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I am curious about this. My older son who is a college freshman has known his career since he was about 8 yrs. old so the college process was relatively simple since only a few schools had the best department for him. From the very first encounter he had with an admissions rep at a local College Fair, through visiting the head of the department at the colleges he was considering(and talking very indepth to them about the program at their school), through his application, recs, etc. the focus was always about his passion in his field. He was able to talk to profs he met with intelligently about what he was looking for, ask great questions because the answers were crucial to his decision of whether he was interested in the school. It was in a way like he was interviewing them to find out if the program suited him.I know it made a very big impression on the admissions person at the Fair, meeting my son, and seeing his knowledge and passion for his field and his interest in their school.

My son who is a junior has absolutely no idea what he will major in. This Sunday we are going to a college Fair locally, for a school he likes a lot.

What do you think - should he make up a major so he has something of academic interest/substance to talk about when he meets the admissions person? Don't you think a prospective student will make a lot better impression if they tell him/her what they are interested in?

Is it enough for my son to express excitement in their school because he loves where it is, the size, the sports, the reputation it has academically without talking to them about what he is intersted in studying there? If he is asked what he will be studying or what he is interested in and he shrugs his shoulders and says he is not sure yet - isn't that a turnoff to admissions?

Please set me straight. I know my experience with my older son was probably unusual but I cannot get beyond thinking that it seems like a real disadvantage to not clearly define your interest in the admissions process. So - should he make a major up and proceed with it through the process?

By Dadx (Dadx) on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 08:06 am: Edit

It's not a particular disadvantage, in my opinion. Admissions people know full well that rarely do students have a clear idea of what field they intend to study.

Trying to "fake it" will only make him seem uninformed if the discussion becomes deeper than expected.

By Rhonda63 (Rhonda63) on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 09:19 am: Edit

I also do not think it is a disadvantage. And no, he should not make up a major in order to impress people.

However, if there are particular fields he is even slightly interested in, he may want to think a bit about them before doing interviews, etc. Then at least he has a better answer than "I don't know" when asked what he is interested in.

I know a kid who was good at pretty much every subject, didn't know what he wanted to do. His answer was something along the lines of "I'm interested in so many things all of them seem great." I think that's perfectly acceptable, and it would help if you can follow up w/some examples of the various things you're interested in.

By Editrix (Editrix) on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 09:33 am: Edit

I agree that it's far better to have an undeclared major than to make one up. Unless there's a long-documented passion for the subject, smart adcoms don't take those declarations all that seriously, since a huge number of kids change their minds while in college. And declaring a major in a subject in which one has not demonstrated particular interest or ability can actually backfire: For example, I've known kids who put down Economics or Engineering as their intended majors, because they sincerely believed they'd be interested in those fields--and then had the adcoms wonder why they hadn't done much with those subjects in high school.

By Judy (Judy) on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 09:51 am: Edit

Rhonda - I love that line "I'm interested in so many things all of them seem great." It is true. My son has thought about journalism, law, psych, business, but they have just been merely thoughts. I certainly understand not knowing - I never knew what I wanted to do even when I got out of college.

So when a kid who visits schools, being undecided, they would not meet with any department, correct?

By Rhonda63 (Rhonda63) on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 10:00 am: Edit

Judy -- I think it is important to keep in mind that being "undecided" doesn't mean that you're not interested in anything, but rather, as you point out, it could mean you're interested in many things!

I think you could certainly meet w/a department if you're undecided -- perhaps with several. I would just make sure you have questions to ask of the prof you meet with, so it's not a waste of his/her and your time. Perhaps you could say that [your dept] is one i'm thinking about majoring in, and i wanted to find out more about [fill in the blank w/specifics].

By Alongfortheride (Alongfortheride) on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 10:08 am: Edit

>>>And declaring a major in a subject in which one has not demonstrated particular interest or ability can actually backfire: For example, I've known kids who put down Economics or Engineering as their intended majors, because they sincerely believed they'd be interested in those fields--and then had the adcoms wonder why they hadn't done much with those subjects in high school.

Editrix, we heard that from adcoms quite often. It doesn't hold true for the state schools here in Texas because of the 10% rule, but for all of the privates we dealt with, that was the recurring theme. They said they had no indication that a student who avoided math and science in high school would be a successful engineering student. Even if they are capable of the work but avoided those classes to raise their GPA, they are considered unprepared to pursue engineering coursework at the college level.

I think that the course offerings at your son's high school could also play into the conversation. An undeclared major, but interest in areas that he has the coursework to back up is good. However, if he is really interested in Medieval History or particular aspects of any other subject that his school does not offer coursework in , I think that would also be ok as long as he has read up on it on his own and is familiar enough with the departmental offerings at the college that he can ask informed questions. Otherwise, I agree with Dadx. Faking it could do more harm than good.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 10:55 am: Edit

Of course it can be of great advantage if a kid has an in depth interest and experience in a particular subject. Though it depends on the school, subject and the depth of knowledge. Johns Hopkins have kids who know all about being premed and are set on becoming doctors, and they can just join the long line of premed applicants they get each year. MIT gets enough engineering majors that you have to be pretty spectacular to get their attention just by knowing the field and having interest in it. On the other hand, in fields that are underrepresented, a strong interest and work that represents a commitment to the subject area is going to be something favorable. A humanities major at a tech school will generate much more interest than at a school where more than half the applicants are that particular major. Another psych or poli sci major is just not going to turn anyone's head unless there is something else spectacular about the student.

Most kids are unsure about their major and will change it once they are at college. Adcoms are well aware of this as they see it each year. I ususally suggest to kids who are "unknown" in choice of major to indicate several areas where they may be interested rather than just "undecided" though colleges say they do not penalize for an "undecided" student. I just think it gives a little more info, and leaves more room for discussion to say you are interested in say, psychology, theatre and speech.

A passion and directed interest in any field that the college likes or wants can always be a major hook or at least a "Tip" factor for a college. But that just is not the situation for most applicants.

By Alwaysamom (Alwaysamom) on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 11:10 am: Edit

Judy, I think your S2's situation is much more the norm than your S1. Most kids will not choose a major until their sophomore year, or at least, the end of freshman year. I don't think that it's a disadvantage in any way to declare yourself undecided. As Jamimom says, even kids who declare a major going in, often change their minds while in college. Meeting these individuals at college fairs is really just the beginning for most students. I know several people who have participated in these fairs (from the college side) and frankly, in most instances, the people who speak to the kids will not remember specifics about most kids. It's more of an introductory session than anything. When you're more likely to 'need' to be able to intelligently discuss the colleges and your desire to attend, is when you actually visit and if you have a personal visit with an adcom or someone in a particular department.

Having said all that, I will say that sometimes it DOES make a difference whether you are in a position to declare a major at the beginning of the application process. My D2 is at NYU. The set-up there, as at some other colleges, is that there are seven main separate colleges which make up the university. You can only apply to one college and they offer very different majors and education experiences. Even there, though, if you are undecided, they recommend that you apply to the College of Arts and Science as undecided. However, if admitted to CAS you would not, for instance, be able to study business or education or theatre because those are offered in other NYU colleges.

I agree with the others that it would be a mistake to 'make up' a major. It won't hurt him, in most instances, to be undecided. Truth be told, I would bet that most kids are undecided. It's probably a good time for him to start thinking about what might interest him, perhaps perusing college websites which offer course descriptions. Sooner or later, he will have to choose courses whether he's decided on a major or not and it never hurts to start looking.

By Marite (Marite) on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 11:15 am: Edit

I think it is fine to declare interest in a very broad area such as "humanities" or "social sciences." An interest in "what makes people tick" could lead to a major in history, literature, anthropology, sociology, psychology, political science. These are areas that are not often introduced in high school, and colleges do not expect students to know what they are about except in the vaguest of terms.

By Cangel (Cangel) on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 11:18 am: Edit

In order to answer the "Why this college" question in applications and interviews, my daughter whose interests are all over the board, has concentrated on types of colleges that appealed to her, then one or two programs or courses of study that were particular to each school that she would like to pursue.

I know this isn't quite what you were asking, but I heard the implied question, "if one doesn't have a specific passion, how do you show interest?"

The other replies are right on - the occasional student, like your older son, who has a definite goal or passion should be helped in admissions by that passion, but manufacturing an interest won't work, and may backfire. I'm describing approaching the problem a little differently, interest in types of schools won't give a true hook, but it will reassure an adcom that you are serious about their school, and thoughtful about your education. Who knows, maybe her interest in the molecular biology program at school X or the study abroad at school Y might be expressed right after the reader got an appeal from the biology dept for more majors, or the classics dept for someone to fill out their trips.

By Editrix (Editrix) on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 11:22 am: Edit

So when a kid who visits schools, being undecided, they would not meet with any department, correct?

I think your son should use college visits as a genuine opportunity to see which schools seem a good fit for him, which might or might not include visiting specific departments. Either way, the purpose is for him to help him decide--and possibly to get some specifics about the school that will be useful in filling out applications, going on interviews, etc. If he doesn't genuinely have something to talk about with department heads, I wouldn't bother; it's more likely to make the heads feel that someone has been wasting their time than to impress the adcoms.

By Marite (Marite) on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 11:33 am: Edit

Most students do not contact specific profs or department chairs. They may, however, sit in on classes. Students who do set up meetings usually have some very specific questions about course selection, a particular program, access to some resources (especially important for students in the arts).

By Thumper1 (Thumper1) on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 05:30 pm: Edit

Judy, We are in the same boat as you. DS was very sure about his college major (music performance). It made his search very easy and very focused. DD, on the other hand, has many interests. She would like to continue music pursuits, but may not major in a music related field. She loves and is great in math and science, and will look at audioengineering, music technology and the like. But the reality is that she is undecided. She does have other firm criteria...school size that is managable but not too small, proximity and easy access to a city, and a warm cluimate...and being able to play her oboe and study oboe even if she doesn't major in music. It's better than no criteria! We have gone on college visits already and she has met with adcoms in the admissions offices in all places which has been helpful.

By Chasgoose (Chasgoose) on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 06:14 pm: Edit

I remember interviewers and admissions officers I spoke with being more impressed than anything else when I admitted that I have no idea what I want to study and that my academic interests were all over the place.

By Judy (Judy) on Saturday, October 09, 2004 - 08:50 am: Edit

This discussion has been really helpful, thanks.
Chasgoose: In what way do you remember the adm officers "being more impressed than anything else" when you admitted you had no idea what you wanted to study. Did they comment to you about it?

Also, Alwaysamom: It is interesting that you say most college reps who are at the fairs "do not remember the specifics about most kids." This is one of my very points. First of all, I was told by admissions that the person who will be doing the fair tomorrow is this region's adcom and he/she will actually be the one who follows these kids through the application process, including reading their apps, doing interviews,etc. So - if a kid comes across with enthusiasm and passion about his interests and why the kid believes their school is such a good potential fit, I can only think that the adm person will most definitely remember this kid. It leaves an impression and since most kids don't speak of their interests in a focused way like that, then it probably makes them stand out even more. If a kid makes a solid impression at one of these fairs and follows up to them with an email afterwards and continues to stay in touch - how could it not set them apart from everyone else?

On the side - my son is looking to go to school in a different part of the country,so if this rep is recruiting in a sense from this geographic area then impressions again, are important I would think.

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Saturday, October 09, 2004 - 09:19 am: Edit

" So - if a kid comes across with enthusiasm and passion about his interests and why the kid believes their school is such a good potential fit, I can only think that the adm person will most definitely remember this kid. It leaves an impression and since most kids don't speak of their interests in a focused way like that, then it probably makes them stand out even more."

Sure, but the interests don't need to be specific. For instance, my son is very interested in creative writing, psychology and engineering, and can speak with enthusiasm about all of those areas. He also has been doing EC things to find out more about all of those interests. He anticipates that eventually, he'll pick one of those areas to major in, so he wants a college that would offer good options in all 3 areas.

If he were to visit a college, depending on the time we had, he'd probably want to visit a class or talk to a professor in as many of those 3 areas as was possible. Just because he's undecided doesn't mean he has no interests.

It would be an unusual h.s. student who had absolutely no clue about what academic area they might want to pursue in college. Surely, the student would have had a favorite h.s. subject and might be vaguely considering majoring in that field.

That doesn't mean that it would be a clear passion, just something for the student to look into on a college campus.

A student who told a recruiter at a college fair that they were undecided because they had lacked interest in all of their h.s. subjects would not seem a good candidate for a 4-year college.

By Alwaysamom (Alwaysamom) on Saturday, October 09, 2004 - 11:26 am: Edit

Judy, it may very well be the case that the individual there is your regional rep. You should inquire exactly what this means. At many colleges, a regional rep may be responsible for applicants from several states, hundreds and sometimes thousands of applicants. At these fairs, which are usually a stop on a tour of a huge geographic area, they meet, again, hundreds of students. It's not just the kids who are extremely interested who speak to these individuals. If it's a small fair and only at your school, and the student spoke to the rep and made a huge impression, then perhaps they'd remember. I've been to several of these college fairs and I've seen very few of these reps take down specific information about students to whom they speak. They usually ask you to fill out a postcard type form and leave it with them in order for the school to send you further information. Discussions at these fairs, from my experience, is usually informal and fairly short. These are not in depth discussions about a particular student's desires or areas of interest, in most cases. There are simply too many people there and it wouldn't be fair for one person to monopolize the reps' time to that extent. I'm not saying that a rep wouldn't remember a particular student if something happened to stand out but I think this is rather rare from what I've heard from friends of mine who work in Admissions Offices. At a small college, perhaps, but if it's at a school where the number of applicants is in the thousands, it's unlikely that when reviewing applications, the rep would remember a student. I'm not saying it doesn't EVER happen, it's just what my adcom friends have told me about their experiences.

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Saturday, October 09, 2004 - 11:43 am: Edit

From what I have personally seen, adcoms can remember students if the students happen to fit the profile of students whom the colleges are truly desperate to recruit.

For instance, S last year talked at a college fair to a recruiter from a college that had great interest in increasing its African Americans. This is a college that had fewer than 1% African American students, and has a hard time recruiting black students because of its curriculum and lack of major sports.

The recruiter clearly was delighted to see a black student with strong academic credentials expressing interest in the college, and the recruiter took down info on S, and even helped S participate in a program at the school.

By Judy (Judy) on Saturday, October 09, 2004 - 05:04 pm: Edit

Northstarmom - how did you and your son know what the profile was of the student this particular college was looking to recruit? Is that a question that could be asked to them?

By the way, what we are going to tomorrow is not a college fair that lots and lots of colleges are set up at, this is going to be just this one college with their regional rep, who I was told follows these students from our geographic area throughout the process. I have no idea how well attended it will be - this is a Southern university in the Northeast.