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Canadian here. I want to go to Dartmouth college. I feel that I deserve the best education that money can buy and that I have the necessary character of mind to get an ivy league degree.

I'm currently taking a year off from highschool, and I will be taking some courses again because my grades were seriously lackluster and could have been much better. To be honest, my "GPA" sucks compared to the vast majority of prospects.

However, I have a perfect SAT score of 1600. I have a Mensa membership. I run my own business and when I have a goal to make my writing skills are prodigious. I'm also getting a hell of a lot of volunteer hours this year. I've got other subtle work-related credentials and a few highschool clubs. I also play guitar and sing in a band.

My question would be this: Can you make up for "wasted time" if you want to get in to an ivy league? Like I said, I'm taking courses over again. Is my tarnished record going to stop me from ever getting admitted? Or will my evidently superior intellect bail me out? (Sidenote: Not being arrogant, here.) Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks and God bless.

By stuff on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 08:50 am: Edit

Oh and a big hello to everyone in the Montreal area.

By seeker on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 09:37 am: Edit

There is a difference between intelligence and diligence, and evidently colleges will take note of this.

By Rhonda on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 12:00 pm: Edit

Most colleges, including ivies, say that the HS transcript (meaning grades and difficulty of courses) is the single most important factor in admissions. While high GPA alone won't get someone in, it's going to be hard to overcome a low one. And your high SAT score is going to make you look like a slacker -- most colleges would prefer someone with a slightly lower score (we're talking about a few questions difference between a 1500 and 1600, after all), but a better HS record. Good luck anyway.

By Stuff on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 01:21 pm: Edit

I see.

Follow up question then: can I 'fix' my grades? I mean, of course I can in the literal sense by taking some courses over again and new courses, but will they be seriously swayed by a lazy history?

By Stuff on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 01:28 pm: Edit

Oh, and keep in mind that up until recently in Ontario, we had five years of highschool. The last year was something called OAC, which I guess would be the equivalent of your honours courses. All of our programs can also be taken at different levels (basic, general, advanced). I took all advanced before OAC, as OAC by definition is considered advanced and is in fact at the university level in many areas.

By Rhonda on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 02:44 pm: Edit

Well, my sense is that a "lazy history" is going to hurt in admissions. How much? depends on what else you've got. Your test scores alone won't make up for it, because they will have plenty of applicants will the same scores but better HS records. I don't really know how to compare your system to the standard US system, but I guess the key thing would be to demonstrate that your performance was in the top 10% of your peers.

By Stuff on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 03:31 pm: Edit

Okie dokie.

Thanks for the input. I know that I can do it if I put my nose to the grindstone.

By rfgrggr on Saturday, October 12, 2002 - 05:54 pm: Edit

1. Lots of people in my school (not me)hate canadiens
2. 1600 alone won't get you into Ivy

By Cclions (Cclions) on Saturday, October 12, 2002 - 06:48 pm: Edit

Stuff,
Sounds to me like you have a good chance of getting into Dartmouth or any other school you apply to. Keep in mind that you need three (3) SAT II Subject Tests in addition to your SAT I or ACT. The most important part of any application is the entrance essay(s). Schools like Dartmouth want to know who you are, what makes you tick and how you might be able to contribute to the college community. Nothing is black and white in college admissions and there are never certainties. Canadians also have a long history of attendance in the Ivy League. Yale University is the American University that has graduated the most Canadians. Canadian's have a long, strong traditions in athletics and academics in our Ivy League universities.
If you truly are the intellectual you claim to be, I would suggest applying to Yale and Columbia in addition to Dartmouth. The fact that you’ve run your business shows that you’re a leader not some snot nose brat working/volunteering just for their college application. Dartmouth is a good choice but I think that you’re under-estimating yourself and over-estimating Dartmouth’s selectivity.

Also, have you considered McGill University "Canada's Harvard". Your GPA probably doesn’t help because McGill admissions is tough but McGill's reputation is at par with Columbia, Yale or Stanford depending on the area of study, in certain cases Harvard and Princeton at the graduate level, I.E. Medicine. Why settle for Dartmouth when you can go to a university with far more prestige like McGill. I have great respect for the more prestigious Canadian Universities such as McGill, Queens or Waterloo (The Canadian equivalent to MIT or Caltech for those who are unfamiliar).

By Cclions (Cclions) on Saturday, October 12, 2002 - 07:01 pm: Edit

Rhonda,
I would have to disagree with your point about "most colleges saying that the HS transcript is the single most important factor in admissions". Most colleges, at least the Ivies say the complete opposite. Do your homework and you’ll see that most admissions people will point out that the essay is the most important part of the admission. The essay is what differentiates the thousands of test taking drones, all of whom meet the minimum requirements from unique, diverse leaders. Ivies have to, in a sense, choose between "Spiderman and Batman" for admission. It is common knowledge that the essay holds more weight then standardized tests and overall academic average. I beat our students with better averages and higher standardized test scores. The Ivies are hoers for diversity and most are sick of students who have nothing special about them. Students who volunteer for the sake of their application. Students who basically don’t have minds of their own and who tell the admissions people what they think they want to hear as opposed to having truly unique points of view.

By daniel on Monday, October 14, 2002 - 04:43 am: Edit

i agree with cclions here. university of toronto is canada's harvard and mcgill is canada's yale. both are fine schools.

By Cclions (Cclions) on Monday, October 14, 2002 - 08:15 pm: Edit

daniel,
On the graduate level and as a research Institution Toronto is stronger then McGill, with regard to undergraduate studies McGill and Queens have Canada's #1 undergraduate schools, in addition to being by far the most selective universities in Canada. Toronto is an enormous university, in fact the largest university in Canada and it has many different undergraduate colleges. McGill and Queens are far more selective then Toronto at the undergraduate level. University of Toronto is one of the best universities in Canada, but a McGill it is not.

By Cclions (Cclions) on Monday, October 14, 2002 - 08:28 pm: Edit

I think you'll find that McGill is Canada's Harvard, Queens is Canada's Princeton and Toronto is Canada's Yale with Waterloo (MIT North) internationally at par with MIT or Caltech.

The " Canadian Ivy League" is McGill, Queens, Toronto, UBC and Dalhousie as listed in McLeans.

It all in the long run depends on the subject of study. The Richard Ivey School of Business at the University of Western Ontario's faculty was ranked in the top 10 globally, in the same company as faculty from Harvard, Columbia and Wharton. Ivey's custom programs were also singled out for their quality and are now ranked with the top 20 programs worldwide. Earlier, Ivey placed 18th worldwide in the Financial Times' comprehensive survey ranking the world's best 100 full-time MBA programs and 15th worldwide for its Executive MBA Programs. Overall it made the top 10 with Wharton (#1), Columbia, and Harvard.

By daniel on Monday, October 14, 2002 - 08:59 pm: Edit

first, let me open by saying that no technical school out there is on par with mit and caltech. they are in a class by themselves. all others fall into tiers below. even KAIST, the consensus conceded #1 tech school in all of asia is no match for mit. imagine that! in a region with over a billion people, the top school cannot hold a light to mit. waterloo is a fine school but a mit it is not.

perhaps its just my obsession with people being well rounded but if we're talking about the best students in the world overall...i must tip my hat to those cadets at the united states military academy at west point. these cadets are extremely bright and churn out rhodes scholars on pace with harvard! they all graduate with an engineering degree but are capable of entering any field including medicine, business and law. aside from their academics, they can drive tanks, jump out of airplanes and lead assault teams. they have a sense of duty and protect the freedoms in which we take for granted every day.

when mckinsey was hiring for executive managers...most qualified students often tell of their tales at harvard or mit. they further have stories about impressive feats in the work place. but a west point graduate can simply wear the medals on his chest and say that he has defended his country to the best of his ability against all enemies and has fought bravely so that other men will do the same.

bright men with honor, character and leadership is what west point is all about. i know some people think rotc is the equivalent, but believe me, you are not a knight. you are not a ringknocker.

although my alma mater is in ivy covered walls, i encourage all those out there that want to be more than a harvard, yale, princeton...please consider west point.

By Cclions (Cclions) on Monday, October 14, 2002 - 09:54 pm: Edit

They say the two most selective schools in the world are the US Coast Guard Academy and the Julliard School in New York. West Point is great of you don't mind doing military time.

By Dumbuket (Dumbuket) on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 09:27 pm: Edit

I thought the most selective school on the planet was "Deep Springs"... if anyone here's gotten the brochures before, they know what I'm talking about. 26 guys, all alone, in the desert. And no one's allowed to leave. Kind of homoerotic, if you ask me. I'll bet this is going to get snipped by the administrative goons.

By Ivyleaguer (Ivyleaguer) on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 02:42 pm: Edit

Toronto is definitely the Harvard of Canada. Whatever that means. Isn't Princeton number one these days! Toronto has the largest endowment, more extensive research, attracts top rate scholars. As Llyod Robertson CTV said on National Television in 2001 U of T is the top University in Canada. Mcgill up to 2003 has ranked at number 4 (now #3). Read the Maclean rankings for the last eight years! Only reason Mcgill is more selective is because it is smaller than U of T.selective doesn't mean better. Columbia accepts fewer students than Yale for example. U of T received far more applications for the 2003-04 year. U of T received 42, 000 applications, compared to 23000 for Mcgill. More students prefer U of T. Queen's is the most selective of the three because it the smallest. It has an acceptance rate for 2003- 2004 year of 9%. Actually, Mcgill calls itself the Harvard of the North, U of T calls itself the Harvard of Canada and Queens calls Harvard the Queens of the south. So anyone can call themselves what they want. The Rankings speak for themselves. Mcgill is not on top! Of the trinity, Queens U of T and Mcgill, Mcgill right now is the weak link.