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Okay, before some of us bounce off this list for a break or until the next son/daughter comes along, I need your help:

I've been asked by the local public high school to present a parent seminar about how to help guide your kid through this whole process. Yes, we have a guidance office on the campus, but it's overwhelmed with dealing with social issues and the staff has admitted they don't have the time to collect much info for kids and parents who are thinking of college in their future (this is a very rural area).

I've learned tons from all of you folks and much, unfortunately, from the mistakes our own family has made in the last four years. I have a variety of websites, newsgroups, etc. to provide for contacts.

What I'm looking for from all of you are answers to these questions: What advice would you give to other parents as their student entered high school? What would you have done differently? What resources were invaluable for your family?

I know this is a wide-ranging request, but I thank you in advance for your experience and help. I plan on collecting the info and putting it in a format for the presentation (slated for September). I think it'll really help those kids and families who may not have much awareness of things they can do, expect and prepare for as they draw closer to their college years.

By Theasrhs (Theasrhs) on Friday, April 04, 2003 - 04:04 pm: Edit

You should read the post from Sluggbugg in the "Emotional Intensity" thread. It's fabulous. And hilarious. It's a great resource, and offers wonderfully warm perspective.

By Autodidact (Autodidact) on Friday, April 04, 2003 - 09:03 pm: Edit

I agree with Theasrhs, include the SluggBugg's piece as a fronticepiece, parents will find it amusing, dissettling, and a great starting point for a support group--and they'll need it. When guidance counselors are uninformed, or uninterested these families need all the help they can get. My daughter is working on a pamphlet for younger students, I'll let you know when it's finished, and we can swap materials. Our rural school needs to start with a four year plan for its students. These kids and their parents need to know what classes are available, and when to take them. thedad was talking in terms of third or fourth grade, and I concur that most kids (and schools) wait too long to begin challenging themselves. In terms of rurals vs. larger metro, our kids are apt to get seriously burned in the process because they have less choice, less chance, and less EC opportunities. My advice would be: Create your chances.
Press administration for a curriculum which will give your students the chance to compete anywhere. Publish schedules for ACTs, SATs,and deadlines for financial aid in your Parent newsletters, online, and in any student publications. Without adequate information, the schools are failing in their mission. Encourage one another, be patient, persistant, and persevering. Cultivate relationships with your student's teachers, remember they write those make or break recommendations. Get all of the free education you can if you have post secondary options available. Take SAT II tests immediately after you finish a class--the student may be burned out in June, but the information will be forgotten or fuzzy months later. Prep before the tests, even if it's just a review of the pamphlet. Lobby to have both the SAT and the ACT moved to the afternoon when students are awake. And last but not least remember, to paraphrase Churchill, neither success nor failure is final, it is courage which counts. Take courage from one another--and of course remember to post on CC.

By Dadster (Dadster) on Friday, April 04, 2003 - 09:55 pm: Edit

Having been through the process as both a newbie and a more experienced parent, I guess I'd offer the following suggestions:

1) Parents and counselors need to read up on college admissions. My own experience was that the HS guidance counselors had no experience in elite admissions, and hence offered useless advice or even misinformation. Unless your kid attends a school that regularly sends kids to elites and you have great counselors, you must work to learn about the process. A is for Admission, America's Elite Colleges, etc., will give some perspective on the challenges facing applicants.

2) Many counselors know little about elite admissions. Even worse, they probably have even less familiarity with great schools around the country that don't crack the US News top 20, but offer outstanding educations. Knowing about these schools is even more important, perhaps, since the probability of admission is higher for a broader range of students. Again, families need to inform themselves. Pope's books, among others, will help correct the perception that there is no life beyond the Ivies or your state system.

3) College sites like this offer a great resource for families (and even counselors). One you have read the books, hang out and exchange ideas...

ProudtobeMom, you are fortunate that your HS is willing to allow you to share your experience. All too many HS counselors seem to have a NIH (Not Invented Here) problem and don't want anyone implying that someone might know something the guidance office doesn't. Good luck!

By Wonderin (Wonderin) on Saturday, April 05, 2003 - 07:52 am: Edit

Worth repeating: "Many counselors know little about elite admissions. Even worse, they probably have even less familiarity with great schools around the country that don't crack the US News top 20, but offer outstanding educations."-As Dadster states...We found out the hard way. My son has worked so hard since THIRD grade. When other kids were outside playing, he would be inside doing his homework. I am not a college graduate and I had no way of knowing that there was a specific path to take to get to the elite schools OTHER than hard work, maintaining high class rank and ECs. The high school guidance counselors did nothing except shove scholarship forms his way. But by then (his senior year) when he discovered what it took to get into an elite school it really was too late. When he applied in the fall of his senior year, we then realized what he should have done. We stumbled on this site during the process and read with horror and regret! The advice needs to go to 8th grade parents at the latest. I am going to spread the word.

By Marylandmom (Marylandmom) on Saturday, April 05, 2003 - 08:59 am: Edit

Here are the things I didn't know that quickly come to mind.

1. Number one and most important, I didn't know that scores and stats within the range or even at the top of the range of the reported norms for a college mean nothing if the school receives many times the number of applicants it will accept. ANY school that admits only 25% of applicants is a reach school (and a far reach at that) for most perfectly well qualified students.

2. I did not know that strong encouragement by admssions officals means NOTHING, necessarily, about a students chances for admission. Schools simply need the largest possible pool of high-scoring applicants to increase their perceived selectivity. Colleges are competetive businesses, not warm fuzzy places.

3. I didn't know that having a well-rounded set of high school experiences, interests, and activities is no longer the goal. Kids need to specialize and develop a passion even if they do not naturally have one, and they need to do something BEYOND what is appropriate and expected for a teen in order to stand out in the group of applicants. (I did not realize that apparently a student should include material that documents their "specialness". At the time my daughter was applying, I would have thought a student would be at risk by not following the rules precisely and that extra material would be frowned upon as cumbersome clutter.)

4. I would recommend applying for early acceptance. The happiest families I know are those who had this horrendous experience behind them by the middle of December.

5. Students need many schools in all three categories (reach, good fits, and safeties) that are acceptable and hopefully even exciting to them, and they need to realize that even the safeties may not be "safe". I resent the expense of many extra application fees, but it seems necessary.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Saturday, April 05, 2003 - 10:04 am: Edit

Good post, Maryland. I'd differ...actually, it's a quibble because in many cases you're right...on one thing: I don't think the EC *has* to be beyond what is appropriate for a teen. Sure, single-handedly pulling a third-world country out of poverty will get an adcom's attention but so will a student pouring themselves into one or two EC's such that they are immersed in it...I don't even know that high accomplishment is that important if the immersion is there. (I recall reading one essay fragment that began "I am the worst soccer player on the worst soccer team in the state...." Admitted to Princeton.)

On EC's, just from what I've read both here on the board and in the books, some of the traditional EC's--community service, student government, editor, Mock U.N.--are fine but those are the ones where achieving at a high level is probably much more helpful than otherwise. I think finding an EC that is something the student truly loves and doesn't prompt a reaction from the admissions committee of "Oh, God, not another [fill in the blank]" is probably better...which is why I use the example of "bagpipe player."

Now that I think on it, I know there are some current and former admissions officers that lurk on this board...it would be nice if they would confirm, deny, or amend my notion.

By Hautbois (Hautbois) on Saturday, April 05, 2003 - 11:42 am: Edit

I have work in 30 minutes, and no time to think too carefully on this right at the moment, but I would also add these few things:

Make certain the "safety" schools are schools the student will agree to attend! I don't know how many of the students posts mentioned that they'd gotten into their safety but "who'd want to go there anyway?" If they don't want to go to the school, and will actually refuse to attend that school, it's pretty pointless to apply, imo. Costly too!

From personal experience: if you child prefers you don't read his/her essay, be sure the English teacher is a good proofreader! (I realize this sounds pretty silly, but I'm fairly certain my D's essays were part of the reason schools didn't accept her.)

I think parents need to lighten up a bit. I know this whole thing is stressful, but sometimes I think we add so much stress to an already stressed out high school student. A good college is a great thing. But there isn't the one perfect college and if I don't get in I may as well commit suicide school. I've been very distressed to see how many kids here and, especially, at the PR site are so incredibly destroyed and at least mention suicide. I realize they are over reacting, and I realize that most of them aren't serious about this. (I hope so, anyway!) But I do think a parent's reaction can be helpful to the student. "Oh well, no Yale ... but look at this other school that wants you!"

Okay, that last item is probably silly and not all that useful; I was just terribly bothered when I went to read some student posts and saw things like "My life is over ..." there.

I went to a local CSU. No one thinks highly of it, from all I read at the sites. I've been a performing musician since 1975, and I teach at two universities (very part time, mind you; I just teach on my instrument). I've survived. I know the kids will as well. I just hate thinking that they have a mindset that will cause them to feel like failures ... feeling that way is a step to being that way, imo.

Oh dear. Too many words. Not much said. Sorry! 8-)

Off to teach my kiddos!

(But I will think on this more and see if I come up with anything that is actually helpful!)

Patty

By Theasrhs (Theasrhs) on Saturday, April 05, 2003 - 11:56 am: Edit

And don't forget about the other shoe that may not drop until after the coveted acceptance is in hand: financial aid packages.

My 2 cents on process, which starts way, way before high school:

(1) Start the discussions of postsecondary education early. Have your kids start thinking about what *kind* of education they want. Notice what kind of experiences they enjoy -- beginning in grade school. Start talking with them about what that means in the pathway that is their life. Don't narrow their options too early. Support and encourage interests, making linkages to how those interests relate to expression in the adult world. Follow up with as much support for engagement in extracurricular activities as you can afford, personally and financially.

(2) Middle School: Start thinking about which postsecondard institutions support those developing interests and talents, and begin to have general discussions about the different types of schools. Advocate, advocate, advocate for your child with the middle school teachers and administration. Provide tutoring *now* if you can afford to. If not, identify resources that provide tutoring for free. If no resources, help your school to set them up. Demand that the teachers and administration meet your child's needs. Help others do the same.

(3) Make sure you know what middle school classes are needed to get your kid into the high school classes you see s/he needs to get to the postsecondary school that best meets their nascent needs. Support your kid into what *they* want to do: is it technical? is it creative arts? is it science and math? is it some weird combination? Identify the resources in your community that support your child's interests, strengths and talents.

(4) Make sure your child's counselor knows who you are. Make sure the administration and registrar knows who you are. Make sure you know all about the PSAT, the SAT, the ACT, the SAT II's.

(5) Make sure your child knows exactly what the various schools require so that they know exactly what they *must* do to even be considered for admission. Don't rely on the counselor.

(6) Talk to your child early and frequently about the realities of your financial situation. UNDERSTAND THAT NEED-BASED MEANS JACK IF THE SCHOOL DOES NOT GUARANTEE TO MEET ALL NEED. Be sure to include at least one or two schools on the likely list that *do* guarantee to meet all need. Include at least two schools that offer merit aid. Pour over the financial aid policies of every school for which your child seems to be a match.

(7) If you are a divorced parent, and there are money issues with the noncustodial parent, have very frank conversations with the financial aid department of those schools who are on your child's likely list about their position on this issue. Repeat back, word for word, what they tell you. Put it in writing. Include your dated notes with your financial aid application as your understanding of their position.

Personal note: My daughter is not a math person. There are schools out there that don't really care if you are a math person. But then you really must excel in other disciplines and have a well-developed passion to be considered for the top schools. What I don't think she really *got* until now is that, without exceeding the minimum math and science courses, she would not be seriously considered by the *very* top schools. Even the more quirky very top schools, I suspect, because she is not an athlete, a state-wide winner of something, a legacy, or a national merit scholarship semi-finalist.

And reiterate what Marylandmom says: even the safeties may not be safe. The extraordinary numbers applying to the top tier and ivy schools are necessarily going to impact the second and other schools across the country -- at least for the next xx years. I suspect the only schools that can genuinely be "safeties" will be those state schools that take over 80% of applicants.

:::shades of the early '70's:::

By Wadad (Wadad) on Saturday, April 05, 2003 - 01:07 pm: Edit

Proudtobemom,

I think it's great that your school has asked you to do this, and that you are able to help out. At my daughter's high school they have a parent give an information session every year titled something like "So you want to go to a selective college?." This parent has one son at Stanford and another at Claremont McKenna, so she knows what she's talking about. It was at her presentation a year ago that I first heard about "A is for Admission," which got me reading many of the other books mentioned on this site.

In addition to mentioning books and reference sources, I would emphasize the following (many of these points have already been mentioned):

1) Choose your safety schools (actually all the schools) carefully. If you really want to go to a LAC, then the local U is probably not an appropriate safety.

2) For the most selective schools, those with acceptance rates below 30%, it really is unpredictable. Having grades, scores, etc. in the right zone, or even at the 75% percentile, just buys you a lottery ticket.

3) Whatever you feel about AA, preferences for legacies, athletes, etc., they are a fact of life. Realize that if your child is not an Under Represented Minority, legacy, athlete,or development prospect ($$$$), they will have to stand out even more in the applicant pool.

4) Because of #2 & #3, if you are shooting for the most selective schools it makes sense to apply to several. My daughter applied to 2 safeties, 3 good fits, and 4 reaches. She was waitlisted at 2 of her reaches and accepted everywhere else. If she had applied to the more usual 2 safeties, 2 fits, 2 reaches she might not have gotten in to any of the reaches she applied to.

5) Demographics have changed the equation dramatically. Any books, articles, advice, experience dating from the mid 1990s or earlier needs to be re-calibrated at a minimum. There are 20% more kids turning 18 this year than in 1994. That means at least 20% applications to the selective schools, in many cases the number of applications has risen much much more.

6) This can be a very good experience. My daughter and I have grown to know each other in new ways as we have explored college possibilities and choices. For many this is the first step to independence and adulthood. Although the process is stressful and time consuming you will be helping your child do something important. Make the process one that your child will appreciate 1 or 4 years from now.

By Tuitionpayer (Tuitionpayer) on Saturday, April 05, 2003 - 08:08 pm: Edit

I am happy that my 2nd, and last, child has almost certainly decided on her choice, a good LAC. The older child is at an Ivy, which has been great for him. The more competive admissions in even 3 years ruled out the Ivy's (and I question whether the Ivy child would have been admited this year). Reading the posts and thoughts on this board brings some sense of sadness at the insane buildup of pressure. The demands increase. My daughter took more AP's than her older brother, and says that the younger students are taking even more. I am saddened that this generation gets so driven to do all that is required for the "A is for admission" type formula that they lose the opportunity to follow passions. I tried to encourage my children to follow their passions and put their energies into what feeds the fire in their belly. Thus far, a focus on passion seems to be working. I worry about the impact of the formula driven achievement focus on a generation of talented kids. They have the seeds of becoming burned out and disillusioned 30 & 40 year olds. Just as we havent seen the long term impact of intensive athletics on young bodies, we have not yet seen the long term impact of the "you have to do this to be successful" on emotional development. Just a few thoughts as we go through these difficult times. As we saw all too tragically after 9/11, the victims at that time were not primarily remembered and mourned as ivy grads or elite college grads but were remembered and missed as friends, parents, family members and members of communities. It was their passions that made them great.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Saturday, April 05, 2003 - 08:44 pm: Edit

I worry about the potential for burnout, too.
Daughter is learning to drive; I pointed out the tachometer on the car and explained its significance. The parallel for people was not overlooked.

Fwiw, I think high school is about the most stressful time that many students will go through, absent medical or law school. Not only are you piled high with obligations, you have very little control over your use and allocation of time. It seems that every single minute is accounted for.

In practical terms, if daughter lies down on the sofa for a quick nap after coming home from ballet and says she needs half an hour, I usually don't wake her for an hour, maybe more. It helps that it's almost a catechism with us to run down the evening's homework while driving to ballet, so I know how much time she'll need and what other activities must therefore slide if necessary.

By Elenavega (Elenavega) on Saturday, April 05, 2003 - 10:07 pm: Edit

As a student, I would tell you that parents need to be more involved in the college admission process. Go online, read books, order viewbooks from universities, visit public libraries with information on colleges. There are many places where you can get info about college and plenty are on the internet (and its the easiest way to find material). From my experiences, my counselor would not help unless I made a meeting a week in advanced and the meetings were never really helpful, so I know how hard it can be for kids. Unfortunately, I missed out on many opportunities because of a lack of resources here in the rural place I live in. But all I can say is you have to take the initiative and find resources for yourselves if no one is willing to help.

By Quink (Quink) on Monday, April 07, 2003 - 01:32 pm: Edit

Perhaps you could address some of your remarks to parents of younger students, freshman and sophomores, as they may not be thinking about college preparation yet. Informed, they can have a very positive influence throughout the journey to college.

I think the key concept to impart is the competitive nature of college admissions today due to the post-baby-boom population curve and increasing percentage of applicants. Parents REALLY need to understand that the entrance bar is set far higher than it was when they applied.
Many parents believe that the college admissions process will take care of itself, because it was no big deal when they applied.

Habits of thought are persistent, and it takes some energy to trigger reflection about long-held beliefs and consideration of new information. For instance, my avocation is dog training - I have noticed that many people who get a dog and haven't had one since they were kids tend to behave the same way they did back then - leaving the dog intact, letting them run loose in suburban neighborhoods, and so on. In most areas today, these practices are not safe for the pet, but the owners tend to persist in their past beliefs and behaviors. Same principle applies to parent involvement in college preparation and assistance with the admissions process - anything you can say to raise their consciousness would be a service to their children.

When my son was a freshman, transitioning to a public high school from a private middle school, I made sure that he was placed in the most advanced courses available and that stray requirements (i.e. a semester of health education, a technology course) could be completed in summer school. This enabled him to clear the slate for lots of AP courses in his junior and senior years.

I enouraged him to immediately get involved in his main EC areas, primarily to have fun and make friends, but also (not emphasized to him directly) to create a 'four-year immersion and accomplishment' record that will support his college candidacy.

My son is now a sophomore, so I am still taking the lead in becoming informed about colleges and admissions. I haven't pressed him to read anything in detail or begin to make initial choices, but have concentrated on: assisting him with course selection; providing him with SAT II prep books for Chem and Math IIC; helping him choose college courses for the summer; making sure he takes some practice PSATs and SATs; and supporting his ECs.

Had I not taken this 'advocacy' role, his high school record would already be behind the curve of what is required for admission to very selective colleges today. Early awareness and early involvement are the key phrases you might wish to communicate to the parents.

Most sophomores that I know are not quite ready for detailed planning or making selections, as they are busy living in the present and don't want to accept too much pressure about the future.

In my son's case, he has gradually started to become more interested in contemplating the transition to college. He has done an overnight visit at one college and will be going with me to some nearby colleges tours/info sessions over spring break. We will wear our Tourist hat for these visits, just soaking up the information and atmosphere, getting the feel of different types of schools.

'Gradualism' is the principle to which I've tried to adhere, - or in dog training parlance, 'behavioral conditioning with escalating criteria!'

You might want to suggest to parents of younger students that in addition to informing themselves about admissions and colleges, they should rough out an outline for standardized testing testing for junior and senior years to allow the student to prepare in advance by taking practice tests and self-study. They might also try to set some dates, well in advance, by which the student should have completed pre-selection tasks, such as a self-assessment for college characteristics, an initial list of 20-30 interesting colleges, etc. Their mission is to shepherd the student towards incremental increases in responsibility for the process.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Monday, April 07, 2003 - 02:11 pm: Edit

Yes, getting on the info early and realizing that it's not like it was when we applied to college are both key.

I'm glad that I had something of a clue but am chagrined to find that I could have stood to have understood even more even earlier.

My initial intution that I would be far more instrumental and ultimately knowledgeable than daughter's high school college counselors was, unfortunately, dead on.

Quink, good to have you around. Just last night I was thinking that there are far more parents of daughters than sons here. Nice to have some balance.

By Proudtobemom (Proudtobemom) on Monday, April 07, 2003 - 02:50 pm: Edit

Everyone's advice has been great so far. I thank you folks for all your time and thoughtful replies. I'm continuing to compile them.

And yes, Quink, one of the main reasons I'm doing this is to help those parents of incoming high school kids. I had a plethora of "if only I'd known" sighs that I'm hoping to help other parents avoid. Still too many students and parents don't even *think* about the college question in any detailed manner until they're seniors.

By Aparent (Aparent) on Monday, April 07, 2003 - 05:04 pm: Edit

Something that people on these boards know but about which most others seem astoundingly ignorant: In helping your teen choose a college, don't go by the reputation it had when you were applying, or even when your child's older sib was applying. Know that it is a LOT harder now. You may have to lower your expectations considerably. I have know several parents who thought they had already done so and were then stunned to be told by the student's GC that in fact even the schools on their child's list were "reaches." Keep an open mind about how much your child can learn and accomplish at schools that might not sound impressive to you.

And I didn't say anything about the "education he or she can receive," because I think parents need to stop looking at this as a commodity to be purchased. A student interacts with the available opportunities to educate him or herself.

By Harvardmom (Harvardmom) on Tuesday, April 08, 2003 - 01:54 pm: Edit

I've learned that in spite of all the notoriety given to the concept of legacies, minorities, and the like that the exceptional applicant still has the opportunity to have an exceptional experience. Our daughter was accepted to all five schools to which she applied: Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Georgetown, and UChicago. At the outset, her college counselor discouraged her from setting her sights on the schools to which she was applying and encouraged her to develop her safety list. The counselor placed high priority on 1600 SAT 1's (hers was only 1580), but her 2 1600-scoring classmates were 1: waitlisted at Harvard and Brown, and 2: rejected at Harvard. I think the standardized test scores are important, but I think if you have high test scores (which she did plus 3 800 SAT 2's; 5 on all 5 of her Junior AP's, and PSAT of 236) along with all the extras of working (and not for your parents either,) playing 3 varsity sports, involvement in community service, and so much more, that the trivia spouted by the high school counselor is better ignored. We gave our child
only encouragement to aim high and work hard knowing that with her natural intellect and work ethic that she would achieve her goals. The system itself is destructive of young egos and hearts, and we as parents need to know our child the best we can and use our own maturity and life skills to help our children realize their true potential. This has been our first college experience and we have twin 15 year olds watching all of this from the wings - we've all learned so much!

By Marylandmom (Marylandmom) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 08:29 am: Edit

"An application package should be put together as carefully as any business presentation; many fine students lose out to equally fine students who do a better job of selling themselves on paper." I saw this by Nymom on another thread. If this is true, then this is advice that parents and students should have as they begin this process.

As far as I know, the parts of my daughter's applications that were mailed were simply the appropriate forms and requested documents in an envelope. Should she have included EXTRA material, perhaps something "eye-catching" or colorful in terms of visual presentation, extra samples of creative writing, newspaper articles, diary entries, photos?

None of that occurred to me, and I don't think it occurred to her. How do admissions offices feel about extra "stuff", and where would this lead in terms of a student's "portfolio"? Gee, with her "desk-top publishing" abilities, my daughter could have come up with brochures and all kinds of creative, fancy stuff. I really am curious what might be appropriate in this regard!

By Wadad (Wadad) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 02:53 pm: Edit

Marylandmom,
I'm not sure that extra material is the point here. What should be done is to make sure the entire application is combed for typos, neatness, grammar errors, etc. (like any business presentation), and that the whole package fits together to portray the applicant in the best possible light. This means that the list of ECs, for example, is not just a random listing, but shows commitment, personal growth, etc. and is tied in with the other essays.

From what I've read, admissions officers don't really like the flashy extras - they are just a distraction. But the application, in all its parts, should put the applicants best foot forward, because those few pieces of paper are all that represent them in competition with many others of similar or higher achievement.

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 03:06 pm: Edit

I am an alumni interviewer for Harvard. I have heard directly from adcoms that the slickly packaged applications are tipoffs to them that students have been using private counselors, something that adcoms find to be a turnoff.

They are not looking for students who have been tutored on how to be a "good package." They want students who are interested in learning and will contribute to the Harvard community -- not students who have been told how to look like they are the type of person that they really are not.

I imagine that things like brochures about the candidate, etc., would be appropriate if a candidate was demonstrating their skills as a graphic artist or was applying as an art major or to art school. However, for most candidates such materials simply broadcast loud and clear that the candiate has been professionally advised, and what the adcoms see in the package may not reflect the real person.

By Nymom (Nymom) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 03:39 pm: Edit

Wadad, I agree, particularly with your comment that ECs should tie in with the essays. As for flashy extras, like any business presentation, the presentation should be appropriate for the occasion. A CD might be appropriate for someone with music ECs; poems & short stories for someone with an interest in creative writing. I'm not sure that brochures would be appropriate for anyone other than an art student or marketing major. My son is very interested in politics and government: in addition to his essays, which tied his ECs into his interests, he included several of the letters he had had published in various newspapers & magazines, two small op-ed pieces he had published, and an article (with picture and quotes) from our local paper about his participation in Boys State. (His GC reviewed everything and helped put it all together.) All of these materials related to things he wrote about in his essays, and showed that his interest spanned all his years of high school. In retrospect, he had alot of material to work with, but I think every application should aim to show the student's personality & uniqueness.

By Marylandmom (Marylandmom) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 07:34 pm: Edit

Wadad wrote, "What should be done is to make sure the entire application is combed for typos, neatness, grammar errors, etc. (like any business presentation), and that the whole package fits together to portray the applicant in the best possible light."

OK, I see. We got the "free from errors" part, but maybe didn't think of this as a "package" that should show the student as some kind of a unified "whole". Maybe that concept is something that should be included in advice to people starting this process.

By Wadad (Wadad) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 08:13 pm: Edit

I think there is a big difference between the highly selective colleges and the other 3000+. For the vast majority of colleges the application serves to show whether or not the applicant is qualified - that is if the high school curriculum, grades, SAT scores, etc. meet the standards of the college. These colleges usually have acceptance rates of over 50%, so if your qualifications are in the range, you just need to fill out the application and you will very probably get accepted.

It's an almost entirely different world for the highly selective schools, where acceptance rates range from under 10% (Harvard & Princeton) to under 30%. Many admissions directors have written that perhaps 80% of the applicants are "qualified," that is they would be able to do the work. So having the right courses, grades, scores etc. mainly ensures that your application doesn't get tossed out in the first cut. From there on your application is in competition with those of all the other qualified applicants. Since the admissions committees only have the pieces of paper in front of them, you need to do the best selling job you can. Hence the emphasis on hooks, and out-of-the-ordinary ECs. In the end, though, there is more than a little randomness in the process.

By Nymom (Nymom) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 09:30 pm: Edit

Packaging isn't only for applicants to the most selective schools. An application that highlights a particular strength can sometimes compensate for a weakness in another area, and enable a student to get into a school for which s/he might be somewhat out of range statswise. Admittedly, this is a waste of time with most large state universities, which base admissions almost exclusively on stats.

By Sluggbugg (Sluggbugg) on Thursday, April 17, 2003 - 02:22 pm: Edit

WOW, there is some great advice on this thread! *To Auto & Theasrhs, thanks for the nice reviews, re: "Emotional Intensity!"* To summarize the advice so far:

1. Press your child's high school for a challenging curriculum. Get involved. Talk to your kid's guidance counselor.

2. Keep track of the test schedules, i.e. ACT, PSAT, SAT I, & SAT II. Schedules are available in the h/s college/career office, or online.

3. Keep track of financial aid deadlines.

4. Cultivate relationships with teachers (good for teacher recs).

5. Take SAT II exams immediately following the related classes.

6. Prep for SAT's, PSAT, ACT. Read the pamphlets, purchase prep books, be well-rested, eat before.

7. Schedule tests for the afternoon instead of early morning.

8. Read up on college admission reqs. for the elite colleges.

9. Read up on the admission reqs. for non-elite colleges. Lots of good ones out there!

10. Communicate with other parents online.

11. Define "reach" schools as less than 25% admission rate.

12. Be realistic about chances of admission. Choose safeties carefully.

13. Application package needs to identify the uniqueness of the student. There are a lot of applicants with great scores & stats!

14. Early acceptance (different from binding early decision) is a good idea. Process could be over by December.

15. Apply to at least 2 safeties/2 matches/2 reaches. Recommend applying to 4 reaches.

16. Choose safeties that the student would actually want to attend.

17. Proofread essays.

18. Parents need to lighten up on rejections. Have an optimistic, positive attitude.

19. Start talking about college early, in middle school.

20. Middle school: start paying attention to the college "track." AP's in h/s depend on a progression of advanced classes that sometimes start in junior high, e.g. math/science, music, and foreign language tracks start early.

21. Support your child's interests early on. Get them involved (starting in middle school) in outside activities.

22. Know your child's counselor & make sure they know you.

23. Make sure your child understands the financial realities of his/her college choices. Choose at least 2 colleges on the match list that provide merit aid.

24. Keep written records of discussions with college financial aid depts.

25. If student is not a *math* kid, have a well-developed passion in some other area.

26. It's harder to get in everywhere, even more competitive than 3 years ago because of the post baby boom curve.

27. Parents need to be involved in the college admission process. Students generally want & need the help. Go online, read books, order college viewbooks, catalogs, etc.

28. Students need to make appts. with guidance counselors 1-2 weeks in advance. They are BUSY, especially between Sept & Dec. Be prepared with specific questions.

29. Some schools require a signed form from the student's g/c before requesting teacher recommendations. Start thinking about teacher rec's early. Don't expect teacher rec letters at the last minute. Time carefully around holiday breaks for Jan. deadlines. Write thank-you notes to teachers!

30. Assist your h/s student with class selections. Have a progression (freshman-senior year) in mind. Take advantage of summer courses.

31. Adcoms can spot a professionally produced application package a mile away. Don't overdo it on slick packaging. Flashy extras are sometimes considered a distraction. Extras are appropriate if it directly ties into the student's unique abilities, e.g. a DVD for a student applying as a film major at USC. Avoid being labeled as "DDI" (Dad Did It!).

32. The application package should emphasize the whole person. Avoid an overemphasis on appearances (i.e. an overly glossy presentation).

33. Tie the essay topic with the EC's.

I'd like to add the following to the list:

34. Know the lingo and the common acronyms:
LAC (liberal arts college)
FAFSA (Free Application for Federal Student Aid) adcom (admissions committee)
ECs (extra-curriculars)
g/c (guidance counselor)
SAR (Student Aid Report)
URM (under-represented minority)
ETS (Educational Testing Service)
legacy (family alumni)

35. Know the websites:
www.collegeboard.com --financial aid info; SAT/SATII/ACT/PSAT test schedules; advanced placement program, AP test info

www.fafsa.ed.gov --online financial aid application

wwwcollegeconfidential.com/discus/ --parent forum

36. Adcoms want to see "depth not width," in EC's. Show interest in a fewer number of areas over a period of years, rather than a whole bunch of varied activities over short periods time.

37. It's too late to start thinking about Ivies during junior year. Start gathering info during freshman year.

38. Make college visits before Senior year (before they start filling out applications). This will give them a much better idea of which schools they really want to apply to. Start fresh/soph years.

39. At your parent seminar, I think it would be helpful to have an MFCC talk to parents about overidentification during this process. Give parents tips on when it's necessary to push, and when it's appropriate to back off.

40. Some kids benefit, and for others, it's a waste of time to take SAT prep courses. If a student will do the homework and really wants to do well on the test, it's worth the money. But, check them out before you choose one. Get recommendations from other parents.

41. It's a nice touch to have students contact the collges where they've been accepted to let them know that they will not be attending.

By Anngold (Anngold) on Friday, April 18, 2003 - 12:01 pm: Edit

What is an MFCC?

By Sluggbugg (Sluggbugg) on Friday, April 18, 2003 - 07:40 pm: Edit

Marriage, Family & Child Counselor.

By Medprof (Medprof) on Saturday, April 19, 2003 - 01:37 pm: Edit

Jules07 posted this on another thread.

http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2001/09/flanagan.htm

Interesting article. Especially the part about college admission people being liberal and concious of class advantage enjoyed by some upper middle class kids. There's a suggestion about not revealing the parents' career accomplishments, otherwise the kid will have to really prove himself/herself. It's this character issue that is being emphasized at some schools, e.g. MIT.

By Anngold (Anngold) on Saturday, April 19, 2003 - 09:16 pm: Edit

Sluggbugg - Thanks for explaining MFCC. There are so many acronyms on this board that it is often hard to keep them straight.