Black Male Hoping for Yale

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Discus: What Are My Chances?: November 2003 Archive: Black Male Hoping for Yale
By Shsjonb (Shsjonb) on Friday, November 07, 2003 - 03:29 pm: Edit

SAT 1400(740M 660V)
SAT IIs 680ic, 660chem, 630writin(retake?)
25/360 but will be 22/360 by time I apply
3.65 GPA
National Achievement Semi-Finalist
Active in school and church
live in rural town in big state
Yale? Washington U. in St. Louis?

By Vivian (Vivian) on Friday, November 07, 2003 - 03:35 pm: Edit

I'm also an African-American... just applied ED to Columbia...

I think you have an awesome chance! good luck!

By Aeg315 (Aeg315) on Friday, November 07, 2003 - 03:49 pm: Edit

Wash U... definitely
Yale - most likely

By Shsjonb (Shsjonb) on Friday, November 07, 2003 - 03:58 pm: Edit

Thanks for the advice. By the way what are your stats Vivian?

By Michaeljordan23 (Michaeljordan23) on Friday, November 07, 2003 - 07:31 pm: Edit

i think if your gpa is consistent and you take honors/ap classes, you should get into yale

By Necromancer (Necromancer) on Friday, November 07, 2003 - 10:06 pm: Edit

Did you get the outstanding black award for PSAT? That would help a lot.

By Haithman (Haithman) on Saturday, November 08, 2003 - 12:11 am: Edit

Wow!, so if im black and have a 3.83 GPA and 1500 SAT i have a good chance of getting into Yale?!
You just made my day!

By Abz1986 (Abz1986) on Saturday, November 08, 2003 - 12:20 am: Edit

"Did you get the outstanding black award for PSAT? That would help a lot"

Yes he did, note: National Achievement Semi-Finalist

By Md09 (Md09) on Saturday, November 08, 2003 - 09:27 pm: Edit

Do u guys know how long does it take for Yale to process the applications? I send mine last week but I haven't gotten any confirmation yet and the check has not been cleared..I'm getting worried

By Ontrac3 (Ontrac3) on Sunday, November 09, 2003 - 05:07 pm: Edit

Basically any african-american/hispanic with over 1350 has virtually a 100% chance of Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc. These schools absolutely require diversity, and if diversity comes in the form of high test scores (i.e. >1350), there is no question of an acceptance.

You're fine.

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Sunday, November 09, 2003 - 06:57 pm: Edit

What you say isn't true. My son (African American, as am I) was rejected by Columbia with a 1410. Because of the scarcity of URMs with scores of 1350 and higher, the odds of their getting in are higher than of similar qualified Asians and whites, but even high scoring URMs aren't assured of getting into Ivies.

By Smartmika (Smartmika) on Sunday, November 09, 2003 - 07:01 pm: Edit

So unfortunate you can get into college simply because you're black.


By Jr86 (Jr86) on Sunday, November 09, 2003 - 09:37 pm: Edit

whats urm?
what about if ur hispanic?lol

By Valpal (Valpal) on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 01:45 pm: Edit

Smartmika, obviously you're not paying attention. Students like Shsjonb and Haithman get into college because they are as qualified as most of the school's other applicants AND because they contribute to the diversity of the college. Why do people get their noses bent out of joint over such students? It seems to me that they are damned if they are stellar students and damned if they are'nt. The resentment being expressed toward them is simply toxic---but racism in America no longer exists, does it? Yep, maligned for simply---"being". It's just so sad...

By Aeg315 (Aeg315) on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 03:54 pm: Edit

I agree. An white student with a 1500+ on his SATs, high GPA, and good ECs has a great chance at just about any great school. The Affirmative Action gives an extra push, making those schools pretty much "sure" bets for black students with the same credentials. But people tend to think that black students who get a 1200 on their SATs with 2.8 GPAs will get into Harvard and Yale, and this is really not the case. Usually, though, when I see a post made by some guy who says "African-American" with an SAT score of 1550, I laugh at them, for any person like that is guaranteed a spot ANYWHERE.

By Jim2003 (Jim2003) on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 08:41 pm: Edit

To Md09-

I would call Yale admissions for a confirmation. I applied electronically and got a confirmation e-mail instantly.

By Sprite888 (Sprite888) on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 08:55 pm: Edit

i got a 1430 on my SATS im hispanic and im not even allowed to apply to HYP according to my college counselor, so i think that your resentment with affirmative action is way of base. Anyone who gets into HYP is a stellar student, student/athlete or student/volunteer, unless their name is George W Bush, so calm the @#$%*$ down

By Metz (Metz) on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 09:44 pm: Edit

sprite, what type of grades did you get?

By Metz (Metz) on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 09:44 pm: Edit

sprite, what type of grades did you get?

By Sprite888 (Sprite888) on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 10:08 pm: Edit

oh im a good student, i wasn't looking for anyone to rate me, b/c even if I wouldnt apply to HYP, because they're not the right schools for me. My point simply was not fair to make such broad and racist statements.If u want u can rate me at Middlebury Ed- im about to apply there

By Neona (Neona) on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 10:23 pm: Edit

I'd apply to HYP if I were you, Sprite...

Well, I'm not you, but I'm applying anyway...

By Metz (Metz) on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 01:26 am: Edit

The reason I asked is because you're wrong. If your hispanic, are in the top 10%, and scored a 1430, you would have a good chance of getting into at least ONE of the HYP's if you applied. Just because your counselor says you can't get in, it doesn't make it so.

By Vivian (Vivian) on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 04:24 pm: Edit


I'm sorry to hear about you're son not getting in to Columbia. Did he apply Early Decision, or just all Regular Decision?

Where did he end up, and does he like it? Is he our age or was this a really long time ago?

Sorry so many questions!! I wanted to email you but you didn't post it, so....


By Sidestoner (Sidestoner) on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 06:14 pm: Edit

Shsjonb: you don't have snowball's chance in a very hot place of getting into Yale. You didn't even crack 700 on any of your SAT II's. So percentile-wise, where would that put you on national averages: probably in the range of 55-70%. Hey not bad. Then adjust that for Yale's average scores and your in the single digit percentiles.

Your GPA is commendable, but it won't impress anyone at Yale.

And if "active in school and church" is all you got for EC's, you're sunk. If you want a decent chance at Yale, the definition of active had better be "President of [insert LONG list here]."

By Neo (Neo) on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 06:43 pm: Edit

Sidestoner is dead wrong :)

You've got as good a shot as any Yalie on this board (including myself). Go for it, and don't be surprised it/when you get in.

By Shsjonb (Shsjonb) on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 06:44 pm: Edit

Actually I am retaking the SAT IIs and will probably get an combined average of 750+. And I really didn't feel like listing all my activities. By the way after colleges hear President of __________ so many times they begin to doubt the importance of your activities.

By Sidestoner (Sidestoner) on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 09:11 pm: Edit

To Neo: Doesing being a URM help that much? I doubt it, but if it does then that's the most unjust system ever.

Shsjonb: If you can pull your SAT II's to AT LEAST 700, you would have a decent chance. But given your previous scores that might be slightly difficult (unless there you were sick the day of the tests or something which would explain the 600's). And you're right, admissions officers might be getting numb to hearing president of _______ all the time, but they won't even notice "active in school and church."

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 11:55 pm: Edit

He got into Michigan and Vandy, but decided to go to a tier 2 state u because he is a big sports fan and loved their teams. He had a great time in college watching sports games and doing ECs, but didn't crack the books.
I am sure that he was rejected by Columbia because while he had a 1410 SAT I, av 700 SAT IIs and probably was one of the best in the country in his (nonathletic) major EC, his grades were not as high as were his scores because he didn't believe in studying. I think Columbia made a good decision.
He's a wonderful young man, but wouldn't have taken advantage of Columbia.

By Serdu (Serdu) on Saturday, November 15, 2003 - 10:26 pm: Edit


What if a URM with really high everything except SAT's (1300ish maybe less), (valedictorian, ap scholar,) all that... is under some pretty harsh socioeconomic circumstances, first-generation, non-native english speaker, parents dont speak english, etc. Yet they managed to come out on top with 4.0 + and top rank, 760 Writing, 650 Verbal, etc. BUt horrrific, inexcusable Math scores? Would the SAT still be seen in the same light then? Isn't measured against socioeconomic background? What id this person's essays were VERY original and cretive and simulataneously demonstrate academic passion and creativity. What if teacher recs are top notch, most HONESTLY rating them as the top studetns in their careers? Is the SAT still going to keep them out?

Anyone wondering yes, I am asking about me. Please respond.

By Serdu (Serdu) on Saturday, November 15, 2003 - 11:08 pm: Edit


By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Saturday, November 15, 2003 - 11:15 pm: Edit

It depends upon how difficult it is to find URMs like them, it also depends upon the school, their proposed major and exactly how bad their math scores were.

I also would presume that if the scores were ridiculously low, such as a 500 math, the student has the good sense to be studying now so as to take the test over and to do much better.

With a 760 writing SAT, I am guessing that with a retake, the SAT I v also would rise. Sounds like you have some major linguistic talents -- to be able to learn a second language well enough to get such a high writing score, That's why I think that if you study more, you can increase your SAT V score, too.

It is possible for people with your background to get into Ivies with 1300 or so SAT scores. Remember, though, that no matter how stellar a person is, no matter what their race or SES background is, no one is a shoo in for Ivies. Admission also depends on factors beyond applicants' control such as whether the college feels it needs students with a certain skill or who come from a certain part of the world.

Always have a good back-up college that is a true safety and that you'd be happy to attend.

If the student is applying to a place such as MIT, Cal Tech, and has math scores in the low 600s or below, their chances are probably very low that they'll get accepted. Their math score would indicate they don't have the math background to survive at such a school.

If the person plans to be an engineer or a doctor, they also may have great difficulty getting into a top 25 school because odds would be against their being able to handle a science major at a top ranked school.

By Serdu (Serdu) on Sunday, November 16, 2003 - 12:45 am: Edit

Thank god I am not! Thank you so much for responding. The school? Harvard. The bad score? yup a 500. I am re-taking in December and am piously studying right now. Like I said, I have very good EC's, rank is 1st, 4.46, essays were VERY interesting, insightful, and gave some in-depth analysis on many obstacles I've overcome. I've gotten a 760 in Writing, an 800 Spanish, even a 600 in French (I taught myself since childhood). I've done EA to display more interest!
Northstarmom, its just my SAT II Math and SAT I math that is killing me. My verbal is 650, but I KNOW I will do much better in Dec. Hopefully, in 700 range. ITS THE MATH!! Which Ironically is supposed to be very EASY to raise. I am REALLY studying in the next 20 days.
My interviewer and I had lots of common bonds; he too was from a lower socioeconomic background, father was unemployed, etc. Its two board scores that are just shattering myself confidence right now. I am going to retake! Respond Northstarmom

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Sunday, November 16, 2003 - 01:15 am: Edit

You have a chance at Harvard, my alma mater. I know an African American student there, first generation college, ghetto high school, extraordinary ECs, grades, leadership, etc., but a 1200 SAT who got in. Clearly her SAT reflected the poor quality of her h.s., not the quality of her mind.
I doubt that you'll get in EA, however, because only the people who truly walk on water get in EA. Students accepted EA are students whom Harvard knows would still be shoo-ins after all applications are in. In my area, the EA admit had 1600 SATs, #1 national ranking in an academic EC, state recognition in another academic EC that was not related to the other EC, had done in depth research in another academic area and was planning on majoring in something totally different at Harvard.

Meanwhile, I also suggest that you look at other top 25 schools to apply to. Even if you don't get into Harvard, you have a chance at some of the other top colleges.

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Sunday, November 16, 2003 - 01:19 am: Edit

Check out the 11/14/03 Wash Post article at this link:

It says that there are only 72 African Americans who this year got a 1500 or higher on the SAT. Only 1,877 black students (about 1.5% of black students) got 1300 or higher.

It quotes an Amherst adcom as saying the competition is fierce for such students.

For all students who took the SAT, 148,024 (about 10 percent of test takers) scored higher than 1300, and 13,897 earned scores higher than 1500.

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Sunday, November 16, 2003 - 01:22 am: Edit

Hispanics, too, with high scores like yours on the SAT are in short supply. Unless you are carrying a C- average or something, your counselor should be allowing you to apply to Ivies and similar schools. Check out the Wash Post Warticle that I posted the link to in my previous message. Show the article to your counselor and to your parents (so they can help you have the counselor allow you to apply).

By Serdu (Serdu) on Sunday, November 16, 2003 - 02:56 pm: Edit

Northstarmom, I went to Amherst's SOCOH this fall! That is so weird! "They don't realize they are being fought over"? Are you serious? I shook this woman's hand when I arrived on campus. Thanks for responding Northstarmom.

By Serdu (Serdu) on Sunday, November 16, 2003 - 10:05 pm: Edit

Norhtstarmom, are you there?

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