Does being a minority rREALLY help?





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Discus: What Are My Chances?: September 2003 Archive: Does being a minority rREALLY help?
By Sadeyedlady (Sadeyedlady) on Monday, August 25, 2003 - 03:36 am: Edit

These are the schools I want to get in to:

Bryn Mawr
Smith
Wellesley
Vassar
Wesleyan
Barnard
Princeton
Swarthmore

I have a 1430 SAT but I think I can bring it up to a 1500.

My GPA is around a 3.75

I will have taken by the time I graduate:
AP Language (5)
AP Literature
AP Statistics
AP Biology
AP World History (4)
AP US History
AP French (3 - but I had only taken French 4 when I took the exam)

I was born in Nigeria and lived in England for about 10 years.

I will have a recommendation from a Harvard Professor (I went to a summer writing program and she was the teacher).

I'm President of the Drama Club.
I'm president of students for global responsibility (a service/anti war group)
I cofounded a club for Social Justice.
I helped organize the large antiwar marches in DC last year.
I volunteer at the National Organization for Women, UNICEF and I tutored children in Science.
I am a teacher's assistant for the English Department.
I recruit members for the Fine Arts Club
I am on the Literary Magazine Staff.

I havent taken the SAT 2 yet but im guessing: 800 Writing, 750 Literature, 600 Math. (not a math person)

I'm worried because I attend a magnet high school but im not in the magnet program because i moved to the school in 11th grade and you can only join the magnet program in 9th. Also, i really slacked off my sophomore year and only took 5 academic classes, only 4 of which were honors.

By Sadeyedlady (Sadeyedlady) on Monday, August 25, 2003 - 03:29 pm: Edit

I should add that I'm a US Citizen, not an international applicant.

By Serdu (Serdu) on Monday, August 25, 2003 - 04:50 pm: Edit

Then, you have just a good a shot as a regular minority might. One more question: WHAT IS YOUR RANK? GPA is decent, though not spectacular. SAT& SAT II's definitely won't be an issue. Recommendation is great. Courseload is flawless. Don't know what the 10 years in England/Born in Africa will do for you. I would think it was something negative, because they might want to judge you under an International perspective. But at any rate, you are a minority! Your chances are excellent. But please don't expect anything of the IVIES. They have peculiar systems of admissions that will forever be esoteric to the rest of the world.
If your a US, none of that stuff with the England/Africa will matter.

By Sadeyedlady (Sadeyedlady) on Monday, August 25, 2003 - 04:56 pm: Edit

My school doesn't do rankings. They just list the GPA and say what percent of the school has that GPA. For example, right now, the school profile says: GPA 3.75 - 4.00 top 18%. So I could be in the top 1% or I could just be in the top 18%. Colleges would have no way of knowing.

I'm definitely not international, because I gave up my Nigerian and English citizenship when I became a US Citizen. So I guess I'm just a regular African American.

By Sadeyedlady (Sadeyedlady) on Monday, August 25, 2003 - 11:56 pm: Edit

also, my sister went to vassar. but i dont think that connection is as strong as if my mother went there.

By Serdu (Serdu) on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 07:28 pm: Edit

Good then, you are regular US minority. Note that they will ask for birthplace. As long a you are a US citizen, I'm sure it won't matter. Rank is great, and you should find a way to report it. I would like to think that at schools where ranking is against policy, you could ask for what I call the "Hypothetical" Rank. Where you WOULD stand in the class IF they did rank you.
You HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW!! They can't really deny it to you. Also, I've read extensively on the process and most boks agree that if your school doesn't provide an exact rank and if you are in a large class, this could hurt you terribly.

EXAMPLE- You are designated as top 10% only, in a class of 300. Colleges will ask "Is she near number 1 or number 30". See? They will be forced to rely more on your standardized test taking which you seem to be strong in.

At any rate you are a minority and will have favorable outcomes. I think you are in at the majority od your school. just write a good essay.

By Davidrune (Davidrune) on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 09:17 pm: Edit

Sweet, I was born in Nigeria too. And now I live in Canada.

By Davidrune (Davidrune) on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 09:17 pm: Edit

What are you? Yoruba, Hausa, Ibo? or in between?

By Sadeyedlady (Sadeyedlady) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 06:29 pm: Edit

My mom is Hausa and my dad is Longuda.

By Sadeyedlady (Sadeyedlady) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 06:30 pm: Edit

i was born in maiduguri.

By Davidrune (Davidrune) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 08:58 pm: Edit

oh, I'm yoruba, so I don't really like you.

By Sadeyedlady (Sadeyedlady) on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 08:50 pm: Edit

Thanks.

Can anyone else help me with more opinions?

By Rubenizm (Rubenizm) on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 09:04 pm: Edit

aw ethnic wars...how sweet.

By Rubenizm (Rubenizm) on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 09:05 pm: Edit

but the fact that you've lived in nigeria AND england should help you. Add to that your being black and your superb scores, you should be able to easily get into princeton and swarthmore. The fact that you're not a math person might hurt at princeton.

By Neo (Neo) on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 09:42 pm: Edit

Hey, I was born in Nigeria as well...

Both of my parents are Yoruba.

I'd like to go to MIT.

Nice to meet you guys :^)

By Magenta (Magenta) on Monday, September 01, 2003 - 12:41 am: Edit

Okay, you aren't a math person as this shows. ;)

"They just list the GPA and say what percent of the school has that GPA. For example, right now, the school profile says: GPA 3.75 - 4.00 top 18%. So I could be in the top 1% or I could just be in the top 18%. Colleges would have no way of knowing."

If they state that your GPA is 3.75 (saying that it is that rather than "around that") and that the range of 3.75 to 4.00 is top 18%, they know that 3.75 is the 18% mark. Trust me, the folks at college admissions know enough to figure that out.

That said, your stats for a minority (and they DO use different criteria here) are good enough to apply to any school you want, though it's a crap shot to say if you'll get into Princeton or a few of the others (if not all the others as you aren't listing state universities or other sure things here). As I just told someone in another thread, if you can afford the $ and time to both apply to all those schools and pay the tuition for each, apply to them all and see how it goes. Just don't be thinking for a minute they won't know you were ranked at about the top 18th percentile. ;) The good news is, for most schools, that will be plenty high enough for a minority, especially one with a background of living in different countries who has shown leadership as you have. Good luck!

By Sadeyedlady (Sadeyedlady) on Monday, September 01, 2003 - 01:26 am: Edit

OK..to clear up the rank thing. It says Unweighted GPA.. 3.51 - 4.00 18& and then it says weighted GPA 4.51 and above 9% 4.01 to 4.50 9%.

I have a 3.75ish GPA. However I dont think im top 10% because theres a magnet program housed here and all their classes are honors and i think they're included in this.

By Sadeyedlady (Sadeyedlady) on Tuesday, September 02, 2003 - 03:03 pm: Edit

bump

By Sadeyedlady (Sadeyedlady) on Friday, September 05, 2003 - 11:56 pm: Edit

im dropping princeton, adding maybe georgetown and columbia.

correction to gpa - now a 3.9

By Magenta (Magenta) on Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 11:11 am: Edit

How did the GPA suddenly change, and what was your reason for dropping Princeton?

By Sadeyedlady (Sadeyedlady) on Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 05:14 pm: Edit

My GPA didn't change, i just didn't know what it was before and took a guess. I dropped Princeton after I visited because it has none of the things I'm looking for in a school although my mom loves it.

It's too big (as you can see all my schools are under 3000 students)
It's very classist.
It's too conservative.
Whites and blacks are segregated.

By Sadeyedlady (Sadeyedlady) on Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 05:14 pm: Edit

More importantly - I wouldn't get in.

By Neo (Neo) on Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 05:24 pm: Edit

"Whites and blacks are segregated"?

Please explain.

By Magenta (Magenta) on Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 08:23 pm: Edit

So you are mainly shooting for one of the Seven Sisters (what's the reason you don't have Radcliff and Mount Holyoke on the list?). With the GPA and SAT scores you quote (saying you can get what you think you can, and the 1500 won't even be needed at any of these left on your list though it certainly can't hurt to get it that high) and the ECs you have, I think your chances are quite good at what's on your list now. Good luck!

And I am wondering what you meant by whites and blacks being segregated myself...I take it you mean they hang out in different cliques as opposed to anything the school is doing as if they have separate dorms or classes (for anything but maybe a minority scholarship program, even though those my name have been found unconstitutional it seems but at least one still exists by letting in token Asians and maybe even a white here and there) or the like, I think that would be illegal, wouldn't it?

At our son's university, there is a lot of diversity in culture, religion, etc. (students come from over 90 countries last I heard), but there is still a LOT of segregation on the *students'* part...the billiards room looks like an Asian society lounge all the time (can't figure out how that came to be, but it did within a year of the place opening), and in the cafeteria, other than tables occupied by sports team members, the tables tend to be (not always are, but tend to be) mostly all Indians or black (can't say African Americans here as many have been sent to the university by their own African countries but are NOT Americans, and this is the same for a good number of the Indians) or Asian or white, etc. The exception is usually a boyfriend or girlfriend (so when it comes to dating versus just hanging out, they do often go outside the group). But there are exception of tables all the same, like the other day my son (who is white) had lunch with a few Indian friends, one of those girl's white boyfriend, a few Asians, and an African American (she is a citizen)....our son tends to find all people interesting and gets along with most everyone just fine.

I'm guessing this sort of "clique" culture goes on in most every (if not every) college where there is "diversity" (which is most colleges today) and indeed, continues throughout adulthood. Most people as adults seem to hang out with *mostly* (not exclusively, but mostly) the same race, similar educational level of attainment, similar social status, etc., don't you think?

By Paceandnyustud (Paceandnyustud) on Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 08:49 pm: Edit

Honestly I think that you should get in based on your own merit then by race factor. I am half white half spanish and I DO NOT put my race or ethnicity in my application. I want to know I got in because I deserved it not because half of me is underrepresented. And as for the person with the high GPA and SAT scores you will do fine without the race factor.

By Sadeyedlady (Sadeyedlady) on Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 09:06 pm: Edit

As far as segregation at Princeton - they're rated number 6 or something in the princeton review ranking for the category "races are separated". my black friend who went there only has black friends and says that that people at conservative schools are more conscious of race than people at liberal schools. i dont want to go to a school where a person can have friends of only one race. also when i visited, it had a very 'country club' atmosphere that i don't think i'd be comfortable in. Another college guide book says that even the blacks separate themselves based on whether they went to public or private school.

By Sadeyedlady (Sadeyedlady) on Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 09:09 pm: Edit

I did add Mount Holyoke to my list and I dropped Wesleyan. Is Radcliff still a separate college? My sister attended Vassar and there were no noticeable racial cliques there.

By Magenta (Magenta) on Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 09:30 pm: Edit

I thought Radcliff was a separate college, but really don't know. I only have a son and don't know much about Radcliff other than it is one of the Seven Sisters and not far from Harvard. My mother had always wanted me to attend Wellesley, but it was her dream and not mine. I needed a school with males to be happy.

I just looked up Radcliff and it does seem they get Harvard degrees now, so perhaps there is not a separate college anymore there.

By Covalentbond007 (Covalentbond007) on Sunday, September 07, 2003 - 12:14 am: Edit

Paceandnyustud, thank you for putting your content of your character before the color of your skin.

10% of college applicants in 1998 refused to check a race box. In 2002, it was 18%. This number can only go up as more students discover how universities odiously uses race as the determining factor in admissions. We will become a nation where race is not used against or for each individual citizen. Where each citizen is judged on what they can achieve, not what they are born into. One can only dream of that day.

By Sadeyedlady (Sadeyedlady) on Sunday, September 07, 2003 - 01:22 pm: Edit

Well, since most of my essay is about Nigeria, even if I didn't check the race button, they'd be able to figure it out. They could also tell from my name.

By Covalentbond007 (Covalentbond007) on Sunday, September 07, 2003 - 02:05 pm: Edit

If it won't make a difference, then why check it?

You are indeed correct in some circumstances. Some schools are truly committed to helping URMs, however misguided their attempts are. The gap between URM and non-URM drop out rates in these schools are much smaller. These schools also provide a lot of support for URMs. I think these schools are genuinely trying to help URMs.

Other schools, however, are only interested in you as a number they can report to their race obsessed political backers and/or extortionists. If you do not mark "black", then you will not be part of the 7%-8% "critical mass" quota and will instead be put in the useless "other" category. These universities will usually monitor the racial composition of an incoming class on day to day basis to achieve their critical mass/racial balancing goals. URM Drop out rates for these schools are often 2-3X more than non-URM drop out rates. In these type of schools, marking black means a lot.

By Neo (Neo) on Sunday, September 07, 2003 - 06:09 pm: Edit

Covalentbond007 is a bit misguided.

By Sadeyedlady (Sadeyedlady) on Sunday, September 07, 2003 - 10:24 pm: Edit

I agree.

By Covalentbond007 (Covalentbond007) on Sunday, September 07, 2003 - 11:51 pm: Edit

No, I'm terribly misguided. Let me give you the answer you wanted.

Being a minority helps greatly but not because you are a minority but because of the diversity you bring to campus. There is nothing wrong with using this diversity to get into college. It is just one factor among many, many factors.

Cool? You seem to really enjoy those type of intellectually dishonest answers. I'm trying to open your eyes when you really don't want them to be open. Why bother? I give up.

By Sadeyedlady (Sadeyedlady) on Tuesday, September 09, 2003 - 03:49 pm: Edit

anyone else with opinions? (on me getting in not on how fair the admissions process is)

By Sadeyedlady (Sadeyedlady) on Thursday, September 11, 2003 - 03:24 pm: Edit

pleaseeee..any more opinions? I'm about to send out my part 1's

By Sadeyedlady (Sadeyedlady) on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 04:07 pm: Edit

please...

By Shsjonb (Shsjonb) on Friday, September 19, 2003 - 11:11 pm: Edit

I'd say you have atleast a 50% chance of getting into Princeton. I'm also applying there but my stats are a little lower than yours. SAT 1370 SATII:770,730,700. Maybe we'll both get in. Where else are you looking?

By Sadeyedlady (Sadeyedlady) on Friday, September 19, 2003 - 11:16 pm: Edit

actually i dropped Princeton...and added wesleyan and yale.

By Shsjonb (Shsjonb) on Saturday, September 20, 2003 - 04:12 pm: Edit

Why'd you drop Princeton?

By Sadeyedlady (Sadeyedlady) on Sunday, September 21, 2003 - 02:03 pm: Edit

Thought it was too classist.


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