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Parents, you seem to know more about financial stability than I do.

Umm, I received Northwestern's financial aid package in the mail. They gave me a whopping $28,000 loan and $9300 worth of grant money. That totals to $37000. The total tuition is $40,000.

I don't know if I'm suppose to be happy, but that loan looks scary. That looks like the starting salary of an elementary school teacher. Heck, it looks like a car's MSRP.

My parents and I will hopefully petition for more grant and less loan money....

By Tenisghs (Tenisghs) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 05:23 pm: Edit

The interest rate on the $28,000 loan for this year is 4.60%. The repayment period is eight years.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 05:47 pm: Edit

By my calculator, that comes out to $312 per month.
For one year, that's not bad; for four years and being a recent grad, $1,248 might be a little stiff. Otoh, you'd have a degree from NU.

By Tenisghs (Tenisghs) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 05:50 pm: Edit

But TheDad, isn't that loan scary to you? Or is that as realistic as they come?

By Thisistrue (Thisistrue) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 05:55 pm: Edit

Tenisghs, that's a lot of loan. I got my financial aid package and it was 32000 scholarship and 2000 loan. your financial aid package IS very scary. I wouldn't consider northwestern to be worth all that money....

By Marcie (Marcie) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 06:00 pm: Edit

Tenisghs: I read your post on another thread about deciding between Northwestern and Michigan, recounting how your home is only 45 minutes away from Ann Arbor and that you have some concerns about leaving home and parents. I also grew up in Michigan (Lansing) and went to MSU for undergrad and Michigan for grad school (by then I was married). It can be enough of a separation and adjustment just to be 45 minutes away from home, getting used to being on your own at college. I went home about twice a month during the first two years of college when I lived in the dorm, usually for about 24 hours or less. I did my laundry, had lots of good food, saw my hometown boyfriend when he was home from college, and then happily went back to college. My parents didn't bug me, and it was a good transition into more independent life.

This amount of money to attend Northwestern is just not worth it when you can attend Michigan as an in-state student. Even though Michigan is big, it has so much to offer. Don't saddle yourself with a huge debt load if you have another good alternative. If you graduate debt-free, you might want to go on to graduate school--maybe at Northwestern!

By Burgmuller (Burgmuller) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 06:04 pm: Edit

I think University of Michigan at Ann Arbor has a better reputation then Northwestern.

You will have more than $100,000 in debt by the time you graduate from Northwestern...that's a lot of money.

My Harvard interviewer lived in a crappy little apartment and I thought she was still paying off her loan. Think carefully ... return on investment. I prefer U. Michigan to Northwestern even if the conditions are the same.

By Tenisghs (Tenisghs) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 06:24 pm: Edit

Seriously, burg! They expect us to be able to pay $31,000 and we are already in boats of debt! They have the nerve...

By Tenisghs (Tenisghs) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 06:48 pm: Edit

This is the current situation.

We can safely wipe out Northwestern since they expect US to pay $31000/year if we don't accept their $28,000 loan offer.

We may wipe out University of Michigan. If Northwestern above will be stingy towards us, Michigan will definitely not give me any money. By the time I graduate, I wouldn't be surprised if Michigan costs over $20,000 for tuition and room & board. My friend who will be attending Columbia in the fall got ZERO from University of Michigan. We are expecting the same zero financial aid.

Mom finally said to apply to the local college. They are still accepting enrollment. It's also cheaper too.

I live in a single-parent household where there is only ONE income. We are swamped with bills and all these schools can give us is pay nearly fully tuition? What in the world are they thinking...

By Thedad (Thedad) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 07:26 pm: Edit

Given what I see in salaries for college grads these days, the $312 loan wouldn't scare me it all. It does mean that you avoid the temptation of running up credit card debts while in college, etc. It's the $312 x 4 that would give me pause.

Tenisghs, I would approach the financial aid office at NU and try negotiating with them. I've heard this is often successful with private schools; with public schools, like U. of Mich., it's all computer-generated by the numbers and there's not a lot you can do about it.

A friend of daughter's got accepted at Sarah Lawrence, very expensive, and with aid has a net cost of about $3,000 a year...single mom, low paying job, etc. This wound up being much cheaper than University of California in-state.

U of Mich. is one of the two most highly regarded public universities, along with UC, so it's not chopped liver if you go there. But Northwestern is terrific, imo. Northwestern is more selective by virtually any standard, from interquartile SAT scores to class rank-percentiles of admittees.

By Dadster (Dadster) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 08:06 pm: Edit

Tenisighs, I would find the prospect of graduating 120K in debt very scary. Studies show that generally there's not a huge financial benefit from attending a particular school, even the elites like Princeton. Northwestern is a fine school, but if my kid's alternatives were to attend NU with a $100K+ debt load and go someplace else with little or no debt, I'd recommend the latter in a heartbeat.

Unless you have some kind of inside track on a high-salary consulting or investment banking job (and these firms are cutting back, not expanding), a $100K debt load won't be manageable. Understand that most new grads find things tight for a while even without massive debt.

Do you have a specific major in mind? BTW, I second TheDad's suggestion about trying to negotiate with NU. It can't hurt.

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 08:40 pm: Edit

You probably can get a full ride from the Journalism Institute for Minorities at Wayne State. It's an excellent program that also will help you get paid internships and a job after graduation.

I personally don't think that Northwestern is worth the money. It does not have the cachet of an Ivy. Once you leave the Midwest, people simply aren't all that impressed by it. It's not as if people think, "Harvard, Yale and Northwestern." They possibly think, "Harvard, Yale, and Emory" -- or whatever is an excellent university in their region.
While Northwestern is officially ranked a little higher than Michigan, many people assume it's ranked about the same as Mich. because Michigan has an outstanding reputation. I personally think you'd do just as well going to Michigan, and hope you'll be able to afford it.

By Tenisghs (Tenisghs) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 09:50 pm: Edit

The loan (ugh) Northwestern gave me is up to $28,000. So we don't exactly have to pay $28,000 if there are outside scholarships, etc. In the future, I may only have to pay an $18,000 loan instead of the total $28,000 they offer. The interest rate is 4.60% and the repayment period is eight years. "Borrowing through this program enables families to ease cash flow demands and protect savings and assets. No origination or insurance fees are charged." This is a parent/student loan.

My mom and I will try to negotiate with NU's financial aid to give us more grant money. If we can't get to a clear agreement to lower the possible financial commitment to less than $25000 the the $31000 they offered me, I will stick with the University of Michigan.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 11:51 pm: Edit

Good luck, Tenisghs. I've followed your posts for a while here...I hope things work out for you.

By Autodidact (Autodidact) on Saturday, April 12, 2003 - 06:34 pm: Edit

Tenisghs: The only thing more expensive than education is not getting one. That said, find one you can afford. Jobs (Careers) are based on having specific hiring criteria and skills, not specific diplomas from certain colleges. Business runs in cycles, stock markets and interest rates fluctuate, companies downsize, and nations wage war, unless you're planning on entering a field with a history of "forgiving"loans like education or medicine, due to shortages, I would say pay as you go or only as much as you can truly afford to pay. Stresshortens lives and limits enjoyment. Save the big bucks for grad school or your first home. Apply any additional savings to existing high interest debt. Even if you have to eventually borrow, you or your parents will be in a much more stable position to do it--and debt deferred is always money saved. Best of luck.

By Tenisghs (Tenisghs) on Saturday, April 12, 2003 - 10:08 pm: Edit

Auto, what you are saying is that I am in a better position to attend University of Michigan than Northwestern University. University of Michigan is $18,000 while Northwestern University is $31000 for me. University of Michigan is 40 minutes away! I also hate the size of the school.

All of my friends are leaving out-of-state, yet I get stuck in-state because of crappy financial aid. By the way, the FAFSA is so stupid because they only take your income into account and not your other circumstances like rising debt and lack of two parents in a household. What's worse, your mother shouldn't have to work into her 70s all because they don't take age into account. Michigan is not a walk-in-the-park either, and it's my in-state school! She has AARP benefits for crying out loud!

By Autodidact (Autodidact) on Saturday, April 12, 2003 - 11:49 pm: Edit

Tenisghs: Are you certain you correctly completed your FAFSA? We nearly made a mistake, and I want to make sure this isn't a clerical or input error. As a student in a single parent household, you claim only the custodial parent's income and the student's income. Is this consistent with how you filed?
I can totally understand your position, my daughter could have attended Drake with a very healthy near or full financial aid package, but it's too close, doesn't have a strong program in one of her majors, and she's taken some classes there already. Wants out of state as well. Did you apply other places? (Sorry, I'm sure I could retrace past threads to determine, but short on time with much work to be done.) It stands to reason if you can get into NW and Michigan, you can likely get in other places as well. One of the reasons my daughter likes Truman State is the size, she didn't want to go to a large uni either, thus ruling out Nebraska, etc. Her initial awards were only 1/3, which would have meant it just was not happening. There was an oversight, and she now has full tuition+. We're not bashful, and we asked, politely of course, making it plain that her decision would be dependent on the financial aid package. We can identify with your statement that they don't seem to take into account debt--or the cause of it.

By Tenisghs (Tenisghs) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 12:12 am: Edit

As a student in a single parent household, you claim only the custodial parent's income and the student's income. Is this consistent with how you filed?
=============================================
Yes! But we only received $9000 in grants. She
makes $116000, but my private high school costs $20,000 a year. That definitely hurts her as she has other bills to pay. Remember she is the only income circulating within the household. We are not eligible for Pell Grants or anything....

By Thedad (Thedad) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 12:49 am: Edit

Welllllll.....................

That income is going to majorly screw you for financial aid...that's a top five percent or so household income in the U.S. (Is there a tax expert or demographer in the house?) Off the top, they're going to figure that $20,000/yr. toward private high school will now be applied towards college tuition.

You would need *major* *documented* *allowable* expenses not to get hit with a hefty EFC, single parent or no.

By Tenisghs (Tenisghs) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 09:19 am: Edit

Someone told me that the $9300 Northwestern gave me despite my mother's income was damn generous. Is that true?

I want the EFC to drop below $30,000. Northwestern said our family contribution is $31000. If I take $20000 and subtract it from $31000, that's $11000 left for loan. I don't think I will have enough scholarships to lower that amount.

By Katwkittens (Katwkittens) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 11:48 am: Edit

$116,000???? only income, I am sorry but I am just in shock with the figure. I had been reading all your posts Tenisghs, as a single parent and trying to apply your financial aid offers with our situation. I was with you all the way in your confusion until the income figure. As a single parent with less than a $22,300 income for my family (we have 5 kiddos) I was panicing because I thought my rising senior would be expected to cough up as much as they had been telling you.
Yes, I can understand how the $31,000 NU is expecting your family to contribute is $11,000 in excess of your $20,000 high school tuition. But as a single parent also wanting the best for my gremlins there are many ways to approach this now and unfortunately, in the past. Common sense would allow that if a family can afford to pay a private school tuition of college-like proprtions then something similar would be expected for college, contribution-wise. On the other hand, paying a high ticket private high school tuition might also imply a pay off later when entering college in the form of merit scholarships versus financial need. So yes, if you were to pursue the numerous outside merit scholarships you could close the gap financially with regards to attending NU.

How comfortable is your mom with helping you pay off the loan from NU? How comfortable are YOU with letting her help? In another post regarding the influence of finances in college decisions, my comments reflected how this decision says more about the person and the development of their character than about the school they eventually choose. My high schoolers (3 of them) would not even consider such a scenerio which could seriously jeopordize their family's financial future and their own after college. Being able to define boundaries and know where the limits are especially financially, is part of growing up. Sure, as a child you want what you want but as an adult all factors are taken into account, especially those of your immediately family. As a contributing member of your family your duty and obligation to your mother just took on a new dynamic.

And yes, I know I sound like I am lecturing. Maybe I am, but I do know as a single parent the amount of responsiblity your mother has for you is not shared with another parent, her load is burdened alone. So add this to the mix of your many emotions and then write it down on paper, the pros and the cons and let the numbers answer your questions for you.

By Autodidact (Autodidact) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 01:12 pm: Edit

I know I responded to this, and barring a premature senior moment, posted the beastie. I will repost an abbreviated version. Unless the major debt you are discussing is a result of medical bills or some other catastrophic event, you will have difficulty getting any need based aid with such a healthy income. I personally know that my sister and I could raise a dozen kids on that total and still set aside money for college and retirement. I'd recommend a financial advisor and a serious look at what you're doing with the income if you're experiencing difficulties. That leaves you with your original two choices: pay the tuition or enroll somewhere cheaper, and I'm not saying that to be mean, just realistic. Sorry, but you're a victim of success.

By Tenisghs (Tenisghs) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 01:18 pm: Edit

Well, my cheapest option is the University of Michigan - Ann Arbor. It was just strange how someone told me that Northwestern was more than generous to give me almost $10000 in grants. Oh well. I think my mom and I can work something out.

Yeah, a victim of success paying for others to attend.

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 02:31 pm: Edit

"A victim of success paying for others to attend"?
Look -- Northwestern is giving you a $10 k grant even though your mom makes $116 k a year. Your mom -- with a salary in the top 5% of the country and with fewer dependents than most people have -- isn't even fully paying for you to attend college.

It is very unlikely that you have actually financial need. Sure, financial aid may make your mom and your life more comfortable, but that doesn't mean you have real financial need. A want is not a need.

I look at your complaints and I wonder what truly needy student is not getting $10k in aid they definitely need to attend college.

I also am very puzzled at why you are complaining about your college choices. You picked them presumably with your mom's approval. If you didn't want to go to Michigan, why did you apply? There are many other college that you could have applied to that cost the same or less. This includes some colleges that are also top national universities.

To me, it seems that you keep blaming Northwestern for your problems when your problems are due to poor financial planning on your mom's side and also to a poor choice of college applications on your part.

Unless your family debts are due to things such as major medical bills or unless your mom has someething like a chronic illness that would make it unlikely that she can continue working for a long time, I don't have sympathy for your plight.

By Tenisghs (Tenisghs) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 06:53 pm: Edit

Northstar, are you saying that the aid Northwestern gave me is not "need-based" but "merit-based" or whatever term that is better to describe the almost $10000 in grants?

Is Northwestern manipulating me to commit to their school?

By Autodidact (Autodidact) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 07:38 pm: Edit

Manipulating you only in the literal term as in "man"= "hand" and they are handing over for your benefit their resources to spare some of yours. They are extending an opportunity to avail yourself of their educational program and facilities, as would other institutions. They just aren't sweetening the deal as much as you'd like. All students have some portion of the true cost of their education borne by others whether it is federal aid or alumni who underwrite the continuing stability of their alma mater.

By Tenisghs (Tenisghs) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 04:16 pm: Edit

I am learning new information from everyone on this board on financial aid process. I'm not 100% ignorant about financial aid, but I thought we would receive enough money where we wouldn't have to take substantial amount of loans. Cry me a river that I didn't understand how loans work, but I knew that a package of all loans wasn't worth enrollment.

Northwestern said that they are very generous with their grants. I just can't believe that our family contribution is $31,000. Less than two years ago, my maternal grandmother passed away and my mother inherited the house and the debt leftover. My mom also had to pay the medical/funeral expenses, which added onto other debts. This is the worst position we have ever been in as we are cutting back on several things. The economy isn't doing too much for us either. We were optimistic before 2001.

Maybe Northwestern took whatever similar information above into consideration when they calculated our family contribution. They don't explain their formula(s) in the financial aid award so I really don't know. Thanks to those who were listening to my *shocking* rants. =)

By Theasrhs (Theasrhs) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 04:43 pm: Edit

Based on the formulas other schools use to calculate aid packages, I feel safe in saying your mother's income is at least half of your calculated your family's contribution,Tenisghs. I'm not sure you realize the *level* of prosperity that income represents, comparatively speaking. If your mother has a business, that will count as an asset. A paid-off house, or one with a lot of equity (even if only on paper) counts as a sizable asset that will also go into the final aid calculations.

I'm surprised your contribution is so low.

By Emeraldkity4 (Emeraldkity4) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 04:47 pm: Edit

Northwestern does not meet 100% of need.
When your income is high as your mothers is, especially when it sounds like your household is just you and your mother, then the best bet is to have great grades at a school that offers merit aid.

It doesn't matter that much to have other debt.
We have debt including medical debt, and potential debt in the guise of major repair work to our 100 year old house.
Our EFC is $13000, and we have to borrow that.
To put it in perspective, if we had your mothers income, we could pay your EFC and still not have our before tax income with which we live in a high cost area, and support 4 people.

BTW I don't think your mother is liable for her mothers debt unless you mean it comes out of the estate. Best probably to just sell your grandmothers house and erase the debt.

By Autodidact (Autodidact) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 11:43 pm: Edit

Tenisghs: My sympathies, my grandmother passed away 3 1/2 years ago, and my dad was the executor so I know that estate taxes can be wicked, and due to the unplanned nature can throw a major monkey wrench into any financial planning. The record low interest rates makes it a great time for marketing a house, maybe thedad could comment, but I know there may be other factors (siblings?) to consider which can make getting a consensus difficult. Best of luck.

By Nymom (Nymom) on Wednesday, April 16, 2003 - 08:11 am: Edit

Tenighs: It sounds as if your Mom chose to keep your grandmother's house rather than sell it to pay off estate debts and expenses. If so, you mother now owns a valuable asset, and this affected the EFC. Were you living in this house prior to your grandmother's death? Do you live there now? If so, the decision not to sell is understandable, and indeed, your grandmother's death would have caused your Mom to incur some debt that she would not otherwise have had had, and you should explain this in writing under "special circumstances." If you were/are not living in the house, keeping the house is an investment decision.

By Tenisghs (Tenisghs) on Wednesday, April 16, 2003 - 12:18 pm: Edit

So should I choose University of Michigan over Northwestern? I will like to attend graduate school, but I have no specific plans what will be my intended major.

By Autodidact (Autodidact) on Wednesday, April 16, 2003 - 08:29 pm: Edit

If you are undecided go with the cheaper school. Once you know what your major is, you can transfer if you feel you need to, and you may have a more advantageous FA situation at that time.

By 1tcm (1tcm) on Friday, April 18, 2003 - 08:11 am: Edit

I too at first felt sorry for Tenisghs, when I read this very same thread over on PR a week ago. She got some very helpful advice over there, (same as here). Just let me say folks, be careful, I came to the conclusion someone was trolling over there (which is not unusual), I'd hate to see the same thing happen here.

By Autodidact (Autodidact) on Friday, April 18, 2003 - 11:40 am: Edit

1tcm: What do you mean by trolling? Are you implying that this was an attempt to gain sympathy and personal funding? If so, I don't concur with your take on the situation. Unfortunately, this thread has the feel of a reality check on a young person's aspirations--although, it came later in life, than most kids'.

By 1tcm (1tcm) on Friday, April 18, 2003 - 02:20 pm: Edit

autodidact....when this very thread came up at PR, I was very disappointed for this young lady. Myself and several other posters gave her some ideas in which she could help herself and her mom. Others gave ideas about other schools she might find helpful. Every idea, every suggestion, she shot down for one reason or another. Believe, me I know circumstances can happen beyond someone's control, but with every excuse came another bit of information, (such as a father who should be contributing as well and if he won't how to handle it, tennis camps, not wanting to work, info on her $20,000 private education). Believe me, I hope things work out for her, but I think alot of help begins at home. If she wants northwestern I can't imagine why she wouldn't at least be willing to work for it a little.....JMHO

The thread is very long, and can be confusing because the longer it got the more heated it got. In the beginning, everyone was trying to help, it didn't get nasty until it looked and sounded that all she wanted was a free ride...(trolling)..with no regard to her families financial circumstances which are better than probably 95% of us. sorry, link removed per our terms of service -Admin

By Emeraldkity4 (Emeraldkity4) on Friday, April 18, 2003 - 02:38 pm: Edit

Ya, After I heard what the income was and the EFC I wasn't as sympathetic as at first. We could pay for two similar EFCs with her mothers income and still have our whole annual income left over- and that is for four people.
some tough decision

By Tenisghs (Tenisghs) on Friday, April 18, 2003 - 03:21 pm: Edit

1tcm, you misinform these people (how dare you) that I want a free ride. I never expected to have a free ride!! I just don't think our EFC is $31,000!

By Mamamiles (Mamamiles) on Friday, April 18, 2003 - 04:21 pm: Edit

Tenisghs, if you had gone to public high school for 4 years, your family could have saved $80,000 for college. We all make choices that have long-range implications... your family chose a pricey school and traded off the opportunity to save money for college. UMich is a great school... and since you're finishing hs, your mom will have $20k every year to pay college expenses.

I don't mean to be insensitive because we found our family in a similar boat; the difference is that we told our daughter upfront that if she didn't get enough merit scholarships to fund the difference between the cost of public/private universities, she couldn't go to a private university. We assumed that we would get nothing and planned from there, even though we had little savings. When Athe private school she wanted to attend offered very little, it was immediately scratched off the list.

I know the EFC is mind-boggling to you in light of your mom's debt load, but that's just the way it is. There is no way I would borrow that kind of money for an undergrad degree. (If you were in med school, that would be a different story). You will find yourself in worse shape financially than your mother is right now.

By Emeraldkity4 (Emeraldkity4) on Friday, April 18, 2003 - 04:31 pm: Edit

The EFCs can seem high, however the financial aid department are willing to review additional documentation.
However keep this in mind, our EFC is a third of what yours is,........our income is a third of what yours is too, so I have a feeling, that EFC is pretty reasonable.

By Tenisghs (Tenisghs) on Friday, April 18, 2003 - 05:14 pm: Edit

Mamamiles, I understand your point but I live in an urban neighborhood where the high schools are substandard. My mother had to make sacrifices to send me to a local private school not too far away but in a suburb. She wanted me to be a knowledgeable person and reap better benefits later in life. I have friends who attend my local high school, and my intelligence surpasses them. They didn't take the SAT/ACT for the first time until the fall of their senior year! It was a sacrifice, but it was worth it.

By Emeraldkity4 (Emeraldkity4) on Friday, April 18, 2003 - 06:02 pm: Edit

I am all for providing students with a reasonable chance to succeed and grow. Some families choose to send their kids to private school if money allows, others choose to move to where they feel are better public schools, others to supplement their education with travel, lessons, etc.

Having had some years to experience life, I see that you are proud of the opportunities that you have had, and your abilty to benefit from them.
That is great, however, do not judge others as less intelligent simply because they have not had the same opportunities. You may find that some of those students when given a higher bar, as in college, will exceed all assumptions.
Indeed experiments have been done, to admit students to colleges that are far above their grades and scores but not to tell any of their professors what their highschool record was. Those students throve in the new environment and did as well as any student coming from any school in the country.
But as this is a financial aid question, I would again restate that as $20,000 was available and a priority for secondary education, it is reasonable to expect that at least $20,000 would be available for college education.
So assuming the $20,000 that your family has already been spending for education, kick it up a couple thousand just becuase college is more expensive than high school, add expenses for your room and board, and that comes to just about what your EFC is.

However- the instate school seems much more reasonable.
Look at it this way, the money your mom paid for private school hasn't been wasted. You have recieved a great education, with your choice of colleges.
Without spending that money, you may have not been admitted to college at all.
Now you can pay your mom back, by choosing a fantastic school which just happens to be instate.
I have friend who for many years taught at Ann Arbor ( with degrees from Harvard and Yale- now teach at NYU), and U Michigan has a great reputation and it is just not worth the money to attend Northwestern IMO

By Mamamiles (Mamamiles) on Friday, April 18, 2003 - 07:01 pm: Edit

I understand the urban scene; I agree with Emeraldkity4... U Mich seems to be a more reasonable option, and plus it's a great school. You can save your mom a lot of money; as you observed, she has worked hard to help you advance. Now you have a chance to help her! Good luck.

By 1tcm (1tcm) on Friday, April 18, 2003 - 07:01 pm: Edit

Tenishgs, I'm quoting you from above - "It was just strange how someone told me that Northwestern was more than generous to give me almost $10000 in grants. Yeah, a victim of success paying for others to attend. "

Here's a bit of reality that may be hard for you to swallow.....Not everyone that goes to college even receives "grants" to begin with. Case in point, us. We don't make near what your mother does, and we don't live in a large city where we have the educational opportunities you did. Small rural high school. Father who works all over the country which causes us to have over 30,000 dollars a year of expenses to keep him on the road working, this not including the "bills" which you keep refering to. You speak on one thread or another about your mother having medical expenses for your grandmother....I can relate, my father-in-laws bills at MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston which we helped with totalled over 240,000 dollars...

My point is....my families EFC is 23,000. Can we afford it.....no way! Is my son going to college....Yes. And we're going to end up footing the whole 23,000 just like the government said we would. With absolutely NO Grants at all! Son received one merit scholarship and that basically covers the difference between my EFC and the total cost. That's it...no more...no grants..no subsidized loan, no nothing. We're willing to take out loans, he's taking out loans, and the boy is going to work the day after graduation to make some real money for tuition, having worked 30+ hours per week for the last 2 years at a minimum wage job to help. We're sucking it up, and not complaining and making excuses and paying what is expected of us, so forgive me, if I don't feel like your the victim paying for others (my son) to attend.

By Tenisghs (Tenisghs) on Friday, April 18, 2003 - 07:21 pm: Edit

1tcm, what college does your son attend? Is it expensive? Most of my friends are going to Columbia, Northwestern, Penn, and Cornell. Three of the four received large grants from these schools. Their parents make less money than my mother, and they also did not have to pay full tuition at high school. It's so unfair that I will have to matriculate to UMichigan.

By Mike (Mike) on Friday, April 18, 2003 - 08:01 pm: Edit

I don't think it is unfair. You can't tell about how much money is needed without reviewing the whole form. My Family makes about 1/2 as much as your's and their reqirement will be about 24,000. U of Michigan is a fine school. I am an only child and would never want my family to go deep into debt for my college even though they would no doubt do it if I asked. I am all set to go to State U of there is not enough money to cover the privates I am going to apply to.

By Wadad (Wadad) on Friday, April 18, 2003 - 08:02 pm: Edit

Tensighs,
UMichigan is one of the great public universities. Sure, it's not as prestigious as the Ivies, but it is a very fine university.

You seem bitter that your family's EFC is higher than you wish it were. But you are being offered a gift of almost $40,000 over 4 years to attend Northwestern. If you do not wish to pay what it takes to cover the balance of the cost, by borrowing the money or whatever means, that is your choice. No one in this country is entitled to a free college education.

It would be nice if I could buy a brand new BMW for $10,000 but that is not the way the world works. The sooner you learn to deal with the situation you are in, rather than complain about it to others on the internet, the better off you'll be.

By Mamamiles (Mamamiles) on Friday, April 18, 2003 - 08:02 pm: Edit

Who said life is fair? Plenty of bright people don't get the opportunity to go to college at all. Some even join the army so they can get a college education. Sounds to me that you are too worried about keeping up with your friends. If borrowing the money for NU is too much of a strain, then go to U Mich. It is a fine institution with a solid reputation.

By 1tcm (1tcm) on Friday, April 18, 2003 - 08:31 pm: Edit

"1tcm, what college does your son attend? Is it expensive?"

Sons total college expenses next year will total 36,000...I'd say that qualifies as expensive. He got a 12,900 per year merit scholarship. Everything else is coming out of our pocket.

"Most of my friends are going
to Columbia, Northwestern, Penn, and Cornell. Three of the four received large grants
from these schools. "

Are these "grants" or "scholarships"...there is a difference???

"Their parents make less money than my mother, and they also did not have to pay full tuition at high school."

It's a fact that the less money a family makes the more help there is available to them. As it should be. Would it have been fair for your friends to not be able to afford to go to your high school just because they couldn't afford it? I'm guessing they were outstanding students who deserved the chance and received assistance for their academic achievements. This is a good thing!

"It's so unfair that I will have to matriculate to
UMichigan. "

You don't have to matriculate at UMichigan if you don't want to. If you want Northwestern bad enough, get off your butt, go to work, save some money, take out the loans, you and mom write a special circumstance letter (making sure that these are truly un-avoidable expenses...they do verify them) and go to Northwestern. It's always easier to sit around and gripe and complain about things, but by doing so you accomplish nothing. By going on the offensive and actually trying to help yourself in any way possible even if you fail at least you will have accomplished something and probably learned a few things along the way.....

By Jenniferpa (Jenniferpa) on Friday, April 18, 2003 - 09:22 pm: Edit

"It's so unfair that I will have to matriculate to UMichigan. "
Why on earth did you submit an application there if you didn't want to go there?

I'm beginning to find it hard to believe that your intellectual attainments are as you report. If you displayed the same lack in logical thinking on your applications as you have here, I'm frankly amazed that you got into any college.

Look, I had both my children in private school up to the time the oldest was 10. When the total tuition bill got to 30,000 per year for the two of them, we withdrew them because we didn't want to have to say "Sorry, no college for you, we spent it all on elementary school".

Are you familiar with Dickens? Even Mr Micawber had a better grasp on the way finances work. At least he grasped the concept that when your expenses exceeed your income the result is misery, although you appear to believe as he did that something will turn up. Let me tell you: it won't.

By Autodidact (Autodidact) on Friday, April 18, 2003 - 09:51 pm: Edit

Okay, Tenisghs, the people have spoken telling you the bitter truthes of life. The five main points in plain English.
1. The good Lord helps those who help themselves.
2. There are two ways to have more money: earn more or spend less.
3. When your outgo exceeds your income, then the shortfall becomes your downfall.
4. Lots of people are in worse shape than you are.
5. Those who are struggling at all costs to provide their kids with a college education, are out of both sympathy and patience with your complaints.
Sorry babe, but you are the master of your own destiny. The Chinese character for disaster is identical with the one for opportunity. "It's your attitude, not your aptitude, which will determine your altitude." The way you choose to regard your circumstances will determine your ability to overcome them. Reach deeper,grow stronger, and succeed. Given the benefits your mother has given you, if you don't consciously participate in your future sucess; you will unconsciously be purchasing your ultimate failure--and the regrets and blame will be all your own. Wishing you the best of luck!

By Emeraldkity4 (Emeraldkity4) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 12:15 am: Edit

Well i didn't see that Tenisghs had returned to the board, but I noticed on another board that she has apparently decided to go to Northwestern, I thought that after all that great advice parents gave her, that you might be curious what the result was.


Id love to know how she decided to pay for it

By Mike (Mike) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 12:10 pm: Edit

I am not surprised. The whole theme seemed to be based on "I want Northwestern tell me it is ok for my mom to pay for it." I have managed to save money for college on a much smaller income and I am glad my son is not that self centered.


Mike's Dad

By Emeraldkity4 (Emeraldkity4) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 12:38 pm: Edit

Whats worse IMO is that it seemed to be that Northwestern was more desired not only because it was out of state, but because it was expensive, private and some of her friends were going there.
Now my daughter ended up attending the only private school she applied to, but like I said our EFC is a third of what Tenisghs is, ( our income is too).
If we had had a great alternative like instate Ann Arbor, I am sure that it would have been a more difficult choice.
As it was there was a small disparity in expenses with a bigger disparity in academics, so we all made the decision that a little loan on both my daughters and our part was well worth it.
I know terrific students who have gone to Ann Arbor out of state, and actually I am under the impression that it has a better rep than Northwestern. But don't we all have to make our own mistakes? Some are more expensive than others though in more ways than one.

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 12:50 pm: Edit

On a totally different board from here, she states that they are accepting the loans, and she feels it's a good deal. Apparently her mom will pay for the loans.

It will be interesting to see if later she feels the sacrifice is worth it. Since she is black, I can see why she wouldn't want to go to U Mich. now with all of the attention on black students there due to the Supreme Court case.

However, my thoughts are that she could have applied to colleges in a way that would have given her other excellent and more affordable options.

NU is a good school, but I wouldn't want to go into that kind of debt for it.

By Tenisghs (Tenisghs) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 12:54 pm: Edit

Hi again, it's amazing how people on this board are so quick to label me. Yes, I chose Northwestern and I have made an excellent decision. Ann Arbor is very unfriendly to black students. Northwestern offered me more money than Michigan (the school didn't even give us any loans.) So if you don't understand why I chose Michigan, you can continue to ponder. I can't wait until Fall 2003.

By Mike (Mike) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 02:00 pm: Edit

You assume that where you go is something I would need to ponder about. Always thought you would go there. Just wasn't impressed with your reasoning or complaining.

Mike's Dad

By 1tcm (1tcm) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 04:10 pm: Edit

If this thread teaches nothing else, I think it shows the importance of a student and/or parent doing some research about how financial aid works, the total cost of a college education, a families individual financial circumstances discussed among themselves, and the almost dire importance of finding schools which are financial viable for a family before the application process begins.

By Autodidact (Autodidact) on Thursday, May 01, 2003 - 02:46 am: Edit

1tcm: I agree completely.

Tenisghs: You were certainly quick to label people, too, it seems. There are a great many divergent opinions and lines of thought expressed on this forum daily--yet with one broad stroke, you assumed that we were all of one mind. If you and your mother feel you made an informed opinion--after all, you were privy to all relevant financial documents when the forum was not--and she feels confident that the loans will not be burdensome, than as a member of a capitalistic society, I hope that your end, indeed, justifies your means.