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Hi. I am confused about the importance of the essay when the student excels academically.

My S is good in academics, goes to a very competitive school that emphasises depth in the coursework. Except for one course in one semester, all his grades have been As. SAT I is 1600. ACT is high 30s. Has done well on all the Math competitions and exams (AIME, etc). He has been working on a math research paper for over a year with a Univ. prof. He is in the top 10% if not top 5% of his class in this very competitive school. He is interested in pursuing a Math major, possibly C.S.(theory), and go on to grad school. However, S is not inclined to sit down and write 'creative' essays, or spend much time on them. Will this hurt his chances with respect to admission in say MIT, Stanford, WashU, Rice or UMich? What about chances for merit scholarships at places like UMich or WashU?

By Cyclingdad (Cyclingdad) on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 01:39 pm: Edit

I can't say how much a marginal essay might hurt ones chances, but my thought is that a very competitive school probably places a pretty high premium on writing. If it isn't teaching writing, I don't know how it's competitive. I know that my D's HS certainly emphasizes writing, knowing how important it is in college. Since your son has done so well in his HS, chances are he can write an essay. I don't know that it has to be so "creative." I think the colleges want to know that applicants have some basic writing skills, and want to hear the student's "voice". I'm being very general here, of course. There's a lot of essay help here on the various CC forums.

By Interesteddad (Interesteddad) on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 01:45 pm: Edit

>> Will this hurt his chances with respect to admission in say:

MIT: Yes it will hurt his chances. They get plenty of applicants like your son.

Stanford: Yes. See above.

Wash U: Probably won't hurt. I think WashU will value the SAT 1600 highly. Their marketing and merit-aid strategies suggest to me that they are statistically driven.

Rice: I don't know. Rice is the kind of school that values essays, but...

UMich: Could they even read essays from 24,943 applicants? A signficant portion of their incoming class is accepted or declined based solely on numeric formulas.

Overall advice: Blowing off the essays is a very, very risky thing to do. The essays are the place on the essay that give the student control over establishing an identity in the minds of the adcoms.

By the way, effective college essays don't necessarily have to be "creative". They have to be honest.

By Sgiovinc (Sgiovinc) on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 01:47 pm: Edit

My S with lesser SAT scores than yours wrote the worse essay I have ever read for MIT and he got in. His SAT scores were (unrevised though) V680 M780 in 1994. But all his SAT II's at the time in math and science were either 780 or 800 and he had AP Scholar with Distinction in his Junior year. I think scores for MIT are probably more important than your ability to write a creative essay. Have him apply..sounds like he is the type of kid they are looking for!! GOOD LUCK!

By Sgiovinc (Sgiovinc) on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 01:48 pm: Edit

By the way, he got into Stanford too with a different essay however....and Harvard with a different essay...all depends I suppose.

By Marite (Marite) on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 01:52 pm: Edit

2004 is a different era from 1994 in terms of admissions. It is even different from 2000. I don't recall such competition when my older S applied to colleges. At MIT, not only is the essay important, but so is the interview (see my report). Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Brown Chicago all put great importance on the essay. The only essay prompt that demands true creativity is probably Chicago's.

By Over30 (Over30) on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 02:13 pm: Edit

I agree with Marite. Work on the essays. Here is a link to an article about the process at MIT.
http://www-tech.mit.edu/V123/N64/64globeadm.64n.html

Do a google search for admissions information using "Marilee Jones" (the dean of MIT admissions) and you will find a lot of articles about the new focus at MIT. One of the essay questions wants to know what the student does for fun. You could probably do this for other schools as well and get some real information about what each school is looking for in an applicant.

At MIT the vast majority of the applicants will have similar stats. The student needs something besides academics and test scores to help them stand out, and I believe a great essay and interview can help do that.

By Sgiovinc (Sgiovinc) on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 02:30 pm: Edit

Marite:

You are probably right about the admssions now versus 1994. But I must admit that when my S interviewed for MIT he claimed the interviewer was an old man who had just gotten out of bed and his hair was all messed up. The interview was conducted in his unkempt house and he appeared depressed. On the other hand, when he was interviewed for HArvard, he was interviewed by "Jay Mathews" in Scarsdale, who at the time was writing for a NY magazine before going to the Wash Post. Needless to say, he made more of an effort to write a good essay for Harvard..not so much for MIT. My S used the interviews to determine which school was better for him based on the interviewer he met...not whether they liked him or not. Interestingly, he clicked with Jay MAthews and not with the MIT interviewer....whom he thought was boorish. You know,I do believe if the interview goes well, it is a result of a good fit with the type of people who go to that university and your child. And I also believe that the essays do reveal much about the type of person the university is looking for..not because you have a particularly good or bad writing style. Not everyone is going to be a creative, distinguished, or published writer nor should they be. That is why it makes no sense to have the essays written by someone other than the child themselves. You are shortchanging them of the opportunity to find out who they are...not who you want them to be. My S was perfect for HArvard and not for MIT...and the interview and essays mattered in that regard. I view both the interview and essays as a way for both child and university to find a good match. I could be wrong...but the same was true of my S who went to PENN. When he came home, he said, "That guy and I really hit it off! We had so much in common and understood each other." That was my first inkling that my second S could get into PENN even ranking a mere 10th in the class! His essay for PENN was truly amazing and I couldn't believe he could really write that well. It had alot of depth and some interesting perceptions of the PENN environs and lifestyle. Interestingly, he still lives in West Philly and works for the University there. Another one who found a great fit....more important than anything else.

By Marite (Marite) on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 02:59 pm: Edit

Sgiovinc:

I was actually surprised at how much importance the interview seems to have at MIT. Marilee Jones emphasized it several times in her presentation and in her chats with individual students. She also introduced several alumni interviewers in the audience.
Yesterday, by chance, my H had a long talk with a former colleague who turns out to have done alumni interviewing for Harvard for many years. The friend mentioned two students: one who was so shy that he wrote in his report that Harvard should contact her teachers to find out more about her. Another talked a blue streak. The shy student was admitted, the big talker was not.
As for essays: I do not mean that students should aim to produce the perfect literary gem, or exhibit wild creativity; but I and other posters wanted to emphasize the importance of not blowing off the essay. >>However, S is not inclined to sit down and write 'creative' essays, or spend much time on them.>> This is what I responded to. My S is actually getting a better sense of who he is as he writes different essays.

By Thoughtfulmom (Thoughtfulmom) on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 03:37 pm: Edit

My S is actually getting a better sense of who he is as he writes different essays.

Ah, yes, this brings back memories. I think that was true for my daughter as well.

Although I think only a masochist could actually enjoy writing college applications for the pure fun of it, looking back on the process with a year's perspective, I think the essay writing was a valuable exercise in thoughtful introspection.

My daughter's favorite essays were on the U of Chicago "Uncommon Application," but in the end I think all the essays she wrote were worthwhile endeavors.

The essays that ask the student "Why do you think XYZ college is right for you?" are really designed to get the student thinking hard about what XYZ has to offer and what s/he wants from an education.

Those are very good questions for a student to ask him or herself.

I don't think it's necessary for an application essay to be "a great work of literature" or a "masterpiece in creative writing." Moreover, I doubt that most admissions readers would have the critical literary background to recognize such a thing if they saw it!

I suspect that most efforts to be "brilliantly creative" fall flat on their face in any event.

Remind your son that the word "essay" comes from the French word for "to try," and that ultimately what the admissions readers are looking for is a student who sincerely *tries* to respond to the questions in a clear and thoughtful way.

(Just as an aside: I know of an AP US history teacher who gives his juniors an assignment to write "a college application essay for Abraham Lincoln.")

By Bookworm (Bookworm) on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 04:43 pm: Edit

Clearly, your S is quite capable of writing in a clear, grammatically correct manner (800V, all A's in English, etc). So, then I wonder if he's being lazy (doubt that, given his track record), or if he's scared to dive into the process. I've had friends who used professional consultants for these reasons. They'd meet to discuss ideas, then to edit. Both Ss had 1600s too, with good ECs. So much hung on the essays that they relaxed with help.
My S only had days to apply. He began writing in a forced way.i encouraged him to talk to me or a friend, focus on just a few points, and write clearly.The key was to remove the stress, because the questions were straightforward. By the way, he never has shown me all of his essays.

By Editrix (Editrix) on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 09:00 pm: Edit

"Essay vs academic excellence" seems an odd question, since they're not mutually exclusive. Your son sounds like an outstanding student, but outstanding schools get a lot of applicants who fit that description. While he doesn't have to (and probably shouldn't) force himself to come up with the most creative essay in the world, he should spend some time on it and do his best to convey a sense of his personality. It would be a shame if one of his top choices lost interest in him because he didn't seem to put a sincere effort into his essay.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 10:38 pm: Edit

InterestedDad, you indicated that UMich was numbers driven and essays likely not read. That may have been the method in the past but no more. As my daughter is readying to send her app out to Mich on Monday, I can tell you that there were three required essays, plus a short answer question. The materials indicate that the app will be read thoroughly by two different readers. That was just the regular app. On top of that, my D had to do an entire package to the school within UMich that she is applying to with a very specific comprehensive resume of various parts that I think may be seven pages long. It has not been simply numbers, let me tell you. That was all the required stuff. She happened to also write a statement about why she was graduating early and they actually did ask if you had any specific circumstances to explain regarding the academic portion. So, for her, there were four essays basically. I believe this is a recent change at UMich with the application process. It surely is way more than numbers. I think this application package she has had to do is almost more than my other D had to do for elite schools, except maybe Princeton which had five essays.


Susan

By Robyrm (Robyrm) on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 10:46 pm: Edit

The valedictorian at our school last year was accepted to Harvard, Stanford (EA) and Cambridge. He had the "whole thing going on". He wanted to get into MIT and didn't. I "debriefed" with our GC over this, since my son was thinking of applying to MIT with slightly less lofty credentials, and since I had previously done interviews for MIT(until my sons were seniors-it just seemed too much last year and this)..

This is a boy I knew well as many of his EC's overlapped with my son's. I had seen him in victory and defeat. I suspected, and was right, that he had written his essay about his unexpected defeat in his regional junior year forensics competition. I had watched his pain and coping from not too far..

The GC intimated that my suspicions were right on another account. This boy's technically perfect essay smacked of arrogance. The GC had indicated to the boy that he was concerned about this element of the essay, but the boy was either unable or unwilling to modify it.

My take...arrogance plays better in an essay at some schools than others. And, in the context of an otherwise exemplary applicant in a field of exemplay applicants ...the essay can make the difference!!

By Interesteddad (Interesteddad) on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 10:46 pm: Edit

Susan:

Suffice to say that the UMich admissions process has been under considerable scrutiny of late!

I have no doubt that they have gone overboard in requesting numerous essays and indicating how thoroughly they are studied -- all in the interest of proving that they take a "wholistic" view of each application and that race is only one of many factors considered. Who can blame them?

I am still skeptical about the reality of the process. They probably have some undergrad interns skimming essays for the bulk of the applicants. We are talking about 100,000 essays and short answers, each of which is allegedly read by at least two different people?

By Marite (Marite) on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 10:52 pm: Edit

Roby:

Interesting anecdote. One point that Marilee Jones made at the info session is that MIT likes people who take risks and are not afraid of failure.

By Over30 (Over30) on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 12:18 am: Edit

Marite is right about MIT. Last year their teacher rec form had a question about "a time the student failed or was unsuccessful" (I don't remember the exact words) and "describe how the student handled the situation." I have become a firm believer in the benefit of really studying the application, the essay questions, and the teacher rec questions to get an idea of what schools are looking for year to year.

By Robyrm (Robyrm) on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 02:15 am: Edit

Marite and Over30:

I think this situation interesting(in light of your comments) in that I am not sure this boy would ever have considered failure as a possibility before the specific episode- he had lived that sort of life.

He came back to win the competition his senior year, but applications and essays were long since submittted by that time.

Not only is it valuable to really carefully study the application...it is also a vital to prepare kids for the very real possibility of failure at some point in life!

By Marite (Marite) on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 07:28 am: Edit

Roby and Over30:

This year's app has the same question (out of two): "discuss an occasion where you have experienced disappointment or failure and how you have overcome it." (not verbatim).

My S's reaction to this prompt was that he had never experienced failure or disappointment worth mentioning.

By Simba (Simba) on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 07:49 am: Edit

My S's reaction to this prompt was that he had never experienced failure or disappointment worth mentioning.

It is same here, but wouldn't it convey the image that either the kid is arrogant or would break down at his first 'failure'?

By Rocketman (Rocketman) on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 06:22 pm: Edit

Thank you to all of you who took the time to respond to my questions. I kind of felt that the essay was going to be important, and you confirmed it. I'm going to point my S to this forum the next time he is home. I have found a lot of useful information here. Thanks.

By Marite (Marite) on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 06:38 pm: Edit

Simba:

My S decided to respond to another prompt. The problem with trying to address the failure or disappointment prompt is that of being truthful and keeping things in perspective. There are, of course, plenty of kids who do face major challenges and overcome them. But I sincerely hope they are the exceptions, rather than the norm. But a 16-year old whose life has not been affected by death, disease, divorce or natural disaster has not had much chance to experience real failure or disappointment, let alone trying to overcome them. That's not being arrogant: that's being honest about life's ordinariness. To blow minor disappointments into something major for the sake of writing how one has overcome it is not only being dishonest but also ridiculously melodramatic and self-absorbed. As for not knowing how a 16-year old would perform when faced with real failure, how could one know? do parents know? do teenagers have the self-knowledge to predict?
I talked to another parent (an MIT alum) and he laughed and said, very tongue-in- cheek: "Yeah, the tragedy of our kids's life is that there is no tragedy." Just kidding.

By Dadx (Dadx) on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 09:54 pm: Edit

The essays are your chance to distinguish yourself from the others like you (at the best schools, there are plenty), or , to shoot yourself in the foot.

Doing a last minute, non-thoughful job will be easily detected and speaks volumes about a person. I suspect the admissions officers are quite disappointed when they see stellar statistics and then read a clearly careless response.

In the end, the essays do a decent job of telling the readers about their candidate.

By Aparent4 (Aparent4) on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 10:29 pm: Edit

I think everyone should choose a prompt with which they feel comfortable, but I don't think a disappointment needs to be over a disaster or death. One of my kids wrote about a challenge in her particular area of the arts, and the other wrote about ups and downs in science research. These disappointments were not minor; they were endeavors into which they had each poured their heart and soul and countless hours over numerous years. When they met up with reversals, it was a real heartbreak, and coming back from them was a real test and ultimately a chance to discover newfound strength. (Fortunately, they did not write in such cliches!) The reversals did not involve recognition by others, but the creative process itself, and the essays described in detail how the disappointment happened and how they worked their way out.

Adolescents do experience things more intensely that we adults do, so they often do feel disappointment. But they don't always believe others will be interested in their struggles. And if they are resilient, they may not even initially think of these setbacks as "disappointments."

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 11:57 pm: Edit

The latter half of the discussion on this thread is quite interesting. First there was the val at Roby's school who came across as "arrogant" in his portrayal of an unexpected upset at a forensics competition. Perhaps he did come across as arrogant in the way he described that experience but actually it could have been a great essay topic.

I agree with Marite that (fortunately) many of our kids have not experienced any big setbacks or failures or tragedies in life. And yes, those are often spoken of on college essays. However, I agree with AParent that even these fortunate "ordinary" life kids can turn sometimes something not so big overall in life but still a disappointment or challenge that they experienced. I know it is sometimes hard to even think of those.

However, when reading the posts above, it reminded me of one of the essays that my recent graduate wrote. The prompt was NOT about a setback or challenge. In fact, I think it was the so-called "activity" essay in which she did not write about her favorite extracurricular (which likely is ski racing) but described an experience she had had in soccer...not to tell about how much she loved soccer, but the narrative of this experience showed certain things about her character and how she handled the situation which actually did involve disappointment, and particularly for a kid who (as Marite will appreciate) had pretty much only met with success until then. How she turned this setback or disappointment into something quite positive and then made a come back later on, was a telling story. So, while that was NOT the prompt, it actually can be an effective "Type" of college essay.

My younger D who is mailing in her first app tomorrow, had one essay on it that involved a setback she had to overcome or something of that sort. She, too, had the first thought, like Marite's son, that she had not suffered many setbacks in life that she had to overcome. But then all of a sudden she wrote this essay that she did not discuss with me first and wow, it had to do with dealing with having had her sister leave for college and their no longer living together as in childhood and how leading up to it was not big deal or so it seemed until it finally happened and how it has affected her outlook for the future in how she will appreciate the relationship....well, I am not putting this at all the way she did, but my point is that often even in every day life, there are challenges to face and how you deal with them reflect upon your character and personality. Sometimes there are essays where you least expect them.

Susan

By Marite (Marite) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 07:54 am: Edit

Aparent:

The MIT application had two prompts. The disappointment and failure was one; the other was about your community and how it had shaped you. My S is writing on the second prompt. Writing this essay has made him think about MIT's atmosphere of collaborative work among students, a real plus in his eyes. The first prompt, however, underlines the engineering, "mens et manus" climate of the school.
As you suggested, when doing projects, students need to cope with setbacks: experiments that don't quite come off, equipments that have been painstakingly put together but fail on the day of competition, and so forth. But it has always been my S's attitude to shrug his shoulders, try again if there is time and move on if there is not. So he really did not think this was worth writing about. The biggest disappointment he had last year was his coach's forgetting to request version B of the AIME test. This was the first time in his life that my S had actually prepared for a competition, so he was disappointed. But by the end of the day, he'd gotten over it. He did not think it was disappointment worth immortalizing in a college essay.

By Aparent4 (Aparent4) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 08:22 am: Edit

Marite, clearly your son is one of the resilient types I wrote about. But my kids both turned around the essay so that in the end, it was about the moving on. I say this not to criticize your son at all, but for the benefit of some lurker who may be reading these boards and wondering how to tackle that particular essay.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 08:31 am: Edit

Aparent, like your kids, the essay my older D wrote, though did not have a prompt about overcoming anything, still dealt with that theme but was not any HUGE thing in life that she got over but still something that affected her and the thrust was more to do with how she moved on and made the most of the situation and in fact, described a win-win situation that she made out of it. While it was a so called "activity essay", it really was not so much about the activity, but more about her, and in fact, was not even her most significant activity though it was one she had done since kindergarten, and in fact dealt with not being able to do it and being closed out of it for a full year to no fault of her own. For kids who deal with lots of success and no setbacks in life, to be able to even discuss one time when things did not go as hoped or planned and for once they were not on top of the world, so to speak, in essence is a good experience to have and what you make of that situation tells a lot about you. Like Marite's son, though this situation was bigger than that but still not huge, she did not dwell or get down about it or wallow. That one disappointment was turned into something very positive that she ended up being quite happy about in the end.

Susan

By Marite (Marite) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 08:39 am: Edit

Aparent:

I understood your intention; I also agree that for lots of students, there can be small disappointments along the way that are worth writing about because they do provide lessons and show a facet of one's character.
I was thinking about the young man Robym wrote about, who was so used to succeeding that he had a hard time dealing with failure. When he wrote about this, he came off as "arrogant."
My S takes the fact that things do not always work out as an integral part of research. But being more of a theoretical bent, the essay prompt made him question whether he was a good fit at MIT and vice-versa. So the two prompts are having opposite effects on him.

By Aparent4 (Aparent4) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 11:16 am: Edit

Marite, I'm interested in your last two sentences, because my kids both drew conclusions about the schools they were looking at by considering at the essay questions and other aspects of the application. Both found the essay questions at U Chicago constraining and too "clever." They felt very welcomed by the open-ended, multiple essays on the Princeton app. Yale, which my daughter loved, really didn't have anyone who could evaluate her dance video, and although an adcom had told her personally the previous year that she herself would view it, there would be no professor to look at it and the application said no videos were accepted. This really drove home to her that it was not a place where she would find much of a focus on dance. These poor kids applying are reading tea leaves at every turn! But doing so is actually helpful...not only in practical terms, as with the dance video, but as a reflection of the school's culture.

By Marite (Marite) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 11:38 am: Edit

Aparent:

I agree. The more one reads application forms and enquire about such things as supplemental materials, recs, and such, the more one learns about the colleges.
Some posters have bemoaned the number of essays required by Princeton, but I rather like them myself. My S has begun writing responses to them. Princeton is high on his list, but he will not apply ED. He is still very much thinking through the issue of fit.
If you thought the Chicago prompts clever last year, you should read this year's. I get the feeling that the admitted students who submit prompts are trying to outdo one another in showing off their cleverness and wide-ranging reading. One prompt this year is based on Hofstadter's The Mind's I. Duh! My S has "only" read Godel and Metamagical Themas and felt rather cowed.

By Farawayplaces (Farawayplaces) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 12:31 pm: Edit

To the original poster:

My son was not an essayist at all (avoided it as much as possible; got Bs in half his English courses). In a curious way, I think that benefitted him.

He was panicked when he sat down to write his college essays. To help him, I set up a schedule so that he'd write his major essay and do short answers over the course of five weekends. The first weekend, he sat in front of his computer screen for two hours without a word emerging. I finally did some cheerleading that broke the logjam. Don't write an essay, I said, just write off the top of your head how mad you felt about losing your competition. After another hour it all spilled out. And because of his inexperience, the essay wasn't elegant. It was naive, it was blunt...and it was wonderfully honest. I didn't edit a thing--well, maybe one thing. But I left the dangling modifier because it seemed to be right in the essay's "voice."

So what I'm saying is, figure a way to get the essay-intimidated kid writing. Then you might be surprised at the strength of the writing. These science/math kids know clarity of thought, and it is displayed in their writing. Good luck--my son got into MIT with his crude and honest essay.

By Over30 (Over30) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 01:08 pm: Edit

Farawayplaces has a great idea. Sometimes all you have to do is get started. In middle school my son had to write a descriptive poem and was having a really hard time. I finally told him to find a picture and just write a paragraph about it. Then take out the punctuation and put 5 or 6 words on each line. Suddenly he had a poem (which won a city-wide contest). He writes poetry for fun now. He just had to get over the hump.

Brainstorm some ideas with him, see what topics he thinks he can write about. And have him write early enough for rewrites or new ideas.

By Achat (Achat) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 01:14 pm: Edit

Faraway, great advice!

By Keats (Keats) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 02:40 pm: Edit

Marite, I think your son was smart to recognize that the essay prompt was not for him. Fortunately there was another prompt to choose! From what you say, he seems to know himself well and is decisive, both of which will serve him well, wherever he ends up in college.

As Marite suggests, kids who respond to that prompt with whining or melodrama certainly wouldn't seem all that impressive, but for kids like Soozie's and Aparent's who would (or did) answer such a prompt, I think it gives the adcomms an idea of the students' fortitude, tenacity, resilience, and other qualities that may serve them well in college and in life. When faced with obstacles, they were not deterred and came up with solutions or ways to cope. They carried on, or changed things, and learned from their experiences. Also, I think such an essay might indicate that success is in great part due to their own inner strength and drive, beyond (or perhaps sometimes despite) their schooling and backgrounds.

To the OP, Dadx put the importance of the essay so well and concisely, and I really like how Interesteddad, top post, and Farawayplaces, both added "honest". Great advice, all!

By Aparent4 (Aparent4) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 02:51 pm: Edit

"My S has "only" read Godel and Metamagical Themas and felt rather cowed."

Rotfl! That beats all!

By Marite (Marite) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 03:06 pm: Edit

Aparent:

I'm glad you saw the humor I did in that little vignette, too!

By Bookworm (Bookworm) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 05:16 pm: Edit

I like how Susan's D handled the challenge prompt. I do recall my S going straight for the challenge prompt, and writing about death of both grandparents just prior. Had I read CC before, I would have told him avoid the topic. However, it did show his maturity and sensitivity. Guess I'll never know if this essay helped or hurt him.

By Marite (Marite) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 05:26 pm: Edit

Soozie:

I did not get a chance before to tell you your younger D sounds so great from the gist of the essay you gave us (your older D, too!).

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 09:16 pm: Edit

Marite, I don't know that my younger D is so great or anything! She happens to be a talented writer. For that one essay, there was a choice or prompts and she was not going to do the "setback/obstacle" one as like your son, her first reaction was that she had not had any in her life to date (basically this is true overall). She was going to write one of the other prompts. I thought that was what she was doing that night. Next thing I know she says she has a draft done for this essay (was not the only essay for that application) and lo and behold, she chose the setback prompt and never discussed it first at all. When I read the first draft, I felt pretty teary eyed that she would have poured out what she did about the affect on her that her sister had left home to go to college. If anything ,she acted like it was no big deal when it was happening (and in fact, addresses that in the essay) but apparently it has made her realize many things and lost opportunities and what she will be making of it all in the future. In fact, I can tell, and this seems odd, that they are almost closer (on her end, as the other D was always very caring about the younger one) now that the older one is gone. The whole essay almost explains it all to me. I see them IMing now, talking on the phone, the younger one excited to spend the night in older one's dorm when we go to Parent Weekend, and so forth. The essay did not deal with that but her thoughts in it were very telling. She happens to write very well so the way she told it was effective I think. The problem was that the first draft was about 800 words and she had to cut it down to a little over 500.

I really liked the essay the older one wrote that dealt with a disappointment. It was not like a typical activity essay.

One prompt my younger one had to do for an essay for an app recently had to do with if your school board were to propose slashing the performing arts budget, to make a case against that action. She had an interesting slant to that one too. This particular kid does not seem to have trouble coming up with ideas. The older one wrote very good essays I think but coming up with the ideas took a bit of thinking first.

I also agree that the Princeton essays were good ones but a lot of work as there were so many. Also doing a 250 word one can be tricky.

Well, I mailed the first app of many this season today. There was a woman in line at the post office talking about that there ought to be some special mailer for mailing cookies to her child in college. I thought of you guys when I overheard her talking to the postal worker!
Susan

By Achat (Achat) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 09:29 pm: Edit

There are fat thick envelopes you can buy at the post-office to stuff food in. You have to declare perishable or not. (Sorry for the OT interruption, just thought I'd put my 2 cents in...nothing to do with essays).

As for cookies, there is this lovely cookie website that I can locate later that will ship anywhere...back to the Veep debates..