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My daugher is an excellent student (all A's in honors courses/mostly interested in physics & math) and she is a talented musician playing in honors orchestras and two jazz bands. She had sat's about 1400 and applied to all "reach" schools (unfortunately, no "safety" school). She was wait-listed at Bowdoin and Colby and rejected at all the others. We are worried that she won't be going to college in the fall. Her H.S. guidance dept is a joke. They mentioned that there is a list issued on May 10th from colleges with spaces available for the fall. Does anyone know about this list? (It is from the American Assoc. of College Admissions or something like that...). Does anyone have any helpful advice? We are in a state of shock and cannot think of what to do. Do we just sit back and have her apply for the January session at the State College? We have learned that the college competition is a huge gamble; we are very disappointed in the process!

By Rosarosaef (Rosarosaef) on Wednesday, April 16, 2003 - 10:51 pm: Edit

if the guidance department has failed, i'd say it's time for a meeting with the school principal or headmaster. someone from that school has to act as an advocate for your daughter immediately. they have to get on the phone to bowdoin and colby, and explain, threaten, argue, cajole, whatever it takes. a principal or headmaster who refuses to do this for a student with all A's in honors courses should be fired. he/she really can't guarantee success, but must at least make the effort.

By Hautbois (Hautbois) on Wednesday, April 16, 2003 - 10:55 pm: Edit

There is a place that lists schools that still have openings. I'll look around and see if I can find it.

Are you in a state that has good Community Colleges with transfer options to Universities by any chance? (Here in California there's a great system for this.)

I'm sorry about this problem. (What instrument does your daughter play? Just curious, being a musician myself!)

By Hautbois (Hautbois) on Wednesday, April 16, 2003 - 11:01 pm: Edit

Okay ... back from a very quick search. I'm usually not a Princeton Review person (the message boards there are as rude as can be, unlike this place!), but I did find a list of colleges with rolling admission as well as places that still have openings:
http://www.princetonreview.com/college/apply/articles/types/deadlines.asp

By Dadster (Dadster) on Wednesday, April 16, 2003 - 11:07 pm: Edit

For a very capable student in this situation, there are various options. Some colleges, even "full" ones, might make room for a student who is highly qualified. (Say, top 5 or 10% of applicant pool.)

Alternatively, a productive year off might create a good hook or two and end up in a more successful set of applications.

It may be time to think outside the box.

By Hautbois (Hautbois) on Wednesday, April 16, 2003 - 11:09 pm: Edit

And back again (whether you want me or not ) ...

I found an article: http://csmweb2.emcweb.com/durable/2001/04/17/fp17s1-csm.shtml

It fills you in, but, even better, gives the website you can go to. The last paragraph reads:

Even as the number of colleges with available slots after May 1 is apparently shrinking, the Internet is making availability of information on openings that do exist more readily accessible. To check the American Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers listing beginning May 7, go to www.aacrao.com and navigate to "What's New."

Hope this helps!

By Nocollege (Nocollege) on Wednesday, April 16, 2003 - 11:12 pm: Edit

The community colleges here (in Mass.) are for kids who just barely graduate from H.S. My daughter is academically above that level. The State University is pretty good, but she didn't apply there. The next chance for admission at UMass Amherst is January. I am so angry and disappointed with the lack of guidance she has received at her school that I don't want to talk to them. Her guidance counselor never met with her personally, just saw her in group sessions. I called her a few weeks ago and said I was worried that she would be rejected everywhere she applied, her response was "everyone finds their own place in the world" and "wherever she goes will be the RIGHT place for her" blah blah blah. She should be fired, but I am so disgusted I cannot speak to her. My husband and I want to deal with this on our own and never trust the school again. This is such a huge disappointment for my daughter, who is such a great kid - never any trouble, always working hard at school to get good grades - Now, she learns that it doesn't make any difference - she'll have to go to a state school anyway!

By the way, Hautbois, she plays acoustic bass - both classical and jazz. She loves it! She also teaches 4 middle school beginning-level bass students and really enjoys it.

By Nocollege (Nocollege) on Wednesday, April 16, 2003 - 11:14 pm: Edit

Thank you for all the help! I'll get busy and do my research.

By Hautbois (Hautbois) on Thursday, April 17, 2003 - 12:06 am: Edit

Well, I do hope you find the right spot for her. I'm glad I found what I could ... and I'll bet there's more but I'm busy getting ready for a flight tomorrow so I have no more time.

There really isn't a "guidance counselor" at our high school, so I understand your dilemma. We did everything on our own for both our son (now a junior in college) and daughter (senior in H.S.). I've learned a great deal since our daughter's rejections (our son got in nearly everywhere he applied and it all went easily for him). Live and learn; our third will have a different experience now that I've seen what can happen to a student who gets good grades, has a ton of ECs, and even manages an 800 on the Verbal SAT (math was a bit low - only a 630). But she's doing fine with the choices she does have and I'm proud of her for all she's done.

Good for the music in your daughter's life! I began my teaching "career" in high school as well, and I"m still at it. I can't imagine life without music, but it seems that our country can imagine a world without symphonies.

Enough of me. Wishing you the best!

By Wadad (Wadad) on Thursday, April 17, 2003 - 01:54 am: Edit

I have heard that adcoms can be sympathetic in these situations. Explain the situation to Colby & Bowdoin (you might have better luck at Colby as they are generally considered less selective), and your daughter might get lucky.

By Hildegard (Hildegard) on Thursday, April 17, 2003 - 06:41 am: Edit

To Hautbois,

You wrote:

"I've learned a great deal since our daughter's rejections (our son got in nearly everywhere he applied and it all went easily for him). Live and learn; our third will have a different experience now that I've seen what can happen to a student who gets good grades, has a ton of ECs, and even manages an 800 on the Verbal SAT (math was a bit low - only a 630). "

Could you be more specific in your last statements? You said that your third kid will have a different experience, now that you know what can happen to a kid with good grades, tons of EC's, 800 SAT's, etc...

What is it that you learned that can get your son in,besides those stellar grades/scores/ECs ? I don't understand what you're trying to say...

Thanx

By Redbeard (Redbeard) on Thursday, April 17, 2003 - 06:58 am: Edit

OK, one parent to another: teaching moment, here.

a. Model the right kind of behaviors. I know you're angry--our guidance counselor was a buffoon. Get a grip. March right back and hold them accountable, as Rosa said. Show your daughter that you are not overcome with your (understandable) emotional reaction.

b. Teach her to make lemonade. All our kids will face major setbacks like this, despite our best efforts. This just seems eariler than most. A gap year is a great idea. 17 is too early to begin the huge transition: 15 hours of class, 70 hours of studying, living away from home, meeting all new people, changing sleeping and eating habits, new standards of cleanliness, etc., etc. The mind focuses much better at 20 than it does at 17.

c. Do something positive with the gap year. Staying in town and helping out in elementary school is probably not the best answer. Volunteer for something big-- music in Appalachia, for example.

d. Don't reject the US military as an option. After two years, your daughter enters college with a maturity and self-discipline that will allow her to tower over her peers. Be careful, here, that she does not get over-recruited. Our high-tech military would love for somebody like your daughter to spend 20 years fixing jets. Two years and she's out.

e. Give her a hug. It's important to understand that those good grades and that hard work were certainly noticed and were worth something. I know you probably do this anyway, but do it again.

I don't like the idea of going to UMass in January. She can do much better, and she should.

Good luck!

By Hautbois (Hautbois) on Thursday, April 17, 2003 - 08:02 am: Edit

To Hildegard ... can't respond right now, as I'm going out of town, but I'll explain when I get back (tomorrow or Saturday).

Quick note; it's about where we apply and how, but also more ....

By Sallyr (Sallyr) on Thursday, April 17, 2003 - 08:35 am: Edit

Nocollege-This is surely a tough, frustrating time for you and your family, but--once it's all over--you may find that somehow things worked out for the better.

For starters, you should certainly stay in touch with the Colby and Bowdoin admission offices. If you haven't already contacted the official who covers your geographic region and your daughter's school, now is the time to get on a first-name basis with him or her. Obviously, indicate that you are appreciative of any special considerations that might be offered, and not entitled to them.

The National Association for College Admission Counseling space-available survey should be posted on or about May 8th. If you want to look at last year's to give you some idea of the range of schools included, go to: NACAC
Make sure, when visiting this site, that you differentiate between freshman vacancies and transfer vacancies, which are also listed.

The College Board offers an "Advanced Search" (look for the direct link on the home page). You or your daughter can select the characteristics you seek in a college (size, location, majors offered, etc.) as well as a "deadlines" option. Be sure to check that one as well, and the "results" you will net should include only colleges that are still accepting applications. If, however, your daughter will also be a candidate for financial aid, make sure that aid deadlines have not passed. Sometimes they are earlier than application deadlines.

Finally, here are a couple places to look if your daughter decides to take a year off from schooling. Keep in mind that this can be a great idea for a lot of students--not just those who didn't get into the colleges they chose. A year away from school may help your daughter define her goals and get more out of her college experience than she might have, had she gone right from high school.

Try Americorps

or Time Out Associates

Again, while it's hard to be in the middle of this kind of dilemma, your daughter is clearly a bright and talented young woman and she will land on her feet--wherever she ends up. The key is to make sure her parents are still standing, too, when all of this is behind you!

By Mamamiles (Mamamiles) on Thursday, April 17, 2003 - 09:00 am: Edit

Nocollege... try Indiana University Bloomington! They have strong science programs, an awesome music program, a gorgeous campus, and rolling admissions!

By Nocollege (Nocollege) on Thursday, April 17, 2003 - 10:11 am: Edit

Thank you, all; this is a difficult time and it has been wonderful to receive your kind advice. I am looking into many of these suggestions. I think we will be "making lemonade" out of this sour situation and will learn valuable lessons! Thank you again....it has meant so much to me! I feel at this point that we are not at a dead end and that we will land on our feet!! Best wishes to all of you!!!

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Thursday, April 17, 2003 - 11:30 am: Edit

This is just a post to say I will be thinking of you, cause I do not have a lot of advice. My oldest is a junior right now. I have read your post and the responses and I am going to admit...it scares the daylights out of me. I have a daughter that resembles yours from the little you said. My daughter is number one in her class...also straight As throughout school in the hardest levels of classes. Also, tons of committed extracurriculars that include performing arts and sports. Your story scares me and in fact, I am hearing too many stories like this. Our valedictorian this year did not get into any of her schools but her safety school....she is waitlisted at three good schools, including Bowdoin like your daughter. Another top student in our school (tops in music as well) also did not get into any but her safety...she is waitlisted at her top choice, Colby, like your daughter. I interview propective students from my region for Tufts University, my alma mater. I interviewed seven excellent candidates and NONE got accepted. Last year, I interviewd five and none got in. These have included valedictorians, salutatorians, and legacies! The whole admissions thing at top schools is starting to feel entirely unpredictable and extremely capable kids are getting rejected...obviously they could fill the class over many times with qualified kids. It comes down to them building a class...it is not neceassarily like they take the top 1000 kids off the pile, but they build up a diverse grouping. So, sometimes someone who appears even better qualified might not get in than someone with lesser credentials due to the types they want to build that class. The whole thing is really nervewracking.

Your story touches me, particularly having a child like yours. When they have worked their butt off day and night for years doing everything right so to speak...nothing more they could do...and have succeeded and excelled and then to see this happen is very upsetting.

I will admit that I think you might have gotten some poor advice at school. She definitely should have had safety schools on her list. My daughter does and she likes her safety schools actually very much. These safety schools are not that easy to get into but are easier than the rest of her list.

Though the guidance dept. shortchanged your daughter, I feel they owe you now and should be concerned themselves about the outcome of her case and her plans for next year. I do not think it should be JUST about finding a school that is still taking applications. For sure, look into that. She just might like that school and she could transfer next year at the least. However, I think that the guidance counselor should be going to bat for your child. They should be calling the admissions offices at Bowdoin and Colby and not only explaining how your daughter wishes very much to enroll there if accepted off the wait list but also explain how she is this top straight A student with the whole package so to speak and has not got into any college. I think they should know this situation. It is not like she wants to go to Colby OVER some other place she already is admitted to. It is like Colby (or Bowdoin) or NO COLLEGE! How can anyone want a student like your daughter, clearly a top top student, to have no college options for next year? I think your daughter should contact them, you should, the guidance should, and any other professional (teachers, music staff, etc) that can speak for the situation and the child. Don't sit and wait. You cannot get her in but you can show them the situation and also how much she really really wants to matriculate there if taken off the waitlist.

Keep looking into other schools, ones with rolling admissions and all. If there are any college advisors in your area, seek them out for advice.

I wish you well and I hope you will keep us informed of what transpires. I feel as others do that while this is quite upsetting, you can rise above and brainstorm solutions and make the best of the situation and something will turn out. Get help with it and be diligent. I feel for you. I think something will turn up with your pursuit.
Susan

By Marcie (Marcie) on Thursday, April 17, 2003 - 12:39 pm: Edit

I would also recommend Indiana University. They have an excellent music dept., supposed to be the top in the nation for public colleges. My daughter's violin teacher double majored there in math and music performance.

Another family friend was in a somewhat similar situation to your daughter's: she is a dancer and did not make it into any of the professional ballet companies she was auditioning for. Smart girl, good in math, excellent dancer, no college plans because she was in auditions thinking she would be accepted somewhere for that. She applied to Indiana in late summer or early fall, took a couple of classes at community college in the fall, and started at Indiana in Jan. She is a junior now and likes it there.

By Nocollege (Nocollege) on Thursday, April 17, 2003 - 12:48 pm: Edit

Susan: Thank you so much for your wonderful letter. It means a lot to me. This morning, my daughter has applied on-line to two schools with rolling admissions - Rutgers and Purdue. Both are large schools with good reputations in math and science. We will hear within a couple of weeks. We have also called to set up appts. at both schools. I didn't want her to leave New England but now things are different. If she is admitted to either of these schools, and is unhappy after one year, she will be able to transfer. At least she will be attending school in the fall. Our heads have been spinning the last couple of weeks; now at least we feel better knowing that some good school still may accept her. We must keep positive for her sake and reassure her that she will be going to college in September.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Thursday, April 17, 2003 - 01:22 pm: Edit

back to you.....it sounds like you guys are in a good working process there. Even though you wanted her to go to school in New England, since you live in MA...Rutgers really is not that far as it is in North Jersey. Not sure where you are in MA but I am guessing that Rutgers would be no more than 3 1/2 hours from you so it might not be that much different than going to one of the schools in Maine (not sure where else she applied). Still keep at it with Colby at least. NOTHING to lose, all to gain. Again, tell them your daughter's actual situation, not just that she wants Colby. My daughter just left on the school trip to France and one of the seniors on the trip is still hoping to get off the Colby waitlist but has UVM as her back up (we live in VT). Keep us abreast. I assume your kids go to a bigger school than my kids (fair assumption given where we live) but it is sad that the guidance counselor does not or is not able to meet individually with kids to advise them on things like their college choices and what not. My girls' guidance counselor has known them for several years and we can meet at any time about them. Did your guidance counselor write a recommendation for your daughter? I assume she is one of the top students at your school if she is straight As in all honors classes? If so, I would think the guidance counselor has a vested interest and desire to see that this student gets into a college! I guess you gave up on her but see if your daughter can stop by her office and ask her to intervene on her behalf. I mean that is her job...she should WANT to!

I'm glad you guys are on a mission.....moving forward. Something will turn up. Those are good schools your daughter is still going for. I am sorry she is going through this and I wish she had had one of those at the outset as a safety school. College admissions at the more challenging schools is so hard to predict currently, that a student cannot assume they will get in to them and must have some back up schools. I have read on these forums of some students' lists of schools to which they have applied and I have been amazed at how some lists also have no safety schools and just the very top schools. Right now, my daughter has two safety schools that are not exactly easy to get into but a bit safer chances than the others on her list....these two are Connecticut College and Lehigh (I realize they are not safety for some kids but I think they fairly are for my kid). She is thinking of looking into Smith now as well which again is not an easy school but easier admittance rate than the majority of schools on her list. Hearing others' outcomes necessitates making sure she has some easier schools in case on the list. But most of all, the child has to like the safety schools cause she may end up going to them...and thankfully my child really liked hers.

Good luck....keep posting. Tell your daughter we are all behind her and frankly, her story is not the first I am hearing of this sort. A top girl in our school last year applied to about ten colleges and did not get into any (also involved in jazz music). But then she must have applied to a school after the fact and now is going there. I wish these stories were not so commonplace, particularly among some of our brightest deserving students. I wish your guidance counselor had advised your daughter better as well.
Susan

By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Thursday, April 17, 2003 - 01:26 pm: Edit

Cedar Crest College in Pennsylvania is an all-women's college with a very strong science program that is still accepting limited applications. Might be a good gap year type of place.
Carolyn

By Texas137 (Texas137) on Thursday, April 17, 2003 - 01:34 pm: Edit

I liked the suggestion on another list of the American College in Paris. I spent a semester there a million years ago, to fill a gap btwn the school I got into and hated, and the school I transferrred to and ultimately graduated from. Your daughter may not have any background in French, but that wouldn't matter. The school attracts Americans who have been living with their families all over Europe. (not so many students coming from stateside)

By Proudtobemom (Proudtobemom) on Thursday, April 17, 2003 - 01:43 pm: Edit

I know your interest lies more in college, but here's a link to a number of "interim" programs that might be of interest to students who are looking at "time off" options:

http://members.tripod.com/malbarelli/interim_programs.htm

By Medprof (Medprof) on Thursday, April 17, 2003 - 02:39 pm: Edit

Both Rutgers and Purdue are fine research universities with world class scientists on the faculty. Your daughter may like it there. If she does not like the setting, she can always transfer for the second year. I know many students who transferred into Top25 and Ivy league schools.

By Tsdad (Tsdad) on Thursday, April 17, 2003 - 03:40 pm: Edit

Rutgers is a very good school, reasonably priced, with rolling admissions. It is one of the orginal colonial colleges. It's only an hour bus or train ride from NYC. But, like most state schools, the economy is creating some pain for it. It has a new President, Richard McCormick, who is an alum and son of a beloved RU professor and administrator. He is, himself, a former professor and Dean at Rutgers as well as Provost at UNC-Chapel Hill, and President of the University of Washington. Big things are expected of him.

By Nocollege (Nocollege) on Thursday, April 17, 2003 - 05:06 pm: Edit

Wow - I cannot believe the wonderful ideas I am getting here, plus the comforting information about the two schools. I am so happy that I asked my question here. This is a wonderful forum with thoughtful parents willing to give assistance to one another! Thank you again & again!

By Redbeard (Redbeard) on Thursday, April 17, 2003 - 05:48 pm: Edit

OK, I'll chip in with what we know about Purdue. My son was admitted, but we chose not to go there. I can give you the benefit of lots of research:

The centerpiece program is engineering, as you might figure. Their engineering school is ranked 6th, above all the Ivies. One in 20 engineers in the world is a Purdue graduate. So are 22 astronauts, including the first and last men on the moon. Your smart, science-oriented daugther should try her hand at the engineering school if she goes to Purdue.

Freshman engineering is a separate part of the school. Students, depending on their GPA after two semesters, can select a major among the "professional" schools. My impression is that the college goes above and beyond in its support of freshmen. There's extensive help sessions, study rooms with on-call TAs, and a special "GPA recovery" program if they stumble. I'm impressed that they don't give up on the kids very easily. They even have a monthly newsletter to parents that tells us when the exams are! (I guess that's so we don't bother them at critical moments.)

They have an extensive music program, but no music major. Like all Big 10 schools, they have a large marching band. The band has the world's largest drum.

As for the campus, you have to like brick. Red brick. Except the alumni house. It's white brick.

Keep us posted!

By Wiscmom (Wiscmom) on Thursday, April 17, 2003 - 05:58 pm: Edit

I would like to second the recommendation for Purdue. My son was accepted there for the fall for engineering, but will be attending another Big Ten school for which we will pay in-state tuition. Purdue was a wonderful place -- and if the cost doesn't matter, I would highly recommend it. Another bonus is that I would expect you'll have an answer within a week. They're that quick in their decision. I am sure they would be delighted to enroll your daughter. This story could have a very happy ending! (We thought the campus was great, people nice, safe atmosphere.) Hard to beat!

By Brd (Brd) on Thursday, April 17, 2003 - 06:03 pm: Edit

"The band has the world's largest drum.

I must take issue with this. "Big Bertha" here at UT is the worlds largest drum. Everything's bigger in Texas.

BTW Nocollege, best of luck on your endeavors. Since young women interested in science seem to be a heavily recruited group, I can only say this must be a fluke and some extraordinarily bad luck. But if you persist I am sure you will find a great school.

By Bxian (Bxian) on Thursday, April 17, 2003 - 06:27 pm: Edit

Don't give up! I have a friend whose son did not START the application process until April of his Senior year-he ended up getting a tennis scholarship and several acceptances even at that late date! I second the recommendation that you call Colby and/or Bowdoin and explain her circumstances. Good luck!

By Optimystic (Optimystic) on Thursday, April 17, 2003 - 07:24 pm: Edit

I'm so sorry to hear about your daughter. It's a very unfortunate situation. Her grades and musical interests sound a lot like my daughter. Please give your daughter lots of love and encouragement. With stats like those, "I" would pay a personal visit to the school office to enlist that they become an advocate for your daughter. My daughter did not apply to any safe schools and I wish she had. You can never count on anything with any certainty today. I don't know what state in which you reside, but my daughter and other very strong students were given a "free ride" to the University of "" "without" applying. You may want to check with your University. But, I still think you may talk to those schools who have wait-listed her to see if you can intercede on her behalf. Keep the faith and Best Wishes to you all!

By Kelly_Johnson (Kelly_Johnson) on Thursday, April 17, 2003 - 11:57 pm: Edit

The New College (the honors college) of Florida is still taking applications. They are a small school with lots of individual attention. Also, each student completes a major research project every year. There are no core requirements or anything, so she can immerse herself in math and science all she wants.

www.ncf.edu

By Calmom (Calmom) on Friday, April 18, 2003 - 06:25 am: Edit

Geographic diversity an issue?

It's too late now, and this goes back to the issue with the high school guidance department - but I'm guessing that part of Nocollege-daughter's problem might have been the initial desire to attend school in New England.

I'm only raising this point for other parents who may be reading this and wondering what went wrong -- I guess one "rule of thumb" would be to apply to reach schools that are located geographically far away, and focus more on matches & safeties locally. I'm sure with her credentials, this girl would have easily won admission to top colleges in the midwest, for example.

One other note: though I agree that the guidance office messed up here, I don't see what the parent is going to get by trying to to "hold them accountable." (Other than feeling better after blowing off steam). In inept guidance counselor isn't going to suddently be able to give better advice, and is unlikely to have much pull with admissions offices. I think the problem was in relying too much on the gc in the first place, and the better course of action is for this kid is to do her own research and get going on her own. (Which it sounds like she has already done -- Purdue is an EXCELLENT choice for math & science, by the way).

By 1tcm (1tcm) on Friday, April 18, 2003 - 08:27 am: Edit

Kelly had a wonderful suggestion in New College of Florida. We visited last year (although son is going somewhere else) and I'd be glad to answer any questions you might have.......

By Nocollege (Nocollege) on Friday, April 18, 2003 - 09:02 am: Edit

Calmom is right about the "New England" thing. I really wanted my daughter to be within driving distance from us. But, with the fierce competition from the suburban Boston schools and the numerous private schools in the area, the NE colleges only take the very top students. She looks good to us, but there are so many who look better to the college admissions people. All her schools were within 5 hrs of Boston.

We have looked into New College of Florida - very interesting school! It is a possibility. My daughter & my husband both agree that Purdue and Rutgers are the best choices right. We have a second child in 10th grade and, lucky for him, we have had this learning experience - we won't make the same mistakes next time.

By Bjturlington (Bjturlington) on Saturday, April 19, 2003 - 06:44 am: Edit

Hey Nocollege...

What about Harvard University Extention School...one of the schools of Harvard. Although the classes are mostly at night, all your daughter has to do is take four classes and then apply. As long as a B average is kept...she's in. Plus, the classes are cheaper too. Same faculty and same Ivy. It is about $450.00 a four credit class. You might want to check it out. If she doesn't like it, she can transfer to other schools. Also, look at UPenn...they also have such a program. Otherwise, have your daughter write a letter to Colby saying she's still interested and why. Include the lates activities. Hope this helps.

Rob.

By Cara811888 (Cara811888) on Sunday, April 20, 2003 - 03:18 pm: Edit

www.iu-bremen.de

By Choff (Choff) on Thursday, April 24, 2003 - 07:55 pm: Edit

"The band has the world's largest drum.

I must take issue with this. "Big Bertha" here at UT is the worlds largest drum. Everything's bigger in Texas.
-----------------------------

Got to put in my late $.02 here! As an alumni of The "All American" Marching Band, Purdue's is bigger, by volume, UT is bigger by diameter I've been told.

Now, back to the subject. If nocollege is checking out Purdue, do try to get a chance to talk to their band department. They have a fantastic jazz band program there (along with the marching and indoor bands). The nice part of it is no one is a music major, so they are all there for the pure love of music. My dearest college friends (and husband) all are a result of the band program there.

Purdue is rather in the middle of nowhere, but it's not hard to get in and out of campus by air. There's a van shuttle that's inexpensive and goes from the residence halls and campus to Indy to catch flights. We're in VA and our son has been out there this year.

By Mike (Mike) on Friday, April 25, 2003 - 12:18 pm: Edit

Noticed on their website that the University of the Pacific is still taking Apps.


Mike's Dad

By Theasrhs (Theasrhs) on Friday, April 25, 2003 - 03:41 pm: Edit

(Just taking the opportunity to tell you, Mike's Dad, that, from what I've seen here, you should be very proud of Mike. His postings have a level of maturity I can only envy. I'm really impressed with his thoughtful awareness.)

By Mike (Mike) on Friday, April 25, 2003 - 05:01 pm: Edit

Thanks, He has his moments. Some times his maturity surprises me and somtimes ???


He and a Catholic friend "fought the thirty years war at school" this year for thirty days. Included water and forged hall passes.


Mike's Dad

By Boxergirl (Boxergirl) on Sunday, April 27, 2003 - 08:47 am: Edit

Dear nocollege,
The same thing happened to my son this year. Honor student, in activities, Salutatoriun of his class, etc. We didn't know anything about having a "safety school." I met with his vice principal. Also call your state's big colleges. Even if she missed the deadline they do not like to turn away good students from their own state. Try to speak with someone in admissions directly and explain your situation. She can always transfer next year. Good luck I know what you're going thru.

By Theasrhs (Theasrhs) on Sunday, April 27, 2003 - 12:32 pm: Edit

Second to Boxergirl's suggestion, nocollege. The daughter of an acquaintance, 4.5 GPA, 1500+ SAT, IB degree did not get into any of the 5 colleges to which she applied - also no safeties. We are in California, and the nearest University of California was totally delighted to accept her way, way WAY after the UC priority deadline (November 30th). Not only that, they came up with enough scholarship money to give her a free ride.

By Tsdad (Tsdad) on Monday, April 28, 2003 - 03:40 pm: Edit

Another thought, sorry if someone already mentioned it above: some colleges accept students for spring semester. I've seen that this year with USC, some UC schools, and Middlebury. Take a look at it as an alternative.

There was a thread perhaps on PR about the February class at Middlebury. They mentioned that their graduation takes place on a ski slope and all the students and professors ski down.

Think about that, and your child can go to the local cc for a semester and get some credits, which could save you a bunch of money.

By Elleneast (Elleneast) on Monday, April 28, 2003 - 04:12 pm: Edit

Dear Nocollege,

I have been checking this thread for some time and just wanted to let you know how much our family is pulling for your daughter. Our daughter just went through the application process and this could easily have been her story. I have no advice to give because the suggestions that you have received thus far cover every possible base so well. I just had to let you know that I have a good feeling about how things will turn out....your daughter is just too well credentialed for one of these schools not to grab her.

Best of luck.

By Hautbois (Hautbois) on Monday, April 28, 2003 - 05:45 pm: Edit

Theasrhs ... care to share with us? Which UC? I'm just curious if the "biggies" are doing this ... not for my d, who has made her decision, but for the future.

By Theasrhs (Theasrhs) on Monday, April 28, 2003 - 06:52 pm: Edit

I doubt UCB or UCLA would extend this kind of offer, but would not reject UCSD as improbable. The specific UC was Santa Cruz. I suspect any of them would have worked to get this kid in, except for UC or UCLA - and maybe UCSB.

I'd say it would be worth the effort at the remaining UC campuses.

By Wobudong (Wobudong) on Monday, April 28, 2003 - 08:17 pm: Edit

Lots of good advice here. Your daughter is above the honors college mean for several state schools that have good honors programs. Also check out UMBC and Delaware She is also above the automatic scholarship level at Rutgers if you are a NJ resident. Don't give up on Bowdoin and Colby just yet. They are safe schools for a lot of kids who will go to Ivies and Ivy equivalents. Let them know that you really want to come (if you still do). By mid May the picture might change dramatically. Keep your chin up and remember that most admissions folks at the "elite" schools have never had a real job.

By Jellybean4 (Jellybean4) on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 11:31 am: Edit

Nocollege -- while the guidance department was not very helpful to you or your daughter you should have known to apply to a safety school. not everyone gets into harvard and yale, its not a secret. you cannot completely blame guidance for an error on both parts.

By Tsdad (Tsdad) on Friday, May 02, 2003 - 07:56 am: Edit

Nocollege.

Please update us on the status of your daughter's college hunt. Where will she be in the fall?

By Morgantruce (Morgantruce) on Friday, May 02, 2003 - 06:27 pm: Edit

Every time I see this thread updated, I think it MUST be Nocollege---with some wonderful news for everyone who's been following this story.

By Ariesathena (Ariesathena) on Saturday, May 10, 2003 - 04:26 pm: Edit

Nocollege:
As a lifelong MA resident (and current Tufts student), some advice: UMass Amherst has an honours programme that your daughter may be able to apply for, which has smaller classes and (possibly) a separate living situation. All students who are in the top 5% of their h.s. class are invited to apply for the Chancellor's scholarship, which ivolves free tuition to the university (actually a tuition waver, so you don't get taxed on it). This also allows students to take classes at Smith - an excellent school! Get on the phone with the UMass admissions office and ask if she can get into those programmes at this late date. Chances are, they would love to take her.

Get a few teachers, music instructors, etc. to write recommendations and send them to Colby and Bowdoin. That might help her chances... just show them that she's smart, talented, and interested.

There are also schools which your daughter can attend for a "thirteenth year," which is not uncommon. Look into that.

Good luck to her!! As someone who remembers the application process a few years ago, I can sympathize. 01 May brought rejection and waitlist letters from all of the schools except the one I knew I would be admitted based on a legacy situation.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Saturday, May 10, 2003 - 09:56 pm: Edit

Ariesathena....you gave some good advice to the mom with the daughter with nocollege....I have been thinking about her and I hope she will post an update. The idea of having some teachers go to bat for her is a good one too.

I do not know your situation but from your post, you were only accepted at Tufts, is that right? I do not mean "only" as if not good enough...Tufts is very hard to get in....I only meant that is the school you meant as being the one you got admitted to, right? And you are assuming it is due to legacy, right? One thing you said is that you "KNEW" you would be admitted based on being a legacy. But ya know, not everyone gets admitted who is legacy...though I am sure it helps. I am an alumni of Tufts as is my husband (and I loved it btw) and I also am an alumni interviewer in my region and have been for years. I have observed how very difficult it is to get admitted to Tufts. In fact, very few I interview get in, unfortunately and most seem really fabulous kids/students to me. This year, all seven I interviewed were rejected as were all five I interviewed last year. Some years, some get in of course. But anyway, do not assume legacies automatically get in. One very fine applicant (in my view) was a legacy...dad went to undergrad in engineering AND to grad for the dental school and she did NOT get in. So, legacy helps but I guess it is not guarantee. My own junior daughter is interested in Tufts and I am not counting on her necessarily getting in. It would be nice to think legacy helps, though. But I can see it is not a sure thing. You got in there regular decision, yes? Hope you love it as much as I did. We visited this year with my daughter and I can see why I loved it at your age as I still found so much about the school very appealing and my daughter also did. Much continued success to you and I hope you are happy going there even if it was the only school you got in....it sure is a good one!
Susan

By Nocollege (Nocollege) on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 - 09:25 am: Edit

Just to update everyone - No news yet from Purdue and Rutgers (both of which she applied to online). We hope to hear in the next week. If she is accepted to one or both, we will visit and make a decision right away. Both schools seem suited to her.

Umass,Amherst, is our next bet, for January 2004.

Thanks for all the help - I'll keep everyone posted when we hear.

By Tsdad (Tsdad) on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 - 09:39 am: Edit

Glad to hear from you. Good luck. Either college would be an excellent choice.

TsDad (Rutgers College, 1965)

By Nocollege (Nocollege) on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 09:23 am: Edit

Tsdad: Great News! My daughter has been accepted at Rutgers (Engineering). We will be visiting in the next couple of weeks (this is a very busy time for her with prom, graduation, performances, school field trip to NYC, etc.). Do you have any specific thoughts on Rutgers? She is very excited!

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 09:35 am: Edit

I am sooooooo happy for your daughter. It all worked out! yay! So glad she will end the year in a happier frame of mind....all of which she deserves given the record and accomplishments you shared!
Celebrate!
Susan

By Morgantruce (Morgantruce) on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 10:04 am: Edit

I had many friends and relatives who went to Rutgers--they are all doing very well. I worked on the campus for a while for one of the department heads. While the layout of the campus is not the greatest, the educational opportunity is certainly right up there.

Years ago I also spent one very interesting weekend at Purdue and liked the campus and people I met.

I don't know how the two school's engineering departments stack up against each other in reality--rank wise or reputation wise--but my hunch is that Purdue gets the edge. If your research agrees with my hunch, you might wait a bit to hear from Purdue before sending the check to Rutgers.

I'm glad your daughter now has at least one option... maybe more will follow. I think everyone on on this board is relieved to hear that things are working out.

By Jenniferpa (Jenniferpa) on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 10:36 am: Edit

What great news. Well done all of you!

By Mike (Mike) on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 10:44 am: Edit

Glad your daughter has found a good college nocollege. After all the stress college apps bring there apears to be a place for everyone.

Mike's dad

By Anotherdad (Anotherdad) on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 10:44 am: Edit

Admin,
Certain threads, such as this one, deserve to be on a special site for future reference by everyone. This one, which worked through a problem to success, could benefit a great many people.
AD

By Hautbois (Hautbois) on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 11:30 am: Edit

Nocollege ... time to change your name, eh? A hearty congratulations to your daughter, and to you as well. I hope you all can take some time to celebrate!

By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 11:35 am: Edit

Congratulations - Rutgers is a good school. I'm so relieved for your daughter so I can just imagine how YOU must feel! Check back next year and let us know how she's doing, OK?
Carolyn

By Sluggbugg (Sluggbugg) on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 01:16 pm: Edit

Nocollege, you guys have worked soooo hard for this! Congrats & enjoy the victory! You're going to have to change your screen name, now.

Wouldn't it be something if she got an offer from Purdue, as well? Talk about a rollercoaster! In a month, she'll have gone from zero acceptances to choosing between Rutgers and Purdue.

Btw, I believe that positive change doesn't happen unless individuals do something to counter the status quo. It's often the accumulation of individual efforts that creates the momentum for a lasting effect.

Next year, some other kid at your daughter's h/s will be in the same boat. There will be a kid who deserves to be accepted to college who will instead experience the profound disappointment that you've been through this year.

Write up your experience in a letter to the principal at your dd's high school, and cc a copy to the head of the counseling department and to the superintendent of your school district. Shine a light on exactly how you think your dd's counselor did not provide her with guidance during her college application process. What specific things could have been done differently (by you guys and by the school)? What could the counseling department have done differently to provide more information to parents and students regarding the college app process?

They won't be receptive to a parent bitch letter about that particular counselor, but they may be interested in making a couple of changes if you can come up with specific suggestions on how the counseling department as a whole can help other kids and parents avoid coming up shorthanded. Perhaps, they need to have a meeting at the end of junior year for all of the junior parents to talk about stretch and safeties. Our h/s promotes meetings like this through monthly parent newsletters.

There was a thread on this board a while back started by a mom who was going to gather up suggestions and present them at a parent meeting at her kids' high school. It does seem like there is a definite need for specific info early on.

I think that somebody at your daughter's high school is interested in hearing about your experience. But, no one will hear about it unless you put it in writing and send it to the right people.

Congrats, again!

By Tsdad (Tsdad) on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 02:42 pm: Edit

Way to go.

Rutgers is located on the edge of downtown New Brunswick, which is in better shape now then when I was there in the 1960s. The best thing about NB is that you can walk to the bus or a train from campus and be in NYC in an hour.

There are actually multiple Rutgers campuses in NB: Douglas (the women's school), Rutgers College (where I went); Livingston (up on the old Camp Kilmer location), and the agricultural school located by Douglas.

To me, the nicest looking part of the campus is on Rutgers College where the oldest buildings on campus located. Especially handsome is the Old Queens building from 180? something.

When you walk around campus notice the large number of Dutch names on the buildings. Rutgers was founded as Queens College in 1766 (Kings College became Columbia) to train clergy for the Dutch Reform Church, which was experiencing substantial growth in the 18th century as part of the Great Awakening. There's even a statute of William of Orange on campus know as Willie the Silent. In the days when we used to play Princeton in football, Willie often wound up with a coat of orange paint. The University's motto is based on the University of Utrecht’s and means something like "Let the Sun Shine on the West Also." I can't believe that I remember this stuff, but I was trained as an historian. One of the best teachers when I was there was also the university historian and the father of the current president of Rutgers.

In the 1960s they built a bunch of really ugly buildings, mostly dorms. They are not very nice. However, there are three dorms (Frelinghusyen, Livingston, and one other--see what I mean about the Dutch names) built right next to the Raritan River, which runs along side the campus. We used to stand out on the balconies and watch the crew races on the river. Unfortunately, the 19th century canal next to the river has been turned into a four-lane highway.

I hope you and your daughter like RU. I'm happy that things have worked out for you.

By Wobudong (Wobudong) on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 08:46 pm: Edit

If you are from NJ your daughter's credentials should qualify her for a merit scholarship at Rutgers. It's part of the keep the smart kids in Joisy program. For anyone else in that 1400 range interested in quality safe schools for engineering, check out Bucknell, a first class, albeit expensive, college in a beautiful setting.

By the way, Rutgers has a superb undergrad neurosciences program, cutting edge biotechnology for undergrads and very good bioengineering. Your daughter will be in the top quartile statswise and is likely to excel, which means you probably should start saving for grad school.

By Ariesathena (Ariesathena) on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 03:50 pm: Edit

SoozieVT: sorry that it took a while to respond. Graduation was on Sunday.

In response to the legacy issue: my grandfather recently retired from the Board of Trustees. When I was looking at schools, he was still very active at Tufts. I met with Dean Cuttino personally, who inquired about my stats and interviewed me. Afterwards, he told my grandfather that I was exactly the kind of student they wanted and, given the legacy status, would make sure that nothing went wrong in admissions. I realize that my situation is extremely rare; however, given it, Tufts was my safety. After Harvard and MIT turned me down, I went... and Sunday was quite a sad day. Thank you for your wishes. Also, yes, I did love it!!! Everyone that I talk to who went, whether recently or years ago, loved Tufts. Good luck to your daughter.

By Elleneast (Elleneast) on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 04:29 pm: Edit

On the banks of the old Raritan (my friends)
Where old Rutgers evermore shall stand,
For has she not stood
Since the time of the flood,
On the banks of the old Raritan.


Go Rutgers!
Congratulations and best wishes.

By Cornellian07 (Cornellian07) on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 06:21 pm: Edit

I have a friend in the same situation. He had a 1600 SAT, and was not accepted anywhere!!! The only school that even WAITLISTED him was UMich- Ann Arbor. He applied rolling to Rutgers and also will end up there next year, and will try to transfer from there. Luckily, he is in-state, so Rutgers will probably be very cheap for him, plus the fact that his perfect SAT will probably get him a nice big scholarship there. So your daughter is NOT alone in her situation.

By Tsdad (Tsdad) on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 07:04 pm: Edit

Ellen:

Haven't heard that song in a loooong time. I'll spare the readers the RU Rah Rah cheer. Boy is it stupid. Do they still do it or was it a product of the male-only days of Rutgers and was dumped when Rutgers went coed?

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 12:32 am: Edit

To Ariesathena....First, many congratulations on your graduation from Tufts! I am sure it was hard to have it all come to an end. Your hard work paid off and I hope you had a lot of fun along the way. But it is also a new beginning for you, a new stage of life...and I wish you the best as you embark on new endeavors and I hope all your dreams are fulfilled! What was your major?

Thanks for explaining your admissions circumstances. I now understand why you said that you felt your legacy could be counted on and why therefore, Tufts was a safety for you. While my kid is a legacy there too, it should help her a bit but I will not count on it as a guarantee, nor see it as a safety school. I think it is more of a target and the way things seem to be going lately, there sure is no sure thing! I would only have my child apply there if she were interested and she actually is! I think she would fit in great there and it is a good match for who she is. It was weird to go back and look at the college as a parent of a prospective student! I loved going to Tufts as it was my first choice school. I met my hubby there at the start of my freshman year, though he is older. He loved it too and it had been his first choice school as well. Whenever we are in Boston, we like to drive by Tufts for memory's sake and see the changes too. This past fall though I did the whole tour and all that stuff....went into dorms, was weird to be back in this capacity. It was even weird to sit in on the info. session after doing the alumni interviews for years.....I could now see it all from the applicants' point of view!

Btw, do you know anyone who majored in architecture at Tufts? That is what my daughter wants to go into. Also, am curious which ECs you participated in at Tufts if you do not mind telling.

Thanks for posting and continued success to you!
Susan

By Ariesathena (Ariesathena) on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 07:29 pm: Edit

Susan:
Thank you for your well-wishes again! My majors were chemical engineering and classics, which I am very happy Tufts allowed me to do. I'm working in an engineering firm now, and there is a programme at MIT for materials archaeology which I'm looking in to.

You aren't the first person I've heard of who married another Tufts student; a surgeon met her husband there when she and her girlfriends made a bet to see who could flirt more. He proposed to her on the library roof, which I'm sure you saw on your tour.

I'm glad that your daughter is thinking about Tufts! If she goes there, she'll love it as much as you and your husband did - that has not changed through the years! Wish her luck for me in getting in - as you know, it is getting quite difficult these days!

I know a woman who is majoring in architecture at Tufts (going into her junior year). However, as an engineer, I don't know much about the programme.

At Tufts, I ran track for a bit but was unable to compete (and eventually participate at all) due to medical problems. Also, I wrote and worked on one of the poetry magazines, Optimus Prime. The Society of Women Engineers let me know about a science club for girls after school programme in Cambridge, which I did for four years. (Basically, it involved going to the school every Friday and teaching them different science concepts.)

It sounds like you've enjoyed doing alumni interviews, which I'm trying to get involved with now. Feel free to email me if you would like. Thank you for your encouragement!
Bridget

By Elleneast (Elleneast) on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 09:43 pm: Edit

Tsdad,

My knowledge of anything Rutgers related is based on having married the son of a Rutgers grad who was a rabid follower of the basketball and football teams. My husband spent a great deal of time at Rutgers sporting events as a young boy so I have heard the fight song many times. I don't know if they sing the song these days.

By Kristilynn (Kristilynn) on Saturday, June 05, 2004 - 06:08 pm: Edit

Well I can tell you all first hand there's an openning at Colby...I got in but there's no way I can pay for it (never was able to finish the financial aid forms for them). Looks like UCONN (the oh so wonderful state school) for the salutatorian of the class. At least it's a good state school anyways, and they have great facilities for chemistry (which is what I'm going for) and I have the advantage of the honors program, so I guess I've got nothing to lose...(even though the facilities at Colby were as good if not better with a much smaller more inviting campus...) still depressing... I LOVED Colby. I'm looking into transfer opportunities for later on...I might be able to get financial aid next year.

~Kristi-Lynn~