Click here to go to the NEW College Discussion Forum

My kid is a freshman in college now. During the three years prior to his starting college, I was very active in boards such as College Confidential. I am just stopping back to see how things are here. Some top of the head observations.

1. The discussions in College Confidential are so civilized (compared to some of the other boards). I am very glad to see this.

2. Seeing the threads on rejection and emotional intensity brings back a lot of memories, some of them rather unpleasant.

3. I got a kick out of Dadster's comment "Roger: quis custodiet ipsos custodes?". [I first saw this quote in something B.F.Skinner wrote, defending Walden Two perhaps. This adds for me the sentimental value of this quote.]

4. As a software engineer in this economy, I am beginning to feel like the member of an endangered species. Anybody know of a civilized online board I can go to?

amd

By Proudtobemom (Proudtobemom) on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 - 10:52 am: Edit

Hang around here, Amd, while you keep looking for another civilized board (remember Diogenes?). I bet you have some input to offer other parents now that you're looking at this all from the other side.

I also have a college kid (sophomore) and our youngest has just made his college decision this week (chose the real different option out of the eight he was accepted to). But are we ever really finished???

By Hautbois (Hautbois) on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 - 12:06 pm: Edit

Yes, this is a most civilized board! I'd been on one other that shall go unmentioned and had to leave due to rudeness and crudeness, as well as incredibly snobbiness (sp?) on the part of the students.

Amd and Ptbm: I'd love to hear your stories regarding kid #1 (do we know kid #2's story, Ptbm? My lightbulb is off right now ... so off I first spelled "lightbuld" instead!).

As a musician I am on the endangered species as well, Amd. Maybe we just need a list for all of us?

(Btw, all, my d is so excited about the Latin program at UCI now that we've ordered the book for her first class already. She also might make another visit downt there to speak to the professor who has been emailing her, as well as sit in on her class (or at least someone's class) in Latin.)

By Autodidact (Autodidact) on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 - 01:22 pm: Edit

amd, ptbm, hb: Diogenes at least had the advantage of searching among people who predominantly were what they claimed or appeared to be. The whole employment outlook and our socio-economic culture has changed so much in just the last half century that it is difficult to determine what is, what will be, and what could be career opportunities. Particularly when you factor in changing ideals as to what is a "good" job, the relative value of job security, and pension or retirement options, and their portability. Loyalty is no longer valued as it once was, and the worker reared on the notion can find himself abandoned and adrift in turbulent waters--to say nothing of the corporate sharks devouring the stability of companies, retirement accounts, and misplaced faith in "leaders" and vested interests. Too few of the former and too many of the latter with self-service their only mission. So long as there is turmoil and torment there will be a need and hunger for the arts to soothe,suspend, or sustain the shattered soul, a yearn to return to simpler or at least logical times as in the classics, and if a software engineer is open to adaptations, alterations, and updates and rigidly bonded to a dedication to technological advancement and superiority an opportunity to meld the best of the old to develop the best as yet to come. Keep up the efforts and remember that life is best lived one day at a time.

By Amd (Amd) on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 - 01:28 pm: Edit

Kid #1 was valedictorian and National Merit Finalist. Interested in liberal arts.

Applied to: Indiana, Grinnell, Kalamazoo, Carleton, Chicago, Rice, and Florida. He and I arrived at these together over a period of many months constantly adding and dropping names. I had money firmly in mind all the time. Specific reasons:

Indiana: Our state school. More than safety. My position always was that a college has to be clearly better than IU for us/him to pass up IU.

Kalamazoo, Grinnell: Result of reading Pope books. While I think that both of these are fine schools, I don't know how much hype there is in these books or how much of the Ivy bashing to belive in.

Chicago: Son liked during the visit. May have liked the prestige. Big city may have been a factor too.

Rice: I liked it for the price/prestige/reputation combination.

Carleton: I mistakenly assumed that they would provide merit aid (say 50% of the cost).

Florida: Last minute addition (for the full ride given to National Merit Semi-finalists). I wanted to preserve this option until April.

Got into all but Rice where he was waitlisted until April - we asked to be taken off the waitlist. Essay was not that good. Didn't visit. I was surprised by the rejection.

Son wrote a terrific essay to Chicago. Got no aid. Turned down for this reason.

Son visited Grinnell by himself. Found it too radical. I never really understood the reasons why he didn't want to go there. He got decent merit aid. Distance may have been a factor too. (I guessed that he might end up at Grinnell.)

Son turned down Kalamazoo. Nothing to recommend it over the other choices. It was hard for me to turn them down.

Never visited Florida. Son visited Grinnell and Carleton during April. Didn't have time for Florida.

So it was between Carleton and Indiana. Both of us visited Carleton. Both of us loved it. I thought that he was going to go there. Son was always saying that if his best friend from high school went to IU, he would go there. (Friend was considering NYU etc.) On the 10 hour return trip from Carleton, the distance factor was beginning to hit him. The cost factor was bothering me. However, I felt that Carleton was worth it.

Friend decided to go to IU. Son decided likewise. (There was another very big factor too, influencing this decision. I would rather not go into that.)

Son's happy with his choice. While he thought he would prefer a smaller college, the size of IU turns out to be one of the positives. (Go figure.)

Hope this story is useful to somebody.

By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 - 01:37 pm: Edit

Thank you so much for sharing your son's story. My daughter is just entering her sophomore year of high school and I'm just starting to dip my toes into this whole process. I love hearing stories from other parents that remind me that, in the end, it won't be MY decision to make - it will be my daughter's --- and that there are bound to be some surprises along the way.

Carolyn

By Amd (Amd) on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 - 01:43 pm: Edit

Carolyn: I am glad you found my posting useful. Kid #2 is finishing up freshman year in high school. I feel very little pressure regarding <i>his</i> college process. Feel like an old pro really.

By Hautbois (Hautbois) on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 - 04:29 pm: Edit

Amd: your post was good for me to read as well. Everyone has a story (or stories) and each one helps me get a better idea of this wacky process.

We already had a son at UCLA when our daughter began this process this year, but believe me things were different with her! As I had already written to this great gang here, our son didn't get fab grades but had fine SATs ... but he got into UCLA on his design portfolio while our daughter who has great grades and SATs (perfect verbal) didn't get in to a number of colleges she applied to ... it was all very frustrating but has turned out great for her in the end, or at least that's how it looks.

Anyway, I love reading everyone's stories!

By Amd (Amd) on Thursday, April 24, 2003 - 08:33 am: Edit

I wrote that son "applied to: Indiana, Grinnell, Kalamazoo, Carleton, Chicago, Rice, and Florida". (How to I italicize?) I used to mention our list in my previous (large number of) posts. Almost always, the reaction I would get is: "These are very different types of colleges". The implication was that better homework would have resulted in a better list (with some decisions already made). Obviously, I am not smart enough to come up with a better list. All I can say is that it made sense to us and I wanted to preserve options until April. (By the way, we came back from Carleton on 4/24/02. It snowed on the way up there.) Whether he would get merit aid from Chicago/Rice was an unknown - we had no clue on what to expect. As it turned out, he didn't get any merit aid from Chicago and was waitlisted at Rice. Merit aid from these might have changed the decision. At Grinnell, Kalamazoo, and Florida we got (more or less) the amount of aid we expected. I am grateful to them for helping us guess accurately. I would have been happy if he went to any of these.

With my next kid, I am going to push only Purdue and IU. If he wants to add any more to the list, of course he can.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Thursday, April 24, 2003 - 11:22 am: Edit

Amd, thanks for coming and sharing the epilogues.
I look at the coming year and say "Aieeee!"

I'm sure in retrospect it will look a bit overblown.

Italicize as follows: text

By Theasrhs (Theasrhs) on Thursday, April 24, 2003 - 12:53 pm: Edit

I'll add our story to the mix.

My daughter started thinking about colleges at the end of her sophomore year. This was relatively early for her crowd (but not for this one!) We bought a bunch of college selection books, including the Princeton Review 345 Best Colleges, the Fiske Guide, Barrons, and the US News College rankings issue. At that point, she was still considering whether to pursue the conservatory route. So it was a strange mix: NYU was on the radar, as was Columbia and Manhattan School of Music. We visited NYC during our points-east trip, b/t her sophomore and junior year, and stopped by Columbia, Barnard, and MSM. I hated NYU. Daughter loved NYC.

Then we went to a performing arts college fair the fall of her junior year. We brought along a friend, who then became *very* interested in Oberlin. Daughter talked to Eastman, New England Conservatory, Oberlin, MSM. Then decided she did *not* want to go the conservatory route. In addition to lotsa music (voice and clarinet), she also has a strong interest in creative writing and English Literature.

So: next college fair did not produce much. I really liked Warren Wilson because I thought it offered magnificent grounding opportunities (D is not what you'd call real grounded.) D hated WW (she yearns towards sophistication.) D really, really, really wanted to go to the Northeast, and would *only* consider the two coasts, and would not consider any places too far north, either.

No chance for Oberlin and a host of other wonderful colleges.

After a ton of research, the working list became: Boston University, Sarah Lawrence, NYU, Vassar, Bennington, Brown University, Tulane University, Lewis & Clark College, Pitzer College, UCLA, University of Colorado at Boulder, Reed.

Spring break visit, junior year: UCLA - out! Too big!! Pitzer - loved it. Felt like home. I made her visit UCSB. Out! Classes too big!!

Summer visits: Reed - nope. Interesting place, but nope. Lewis & Clark - definite place on the list.

Senior year, last fall: I nixed Tulane. Somehow, the U of C dropped off the list. I insisted she apply to the UC's - she would only acquiesce to UCSC. They are the only UC to offer a BM, and the setting is, of course, spectacular. She remained unimpressed even after visiting, however. Too close to home, too prosaic, too laid back (or so she thought and thinks.) I talked her out of NYU.

November visit: Given her performance schedule, we could only take three days off school. I refused to visit 5 schools in 5 days since I thought she would do a disservice to all of them. Sarah Lawrence had become her first choice, so our visit was primarily to visit there. I worked in a Bennington visit mostly for me. I wanted a break. This was with the understanding that, if she was accepted to Brown (she still wanted to apply there), we would visit in the spring.

She totally loved SLC. She also really liked Bennington. Vassar was slowly dropping off the list when she realized she would have to take another year of math and of a lab science to be honestly competitive there (which she could have done through the junior college, the place she had already taken at least 50% of her academic classes.) She hates math, and is none too fond of lab sciences.

Pitzer dropped off the list after she heard from several, diverse sources that the reputation was staying stoned a lot. The issue here would be her own ability to stay focused in such an environment.

Now here's the sad part: after SLC gave us wrong information about financial aid and NCP contribution, I supported D in applying ED II, and dropping applications to Boston University and Vassar. SLC cares very little about 4 years of math or 3 years of a lab science. Once she decided on ED II, she stopped researching any other colleges as well, felt better about my opposition to Tulane, and felt relaxed about letting go of Pitzer.

Final list: SLC, Bennington, Lewis & Clark, Brown, UCSC. She loved the "thirds" system at Sarah Lawrence, the donning system -- and the proximity to NYC. Bennington was a place she could self-express to her heart's content, but she was a little worried about the rural location and small size. She was a little worried about the level of academic rigor at L & C. She considered UCSC a total safety. Brown was a real long shot.

Her weighted GPA is 4.0. I don't know what her unweighted is. Her SAT I was 1420 - 680 math, 740 verbal. SAT II's: literature, 740; writing, 740; math IC, 600. She ranked 33 out of 545 in her class. And then all that music stuff and tons of other EC's. Lots of travel.

She was accepted to SLC ED II. They offered a paltry sum (story told elsewhere in this forum.) She was also accepted to Bennington, L & C, and UCSC. Bennington and L & C made really great financial aid offers. Bennington is in competition with SL, and definitely tries harder.

It was incredibly difficult for my D to let go of SLC - she was quite distraught for several weeks. Not getting accepted at Brown (she had a great alumni interview, but she did remain a long shot, of course) meant even fewer options, somehow, so she briefly flirted with taking a year off. When I made it clear she could only take a year off if she had a real plan, she dropped that idea.

Finally, she decided Bennington was too remote and too small. We just got back from the second, overnight visit to Lewis & Clark. Portland is a great city, she met many kids who are - gasp! - a lot like her! She's particularly excited about the Study Abroad program. Her student host was in the middle of preparations for her trip to Cuba next fall, so D got to see what it takes at L & C: language fluency and detailed background cultural, economic, and social study. She's decided on L & C, and sent in the acceptance this week. UCSC is off the table. I haven't totally let go of it, though.

She will not be as challenged academically as she would be at SLC. It will be much more up to her to seek her own challenges and development -- and to seek out faculty support for doing so. I was encouraged by the accessibility of the faculty, however: 3 music professors came up to us while we were in the music building, the associate dean approached D at the "coffee hour", and the Arts and Humanities dean came up to us during that same hour. Lots of the "prospies" had considered many of the same schools my D had - though Occidental is one that never came up on her list. D regretted not exploring the U of O honors program (and mom got the bittersweet chance to say, "I told you so" - we drove by last summer because she refused to look - she got countless phone calls that she refused to return - she was being recruited. Oh well.)

Basically, I am happy with her choice. I felt SLC was somehow neurotic, and would negatively support that tendency in my D. L & C is much more traditional than Bennington, which I have mixed feelings about, but will probably translate to more easily transferring if that's what she wants to do, and more easily supporting graduate school applications, if that's what she wants in the future. Tenure and tenure-track faculty are 98% PhD's, with many of them from places like Columbia and Stanford. I don't know that they are particularly outstanding in any specific academic area, but we both very much like their social justice and environmental focus, decent music department, Study Abroad program, foreign language requirement, and Outdoor Program.

They also seem to have plenty of money, and are not tight with it. The residence halls are quite nice, the food is great, and they provide free shuttle service to an amazing number of places.

Biggest regret? Not fully understanding how need-based aid works in the noncustodial parent setting, and not conscienciously including schools that guarantee to meet all need and provide merit aid. It probably would have forced D to expand her search, and include colleges beyond her limited geographic area.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Thursday, April 24, 2003 - 01:53 pm: Edit

My favorite line: "I felt SLC was somehow neurotic...." Fits with what a Ph.D. friend who taught there for year. Also, one of D's friends has been accepted there and *she* is pretty neurotic...talk about finding your fit.

As for geography, mine has a similar profile. Moreover, she has flat out vetoed going to school in any state that voted for Bush. I think this is a bit narrow myself, as it takes Duke, Emory, Rice, Tulane, and a few other interesting schools off the table. But she's used to being a moderate kid in a very liberal environment and doesn't want to be the flaming liberal in a conservative environment...the fact that the college campuses are likely to be much more liberal than the surrounding locale notwithstanding. Shrug. It's her decision and there are enough good schools that meet her parameters so I won't argue.

By Choff (Choff) on Thursday, April 24, 2003 - 05:15 pm: Edit

How interesting to read other parent's stories. I'll add mine, for what it's worth. No. 1 son is currently finishing his freshman year at Purdue. A year ago that's all he wanted. He's a computer geek (self-proclaimed) who really hadn't bothered looking at colleges, or thinking much about it until just before his junior year when I took him and his brother back to Indiana (my home state) and we visited Purdue. My husband and I are die hard alumni and so, as a result, he was sick of hearing about the place growing up and didn't want a thing to do with it. I insisted we visit, I hadn't been on campus in 20 years, and I told him if nothing else, consider it a "data point" for computer science and engineering since it was one of the best programs in the country (no bias here, right?). He had never been on a college campus before, and suddenly thought it was great. Come senior year is was the only place he applied. With rolling admissions, he knew by mid September that he was in. Wouldn't consider applying anywhere else. As a high school student, he didn't apply himself, other than the tech courses. Final GPA was 3.2 and SAT's were 1210, I think. But he got his MCP, A+, and CCNA certifications through his academy network admin. and design courses in his senior year of high school. He wanted Purdue because he wanted CS, and knew with two legacy parents, he could get in. Fast forward to this year. He hates it. We live in Virginia. He never took into account that distance, culture, location were important. He's an Eastern suburbia kid who hates corn fields. He also discovered that he didn't want to program 8 hours a day (too ADD for that) but instead really wants to get into the technology end of computers instead. As a result, he's now transferring back here to Virginia to George Mason Univ. to their BS in Information Technology program, and already knows that he'll get credits for his certifications he got in high school. He's taking courses there this summer, to include Information Warfare, and is happier than ever with this prospect. He will even now admit that he should have listened to us (shock of shocks!) and that location and "culture" of a campus are important.

No. 2 son is now a sophomore in high school. We've already started looking at colleges because I have told him in no uncertain terms that he is not repeating what big brother did! He's totally different, into liberal arts and wants to go into political science to go to law school. He thinks he wants to go to William & Mary, but needs to get the GPA up to have a chance at it. We visited William & Mary over spring break, as well as Mary Washington, partly to start looking, but also part to make him realize now what they are looking for in grades, so hopefully he'll get a little more focused on his studies (again ADD and disorganization are playing into this). Where he'll end up, who knows, but I do think at least he's looking at the whole picture and is starting to narrow down what he likes/doesn't like.

Sorry this is so long, but wanted to tell that even the kids that are bull headed and impulsive, do eventually work out something!

By Mike (Mike) on Thursday, April 24, 2003 - 07:48 pm: Edit

Thedad: Your daughter is in the opposite situation from me. My HS is very Very conservative with many kids opposed to the word evolution being used. Lucky the Science Dept. teachers are great. My school is about 70% Republican and about 20% Democrat I don't want an extreme Liberal school because I would hate to be the far right.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Thursday, April 24, 2003 - 08:19 pm: Edit

Mike, the differences are what makes the world go around. I'm torn: I respect the notion of comfort zones but also think that people need to be stretched. Back when I was much more in the corporate world, I played the opposite position of my daughter: the anti-corporate iconoclast playing (in corporate terms) the left wing. I find it uproariously karmically funny that in Santa Monica, I *am* a relative conservative...here, being a Democrat makes you suspect...Green is more comforting to a lot of people.

By Amd (Amd) on Thursday, April 24, 2003 - 10:02 pm: Edit

A couple of more thoughts.

1. During the later stages of the process, my son talked about taking a year off. This scared me more than anything else. What if he never went to college?

2. My son's on campus interview at Chicago did not go well - his interviewer was a fresh graduate who worked in the admissions office; she had close to zero skills at putting a candidate at ease. (In spite of this he got in.) When we came back home, I wanted to write about that, to the other (often nastier) board (but with greater traffic). (I tried to get some of the regulars there to shift to here. I see at least one here.) I was also quite paranoid that their admission officers might be reading these boards and hurt his chances. So, I described the situation without mentioning the college by name - for further protection, son became a daughter in that post. When my son read that post, he laughed hard and told his friend (and current roommmate) that his dad had gone off the deep end. These are memories that only I and my son (and his roommate) will share ;-)

By 1tcm (1tcm) on Thursday, April 24, 2003 - 11:42 pm: Edit

I'm here from that other board as well. Different name however. I've been here for about a year though rarely posting. Over there I'm probably considered a regular. I've had the opinion that this board has more concrete information, (definetly alot less bull to wade through), but feel that some good has come from both boards. I think alot of the problem over there stems from the lack of good moderation, which this board seems to have. I've come to appreciate what all of us parents have gone through, are going through, or will go through. This last few months have been quite trying to say the least.....

By Anngold (Anngold) on Friday, April 25, 2003 - 12:49 am: Edit

Choff - Would you mind sharing your impressions from your visit to Mary Washington? It's on my daughter's list and living in Oregon, I'm not sure if we'll get to visit before next spring. She'll be a senior this fall. Of course, if you have good things to say, I would try harder to get her on the campus sooner rather then later. Thanks.

By Mike (Mike) on Friday, April 25, 2003 - 12:12 pm: Edit

Is Mary Washington targeting Oregon or the PNW? My Son has gotten several mailings from them.

Mike's Dad

By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Friday, April 25, 2003 - 02:09 pm: Edit

Theasrhs - Thanks for sharing your story - especially as Lewis and Clark is one PNW college that seems particularly hard to get a "feel" for - I've heard very good things about their academics from friends who teach at other PNW colleges yet keep hearing comments from prospective students worrying about the level of academics there.

Someone mentioned Mary Washington and that brought back fond memories for me. That was my first choice school many years ago. I wanted to go there so badly --- but, unfortunately, family finances ended up dictating and I went to a SUNY college for two years before transferring to Syracuse. I always wonder what my life would have been like if I had gone to Mary Washington.

And, again, thanks to everyone for sharing all of these stories - great reading!

Carolyn

By Choff (Choff) on Friday, April 25, 2003 - 05:14 pm: Edit

Choff - Would you mind sharing your impressions from your visit to Mary Washington? It's on my daughter's list and living in Oregon, I'm not sure if we'll get to visit before next spring.
---------------------------------

We liked it. It is a very pretty campus, small, but very, very pretty. It's all Colonial style, all red brick buildings with brick walkways, and some even covered between the buildings. The day we went was cold and drizzily, but the plants were all in bloom and if it was 20 degrees warmer it would have been beautiful. The residence halls seemed to be a nice size, some are set up as learning communities for certain majors. The school just bought a set of apartments across the street for their juniors and seniors. The school apparently has a very good solid reputation. A friend of mine's son is there, having transferred from Va Tech which was too big for him. They love it. She said the classes are hard, as there are no minors so every class is a major course. Given the weather, and that my son is only a sophomore, we didn't spend a lot of time walking around or talking to students. We did eat on campus and that passed the "test" for him. If she's really interested, and you can make it to the East coast, I would check it out. At this stage, my son still likes W & M more, but who knows in two years.

Oh, one more thing, the town it's in, Fredericksburg, is charming. It's a small southern type town with the old fashion downtown area now with boutiques and bistros. It's a nice location, about 50 miles south of DC and 50 miles north of Richmond, VA, the capitol. There's commuter train service from Fredericksburg to DC, as our admissions person told of one girl who did an internship at the Smithsonian, hopping the train with the commuters on the days she worked.

By Sluggbugg (Sluggbugg) on Friday, April 25, 2003 - 05:58 pm: Edit

Amd, thanks for sharing your story. It sounds as gut-wrenching as our horrendous journey this past year! Our dd was also heavily influenced by the "friend factor."

We had nervous breakdowns every other day for eight or so months because it sure looked like our dd's college pick was going to be decided by her b/f's father! He's a perfectly nice man (not really), but this dad ruled over the son's apps. Every time this kid would add another Ivy or "Little" Ivy (as a fifth generation Nevadan, I had never heard of Little Ivies until this year) to his list, our dd would scramble to find a backup that would put her in the same vicinity.

After all those years of leading that freakin' Girl Scout troop on campouts in the freakin' cold rain, eating freakin' half-baked doughboys, and fighting off raccoons and cougars, in order to instill independence and self-confidence in our daughter, I GET THIS?! We could not believe it.

All we could do was make sure that she had a realistic safety list, with colleges we knew she'd actually want to attend that were also affordable. Try coercing an 18-year old into doing anything that even remotely agrees with what her parents think is a good decision. We knew that if we came out too strongly against this b/f, we'd lose whatever influence we had on her.

We writhed around with this situation until the first week in April, when the Ivies and Little Ivies released their acceptances. This poor guy got shot down left and right. To make things worse, he got his wisdom teeth extracted that same week. Even we felt sorry for him.

Our dd, however, got accepted to all of the colleges on her list, except two biggees back East that were her stretches (MIT & Brown), and one up in Washington that she had taken off the table after applying because it was too small. Three of her acceptances came with merit scholarships, so while we were happily celebrating in our house, the b/f was getting hammered by the unreachable schools picked by his father.

As it turned out, he got accepted by all of the UC's he applied to as his safeties. We would not have predicted it, but the one he really wants to attend is the same one our dd started out with as her first choice way back before we all went nuts!

Long before she even met this guy, our dd wanted to attend UC Santa Cruz. After she got her acceptances, she made her final decision based on all of the other things we had been begging her to consider all year. The whole situation flipped, and in the end, it was she who had the better selection of schools to choose from. After strategizing all year long to follow her b/f, it is HE who is following HER.

And, that's where they're both going next September 20th as soon as we can slow the car down long enough to kick them both out!

Btw Theasrhs, our dd was also accepted at Lewis & Clark. Great school, and I think your dd's going to love it there! My dh got all verklemped (sp?) when he was organizing our dd's non-acceptance forms. He really liked L&C! :::sniff::: On the other hand, I called the Salvation Army this week to pick up another load of baby clothes.

By Jenniferpa (Jenniferpa) on Friday, April 25, 2003 - 07:14 pm: Edit

Oh my goodness, Sluggbuug, this made me laugh out loud! Mind you, the humor is bittersweet, because we're potentially in the same position. At least my DD's B/F is leaving for Penn State this fall, and DD currently thinks that that Penn State is the pits! Unfortunately, if she did decide to go, it's so reasonable she could probably afford it without parental funds, which makes stopping it problematic, and she has a year to change her mind. I guess I'll just have to keep hammering on about how LARGE it is.

Boy, can I relate to the Girl Scout bit - that brought back memories (not good ones). I'll definitely make sure to throw that up in her face should I need too. It will not do any good, but it'll give me a certain level of satisfaction.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Friday, April 25, 2003 - 07:33 pm: Edit

Whew. Ballet saved me from all the girl scout stuff. Or save themom. Nope, that wasn't happening either.

But, SluggyB: LOL!

I feel fortunate that there is no boy on the horizon that would sway where thedaughter goes to school.

By Autodidact (Autodidact) on Friday, April 25, 2003 - 10:46 pm: Edit

Theasrhs,Sluggbugg, amd, Choff: Thanks for sharing your stories. I envy the people on this board who have schools which allow their students time to visit colleges for help in making these important decisions; ours allow only 3 days--and when you're in the middle of everywhere and nowhere (Midwest), that's mostly eaten up by travel time.
Sluggbugg: You forgot the joys of managing the cookie drive--or maybe you saved yourself from too much joy! (Just one year--PLEASE! should have been my warning not to accept this task. Hiding the phone book from my overenthusiastic 7 year-old should have been my first order of business. She started alphabetically, and had worked her way through the D's before we were notified she was too young to go to camp alone (per HQ--she had other ideas) after two phone calls to verify her eligibility. My two kids sold 45% of all of their troups cookies that year--our LAST when the leader coerced/bullied/cajoled the troup into voting to use the proceeds to allow "underprivileged"--how ironic--scouts to go to camp. Mine voted as a block to sponsor an animal at the zoo--somewhere they could both go, neither went to camp, and the credit doesn't carry forward after third grade. I am certain I spent more money on gas to deliver them to all of the rural homes who were thrilled to buy, since no one EVER called them than the troop got at $.25 per box. Ah, the price of character building! Our last adventure with scouting was Boy Scouts--Venturers Coed Pack, but nixed continued participation when we discovered the local's main interest was in dating/overnight camping among the troop, in which we'd no interest in her participating. Be cautious about giving away all of those baby clothes (or maternity clothes until after the change), I have two sisters-in-law and one niece who found out they were expecting within two months of donating outgrown, unneeded toddler items and garage sales "to get rid of all that baby junk." All were using contraceptives, had had tubes tied, or had spouses who had had vasectomies! We had a full house of "whoopsie babies" at Christmas, and there was much discussion as to new doctors and the reliability of procedures!
Jenniferpa: Maybe the distance when the BF goes off to school will eliminate your problems. Here's hoping.

By Amd (Amd) on Friday, April 25, 2003 - 11:04 pm: Edit

Autodidact,

We also faced the problem of not having enough days to visit colleges - that's one reason why we couldn't visit Florida and Rice, and visited Grinnell and Carleton at the last minute. During several 3 day weekends I called Grinnell and Carleton hopefully only to find that they were off too.

amd

By Autodidact (Autodidact) on Friday, April 25, 2003 - 11:53 pm: Edit

Amd: We, too, have found when we have time, they don't have classes, which would totally defeat the purpose as far as we're concerned. By the time AP exams are over, so will be most classes. Summer is just not the same, and has a greater chance of having associate profs or outside teachers. Carleton seems interesting-great website related to NMF, might be a good match for my younger if she wasn't looking for a warmer climate. Grinnell was way too liberal for my conservative, non-potsmoking daughter when she visited--as I had expected, but one of her teachers is an alumni. Campus Republicans were pointed out to her--all five of them! She would have been just an hour away from her grandparents and numerous cousins, super convenient for the weekends and holidays, but her outspokeness would have made her time there a misery. Job possibilities would have been low end of the pay scale, though, and the campus/town relationship is not great. No disappointment in not getting admitted, she was actually concerned that if she won the Bowen, she'd have to go there. No amount of money would have made it a good fit for her!

By Farawayplaces (Farawayplaces) on Saturday, April 26, 2003 - 12:59 am: Edit

A couple of observations. I've noticed throughout kid #2's college decision making how a college can present a certain "face" to a student on his visit that unfortunately these young kids come to believe is the college's "real" face. Our son is turning down Princeton because he visited as an athlete and found other team members to be on the lazy side academically--hence, Princeton is for "slackers"! I'm prompted to reply to the above post because of the comments regarding Grinnell. My daughter is a recent graduate. It certainly is a liberal school, and probably would be uncomfortable for a conservative. Potsmoking? Guess there's some. There's no loud frat beer parties, though. My daughter and her friends never tried pot, nor felt they should. Last year's Rhodes Scholar didn't smoke dope, either. Most kids are mighty serious students. I doubt that most kids there smoke pot, and I think that your daughter saw a "face" on her visit that she's decided is the school's only one! (Sorry, I'm a little defensive about our daughter's beloved school!)

By Thedad (Thedad) on Saturday, April 26, 2003 - 12:59 am: Edit

Dang it. Sorry, amd. I just went back and realized that my demonstration of how to italicize text looked like a smart-ass remark...that by showing, I did it, and how I did it disappeared.

Try this again.

Type a \i

Follow immediately by a {

Follow immediately by text you wish to italicize

End with a }

By Calmom (Calmom) on Saturday, April 26, 2003 - 04:11 am: Edit

Thedad -

Regarding your post about your daughter not wanting any state that voted for Bush, it brought back memories for me. My son felt the same way, and was deciding on colleges in the fall of 2000, and both Reed & L&C were on his list. But remember how long the Oregon vote-counting dragged on??? We were watching the map on the news each day, as my son couldn't send in his apps until the state finally fell into the blue column.

To Theasrhs:

If it's any consolation at all, we had direct experience with Pitzer and the NCP situation, and Pitzer's financial aid offer was terrible. The worst, and weakest, offer of any college that purported to give us need-based aid. It was so weak that at first I thought that they must have been assuming that we would get it supplemented with a Cal Grant, but when I read over the paperwork to be sure, I realized that they had included the anticipated Cal Grant as part of their award statement. So basically, they were expecting Daddy to pick up a much bigger chunk than any other college was looking for.

L&C is a great choice, though -- beautiful campus. They also offered my son great financial aid, both merit + need, and though he chose SLC instead, one of the top students from his high school went to L&C and reportedly is doing very well there.

By Medusa2003 (Medusa2003) on Saturday, April 26, 2003 - 09:36 am: Edit

We have a daughter who will be a freshman at Grinnell next year. She is a non-drinking, non-potsmoking, behaviorally conservative but open-minded student who really felt at home at Grinnell during her two visits. She visited the University of Arizona on a National Merit visiting day and absolutely hated it. Too much drinking and no evidence of intellectual interests among the "honor" students.

By Anngold (Anngold) on Saturday, April 26, 2003 - 09:41 am: Edit

Choff - Thanks so much for the additional information on Mary Washington. It sounds lovely. I think we will try to get there in the fall. Good luck with your son's college hunting.

By Kelly_Johnson (Kelly_Johnson) on Saturday, April 26, 2003 - 09:42 am: Edit

Thearhs: How did your daughter say no to SLC if she was accepted EDII?

By Amd (Amd) on Saturday, April 26, 2003 - 09:45 am: Edit

Thanks, Thedad

Is this standard HTML?

By Amd (Amd) on Saturday, April 26, 2003 - 09:54 am: Edit

When my son visited Grinnell, it was #1 on our list. (I expected him to come back and say 'This is the one'.) To this day, I don't understand the reasons why he decided against Grinnell, though he and I have talked about it several times. It may well be the 10 hour distance and the traveling alone. (Because of a storm, his flight was diverted to an airport 70 miles away. The adcom for our area picked him up. It was midnight before he reached campus - he had not eaten any dinner etc.) The April weekend he visited was gay pride weekend (or something like that). He felt it was too liberal for him. (He complains that our town is too conservative.) He was facing the pressure of making a decision and finals week was looming. (He had to take finals only because he missed days checking out colleges.) When we went to Carleton the next week I wanted to swing by Grinnell. He didn't want to do it. He was taking calculus on the net and was working on his homework - he emailed an assignment from Carleton library.

By Medusa2003 (Medusa2003) on Saturday, April 26, 2003 - 10:13 am: Edit

It might have been the Mary Be James cross-dressing ball. It's not necessarily a "gay pride" thing but more of a light-hearted fun thing. When our daughter attended a summer program for junior high students at rather conservative Truman State University they had a "cross-dressing" day for the students.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Saturday, April 26, 2003 - 10:59 am: Edit

Amd, I don't know if that is html standard but, as you pose the question, I think it might be. Someone showed me how to do it here.

By Sluggbugg (Sluggbugg) on Saturday, April 26, 2003 - 01:12 pm: Edit

Auto -- Yeah, that cookie sale will suck the life out of the best of parents! Watch out for the Fall Products Sale, and if somebody asks you to "help" organize a campout, RUN AWAY AS FAST AS YOU CAN. Don't say a word, just turn and run!

My dh has a saying that we both use on occasion, "There are an infinite number of Hells." In fact we used it last night at dinner with our daughter's b/f's family for her boyfriend's 18th birthday. I sat next to their younger daughter who is in eighth grade and looked like she was enjoying herself as much as I was!

My son, who is a freshman, noticed how the dad poured everybody a small glass of dessert wine, even the kids. In the first place, barfo on dessert wine. And, in the second place, her parents didn't seem to notice when their eighth grader downed her glass and grabbed the bottle for a refill. The scene from National Lampoon's Family Vacation came to mind, where the teenage son chuggalugs a can of beer while Chevy Chase as the dad gives him a lecture on becoming a man.

As for the baby clothes, um...well...let's just say that after the college application experience we've just been through, it's not gonna happen!

By Theasrhs (Theasrhs) on Saturday, April 26, 2003 - 02:07 pm: Edit

Kelly: my D said, quite regretfully, no to SLC after being accepted ED II because their offer was so far from any financial reality she really had no choice. And before anyone says - again - that it was unfair of her to apply ED II, knowing that there might not be enough financial aid, let me hasten to add that we *did* consider the realities of financial aid prior to her ED II application, I asked very pointed and specific questions of the financial aid dean about the particular issues (noncustodial parent contribution) in our case, and got back the answer that SL would take responsibility for getting the requisite contribution from the NCP. As with many single, custodial mothers, I had no idea of my d's NCP's financial situation because, of course, he would never share something like that with me. I had already obtained the estimate of my expected contribution, and felt quite comfortable with that (and even a bit more.) To complicate our situation further, my d's NCP was out of the country and inaccessible for 6 months, from mid-October to the first week in April.

As it turned out, SL both "misunderstood" my question, and, because the NCP turned in all the forms (well, his bookkeeper turned in all the forms) prior to leaving the country, assumed my d's NCP was a willing contributor. They based their offer on his assets, expected us to work out what his contribution would be, and then, get that contribution from him. Their basis was probably erroneous, but he could not correct that misapprehension since he was out of the country.

I sent a two-page letter to SL about the decision and the process as soon as my d confirmed with her NCP that he could not possibly contribute $30K per year towards her postsecondary education when he returned the first week in April. A friend has suggested I send a detailed letter to the Princeton Review. I will do so. I will copy the dean at SLC. It was an extremely unpleasant experience, not duplicated anywhere else (in terms of how SLC viewed the NCP contribution, and that they answered my quite explicit question incorrectly.) My D based her college application decisions on SL's incorrect information; the assistant to the financial aid dean was unbelievably rude to both of us when we tried to sort all this out; the FA dean was *on vacation* until just before the ED II acceptance deadline.

I see that Pitzer would have approached the NCP issue in the same way as SLC. Thanks for that info, Calmom. Makes me glad that d did not apply there!

This is the type of information only accessible through these boards. I really appreciate everyone's experiences, and hope it will help those who are just beginning this process. This is a way to get past the "face" colleges present when they are recruiting, and access more of the reality of what they are, or can be.

Speaking of that face: I finally realized that, when the colleges want to put their best student face forward, they trot out their seniors. I don't know about anyone else here, but I kept thinking that my d was no where near that level of maturity, which made me a little scared about it all. Well duh! Of course my d is no where near that level of maturity because she is 17! Not 21!

:-)

By Amd (Amd) on Saturday, April 26, 2003 - 03:32 pm: Edit

Medusa2003:

Almost certainly it was the ball that you are writing about. Could April be gay pride month (or a certain week in April gay pride week)? (I remember seeing something in Carleton too, last April.) Anyway, rightly or wrongly, son decided to go elsewhere. (As I wrote before, distance may have been the primary factor.)

By Emeraldkity4 (Emeraldkity4) on Saturday, April 26, 2003 - 04:20 pm: Edit

Some schools just have lots of gay pride events.
I don't know if there is a particular month for Gay Pride I think the parades are in June.
My daughters school has several gay pride activities but they are attended by a cross section of the campus- I believe last week it was the Fetish Ball

By Quink (Quink) on Saturday, April 26, 2003 - 06:05 pm: Edit

Theasrhs, I will be in a similar position regarding NCP contribution - but it will be zero (and this man has a PhD - no excuse for his attitude). Hence my aphorism: 'Divorce is the true test of character.'

Therefore, if my son were to qualify for need-based aid from my side, any chance of it would be totally destroyed by taking the NCP's income into account. While colleges may differ on this point, I know that some (most?) are determined to use both incomes, even if there isn't a snowball's chance in hell of getting a dime from the NCP. I suppose they are so worried about fraud that they just assume the NCP is lying and will actually contribute under the table - can't think of any other explanation.

By Texas137 (Texas137) on Saturday, April 26, 2003 - 06:09 pm: Edit

Quink - I think they assume that both parents have a legal obligation to support the child, regardless of marital or custody status. If the NCP refuses to pay whatever the college assigns as their share, it's really no different than any parent refusing to pay.

By Theasrhs (Theasrhs) on Saturday, April 26, 2003 - 06:48 pm: Edit

I really like Bennington College's stand on this issue (which is also in their literature, btw):

They realize every divorce is different, and will not punish the child for a NCP's refusal to pay.

By Tatara (Tatara) on Saturday, April 26, 2003 - 11:18 pm: Edit

Theasrhs,

I am very sorry that SLC's treatment of the NCP contribution affected your daughter's college choices. But I attended a financial aid workshop at the Open House in November and got a very different impression about SLC's policy regarding NCPs.

A question was asked about how SLC determined the NCP contribution. The dean's answer was that SLC would track down the NCP in order to get the income and assets information. A followup question was asked if they would also pursue the NCP for their share of the funds. My interpretation of her answer was "No, SLC will NOT pursue the funds. It is the responsibility of both parents to determine how they will jointly come up with the exected family contribution."

I also asked some pointed questions regarding how an ED application affected potential financial aid. The Dean assured me that it made no difference, and that full need (as determined by federal formulas using the FAFSA and Profile forms) was met for all admitted students. I was a bit stunned because I had not read that in any of their literature. I then asked if the FA package included parent loans, or student loans beyond the maximum Stafford loan. She said it included only gift aid, work study and Stafford loans (which are capped at $3500 for jr and sr year.)

In defense of the SLC financial aid department, they met our family's full need (which was approximately 3/4 of their sticker price.) Our experiences in dealing with them have been quite positive.

You have been quite scathing in your many remarks about the SLC financial aid process in this forum. This is understandable, given your daughter's disappointment and dashed hopes. But perhaps part of the problem was your own misinterpretation of the Dean's response.

By Theasrhs (Theasrhs) on Saturday, April 26, 2003 - 11:46 pm: Edit

Fortunately, the FA dean confirmed with me in an email that she had misunderstood the question I had asked in November, Tatara, or otherwise your comments might throw me into a real tailspin of self-doubt. I appreciate that my remarks might be considered "scathing"; you did not experience the rudeness with which we were treated, nor the underlying assumption that somehow we were trying to manipulate the system.

I'm delighted you had a different experience. That does not invalidate mine or my daughter's.

By Texas137 (Texas137) on Sunday, April 27, 2003 - 12:35 am: Edit

So what do colleges do if a custodial parent does not want to "pay up"? I'm sure there are plenty of parents who live with their kids and who do not want to make the sacrifices in life style that schools think they should make. It seems like the kid is still SOL in terms of financial aid. One way around this might be for the student to take off and work a year so that they can apply for FA based on their own, not their parents', income.

By Autodidact (Autodidact) on Sunday, April 27, 2003 - 04:28 am: Edit

Texas137: If it were only that easy! Regardless of where the student resides and who is really bearing the costs, students can not apply independently of their parents unless they are married or have a dependent. In my family growing up, we were all SOL, or up a S Creek without a paddle. My dad had major medical expenses, farmed, and wasn't about to sell off any land--probably couldn't have and remained viable--nor mortgage for any educational expenses. I think parents' income is considered, regardless if they are willing to or are contributing, up to age 24. That's why some of these kids are interested in emancipation proceedings. Iowa presently assumes each divorcing parent and the student will each be responsible for 1/3 of college costs. I know of no similar stipulation regarding parents who remain together. I'm going to have to go to court to get this in writing for NCP, who thinks his responsibility ended at 18, and is more concerned about accumulating his personal retirement account than in providing a better future for his children. He was insistent that she take a free ride option, not necessarily a good fit, just free. This approach will not be available to our second daugter, so I may have to remind him that he's currently living in a "community property" state, as we are long term separated, but not divorced. If necessary, I could make his life difficult. By the way, the eldest daughter has been informed she will be required to verify all financial aid information. Thus begins round four in our financial aid submissions.

By Autodidact (Autodidact) on Sunday, April 27, 2003 - 05:53 am: Edit

Farawayplaces and Medusa2003: Congratulations on your daughters' graduation and admittance. I expect she did see a "face", as you say, and possibly not the complete picture, but sufficient to let her know it was not what she wanted. I don't want to go into too many details for it was a local girl she visited, showed/introduced her around the dorm and campus. She spent a Friday night (prior to taking either the SAT or ACT (I can't remember which without looking back at the date she visited) the following morning--BIG MISTAKE! Take those puppies after a good night's sleep in your own bed. Anyway, I believe she got a fairly true grasp of the "social offerings." She too is a behaviorally conservative but openminded studentwithout the vices on offer. She's had the experience of being severely outnumbered by liberal classmates for five years and is tired of having to argue the right to an opposing opinion. She assuredly has no inclination or intention of prolonging the experience. She, too, has eliminated known "party schools" such as ASU from her list.
I'm glad you think it was a good fit for your daughters, though. I don't think the whole gay pride thing had any basis in her decision--there seems to be similar movements on all campuses other than those with affiliations on the extreme right. Thanks for sharing your balancing perspectives.

By Calmom (Calmom) on Sunday, April 27, 2003 - 06:01 am: Edit

More on financial aid and NCP.

As I recall, Lewis & Clark required FAFSA only for financial aid - the NCP issue comes up only with colleges that require the CSS profile. In any case, that's probably why both I and Theasrhs received generous offers for our kids at L&C.

The NCP issue is REALLY confusing because there is no set formula as to how a college will consider and weigh the NCP statement. Obviously, if the ex is rich but unwilling to contribute, then the kid will be SOL - but not so much because the college is being unfair as the fact that the non-contributing-parent is a jerk. The more difficult situation is when the ex is also middle-income, with his own set of financial obligations, and basically there is no consistent way that colleges will weigh the income and assets. So if we hypothesize a kid living with a mom who makes $45,000 and an ex-father with a $70,000 income, the college could be calculating an award based on an array of figures between $45K-$115K for parental income. The ONLY way to handle this is either to apply ONLY to colleges that ask for the FAFSA only, or to shop the financial aid at CSS Profile schools by applying to at least 4 or 5.

I think the hard thing is when a kid starts to get his or her heart set on a college, when money is a deciding issue.

NOTE TO AMD Above: The formatting for this board is NOT standard HTML. This board uses a proprietary format and will not recognize most HTML. The reason for that is that setting up a board to recognize standard HTML can be a security problem, as sophisticated hackers can use that to code in some nasty stuff. FWIW, this board runs on "Discusware" which was designed by a college student at Hope College, originally to run his a forum for his chemistry department. Originally distributed freely over the internet, the student and his prof obtained permission from the school to develop a commercial version, and when the student graduated, formed a company with his prof. to market the software.

By Autodidact (Autodidact) on Sunday, April 27, 2003 - 06:45 am: Edit

Interesting background info, Calmom; and I appreciate the added security. Seems even John Walsh is getting into online security marketing something called Street Smarts (I think) through America's Most Wanted as per last night's show.

By Autodidact (Autodidact) on Sunday, April 27, 2003 - 07:56 am: Edit

SluggBugg: I love camping, so this one probably wouldn't faze me. My camp would be more simply run than most with just four rules: 1. She who doesn't work, doesn't eat. 2. If it wasn't here when we got here, it won't be here when we leave. 3. Anybody who doesn't want to follow the guides' rules for safety, cooperation, or behavior goes home after the three strikes rule--regardless of the time. 4. All parents must be available to come at anytime--no sneaking out for a quick trip to Vegas, etc. because you know the kid is going to be out in the boonies and this is your opportunity to escape--invariably it's their kid who gets homesick, ill, or hurt and nobody knows how to get ahold of them. After several years of participation in PTA carrying out "bright ideas" others were unwilling or unable to do involving heavy time commitments or general grunt or dirty work--and experiencing too frequently one officer in particular who was too ready to take all the credit--I developed the ability to say a succinct "No." No excuses, and no explanations offered. I highly recommend the practice.
In reference to the b-day party, sounds like what we call a "CASPAR" Compulsory Attendence, Slow, Painful, And Ridiculous--where everybody would love to have the ability to disappear into thin air because the thing doesn't have a ghost of a chance of being successful! Or a real Pretentious, Inappropriate, Stodgy, Scream to be Enthusiastically Refused. (See Acronym)We've been to a few of these duty calls--and the next time invited some other duty always called louder. Self preservation is the primary duty of every human, particularly if you're in danger of being bored to death! As an aside, you could distance yourself with a contributing to the delinquency of a minor charge. I've got a nephew who is two who will chug anyone's beer he can get his hands on, and I'm seriously concerned he may become the youngest inebriate in the family, and my brother's reply was "Well, at least if he can't hold his liquor, his Huggies can." I definitely would consider the 8th grader in possible need of an intervention, but from what you've alluded the parents could be enough to drive anyone to drink!
Sounds like too much family togetherness to me.

By Amd (Amd) on Sunday, April 27, 2003 - 09:45 am: Edit

Calmom,

Thanks for the background info (on Discusware and the like). By the way, as you may know, Hope College is a Pope college. I know some kids who attended that and liked it.

amd

By Theasrhs (Theasrhs) on Sunday, April 27, 2003 - 01:15 pm: Edit

BTW: thanks Calmom and Sluggbugg for the supportive words on LC. I do think my d will be quite happy there. It's so.....*liveable*.

When I called to cancel the arranged overnight visit, Sluggbugg, the nice young man at UCSC who had made the arrangements, asked where my d had to decided to go. Upon hearing LC, he sort of vocally brightened, and said, "Oh! We have a lot of connections there!" There's something equally appealing about the schools, though I could not, for the life of me, get my d's attention on that point.

By Sluggbugg (Sluggbugg) on Monday, April 28, 2003 - 05:17 pm: Edit

Auto -- ROTFLOL! CASPAR and PI**ER are right on. Love the *Huggies* comment!

Theasrhs -- My dd really liked L&C's recent research on gecko feet and their amazing ability to walk around on glass. I suppose she'll be studying banana slug slime at UCSC! :>o@@@~ ~ ~

By Autodidact (Autodidact) on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 01:00 am: Edit

Sluggbugg: Sounds like your daughter and my younger would have something in common--she loves to learn about "untouchables", too. Stuff like "Did you know a skunk can spray you from 14 feet?" List of current disallowed pets in our house keeps growing--I've said no to snakes (python in particular), hamsters--of course, she wanted two, and we all know what that would have meant, large lizards, tarantula, and a descented albino skunk. We've already been through dogs, cats, rabbits, turtle, and a chameleon--she gave it to a friend who fancied it. She's petted alligator and (sleeping) sand shark--still has all fingers, but not always sure about faculties. She named her last kitten "Goldfish" because the college materials say they are the only pets allowed. It came with a "no return" policy, and I've grown up around animals all of my life, but this is the meanest little scrap of fluff I've ever seen. He bites constantly. Anybody got any ideas? He's well fed, has lots of stuff to play with, chase, and pounce on, but prefers to attack ankles, hands and, if you look away while laying on the bed, he launches a wicked guerilla attack on your face. We've already tried picking up by the scruff of the neck, spraying with a mister, and confining to his carrier. None of it seems to faze him. I have little nieces and nephews, and "fishy" is a terror. He has all three of the grown cats running for cover, although the neutered and declawed male has taken to thumping him--and I can't say as I blame him. Any suggestions other than euthanasia and to keep his rabies shot current?

By Emeraldkity4 (Emeraldkity4) on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 01:11 am: Edit

How old is the kitten?
It has been a long time since I had a kitten our cats are 20 & 16.
I would recommend massage more specifically t-touch
If you don't have a practioner in your area this book may be helpful
http://tteam-ttouch.com/ttouch.htm

By Autodidact (Autodidact) on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 08:29 pm: Edit

Emeraldkity4: Thanks for the link. The little pirana is eight weeks, and I believe part of the problem is we've had him for 2 weeks and he wasn't quite ready to leave his mum, yet. He could have used a little more feline socialization time. I'd never heard of this particular philosophy and technique before, but we do routinely try stroking him, as it has a calming effect on all others. However, he rolls over, wraps his paws around our wrist and arm and proceeds to try to massage his gums by sinking his very sharp teeth into our exposed flesh.

By Farawayplaces (Farawayplaces) on Thursday, May 01, 2003 - 01:41 am: Edit

Sluggbugg--your April 25th post was a scream and it helped carry us through the torture (just ended!) of our son's indecision. I didn't sleep for two days worrying that he would be unable to choose. Finally, he did choose (on the basis of which college he couldn't say "no" to), experienced some hours of sadness and turmoil, and now he is content. It's so hard to shed the colleges who've wanted you! Good luck to all the parents of rising seniors, and remember if MY KID can finally decide, any kid can!

By Sluggbugg (Sluggbugg) on Thursday, May 01, 2003 - 12:54 pm: Edit

I just realized that the college application and decision-making process is a lot like labor.

For about nine months, all of your attention is focused on one thing. You feel nauseous, obsessive, and all of your childless/non-high school-senior friends start keeping their distance because they can't relate to whatever the He-- your problem is! And, you gain weight because you're eating a lot of icecream and potato chips.

You're caught between nesting and trying to hold onto the last vestiges of youthful exuberance. You spend hours imagining how different your life will be a year from now. You're mostly thrilled and optimistic (especially when you look at the bedroom that will soon be remodeled), but there's also anxiety over losing control.

Finally, the big moment arrives (May 1st is delivery day), and for hours or perhaps days, you're hit with waves of excrutiating pain that subside, but never go away, accompanied by lots of deep breathing and profuse sweating.

What we get in the end is unique and glorious! Yay, the college decision has finally arrived!
Hugs all around, and lots of kissing, crying, and congratulating! By this time, a specialist may have been called in to administer drugs. You feel like high-fiving everyone you know for making the process less painful.

Whew...I'm pretty sure the second kid will be easier. Congrats, parents!

By Thedad (Thedad) on Thursday, May 01, 2003 - 01:41 pm: Edit

ROFLMAO!!!!!

Sluggy, we *need* you to stay around here.

By Autodidact (Autodidact) on Thursday, May 01, 2003 - 07:52 pm: Edit

Apt analogy, Sluggbugg: I suspect graduation and the moving of the tassel will seem a little like cutting the cord. My second child's experience will likely be comparable to breach delivery--she occasionally likes showing her butt. Rarely does anything the common way. I have often thought in retrospect that I should have named her Abby--short for Abbynormal, but I love her as she is!

By Dadster (Dadster) on Thursday, May 01, 2003 - 08:18 pm: Edit

Very well put, slugg... though I think the cord-cutting may come when you finish unloading the SUV and schlepping boxes up multiple flights of stairs. After you've had 5 minutes of well-deserved rest, your kid will walk back into the room, look at you quizzically, and say, "Are you still here?" Snip!

By Autodidact (Autodidact) on Saturday, May 03, 2003 - 09:08 am: Edit

Dadster: You could be right, but my daughter will be schepping her own stuff, since she's yet to learn how to pack light, and I feel like I've already moved heaven and earth to get her there. From this point on, I'm strictly just along for the ride!

By Wct (Wct) on Sunday, May 04, 2003 - 02:55 am: Edit

Sluggbugg,
Good luck the second time around!
Our second time? 11 applications, 10 auditions.
Way more stressful than the first time around!

By Amd (Amd) on Sunday, May 04, 2003 - 07:20 am: Edit

I think the cord-cutting may come when you finish unloading the SUV and schlepping boxes up multiple flights of stairs. After you've had 5 minutes of well-deserved rest, your kid will walk back into the room, look at you quizzically, and say, "Are you still here?" Snip!

LOL. I can relate to this. [Though in my case, it was only one flight of stairs - son's room was on the second floor. Also, what SUV? It was a 64 Chevy in my case ;-)]

my daughter will be schepping her own stuff, since she's yet to learn how to pack light, and I feel like I've already moved heaven and earth to get her there. From this point on, I'm strictly just along for the ride!

This may be easier said than done. I am still [as in day before yesterday and today] schlepping stuff for my son who is finishing his freshman year of college ;-)

By Autodidact (Autodidact) on Sunday, May 04, 2003 - 09:30 pm: Edit

Amd: commiserations! I look at all of the stuff in my daughter's bedroom and think just how many trips it will take, and I haven't visited her potential dorm yet, but likely will by the end of the month. I'm thankful she drives a Taurus with a deep trunk! For those of us with back and neck problems, it's far cheaper to pay others to do the schlepping, both in terms of time, pain, and doctors' or chiropractors' bills--and I have several teenage nephews and nieces always looking to make a few extra bucks and see new vistas. The only times they've ever been out of state I took them, so they're always up for a road trip.

By Samara (Samara) on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 03:35 pm: Edit

Go UCSC! That's where i'm planning on going too