Some musings about AFFIRMATIVE ACTION





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Discus: What Are My Chances?: December 2002 Archive: Some musings about AFFIRMATIVE ACTION
By Me on Saturday, December 14, 2002 - 11:33 pm: Edit

Now that a lot of people have gotten back their EA and ED decisions, I thought I'd take the opportunity to open the forum to the issue of Affirmative Action. From reading some of the posts about decisions, its obvious that a lot of really qualified applicants were rejected (all of them white) and some seemingly unqualified applicants were accepted (none of them white). I really feel sorry for white kids with 1580's who were rejected while some URM's with an 1150 (see "Any URM's accepted?" post) were admitted to Harvard. Racism works both ways, everyone. There are poor white kids just as disadvantaged as URM's.

By you on Sunday, December 15, 2002 - 01:54 am: Edit

hey same with asians, "me"...

By pro aa on Sunday, December 15, 2002 - 02:10 am: Edit

AGREED. there ARE poor white kids in the same situation and believe it or not they DO have some edge. SATs are judged based on economic background too..if your dad's a janitor like mine, white or URM (like me), some consideration will be taken. YES its unfair for those poor whites but there are many more poor URMS out there and they need the help a little more. As for ASIANS.. you're all geniuses so forget you! You will be stinkin rich no matter where ya go (feel better?) !

By azn kid on Sunday, December 15, 2002 - 02:14 am: Edit

By that logic, whites will be "stinkin rich" wherever they go.

There are lots of Asians who aren't smart and they get stuck at the bottom too.

By Me on Sunday, December 15, 2002 - 03:47 am: Edit

HEY HEY WAIT......just going by pure numbers, there are just as many poor whites as poor URMS....plus, poor URMS get MUUUUCH more advantage than poor whites, you simply get a little boost for mentioning that they're poor in their essay.

By kp on Sunday, December 15, 2002 - 10:45 am: Edit

I disagree. We need the high percentages of URMs to maintain diversity. Come on. What value is an education if there aren't some underqualified hispanics and blacks on campus to enrich the environment. Everyone knows that every black kid is disadvantaged and has been the victim of some sort of hate crime. As for the asians, well they have never been discriminated against. Asians are all geniuses and will be rich anyway so you might as well reject them.

By Charles Alwakeel on Sunday, December 15, 2002 - 11:38 am: Edit

Come on, the asian comments are unfounded. I doubt every asian is a genius. In regards to the URM stuff... I am puerto rican... I take classes in spanish... I live in spanish... the SAT is in english. It is completely unfair for you to expect me to have your 1600 SAT. It would be the same as for me to expect you to have a spanish SAT.
Let me show this to you mathematically...
My score in the Spanish equivalent of the SAT were about 1540/1600. While in the SAT I, I had 1350 overall...

By Healthy_Body (Healthy_Body) on Sunday, December 15, 2002 - 11:45 am: Edit

There are 3 times as many hispanics and 3 times as many african americans in this country than asians. Now think about what "under-represented" means. In the college system, it is true that there is a disproportionate number of asians, but do you think that's really due to racial differences? If it were up to me, I'd make AA based on economic status rather than race. Also, the standardized tests, ARE in english and i do empathize with those that are not native speakers, but english IS the widely used language in this country.

By Mad on Sunday, December 15, 2002 - 03:40 pm: Edit

--As for the asians, well they have never been discriminated against. Asians are all geniuses and will be rich anyway so you might as well reject them.--

I have never heard a comment that is more false than this one. I am Chinese, and you can't begin to understand all the discrimination we face. There's always those stupid jokes at school, for example: "How do asian parents name their kids? By dropping spoons! (Ching Chang Chong)" In real life, Asians are always taken advantage of, because English is not their first language. All I have to say to you is this: stop being so ignorant.

So before you begin to say that Asians haven't been discriminated against, think again. BTW, the only reason there's discrimation is because those ignorant Americans choose to be incredibly stupid. Just look at the bondage of black slaves in the colonial era and the rejection of Irish and Chinese immigrants in the early 1900s.

By azn girl on Sunday, December 15, 2002 - 03:59 pm: Edit

Asians are not an academic minority, and that really hurts us not so genius Asians. I'm Japanese, and I've been living in America for 12 years. I've been doing great in school, and I thought that getting into college would be a breeze, but wow, I was so wrong. It hurt me so much when I got deferred from georgetown but my black friend, with lower test scores, GPA, less Ecs, etc, got accepted.
I don't know if it's because colleges are taking other more qualified asians or that I'm just not qualified period, but it's not true that all asians are geniuses. I think affirmative action worked against me, and I'm so so upset.

By ricecake on Sunday, December 15, 2002 - 04:17 pm: Edit

asians need to work 3x harder than whites, 9x harder than hispanics/blacks, 27x harder than native americans... and so on, you get the point. the amount of work we need to put in just to be "at par" with everyone else is ridiculous. if that isn't discrimination, i don't know what is.

By damn on Sunday, December 15, 2002 - 04:35 pm: Edit

yes asians do have it the worst.. im korean and have experienced this kind of discrimination first hand..

By Mrowry on Sunday, December 15, 2002 - 04:56 pm: Edit

A white mom recently asked my mom (I'm Asian), "Is it true that colleges only count 80% of Asians' SAT scores?" Of course, it's just a rumor, but isn't that a shocking allegation? I certainly hope it's not true...

By anonymous on Sunday, December 15, 2002 - 04:59 pm: Edit

Yes, you guys make valid points. However, there are some points you are missing. If Economic AA was put into place, blacks/hispanics would still reap the benefits. This would be due to the fact that there more poor blacks/hispanics than whites/asians. Another point you are missing, is even if AA action was abrogated; colleges would still find ways to admit urm's. The numbers of URM's would be abated, but AA practices would still be used. Colleges want a diverse class, not necessarily the most competent one. There are many qualified Asians and this hinders there acceptance chances. Colleges will only take in a certain amount of every race. Meaning, if there are 10 spots and 30 people apply and of these applicants 15 are asian. Then some of the Asians will be rejected due to space, even if the asians are more qualified than the whites, blacks, hispanics etc. They might only take two asians to make room for the others, despite the fact that all the asians were more competent than the other races. It's sad and I would know from experience but you have to learn to deal with it.

By azn kid on Sunday, December 15, 2002 - 06:10 pm: Edit

If that's really the case, how come there is still a majority of whites over Asians if all Asians are supposedly "geniuses?"

By x on Sunday, December 15, 2002 - 07:56 pm: Edit

Excuse me KP, contrary to popular belief, the first asians arrived in the 1700s. They are NOT like many say, recent comers who have never contributed anything. You think asians have never been discriminated against? Check out asian american history. There have been sooooo many anti-asian acts and you know the worst thing? None of it is ever included anywhere. That's why people like you remain in the dark. Whoever does well, gets there because they work hard. There is no such thing as a more privileged race! As for the AA thing... Everyone agrees that the college campus needs to be diverse, but to a certain point AA has gone to reverse discrimiation against caucasions and asians. The thing that irks me is knowing that if my skin was a different color I'd be a shoo-in at all these "reach" colleges.

By Healthy_Body (Healthy_Body) on Sunday, December 15, 2002 - 11:11 pm: Edit

There's definately a lot of discrimination against minorities--asian and non-asian. However, the asian population in the united states is somewhat weak and poorly organized. For example, Abercrombie and Fitch produced a line of asian-stereotyped t-shirts which were deemed racist by asian groups. "Two whites don't make a wong", "Get your buddha on the floor". AF pulled the shirts and made a weak apology on like page 46 of a magazine. If the shirts had said something about african americans, you can bet some bigwig like Al Sharpton would be going crazy.

As for AA, yes i think it should be based on economic status. Yes, more blacks and hispanics would get in because there are more poor blacks and hispanics, but this is what we want! To help underprivileged applicants, not to help applicants because of their ethicity.

By Gregon on Sunday, December 15, 2002 - 11:12 pm: Edit

I'm of southern European descent. My great grandparents were called derrogatory names too, and payed low wages. My great grandfather was a coal miner. Shouldn't I reap some benefits too?

What's wrong with having a school of the brightest, smartest kids with the best talents. If those kids happen to be all Asian (which they are by the numbers) then so be it. Shouldn't the best schools have the best students?

The real problem with AA though must be when you get to college. Imagine, you're African American with a 1600. You've played in a prestigious orchestra, wrote research papers, and won state cross country. You go to college and everyone ASSUMES "Oh there's another one of those black kids who got lower scores and had lower credentials. Must not be as smart as the rest of us." Doesn't that sound racist? Do you want to put URM's through that? I sure don't.

By Shannon on Monday, December 16, 2002 - 12:06 am: Edit

thx, Gregon.

By bub on Monday, December 16, 2002 - 04:13 am: Edit

about affirmative action, coddling URMs through the educational system is only teaching them that their race gives them special precedence over other whites or asians. This practice of patronization is DEFINITELY a step that should not be taken if URMs are to be eventually integrated into the educational system. Can any of you truthfull tell me that the by coddling URMs we are encouraging them to work as hard as their white and asian colleagues? I highly doubt it. Hard work is hard work. Its earned with every tear and drop of sweat.
Skin color should have nothing to do with it. Nor should your parents or whether you know anyone on the board of directors. I support economic affirmative action because that is NOT coddling. It IS making up for a severe disadvantage. As an asian, I am quite surprised that everyone thinks we are geniuses. It's definitely not true. What is true is that our parents push us harder, and consequently, we try harder whether we like it or not. If the URMs want to gain a competitive edge in the educational battlefield, it has to start with the parents and the mindset.
I am sorry that colonial slavery and savage civil wars have damaged the growth of many URMs, but many asian countries are not much different. China was very backward, Japan was devastated by the atomic bomb, Vietnam was the site of a horrific war, as was Korea. If anything, Asia has been through as much turmoil as any other region.

ok, now back to my english paper.

By Jefferson on Monday, December 16, 2002 - 05:43 am: Edit

Alright. You guys all are dumb in some respect. Trying to get into college with academics alone will just not cut the muster without a **** load of luck. One needs athletic recruiting, that is what helps WAY more than anything else. I was just accepted to Yale and my grades are a 3.3 and I have a 1220 SAT Score, but I sure as hell can play tennis and I am committed to doing it for four years straight. My best friend is a genius, and he had a flawless A grade GPA, and set a record for 11 APs in his school and passed all with 5s. How the hell? I don't know and he had a 1600 SAT score and 800s on all SAT IIs. He didn't get into Harvard, Yale, Columbia, Stanford, Cornell, Princeton, Dartmouth, UPenn or Brown. He ended up going to UC Berkeley. He was a track runner and science club pres as well. But he was not recruited, and that's what helps most.
Just lettin y'all know

By kp on Monday, December 16, 2002 - 11:15 am: Edit

I was being sarcastic......I'm surprised that people actually took that seriously....

By rlsmith on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 11:56 am: Edit

How odd.

We admit a minority student a little less qualified and some white people get all angry, crying "racism."

Yet, we admit an equally unqualified white student from money (think of our president) or a student-athlete, and most white people don't care.

The focus of some white people on race in this context confirms my suspicions:

Any white person against affirmative action for minorities, but not against affirmative action for rich white people is not only a hypocrite, but a racist.

By sup on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 05:22 pm: Edit

"How do asian parents name their kids? By dropping spoons! (Ching Chang Chong)" thats a good one. funny

By anonymous on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 05:37 pm: Edit

I agree with rlsmith. The white and asian people on this site have a problem with lesser qualified blacks and hispanics getting into the "top 50" schools but don't have a problem with celebrities/legacys/filthy rich people getting in with less than stellar stats. The truth is they really don't give a damn about racism, they're just mad cause they got deferred ed/ea.

By dfg on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 06:04 pm: Edit

yeah, hispanics/aa's for the most part are loud, rambunctious and stupid. i went to this cheap SAT course at MIT and my teacher was a black girl. And, when the class (mostly asians) asked her what she got, she said 1300. She asked us what most of us got and we were like 1350 so far hoping for above 1450. She was all surprised and said that we had great scores and could get in anywhere. What she is clueless to is that she is a stupid african and that's the reason she got in so that the mit class can have some inferiors. An asian with a 1300 has a 5% chance of acceptance. I respect black people with good scores/ec's/sports/or something, but the rich ones with nothing really that get into ivy/top 50 schools don't deserve it when so many other asians deserve it. Many asians work like 20 times harder and can't get in. And, this hispanic kid who goofed off and parties all night gets in. That's unfair. If i got into an ivy and saw a black kid, i wouldn't want to be friends with him cause for the most part he probably got in just cause he was black. He wouldn't help me intellectually, i wouldn't be able to relate to him.

By what? on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 08:06 pm: Edit

i may not agree with affirmative action, but thats just racist

By kp on Thursday, December 19, 2002 - 04:36 pm: Edit

I'm not white or asian.... rlsmith.....how would you know if it was a white kid complaining and anonymous...you don't know whether I am deffered. Is it just me or was that statement just really random. People don't complain about atheltics because atheletes are recruited by merit. It takes work to be recruited by a top school. And if there were enough cases of whites with money then I would care too but the fact is that all but a very few developmental cases are rejected for it to mean much. And isn't it inherently racist to say that if a WHITE person says any particular thing he is a hypocrite or a racist or any other nasty term. I guess only non-whites can be against affirmative action.

By rlsmith on Thursday, December 19, 2002 - 05:03 pm: Edit

What is the deal with kp?

It doesn't take work to get into a good school. Just look at all the rich kids at the Ivy Leagues. I'm sorry, but when you have the benefit of pricy private colleges, expensive one-on-one tutors, SAT summer camps, and a wealthy parent who just happens to be a "donor" that is not hard work. Of course, those who do come from poor (usually minority) or middle class backgrounds who do actually get into an ivy league school do get in through hard work, not connections and special favors.

Athletes recruited by merit? Are you referring to athletic merit? The last time I checked, colleges are in the business of educating people, not running a football team.

Asians never been discriminated against? What about the Japanese internment camps in WWII? The Chinese Exclusion Act of 1852?

A white person can be against affirmative action and not be a racist or a hypocrite AS LONG AS they are also against affirmative action programs for unqualified athletes and rich whites. Otherwise, they are clearly racists and hypocrites.


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