know that there are people out there who think so highly of themselves, and think nothing of belittling others...

By Northrams (Northrams) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 07:48 pm: Edit

I shall try to wrap my community college intellect around correct grammar and usage in this post so the intellectual elitists here do not get up in arms: After reading the posts on this thread by the two MIT students, I can surely assure you that I have eliminated said school from those I am considering for transfer. To denigrate and insult those with less presitigious degrees is abhorrent and shows a pathetic sense of haughty superiority. I hope that these two sad excuses for decent citizens do not truly represent the average Tier 1 or Ivy League student. Oh and please don't resort to attacking me or my chances for transfer to a school of Ivy-caliber based on my current school. Though my being at a community college obviously means that I am less intelligent than you (sarcasm included in case you missed it), prior to coming to my community college I was the top candidate accepted from New York to USMA. Funny thing is, MIT has produced the same number of US presidents as my very own community college- zero. Interesting.

By Gianscolere (Gianscolere) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 07:52 pm: Edit

graduate is more important than undergraduate college but both are important. also, when applying to graduate school, the quality of education you get at the undergraduate college is more important than that school's reputation.

By Hoping (Hoping) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 07:56 pm: Edit

cant we all just get along?

By Najy (Najy) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 07:56 pm: Edit

"The typical whiny rebuttal from a future state school or non-Ivy student who can’t spell, but hopes to “make it big” while using expressions such as “a leg up” and “in the long run.” "

Instead of bashing someone over miniscule grammatical errors, try adding something useful to the discussion. And I can't believe your comment about her being "state-school bound", as if any school that isn't in the Ivy League isn't worthy of regard in any form. Obviously your Ivy League education nullified any sense you had of what a college education is about.

You are obviously feeding off other people's weaknesses to sustain the smug, self-satisfied grin on your face- but you ended up making yourself look like a fool. Sorry!

Anyway, in response to the original post- perhaps people might blossom academically a little later. For example, I didnt try too hard in high school, but I feel confident I could make a 3.9-4.0 in college if I devoted myself to it. So it's like starting over, and grad schools don't care about high school. Hopefully, I can go to a top grad school to earn an MBA. Wish me luck!

By Mikepatterson (Mikepatterson) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 08:01 pm: Edit

Number of US presidents graduated from given college = University’s prestige/ quality of education.

Please prove this equation.

“Though my being at a community college obviously means that I am less intelligent than you…”
No, I missed the sarcasm, but you did use the Thesaurus very well – congrats, you get a sticker.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 08:10 pm: Edit

Henfour,
If you are interested in engineering, Ariesathena brings up some points for you to consider. Engineering majors have a standard curriculum that nearly all of them take. So it is not as important for them to go to one school over another except for cocktail party talk. Your earnings and job opportunities are not going to be much different whether you go to Michigan or Ohio. Unless there is a huge difference in prestige and you feel that is important to you personally, or there is another factor that you think would affect your personal happiness quotient at the school, cost can be a major indicator for your decision since you will be earning essentially the same regardless of which school you choose.

By Adxj220 (Adxj220) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 08:23 pm: Edit

Kathrynmulligan seems to be an utter idiot/fool/imbecile/pretentious/elitist/dimwitted punk. So does Mike Patterson, who seems to be too full of himself to make any remotely intelligent remarks--also a little obnoxious fool. Soccerstar appears to be equally pathetic, a snivelling moron desperately looking for dates on a college chatroom. Seriously, you guys are just embarrassing yourselves with your absurd snobbery--which won't get you anywhere after you leave your little "ivory towers". Your "education" clearly hasn't gotten you anywhere, thanks to your obviously snobbish and coddled upbringing (a tribute to your pasrents no doubt). Please refrain from making irrational and unfounded remarks which make you look dumb.

By Nj777 (Nj777) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 08:26 pm: Edit

"If you want to do something like engineering, the school you come out of will have almost no effect on your starting salary"

"cost can be a major indicator for your decision since you will be earning essentially the same regardless of which school you choose"


So would you recommend someone to goto their cheap public school rather than stanford or mit??-since both r gonna earn the same Especially if they r taking lots of loans to finance their college education. Either these points are lame or the college education system is totally screwed

By Benjamin (Benjamin) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 08:29 pm: Edit

LoL, it will get them somewhere, but I'm not going to say where...

Seriously, guys...are all of you really that arrogant? Nah, no one could be THAT egotistic...

By Gianscolere (Gianscolere) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 08:41 pm: Edit

in all honesty, i know a lot of MIT alumni who also graduated from first tier prep schools and they're not at all pretentious or pretentious-sounding like these MIT students are. for these people whom I know, their attending MIT was just second nature to them...however, the MIT students who post on this thread seem to be dwelling on their acceptance to this very day, thinking it's their best ticket to a successful life/being elite. your feeling overconfident about yourselves simply because of this acceptance means that you haven't properly put your accomplishments into perspective. you are implying that people should be judged by the college they attend, not their individual merits. yes, there is a correlation between the college attended and merit, but you need to realize that because of financial constraints and other factors, not all capable students can have or want access to an institution like MIT. also, the prep school alumni i know claimed that their prep schools were harder than MIT, so your claim of MIT's prestige is not necessarily justified when one compares MIT's academics with first tier prep schools. MIT professors/TA's tend to have the reputation for being harsher graders than Harvard's professors/TA's, but regardless, the alumni whom i personally know said that their prep schools indeed offered them a harder curricula than MIT did.

By Obiwan (Obiwan) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 08:51 pm: Edit

Warning to Kathryn Mulligan: Dial back the attitude NOW or your posting privileges will be suspended. Bashing posters about grammatical or spelling errors is not acceptable on this board. In fact, bashing posters about ANYTHING is not acceptable on this board. Do it again and you're gone.

Adxj220, you are warned as well.

Everyone else: inciting to riot is not viewed as an excuse for riot. Please dial back the attitude/language in any responses.

--Moderator Obiwan

By Adr531 (Adr531) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 09:20 pm: Edit

Ariesathena,

northeastern and florida institute of technology are both listed as third tier schools in the new us rankings magazine. these are schools i have been considering. can one really believe the reviews and rankings that a certain school gets?? i kinda want to go to florida institute right now even tho it has somewhat low ratings. my uncle went there and they lined him up with excellent jobs. there are smaller classes, and he was able to learn a lot more and do more hands on activities in his field of study.

all of this is really making it harder for me to choose where to go to college.

By Musictoad (Musictoad) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 09:25 pm: Edit

I just read the second posting here about poor schools and not being able to get into a great grad. Nonsense. I have a family member who attended Univ of Alabama and then Yale.

By Adr531 (Adr531) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 09:54 pm: Edit

Post deleted. --Admin

By Mikepatterson (Mikepatterson) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 10:04 pm: Edit

Write whatever you want about me, but please don’t call me a dick. Because you (and other posters) use offensive language without hesitation, the borderline between the Ivy and non-Ivy student/applicant/parent becomes clearer and clearer.

By Mzhang23 (Mzhang23) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 10:24 pm: Edit

Undergrad college is a unique experience and tends to be very different from grad school. You want to go to a good undergrad school so you can pursue, develop, and refine your interests. There is an obvious difference in going to a community college vs a top 50 for undergrad, but it's really all about being happy while getting an optimal education.

And while some people who attend prestigious schools are very arrogant, you'll find that a lot of them aren't. Mike Patterson is completely misguided - he thinks salary is directly linked with prestige. It's sad that people like that get into college, but the truth is that prestige only matters that much in the job industry - it gives you a nice push. A person with the skills to succeed will no doubt have shown them after several years in the workplace. It's true that HYPSM put a lot of their grads into money-making positions, but if you look at a lot of rich people, they are the same ones who attended state colleges and simply succeeded in life.

By Adxj220 (Adxj220) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 10:32 pm: Edit

Mikepatterson---Pleeeeeeeeease don't pretend to define or represent "Ivy student/applicant/parent borderline". Its just insulting to be associated with you.

Of course profanity correlates with intelligence! (sarcasm)--don't they teach that in linguistics 101 at all the ivies?!

By Mikepatterson (Mikepatterson) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 10:33 pm: Edit

Soccerstar:

I'm glad you enjoyed my profile picture. I'm sorry. Because I have so much work/studying to do here, I won't have the time to rape you like a state university student would.

I don't rape when I have free time, so no work doesn't = rape.

BTW: MIT does have hot guys. Check my profile if you don't believe me.

MIKE PATTERSON

By Adr531 (Adr531) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 10:42 pm: Edit

"Tier 2 or 3 graduates are too embaressed (and should be) to say where they went to college. Mike, we should talk sometime. I'm at MIT. I like your profile pic. *drools*"

i have no clue what exactly you're drooling at, because theres nothing there...

haha wow. you two are definitely a perfect match. gotta love arrogant people.

By Adxj220 (Adxj220) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 10:42 pm: Edit

IS THIS A JOKE!??!?!? What goes through your mind before you type something like that? I'm starting to think that this is some sort of a parody...And you look a little desperate, posing for your own webcam in your underwear, for strangers on the web...I won't go any further for fear of being banned.

By Adr531 (Adr531) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 10:43 pm: Edit

hahaha what a pic. you gotta give him credit for that one. atleast hes trying

By Oceanblue52 (Oceanblue52) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 11:45 pm: Edit

This is a ridiculous arguement. Some people define themselves and their success by what institution they go to. Its rather pathetic yes, but whats the point at getting offended? Its just a lot of time and energy wasted, if you ask me.

Adr531-DON'T turn down florida institute just because it has a low ranking. If it has what you want, and you feel its going to give you a good education, then by all means, go for it. US Rankings are ridiculous. The school I will be attending, St. John's College, does not participate in rankings. Their curriculm has remained the same for years, and yet they somehow keep getting moved from 1st to 3rd to 2nd tier. Its all relative, and quite meaningless.

My family has attended what would be called "third tier" schools, and have done quite fine for themselves. My mother attended CUNY and Hoftra, and has had a very successful multitude of careers. My brother attend U Colorado, Boulder, an average school, and is extremely successful as a self-employed computer tech. He's only about 30, and has the option of retiring in the next five years if he really wanted to. To say that going to a low rated under grad will lower your chances of success in the future is utter nonsense.

By Skulkarni1 (Skulkarni1) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 12:19 am: Edit

okay here's the thing:
the undergraduate college u go to does matter. jobs u apply too will look at it. however, what is more important, is how u do there. if u go to yale and get all D's, well, then the guy from boulder college, an average school, with a mix of A's and B's, will be picked over you. However, if the guy at boulder and the guy at yale both have all A's- well guess what, the job will go to the Yale graduate. that's basically how it works. so know that yes, the school u go to is very important, but how u do academically at that school matters more. also, don't think about only that - go to the college you want to go to, because regardless of ur future job or whatever, college is the best time of your life- i have yet to meet a college person who is unhappy, or atleast one who liked high school mroe than college (yes, i kno there are people who think this, but they are in the minority.) it is kind of hte same situation with going to a more competitive high school - a guy at the competive school with a 3.6 will be preferred over the guy at the average high school with a 3.6. however, if hte guy at a competivie school has a 2.5- well then, he's not gonna get in. the question is whether the guy at the competitive school with a 3.7 will be preferred over the guy at the regular school with a 3.9. that is a mystery that no one knows the answer too. but all in all- go where u wanna go. yeah, consider the rankings- but don't let that be the "deciding" factor in where u wanna go. is grad school more important? probably. however, to get into a good grad school, they look at the undergrad school- where the same kind of "system" applies. basically, try ur hardest wherever u go, but hte less selective school u go to, the better ur grades and rank should be if u wanna compete with people at more selective schools.

By Obiwan (Obiwan) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 01:48 am: Edit

Okay, this thread is closed.

Mikepatterson and adr531 banned for offensive posts.

--Moderator Obiwan