Ivy League Diploma





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Discus: What Are My Chances?: January 2004 Archive: Ivy League Diploma
By Staticsoliloquy (Staticsoliloquy) on Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 12:24 am: Edit

Hi everyone! I know everyone on this board is in that stressing time when they're waiting for their admission letter from college. It can be very nerve-racking and anticipating. But if you don't get into your 1st choice, the world is not over. You are a great person and you don't need a prestigious college to turn you successful.

Everyone should read this book by Jay Mathew's Harvard Schmarvard. prudent advices about the whole college application process. It changed my perspective on college. I don't need to go to Princeton or Stanford to be successful in life. I don't need them. The best college isn't the one that is most selective or the most prestigious one: "Deep in the hearts of many applicants and their parents is the nagging feeling that the best schools are the famous ones most likely to reject them."

An ivy league diploma doesn't guarantee success or a big salary. Sure, there is prestige that goes along with having a marquee name on a diploma, but hard work and heart will get you a lot further. It's the hard work, persistence, and ambition that create and sustain success. There are plenty of good educational opportunities everywhere, and you don't have to go to an institution with a stellar academic reputation to reach your goals. One only needs to hav the motivation, dedication, and ambition to succeed. The most important reason graduates of HYPSM had bigger salaries later in life was not because they had so many talented classmates at their selevtive alma maters but because of personal characteristicis they brought with them to HYPSM.

great advices, very good book, i highly recommend it to all of you

By Wutdeh (Wutdeh) on Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 02:18 am: Edit

amen

By Staticsoliloquy (Staticsoliloquy) on Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 02:43 am: Edit

So i don't see the point of spending 160K a year for the almost exact same undergraduate education you can get anywhere else

people, all of you are great. all of you have what it takes to be great (that's why you're on here). You don't need to go to a great college to be great. (sorry for using one word, im trying to emphasize the point, not the fact that i can't use the thesaurus)

By Anthony (Anthony) on Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 10:55 am: Edit

No offense intended, but have you taken any college courses at different institutions? I've taken classes at Cornell, Harvard, CUNY Queens, Penn State, and BYU and without a doubt I can say that my Cornell and Harvard classes were superior in pretty much every tangible way. To say that you will get the "exact same undergraduate education" anywhere is ludicrous.

By Britt123 (Britt123) on Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 12:24 pm: Edit

I partially agree with the first poster and I also agree with Anthony. I want to go to an ivy league school because it is my dream. Im sorry but I cant get the same education at a Community College or State School that I can at Duke or Brown. There is just NO comparison. Sure, a person can still be very successful, even without a college diploma or a diploma from another school, but some of us really want to go to a prestigious school. I've worked VERY hard in high school with the hopes of attending a wonderful institution, and therefore, that is my intent. If i wanted to go to University of Texas I could have taken all level classes and been automatically admitted (Texas accepts top 10 percent) How does everyone else feel?

By Melbel219 (Melbel219) on Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 12:34 pm: Edit

it all depends on how you define success.

:D

the BEST college is the one where you will learn and grow into a better human being.. no matter what your definition of "better" is. No, you won't get the EXACT same education.. an ivy league education won't necessarily be BETTER (if we're going to sink so low to quantify and categorize education..) than one from a community college, but.. it will, no doubt, be different. What matters is that you work hard and be passionate about everything that you do.

By Geodude666 (Geodude666) on Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 03:27 pm: Edit

hey staticsoliloquy, how much is the author paying you to adverstise his book? Or are u the author? lol

By Staticsoliloquy (Staticsoliloquy) on Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 09:44 pm: Edit

The oft-asked question: will my future be toast if i don't go to an ivy league school? A good friend of mine is a land-grant woman with an Ivy League husband. FOr years, we have observed the truth of your story anmong our mutual friend: An ivy League education gives you valuable contacts and an impressive resume, but after that you're on your own. You can't wear your school alma mater on your forehead. (Okay some people do, but I don't invite them to dinner.) Among our acquaintances there are as many state school types as Uvt Leaguers who are sophisticated, happy high achievers. Both groups seem to have their share of small-bore, neurotic lightweights as well. -Linda Knauss

Linda,as well as I, are saying that you don't need an ivy league education to be successful. My friend's dad graduated from California State Hayward, and now he makes 200K a year. SOme people don't even NEED a college diploma, look at Bill Gate, the epitome of what i am trying to get at.

You don't need an ivy league education to go far in life, you already have what it takes. The education might be a bit better, but after 5 years, are you really going to remember minuit details from your organic chemistry class or that discussion in feminist studies? Not really.

Character traits, such as persistence, optimism, and honesty, established long before anyone takes the SAT, seemsed to me more crucial to success than an Ivy League degree. After all, how much of an advantage has an Ivy diploma ben?

Here are the alma maters of the senior U.S. senators of 25 states: Wyoming, Wisconsin, Salem, Washington State, Washington & Le, St. Michael's, Brigham Young U, Georgia, Memphis State, South Dakota State, Clemson, West Point, Penn, Stanford, Oaklahoma State, Miami of Ohio, Stanford, Wingate, Harvard, New Mexico, Rutgers, Lafayette, Utah State, Nebraska, and Stanford.

or how about the colleges of the chief executive officers of the top ten Fortune 500 companies, starting at the top in 2001: Duke, Puttsburg (Kansas) State, Wisconsin, Royal Melbourne Instutite of Tech, UMASS, Dartmouth, Cornell, Miami of Ohio, Institute of Chartered Accountants in Australia, and UC Berkeley.

Most of these alma maters are not even from the ivy leagues.

It'snot the choosiness of the school but the character of the student that made the difference. Each person has to find the school that best fit his or her needs. Energetic people whould make their mark even if their friends had to ask them to repeat the name of the unheard collefge they were attending. Smart students, no matter where they attend college, will use their drive, intelligence, and sense of timing to create a situation where they can succeed.

By Staticsoliloquy (Staticsoliloquy) on Wednesday, December 31, 2003 - 12:03 am: Edit

c'mon people, dont you agree?

By Voigtrob (Voigtrob) on Wednesday, December 31, 2003 - 12:16 am: Edit

In many ways, you are right. At the same time, a Harvard diploma - as long as you are not a total jackass retard - holds at least some small guarantee of a good job... it's just a fact. Success, however, is another thing altogether - that requires passion and dedication, the more personal issues.

By Staticsoliloquy (Staticsoliloquy) on Wednesday, December 31, 2003 - 01:42 am: Edit

britt123, do you care to elaborate why you want to go to a "prestigious" school for 160K?

Going to college is like buying shoes. You don't choose to buy shoes because of its brand, Nike or Adidas or Jordan. You buy the shoes that make you feel comfortable and that fits you perfectly.

Only a terrible spender who love to spend his or her money would spend 120 bucks to buy a pair of jordan to get the SAME quality a prudent shopper would buy his or her shoes at Payless

And Anthony, do you care to explain why Harvard and Cornell were better than those other schools?

By Anthony (Anthony) on Wednesday, December 31, 2003 - 04:25 am: Edit

Staticsoliloquey, you're making three very false assumptions:

1) that the university that makes you feel comfortable and fits you perfectly is not going to be a "brand name" university

2) that the "brand name" university is exactly the same in quality as NoName University

3) that the "brand name" university is going to be more expensive than NoName University


Why were Harvard and Cornell better than CUNY Queens, Penn State, and BYU? As I said, they were better in every measurable way:

-- greater student/faculty interaction

-- higher quality faculty: classes weren't taught by graduate students or adjuncts at Harvard/Cornell, they were taught by full time tenured faculty members

-- stronger student body: class discussions were far more enjoyable and more intellectually stimulating at Harvard/Cornell. In contrast, classes at Queens dragged on and on and on and on and on because of unmotivated individuals who either did not participate or who clearly did not understand the material (I still remember the one student in my PoliSci 101 class at Queens who interrupted the professor every five minutes asking the meaning of a basic word, like what a "communist" is).

-- far more challenging material covered in classes: my undergraduate required intro statistics course at Cornell covered the same material as two GRADUATE statistics courses at Queens.

-- much greater support services: at Cornell and Harvard the Career Services Office helps you with interviews, helps you find a job, introduces you to employers, etc. At Queens, they (literally) tell you to go to monster.com or look at the newspaper Help Wanted ads, they won't even critique your resume for you, let alone do a mock job interview with you or call up alumni/employers on your behalf.

-- a boost in the law school admissions process. Several major law schools, such as UC Berkeley, adjust your GPA based on institutional "quality," which is usually based on the average standardized test scores for that university:

http://www.calstate.edu/AcadSen/E-Senator/Resolutions/1997-1998/2393.shtml

Although attempts have been made to change this, virtually all top programs do this to some extent. Whether you agree with it or not, it happens, and it's an advantage of a top school.


Am I saying that all lower ranked schools offer a bad education or that it's impossible to be successful if you graduate from one? Of course not! However, it will make things much harder for yourself. If you don't think the advantages are worth it, then don't apply, but don't go around saying that the advantages don't exist.

By Staticsoliloquy (Staticsoliloquy) on Wednesday, December 31, 2003 - 08:24 pm: Edit

BUMP ME!

By Staticsoliloquy (Staticsoliloquy) on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 06:48 pm: Edit

hah what advantages are you talking about? Don't be so blind.


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