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I have always been impressed by the great number of ECs on the resumes of so many students here. With my daughter adjusting to her new life as a high school freshman, though, my admiration turns into real curiosity about HOW exactly they do it. My daughter is enrolled in four honors classes, Spanish II, and gym. She runs cross country, which means she doesn't get home until almost six. She does homework for most of the rest of the night. Even if she had more time, her cross country commitment made it impossible for her to explore other clubs and sports. Many of them have already started, with mandatory meetings or auditions or such like -- for example, she loves theater and dance but missed the fall audtions due to her running commitment. She also swims, but that sport conflicts with running for girls.
When the running season ends, I suppose she could conceivably join a club or write for the paper, but her homework load is really heavy -- and it's not that long before indoor track season.
She will never be a running star, I don't think, though she may make varsity some year -- not this year or next, I don't think. But she loves to run and loves her teammates.
I don't see any of this as a problem exactly, and we are not into building a potential Ivy admissions resume, but given our own experiences so far, I simply do not understand how your students do it.
Any comments?

By Mstee (Mstee) on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 06:36 pm: Edit

I only personally know a few kids who can do it all and pull it off! It helps if the school schedule supports the activities. For instance, one kid I know who sang, played in orchestra, did tennis and swimming and the school musical was able to do it because the musical practices were at night, after sports, so they didn't conflict. Orchestra at the school she attended meets at 7:00 am. She was a good student, and has a nice personality too--she ended up at UCLA. I'm sure that she probably had very efficient study skills, and since the high school she attended is not an academic power house, that probably helped too. Also, I imagine these kids don't need as much sleep as the average teen.

My own 15 year old, OTOH, is doing cross country and a few clubs, and that is it. If she gets a part in the spring musical, she'll have to drop swimming, since they rehearse/practice at the same time. Which is okay, because I don't think she could handle doing both anyway (though I hate to see the swimming go--she is not great at it, but having some sort of physical activity is so beneficial). The clubs she is in meet in some sort of free period they have at school. And she picked three clubs run by the same teacher, because she knew they would never conflict with each other because of that! Another club which she may join next year or her senior year, the mathletes, does not require much other than being good at math and going to a few competitions on Saturdays, so it is not really time consuming. Oh yeah, she does play in a small orchestra once a week in the evening (forgot about that). So, that is an example of a kid who is not a super star fitting in a nice blend of activities along with doing fine academically (A's and B's). And the activities she participates in are not for resume building, she does what she pleases! And no, I don't see her headed to the Ivy League. Right now I'm thinking St. Olaf, Grinnell and schools like that. . .

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 06:36 pm: Edit

" She runs cross country, which means she doesn't get home until almost six. She does homework for most of the rest of the night.?

Why would she need any more ECs? Doing any sport is a major commitment. The top colleges are looking for quality, not quantity.

Also many students who posts lists of activities are not doing anything in depth. The activities are just resume dressing. Being a club member or holding an office that has no function do not impress colleges.

By Voronwe (Voronwe) on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 05:54 am: Edit

My kids have also done three seasons of sports, yet managed to do quite a lot besides. Son was an Eagle Scout and Senior Patrol Leader - this was YEARS of monthly trips and weekly meetings. One daughter was always in theater - she brought her homework with her evenings and did it when she wasn't on stage. Another daughter did ballet and was in many performances. All kids had lots of volunteer work (hundreds of hours apiece) - much done on weekends and during the summer. Not one of them - and I mean this very seriously - had any "resume padding" - that is, they never joined things they weren't truly involved in.

Summers are always amazing - learning new sports like sailing, volunteering, spending some time on research, and a LOT of time just having mindless fun!

In fact, all were deeply involved in so many things that they left most of them off the college application. They each concentrated on the (approx) three things they loved best, were most deeply committed to, and which truly showed a level of achievment that was commensurate with the passion they had for the activity. The older two never mentioned their many, many hours in the local soup kitchen, nor their peer counseling work, etc.


All the kids took all Honors and AP courses - 2 graduated in top 2% of class (one has not graduated yet).

I will admit there were quite a few nights when a child was up past midnight finishing a project, but they loved their work, school, and commitments.

I wouldn't compare your kid to anyone else's. Everyone is different in their level of everything from motivation to commitment to just plain energy - being able to do a lot. As for me, I want ten hours of sleep a night!!

By 3togo (3togo) on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 09:08 am: Edit

great question ... I often wonder how the ECs lists are viewed by folks working in admissions at major schools ... hopefully they know how to put the ECs in context and get a picture of the spplicant.

After being on CC for a few months it seems the EC lists fall into a few categories. 1) Some kids have fairly short lists but showing a lot of focus ... for example, if your daughter runs cross country, indoor track, and outdoor track she shows time and commitment to one EC but it is hard to have a ton of other ECs but some others can be fit in. 2) Some kids show focus but their list is longer with lots of differing activiites in their area of focus ... a lot of musicians seem to be in this group ... they may be in multiple bands and county and state level groups ... this probably is a similar time commitment as the group 1) folks but shows a much longer list 3) Some kids walk on water and have high-time-commitment ECs like sports or music as well as class offices, some arts stuff, and academic stuff ... but there are not a lot of kids like this. 4) Some kids have long lists of academic based groups and activities ... showing their commitment to learning and an overall time commitment but probably in lots of smaller chunks ... I would think it is harder to get a good read on how much time or commitment these students have shown ... I also wonder if the adcom people wonder about what these students would bring to their school beyond academics . 5) Some kids have a long list of ecclectic ECs ... is seems to me this would be by far the hardest set of ECs to get an accurate handle on.

Punch line to all that ... when I read the EC lists on CC I try to play adcom and figure out what I think this student would bring to my school ... and if anything the shorter EC lists seem to do this better for me (full disclaimer: I was a jock in HS so my opinion may be biased)

By Voronwe (Voronwe) on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 10:20 am: Edit

As I've said before,I was an Ivy interviewer for quite awhile. I don't believe interviews have THAT much influence - in fact they probably have little to middling -----unless they are negative. In ranking students 1-9, if I ranked someone very, very low (like a 2 or 3), they NEVER got in, and I often got asked for more details.

I always gave rock-bottom scores to those who students who had a huge laundry list of ECS which they could not back up by ANY measureable achievement or even much participation. I even had kids tell me that they joined a certain group "because it would look good on my college application!!!"

By Rhonda63 (Rhonda63) on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 12:46 pm: Edit

Another thing to keep in mind that not all activities run all year. So kids can run XC, be in the school musical, etc, because none of those things last more than a few months, and they're not doing all of them at the same time.

By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 01:01 pm: Edit

My daughter also has found she can't do it all...and, in fact, doesn't want to. Her list of extra curriculars is paltry by the standards of many CC posters but she does have to eat, sleep, study and commute 45 minutes each way to school. She's involved with two clubs that meet at lunch, rides her horse 5-10 hours a week, does some annual community service, and spends a fair amount of her limited free time working on her art.

I have decided not to worry too much about this --- she understands that not participating in more may limit some of her college choices but she's fine with that. If she's happy, I guess I have to be happy.

Kids who are motivated to do amazing amounts of ec's will find a way on their own to fit them all in (I suspect my son, a freshman, is going to be more like this). Many kids, however, will make choices about how they want to spend their time that don't always include tons of EC's. I honestly don't think it's the end of the world.

By Jnm123 (Jnm123) on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 01:25 pm: Edit

A big factor that D found out with multiple concurrent EC's is the communication between the various teachers and/or coaches. Most of them feel their activity is absolutely critical, putting D in a box that shouldn't have happened in her sophomore year of having to negotiate time with both of them, and as a result she made neither happy.

Unfortunately, it was necessary for last year & this year for D to scale back somewhat on EC's, and as it turned out it's much less stressful for her.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 03:25 pm: Edit

Jnm, That is SO true where we are as well with the teachers and coaches of the kids' extracurriculars. Each of these folks indeeds feels that their activity is critical and takes precedent over anything else going on in the child's life. Conflicts in their lives are bound to arise, often for very legit reasons and these are often not understood by some hard core folks who forget they are still children with lives. I do not look forward to their reactions when my kid has to travel to her 8 colleges to audition. It is not as if it is inappropriate to put getting into college as a priority.


Susan

By Jrpar (Jrpar) on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 04:17 pm: Edit

I've also been amazed to see the EC's many kids list on this site. My older son has played sports all the way through HS, and particularly at the varsity level, it is nearly impossible to do very much beyond this. Varsity sports is an all-consuming interest. There is little to no flexibility on this commitment - if you are on the team and want to play, you must be there for all practices (whenever scheduled) and games, and it is expected to be your first priority. Miss a practice, you'll be benched. He loves sports so this commitment comes easily to him. He's been able to do some other EC's during the school day (fortunately the newspaper is scheduled then), and he volunteers when able for community service, but really there aren't that many hours in the day. He gets home from practice at 6:30 to 7:00, eats dinner, and then has the homework associated with a rigorous course load. I hope colleges understand this.

By Kiddielit (Kiddielit) on Saturday, October 09, 2004 - 09:47 am: Edit

Thanks to everyone who responded. I never really thought of this as a problem for my daughter -- I really am bemused by the amount of energy and presumably less need for sleep that some of these kids must have. I wonder too if personality temperaments don't play into this. I'm not a big Meyers-Briggs person, but Americans certainly seem to value the go-getter, outgoing, always doing kind of personality. I know I need lots of down time and quiet time, to read and stare out the window, and jot down notes, and to walk the dog. I have often felt that I don't quite live up to the suburban mom ideal of running twelve committees while owning my own business and decorating my home for every holiday!

By Kiddielit (Kiddielit) on Saturday, October 09, 2004 - 09:59 am: Edit

And just to clarify one more thing about my daughter -- she's very social and would probably over commit to things but needs to focus to actually do things well. She's also finally learning to actually work and study for her A's as middle school was less than challenging for her.

By Momofthree (Momofthree) on Saturday, October 09, 2004 - 10:09 am: Edit

I appreciate your comment, Kiddielit, as my S is a more contemplative kid in a rushed world. He does fit a tremendous amount into one day, doing three sports, musical theater, and a number of activiites associated with our church. I think what happens is that a "big crash" comes every two weeks or so when he comes home and sleeps for fourteen hours straight. I think the trickiest thing for me is to know that he hopes to have a break from this kind of stress when he GETS to college. It is a reality that the places he is working hard to attend will have pretty high expectations that he continue his present work ethic. I also wonder if he will really know how to slow down.

By Fredo (Fredo) on Saturday, October 09, 2004 - 01:42 pm: Edit

I'm an alumni interviewer also (for Duke). One of the first kids I ever interviewed walked in with a FOUR page resume. It just boggled my mind. I also view an extended list of EC's somewhat skeptically, looking to find the one that a student is truly interested in and sometimes it's hard to find in the laundry list.

Carolyn - I love your approach to your daughter and her EC's. I have a soph son who has virtually no EC's except for golf. No clubs, no church, no community service (although that will change next year as he's going to work with Special Olympics golf), no music, no drama, no newspaper/yearbook, nada, zilch, nothing. Unless you count poker (I wish!). I've encouraged, begged, threatened, you name it to get him to join a club that he's interested in but nothing grabs him. He also understands that that might hurt him come college admissions time but he really doesn't care that much. He's a very laid back kid which, in the long run of life, is going to be a good thing.

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Saturday, October 09, 2004 - 01:47 pm: Edit

I don't see anything wrong with a kid doing "just" one EC like golf. Typically, too, when kids are on teams they also do some community service related to the teams, and they may do summer programs related to the teams.

All of that does take time, and shows passion and commitment. If I had a kid in a sport, I wouldn't be encouraging them to do anything else. Doing a sport is plenty. If the kid wanted to do more, and could keep up their grades, that would be fine, too, but it wouldn't be anything that I'd require or encourage. It's also not something that students would need to do to get into a competitive college.

By Arizonamom (Arizonamom) on Saturday, October 09, 2004 - 01:49 pm: Edit

Freshman and sphomore year I worried about leadership vs lists of clubs and lamented my kids would never get into college. As a freshman it is good to just get adjusted to a new environment and have fun. Interests will be sparked and leadership will emerge. My kids both ended up being team captains their senior years-never would have predicted it as a freshman. They ran for student council in their upper years and on and on. It was not forced it just happened as their intersts expanded and they gained confidence to try out for leadership. Freshman year in high school and college is a time to breathe and get adjusted to this new world. My S who is a freshman in college now is not working first semester so he can get used to the expectations of college academics and doing a varsity sport in college.