Do you guys cheat on ECs?





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Discus: What Are My Chances?: January 2004 Archive: Do you guys cheat on ECs?
By Sungwoojj15 (Sungwoojj15) on Wednesday, December 31, 2003 - 11:21 pm: Edit

like pretend worked in father's company or put longer hours than it is or pretend tutored someone????????

By Spiffybrownboy (Spiffybrownboy) on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 02:29 am: Edit

No... I thought about it since everyone was suggesting it including myself, but I just felt weird. I have this paranoia that somehow they'll find out. I also discovered that I have great EC's as it is, so why lie? EC's are actually fun things... they should be things you enjoy, not chores. So, you should have enough of them to not lie. That's my two cents :) .

By Amnestykid (Amnestykid) on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 04:06 am: Edit

No.

I'm not sure if I'm really paranoid about the matter, more along the lines of pretty certain. I mean, they're bound to have some means of verifying what you really did and didn't do, or else it would be way to easy to BS your way through the application process. These are the activities that should convey the type of person that you are, and I think it would definitely come back to haunt you if you put down fraudulent information. Basically you're misrepresenting yourself, and when it comes to college, I think you should be as honest as possible, or you may find yourself in a community that simply doesn't fit who you really are inside. Colleges could also be basing their decisions on what activities you're actually interested in as well...dunno, just a thought.

Now that I think about it though, does anyone have any idea how most universities would go about checking the EC's that you list? I have no doubt that these schools occasionally receive some seemingly bogus material, so how do suppose they approach it? They can't simply deny you because you may have actually worked THAT hard or put in THAT many hours.

I know with my I.B. course's C.A.S. component, that when we write up certain amounts of hours, that we need to include contact information for supervisors of our activities, which the C.A.S. instructor may choose to utilize or not.

Wait...just had another thought. Would universities ever contact school officials later on (without alerting the applicant) to verify certain information? It's always possible, especially if they acknowledge that it is simply verifying what you have presented in the application.

Anyway...if you present yourself truthfully, you won't have to worry about any of this! Remember...crime doesn't pay, cause it could always come back to bite you in the ass.

I had to estimate a few hours here and there, but nothing was outrageous, and they were all activities that I had actually done. I had also kept a journal for most of my activities over the years which helped in calculating my involvement in certain activities.

Just my thoughts on the matter .
AK.

By Bub (Bub) on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 05:48 am: Edit

Yes, but not enough to ever get caught. Practically speaking, it shouldn't matter because admissions officers like to think they're smart enough to figure out who's bluffing. If they're dumb enough to think that, they should be dumb enough to fool. Humans are stupid.

But from a moral standpoint, think about it this way: if you lie and don't get in, you'll feel like the ugliest piece of •••• in the world. But if you are honest and don't get in, you can call yourself a martyr. Now if you lie and get in, you can call yourself a bastard, but it'll be a hollow victory unless you don't have morals, in which you wouldn't have asked the question in the first place. If you are honest and you get in, you've defeated the odds- almost everyone tweaks things a little bit. Thus, you can righteously gloat your moral superiority away.

Now, with this in mind, you should assign numbers to each scenario, numbers representing the satisfaction points. For instance, case 1 gets -44 points, case 2 gets -33 points (if you enjoy martyrdom, this could even be a positive value), case 3 gets 10 points (but if it's your top choice college, the number should be significantly higher), and case 4 gets 89 points. Then you set up a 2 by 2 matrix and you use game theory to figure out which solution maximizes your profits.
If in the case that they balance, you're a retard for following my advice.
In my case, I did it because I'll cry if I get rejected. Did you know that rejection stimulates the same part of the brain as physical pain?

I don't know why I bother posting.

By Freudboy (Freudboy) on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 06:19 am: Edit

Lying is wrong. But so is affirmative action. I don't know where i'm going with this

By Amnestykid (Amnestykid) on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 06:22 am: Edit

I'm confused hehe.

By Amnestykid (Amnestykid) on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 06:35 am: Edit

Do you really think AdCom's would go so far as to say they KNOW when a particular applicant is bluffing? There is only so much of a picture that you can build through an application.

By Foreignboy (Foreignboy) on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 08:06 am: Edit

I don't think they can really tell, unless you make it really obvious.
Then again, it's the ethics of the thing..

By Fallentear04 (Fallentear04) on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 12:38 pm: Edit

Ugh, why would you lie about extra-curriculars?

I wouldn't be able to spend four years at a college knowing that I really might not have been what the college was looking for and might not have been "good enough" to get accepted.

By Collegebnd (Collegebnd) on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 01:44 pm: Edit

I didn't lie on my extracurriculars. I'm a very paranoid person.

With that said, college admissions committees aren't these wonderful, moral, shining creatures some people paint them out to be. In selecting someone, a college only really wants to make itself look better, rank better, have more prestige, etc. Colleges will often choose a less qualified applicant who seems less honest over someone more qualified, who desperately wants to go, and who is clearly honest in their pursuit of extracurriculars (they chose extracurriculars because they enjoyed them, not to rack up leadership, etc.) College admission isn't all that honest of a practice. The fact that all of this fluff (for example, "we have 100 published poets, 5 olympic medalists, blah blah blah") has become so important in admissions has affected the way people approach applying to college. EVERYONE worries they don't have enough hours, leadership, work experience, awards... It's really awful, and I can only blame it on the unfair practices of adcoms -Geographic advantages, affirmative action, legacy/donor advantages, athlete recruitment, the list goes on and on... It just seems like there are hardly any spots for honest people who do well and really love a couple of things yet don't have a lot of major awards, hours and hours of everything, straight As, and are URMs.

If that isn't bad enough, colleges have been KNOWN to fudge facts to boost their USNews ranking. For example, creating a few extremely small classes, and then making up for it by having a certain percentage of classes extremely large boosts ranking. Other colleges have been caught outright LYING about the number of people in the top ten % of their highschool classes, and another was caught lying about its endowment, all in an effort to have a higher ranking. Sounds oddly familiar, if you ask me...

I think there are ways to make the extracurriculars you have look more appealing to colleges by emphasizing your activity in a few, writing essays about your passions, etc. If you feel you have to lie, add a few hours where you think you don't have enough. But don't make it look ridiculous. And don't add new activities out of the blue. I HAVE heard of adcoms calling guidance counselors to do check ups, mostly when the activity list is really suspicious looking for whatever reason. I doubt that they make a habitual practice of this, as it would be extremely time consuming and a real hassle.

By Bluealien01 (Bluealien01) on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 01:53 pm: Edit

No. I think that schools should have a place on the transcript that lists EC's/sports that a student was involved in, and a list of honors and awards they received in high school. Obviously the stuff they did outside of school(like church youth group, community service, 4-H, etc) wouldn't show up but, I guess this would at least let colleges know that the EC's and stuff that the student claims did in high school are legit. Then the student could get recommendations from the outside of school organizations they were involved in to make sure they are legit too. I dunno.

By Warriorlax22 (Warriorlax22) on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 02:37 pm: Edit

well, i don't think any school would check. i mean, you have to imagine it: 15,000-x # of applicants. how is anyone going to select ONE person out of the bunch? now if you put something outrageous like, cured cancer or something, i'm pretty sure they have some way of checking it out. it's also very possible that they get a list of names from scholarship programs and such of a certain year, like NYTimes, Coca-Cola, CollegeBoard, All-American associations or whatever. it's just easier to check out something noticeable.

By Foreignboy (Foreignboy) on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 02:37 pm: Edit

My school doesn't list ECs at all and most of my ECs are outside school.

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 02:39 pm: Edit

Collegegebnd,
I have seen no evidence that any college is interested in choosing people who lack ethics and integrity over people who have those things.

When I taught at a third tier college, the faculty didn't have much patience with students who lacked ethics. When I have talked with adcoms from first tier colleges, they have expressed great interest in selecting students with integrity. Indeed, at places like Harvard, lies on applications can cause students' admissions and even their college diplomas to be rescinded.

By Beenthereil (Beenthereil) on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 02:46 pm: Edit

False statements made on an application which results in your being admitted to a school is the basis for a withdrawal of the acceptance.

You are taking a "chance".

Why would you do it to lose something that you've wanted (an admission to your school of choice) for some time?

By Welshie (Welshie) on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 02:49 pm: Edit

The only "lying" I did on mine was the fact that I put up the usual schedule for my tutoring that sometimes changes, aka, sometimes I don't tutor one girl that week or sometimes I tutor for a bit longer, etc. but it is the tentative schedule. The same things works for hockey. Most of the time my games are in LA and so it's 4 hours of travel but sometimes they are in town so I have no travel time. But there are times when they are in San Diego/La Jolla and there is no 10 hours of travel time (round trip). If it's lying to put down the tentative/most usual schedule, then I'm guilty.

-Jesse

By Badreception (Badreception) on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 02:59 pm: Edit

Its all about exaggeration not bs'ing

By Xjay2max (Xjay2max) on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 03:18 pm: Edit

i agree with badreception.

everyone exaggerates to make their ECs sound better than they really are.

personally, what i do for ECs is really what i do. i wont lie. it's just a moral thing.

By Warriorlax22 (Warriorlax22) on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 04:38 pm: Edit

or is it bs'ing, and not exaggeration? define bs'ing as the truth but make it seem more impressive. it's just made by rewording, not increasing numbers.

By Zephyrmaster (Zephyrmaster) on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 04:45 pm: Edit

No. Just seems so immoral and pointless. I counted out the weeks etc..., I don't want to be a liar when I don't have to be.

By Sungwoojj15 (Sungwoojj15) on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 05:03 pm: Edit

i'm worried that i don't have enough ecs i'm only sophomore but i'm worried

mathclub
science olympiad
multicultural club - committee chair
grand friends
interact club
tennis 02-03
track 02

i don't have any awards...TT but i'm going to work in the library, community service, make a new club, try to become officer in clubs, join NHS, join more sports you guys think this is enough?

By Funinthesun (Funinthesun) on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 10:12 pm: Edit

damn Sungwoojj15 take it easy you are only a sophomore. high school is not all about academics and monster ECs. seriously take some time to just enjoy yourself and dont waste your youth trying to fit in an insane schedule. theres a lot more to life than college

By Steffie1212002 (Steffie1212002) on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 01:08 am: Edit

Any EC or award that you would actually give you an advantage in admissions are things you can't lie about. I can't say I went to the Olympics or won the Intel thing. The things people *do* lie about (like Key Club or some junk like that) have pretty much no effect on admission, Worst of all, if you ARE admitted, you'll feel like crap because you lied. Tis not worth it.

By Wrinklefiber (Wrinklefiber) on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 01:13 am: Edit

I don't cheat on anything. Whatsoever. And, since nearly everyone else does at my school in my program, I have bad grades.

I'm starting to think conscience is a birth defect.

But, seriously, don't fake your extracurriculars. It's not worth it, and you can't really add enough to make a big difference in the adcoms' minds (unless you fake leadership or, if you are in leadership somewhere, give yourself lots of awards).

By Peacemakeriv (Peacemakeriv) on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 01:47 am: Edit

stop calling it Intel, it's Intel ISEF or just ISEF, not Intel, Intel is a company, and their CEO is uggly (i saw him there), anyhow, called it ISEF, not Intel

By Uncchlocalmayor (Uncchlocalmayor) on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 02:07 am: Edit

liars go to hell.

By Amnestykid (Amnestykid) on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 02:28 am: Edit

similar tangent...
Any of you guys do the full IB Diploma? With the CAS component? Ever come across any similar situations with students "window-dressing" their CAS hours?

I only bring it up because this thread reminds me of an incident where a couple students had their Diploma jeopardized for inflating the number of hours certain activities were credited with and also putting down a few fraudulent ones as well.


--bluealien,

I know what you mean about how schools should include a list of the scholastic achievements the students have received. My school addressed the issue a couple years ago, so on the back of my transcripts there are areas for the school to include a list of scholastic achievements and attach any supporting info if necessary.

--collegebnd,

"Colleges will often choose a less qualified applicant who seems less honest over someone more qualified, who desperately wants to go, and who is clearly honest in their pursuit of extracurriculars (they chose extracurriculars because they enjoyed them, not to rack up leadership, etc.) College admission isn't all that honest of a practice."

That statement seems a little odd, considering the college would then be obviously admitting someone of less integrity, and turning down someone with more qualifications and moral discernment in the process. Where's the logic in that ?

--badreception,

"Its all about exaggeration not bs'ing "

aren't they essentially the same when it comes to being honest in what you put down on your application? by exaggerating you are BS'ing your way through it...because then you're giving yourself credit for something you didn't do, which is BS at its best. Estimating is expected (most applications even state "to the best of your knowledge"), but flat-out lying is wrong...you're only kidding yourself really.

--xjay2max,

"i agree with badreception.

everyone exaggerates to make their ECs sound better than they really are.

personally, what i do for ECs is really what i do. i wont lie. it's just a moral thing."

your statement is really general and sweeping in the way you've worded it. are you so sure that EVERYONE exaggerates on their EC's? they only give you so much space...so you are somewhat limited in what you put down. furthermore, if what you do is really what you do, assuming that you like what you do, where is the need to exaggerate? you state that it's a moral thing for you, yet you subsequently state that everyone does it, so is exaggerating on your app., therefore, a positive moral to have? i don't think so, but then again, the whole concept of ethics can be pretty person-specific.

--beenthereil,

"False statements made on an application which results in your being admitted to a school is the basis for a withdrawal of the acceptance.

You are taking a "chance".

Why would you do it to lose something that you've wanted (an admission to your school of choice) for some time?"

good one .

By Iluvlucy (Iluvlucy) on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 12:48 pm: Edit

I had NO clue how to list my EC's. The fact is my life just doesn't fit into those neat little grids. One week I'd spend like 30 hours on an activity, and then I wouldn't have to work on it again for two more weeks, then I'd spend four hours on it the next week. I was told to just average them out but it still feels sort of odd. And how do you estimate how much time you spent for Key Club? It's so random.

By Iluvlucy (Iluvlucy) on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 12:50 pm: Edit

You know what makes me mad? I actually did work for my dad's company. Only so many people lie about that, I know colleges won't believe me. I'm not even putting it down because it'll make automatically make me look dishonest.

By Peacemakeriv (Peacemakeriv) on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 12:51 pm: Edit

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
all u ppl have no solid ECs, dont even put them on, it's like saying "o, i do nothing, so i gotta put down every hour i spend on ECs"...
and if u lie about the big ones, they will find out, it's very easy to find out who's on the varsity basketball team as opposed to an irregular club like "key club" -- what is that anyhow, they dont have that here in Canada

By Winnerpl (Winnerpl) on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 07:48 pm: Edit

I don't have great ECs, but no I didn't lie and put down anything I didn't do. But I highly doubt they check the schools about every little thing teh student did. I mean what if there mistakes on the school records.

By Wrinklefiber (Wrinklefiber) on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 07:55 pm: Edit

Peacemakeriv:

Key CLub is probably one of the most prevalent high school clubs in the US. It's a community service organization (read, at least at my school: looks good on college applciation). It's the youth branch of the Kiwanis, which are a group I'm less familiar with, but they also do the whole service thing. It's an asset down here.

I'm not a member of my school's chapter, so I'm not biased.

By Subparasian (Subparasian) on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 08:07 pm: Edit

Some people will glorify a stupid EC... is that "cheating"? If it is, everyone has done it... don't try and deny it, everyone has placed themselves better than they are on paper, especially when they're applying to something competitive... like a job or admissions. Hell, some people even round their hours off and put little "+" at the end...

I think adcoms know when a person lies and the consequences/risks outweight the benefits. If you do or have done it, just pray you don't get caught...

Good luck

By Whzup44412 (Whzup44412) on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 08:17 pm: Edit

I think a lot of students don't lie about the specific activities that they participate in, rather the hours they participate. e.i. some students claim to work 10 hours/week in a specific club. It could be true, or it could be that you worked one week of the whole year for 10 hours and the rest for 1-4 hours. In general, activities aren't weighed a whole lot in the admissions process. I'd be honest in they things you do and the involvement you have.

By Badreception (Badreception) on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 02:38 am: Edit

i meant as not making up stuff u didn't do...like say u tutored someone but actually u never did. I admit i exaggerated but not that much...2 hrs of work= 4 hours..some call it "approximations". Like in weeks for a EC..how accurate can one person be.

All in all...i wouldn't bs totally..too much on my conscious but i wouldn't hesistate to exaggerate. One person cannot be succesful by being totaly honest...and one cannot be totally honest. I admit i might not be honest in my apps..but oh well.

By Badreception (Badreception) on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 02:44 am: Edit

at my school last year..kids were paying club presidents to put them on rosters...because i know by being club president..if colleges call, they will be probably talking to the president or sponser and all they will do is check a roster. We don't have the time to go back and check last years roster and such.

But hell no i would never get paid to put some on a roster. My club(best buddies, people who don't know about it, its a club that promotes friendships with students with disabilities and students without)...has to much a impact and like this is the only EC i actually care about. But ive been asked and people willing to pay me (i mean like over $50)..

By Freudboy (Freudboy) on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 07:49 am: Edit

exaggeration = lying

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 09:31 am: Edit

I am a parent and am going to chime in cause I truly find some of these posts incredulous. It is pretty pathetic if you have to lie about what you did in high school. And that includes exaggerating cause that is also dishonest. Some are asking how colleges would even know if they were lying. In my opinion, it might be easy to tell in some cases. The activity list really should not be the only place any significant activities come up. Often some come up in the essays. Also, on a college visit, a contact might be made with someone in that EC cause the student wants to continue that EC at the college. I know even in my own kid's case, that the teacher recs and guidance report/narrative referred to some of her activities. There also were supplemental recs from a coach and from a person she interned with in her intended major. Those things show they are not made up. If you are going into a certain field, then you might show stuff you did along the way to explore that field. Also, in many activities there are awards or recognition which I cannot imagine someone fabricating. Some of you are making up what are somewhat minor ECs, a club here or there with some title, a little tutoring and what not. While these are ok activities, they often are looking for substantial long term committments and I cannot see how you can make up a sport, a performing arts thing, or something long term like that. I really do not think it is going to impress to say for two years you were in some sort of club or tutored somebody which may be things they cannot check up on. The post about kids paying to be on some roster is quite sick in my view. But again, those could only happen in some student run club sort of thing which is often a more minor EC in the first place. You cannot fudge your name onto a varsity roster or school orchestra or dance team or some such. If you have an internship or something, those things come up in the interview a LOT. I interview prospective candidates for admission and a big part is discussing these activities and I am sure you would not have a lot to discuss in a genuine way if it were all made up. I know my own kid's interviews have discussed her activities quite a bit and she has brought along a resume as well. In all aspects of the application process, these activities are substantiated, not just the activity list. Personally, in any case, if I were reading an app, some of these little clubs you are adding on for a year or four hours per week would not really add much in my view and it would be clear you were not that actively involved outside the classroom throughout your youth. In my own kid's case, she did not need to make up any activities or hours cause the things she is engaged in began when she was very young and she has down how many years she had done these things which range from 9-13 years. Nobody can make that up. It is quite clear. Some of the activities are huge time committments. Any adcom sees things like a performing arts group or sport team or the like as pretty significant committments. And any decent candidate is going to have some honors/awards in these activities, not just some "president" name that does not imply any sort of accomplishment. You can lead without being named some nice title. Hopefully your entire app package, including the parts the school sends, supports your activity list. If your made up activity is so significant, I would imagine it should be referred to elsewhere in your package. Colleges are looking for kids who will continue their EC passions on campus. I know my D intends to continue all of hers. She did not do them to look good for college. These activities have been passions from quite young and she would not want to give them up in college. So, even in the "Why X College" essays, these activities also came up and she researched the opportunities at that college to continue those EC pursuits. I am not sure if I read some made up activity list where none of those things were ever referred to anywhere else in the app or in the teacher sent materials or in the interview that it would hold much water for me. Also, if schools find out you have sent anything that is dishonest (and they can find out), your admission would likely be revoked.

Did your parents read your applications? What did they think of your lying on them? I am curious. I cannot imagine a parent supporting a lack of integrity.
Susan

By Slayer (Slayer) on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 09:56 am: Edit

There is nothing I detest more than cheating. Particularly now. And if you lie about your extra-curriculars, then you're cheating big time...

Recently I was truly disheartened when my entire Physics (Honors) class save me and one other girl cheated on the tests the entire third six weeks. They would go in before, rummage through the teachers's things, and blatantly steal the answer key, type the multiple choice answers in their calculators, and receive perfect scores on the tests. These weren't easy tests either--before the cheating started, the average class grade would be a low C or a D, and the highest would usually be a high B or low A.

For whatever reason I didn't want to rat out my "friends" so I let it slide and just pretended not to see. I got madder though as I would study and study for these tests, get a 92 or some grade that used to would've been curved to a 100, and they would all get 100's and be like "YeaH!"

It wasn't that these kids were like the scum of the scum. Most of them are viewed as pretty good kids, taking challenging courses and involved in lots of extra-curriculars.. A good half of them want to go to UNC-Chapel Hill, and I bet a lot of them get in. I'd say there's 5 or so who say they want to be doctors (a common theme at my high school). Even some people I thought were truly honest and good kids were cheating.

The part that cracked me up was the kids who wanted to uphold their good reputations, mostly girls, who would say they were cheating "ethically". "I just put the key in my calculator, do the test myself, and CHECK my answers with the key". Ohhh, right, so you're gonna look at the key and say wow this key must be incorrect! riiiight, a cheater is a cheater, have the guts to admit it.

So in the end, I got screwed. I made my first B and I went in and talked to the teacher. He's young, and he really didn't care. Our class did well on the "End of course exam" so he was happy. "You live you learn" he told me. "It's just a grade, no big deal".

But if you live in an area with a school as competitive as mine, you know it is a big deal. Not the end of the world, but just an injustice to me that should've never happened.

The way I figure, if people are going to cheat or lie on things, it sucks for everyone. The people around them get screwed out of things they deserve. It makes the honest people have to work ten times harder just to stay afloat.

But take some comfort in knowing it *will* catch up to them. If you lack the morality and sense of values to have the integrity to do your own work honestly and be proud of it, you've got a lot bigger problem than listing your high school extra curriculars or taking a test. "Don't compromise yourself, you're all you've got."

So don't lie on your extra-curriculars. Be PROUD of the things you did, but don't make up any more. If you want to be accepted to college as a different person than you really are, then how are you gonna feel about yourself when you graduate? Did I really deserve to get in here? Or was it my fake leadership position in the Chess club..

I don't know... Don't cheat. Be yourself. Be proud. Have integrity.

By Fallentear04 (Fallentear04) on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 10:35 am: Edit

The teacher didn't care that they were all cheating? I would have taken it higher. That's disgusting.

By Amnestykid (Amnestykid) on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 11:24 am: Edit

I also would have taken it to a higher level, especially considering how it reflects on you...the person who did study hard...the person put in the effort...the person who DIDN'T CHEAT! Just revising some of the posts on this thread really pisses me off. Really reminds me of times when I was in similar situtions...doing things honestly, to have someone walk up and them away simply because they had a difference in moral discernment. Furthermore, it really pains me to read posts where other people have experienced similar situations and didn't take a stance.

For anyone who would go so far as to completely alter their image or cheat, especially when others are put at a disadvantage, I simply feel sorry for you.

Believe it or not, and it's already been stated a few times in this thread already, these things do catch up with you sooner or later.

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 12:15 pm: Edit

Slayer,
The first mistake that was made by you was not telling the teacher about the cheating when it first occurred. Maybe he didn't do anything about it because he thought you were talking only because of sour grapes.
After the teacher did nothing, you also could have gone above the teacher's head.
Standing back and watching people do wrong is just about as bad as doing wrong yourself. By saying nothing for so long, you let everything think that what they were doing was fine. This is why colleges and other places that have honor codes require students to agree to not only not cheat, but to also report people who are breaking the honor code.

By Iluvlucy (Iluvlucy) on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 12:50 pm: Edit

Peascemakeriv:
Key Club is as huge a committment as any sports team, if not more. Sure there are people who only attend the meetings and don't do anything else, just like there are benchwarmers on sports teams, but it can involve a great deal of committment if you want it to. Any activity is what you make it; its not like some clubs are inherently useless. The fact that it isn't in Canada has nothing to do with it, LOL.

By Fallentear04 (Fallentear04) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 12:53 pm: Edit

President of my chapter's Key Club :-D

By Rubster (Rubster) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 06:29 pm: Edit

M-A-N-N-E-R-S: GET SOME OR YOU'RE GONE

MODERATOR

By Rubster (Rubster) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 06:30 pm: Edit

last chance for you to remain a part of this community...perma-banning is next

MODERATOR

By Moonsurfer21 (Moonsurfer21) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 06:57 pm: Edit

you know i dont have that many ec's because at the beginning of high school i was searching for my interests (i quit town soccer in 10th grade, held long term babysitting jobs, etc.) but now i found karate and i absolutely love it!! people say..."your ec's are going to look so bad to colleges becaus they dont show long term committment..etc. etc." but honestly i do what i enjoy..i love working w/ kids and that shows up all throughout high school, babysat for single mother about 3x per week 9th/10th grade, then when i moved across country i started volunteering at the children's museum. also i love helping others which is a pattern in my app. although i just started karate this year, and my app isnt as impressive as some ppl's i'm just going to stick with what i enjoy now that i've found it and see what colleges like me for who i am. (karate + community work and a writer) be happy w/ who you are and what you do..and enjoy life a little on the way..and if you dont think you've found soemthing you enjoy yet, try to find it by the time you leave high school and explain to the college how you want to pursue it throughout later life. although this probably wont look to good to the ivies, i plan on going to a less competitive school and w/ high grades, test scores etc. i dont think i'm going to spend the rest of my hs time worrying!!

By Rubster (Rubster) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 08:53 pm: Edit

what i can't express my opinion about cheating?

By Rubster (Rubster) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 08:54 pm: Edit

and canada?

By Rubster (Rubster) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 08:55 pm: Edit

you have people telling other people it's ok to cheat on college applications, and you have a problem with me?

By Rubster (Rubster) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 08:56 pm: Edit

if they don't find out then cheat!!!!! wheee!

happy?

By Rubster (Rubster) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 09:04 pm: Edit

but then again, you can ...not utilize your brain and just ban me because you feel like it.

By Thenamek (Thenamek) on Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 03:12 pm: Edit

"Lying is wrong. But so is affirmative action. I don't know where i'm going with this"

(it's up quite a bit)

Yeah. OK. So you're saying that somebody who grew up in the Boston ghetto doesn't have a disadvantage compared to someone who grew up in Newton or went to Andover or Lincoln-Sudbury?

I'm not saying AA is perfect, but it's better than letting the more unfortunate fall through our society's cracks. (It should be based on socioeconomic status, not skin color - but then again, the two things are pretty damn close.)

The moral issue of what you're saying (regarding something called "honesty," maybe you've heard of it) is obvious, so I won't talk about it.

By Plopfkop (Plopfkop) on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 02:28 am: Edit

Look at society. Who prospers? Who succeeds? I think its a pretty hard sell to say that cheaters don't prosper.

Unless you think that cheaters go to hell (Worldly success at the cost of eternal damnation is certainly not worth it), then the only reason not to cheat is if you think the odds of being caught and the cost of getting caught are greater than the benefit of succeeding.

By Rubster (Rubster) on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 06:47 am: Edit

if getting into a college is more important to you than having decent integrity, i pity you.

By Fallentear04 (Fallentear04) on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 09:22 am: Edit

"Look at society. Who prospers? Who succeeds? I think its a pretty hard sell to say that cheaters don't prosper."

Tell that to the CEOs of Enron.

By Sailor_420 (Sailor_420) on Saturday, January 17, 2004 - 12:57 pm: Edit

Just a few things:

1) I hope they don't throw my applications out of the window, because most of my EC's/sports will look exaggerated. There isn't a single lie in my app, but they look too far-fetched nevertheless. What do you all think?

2) Lying is wrong. So many have said this, but I'm saying it again. Whether it's exaggeration or BS-ing, it's wrong. Besides, if you'rereally passionate about your ECs, you wouldn't need to touch up your Resume would you?

3) I don't understand why you guys are allowed to use calculators. We in India never are.

By Vsage3 (Vsage3) on Saturday, January 17, 2004 - 10:50 pm: Edit

Would you like to integrate sin^2(x) from sqrt(2) to pi without a calculator and give a decimal answer? It all depends on what type of questions there are. I was not allowed to use a calculator at all in high school math except on the calc BC AP test. Sailor_420: By allowing the use of calculators the stress is put on the concept/method of getting the answer rather than computing a correct answer (in theory). Multiple choice is a waste of time though in science classes.

By Binarystar (Binarystar) on Saturday, January 17, 2004 - 11:15 pm: Edit

I wouldn't lie, but I would give myself the benefit of the doubt. If I'm not sure whether or not I volunteered 10 hours or 11, I'd just put 11 ;).

By Abz1986 (Abz1986) on Saturday, January 17, 2004 - 11:28 pm: Edit

I don't think colleges will look into these things too much, unless its obviously exaggerated.

See theres this thing called "honor code" which I think most colleges expect the people who apply to follow...

By Baseballtwin86 (Baseballtwin86) on Saturday, January 17, 2004 - 11:41 pm: Edit

Slayer, you high school souns a lot like mine, except that same situation happened in European History rather than fizix ;) . I actually discussed it on my interview, which may have not been the wisest choice, but she brought up whether I liked my high school ;) . Most of those kids will probably be heading to College Park. Basically a girl stole the answer sheet to one of the insanely hard quizzes and 90% of the class got an 100. This is when a normal quiz would have one high grade of an B. All the kids basically got a slap on the wrist, so whatever. At least I'm heading to Duke :D

By Shahab (Shahab) on Sunday, January 18, 2004 - 11:12 am: Edit

Lying and exaggerating is inevitable. Want to know the formula? Here it is- Start with desperate students, add ridiculuously high SAT/GPA expectations, toss in some Nobel Prize level extracurriculars, and on top of that relish it with the expectation of a "unique personality". What do you have? A recipe for lying and cheating.

I despise lying and cheating. I would rather end up graduating from state school than to lie through the admissions process. But I'm not naive. I know why it happens, and it is too easy to put the full blame on students alone. As it stands, such is the price for subjective admissions.

By Soccerrulz888 (Soccerrulz888) on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 06:17 pm: Edit

i believe in cheating, so what? its not that big of a deal. i bet everyone of you are asians i have noticed that asians are all obsessed with school and not cheating and that crap. if you get away with cheating then more power to you!


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