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Finally got my son who is a senior to actually talk for about 1/2 hr about going somewhere possibly besides UT Austin. His mother and I are starting to think he would do better at a small school. He seems to be considering this.

Took the SAT once 770 V 689 M. Thinks he made some errors and can do better on the math. He is URM, Hispanic. I am Anglo, as we say in TX, though I grew up partly in Central America and speak pretty good Spanish. Mother is Hispanic from TX border. Now says he doesn't want to go to Harvard. They just want him because of URM as he is only in top 15%. Doesn't feel good about this. Has long self identifoied as Hispanic, partly because he looks very Hispanic. Funny as he identifies more with old dad, perhaps not quite as much?
Hasn't taken any SAT II's. Frankly is not extraordinarily motivated especially wrt to college application type stuff.

Is some of his time and our effort to motivate him best spent trying to retake the SAT I? I assume his rank and ec's are fairly fixed at this point.

Open to suggestion on liberal LAC's with good merit aid as we won't qualify for need.

By Mini (Mini) on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 05:56 pm: Edit

Subject interest? Earlham has a terrific border studies program -- would bring him back home, but would be applying language/sociology/economics/government in new ways. A GREAT school - very liberal, lots of merit aid.

But the reality is that there are probably 50 or 60 fine LACs out there with merit aid who would love a URM with 1450 board scores. So what's he into? (the only thing you've told us is "small school", and "liberal".)

By Dstark (Dstark) on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 06:03 pm: Edit

Knowing so little about your son, have you looked at Macalester?
Nice write up in US News Best Colleges Issue.
Also Wesleyan, Occidental, and why not Brown ?

By Marite (Marite) on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 06:08 pm: Edit

I think there are plenty of great schools that would be very happy to admit your S. 770V, that's a great score.
The question is how comfortable would he be in those schools? Bowdoin and Bates have been trying very hard to admit URMs, but that's partly because they have so much trouble getting students from other parts of the country and of different ethnicities to come. Would he consider Wesleyan? It has a sizable URM population, and is as liberal as they come. Brown, too, has made a great effort to admit URMs and already has a diverse population. BTW, I don't think Harvard wants your S only because he is a URM, but that's okay. Not everyone has to like Harvard!

By Texdad (Texdad) on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 06:13 pm: Edit

Thanks for the suggestions. Just bought the US News and Newsweek issues this weekend. My wife and I loved the write up on MacAlester. Did feel sort of sorry for the 8-10 Repub kids s with their wiener roast! A lot of motivation for the anti-war kids to be camping out in the Minn cold.

A lawyer's kid I know just went to Earlham I think. Last I heard it was at least his parent's choice.

My son is into computer gaming, (unfortunately) tennis and social service, particularly with Hispanics, to keep up his Spanish. Seems to like history and social sciences best.

By Mini (Mini) on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 06:21 pm: Edit

Both Macalester and Earlham would be great choices! Both are heavy into social service, as part of their core commitments. The third school I would add is Occidental. Very diverse, fine academics, and strong community service/outreach in a predominantly Hispanic community.

Here's the Earlham stuff on border studies:

http://www.earlham.edu/~borders/

By Texdad (Texdad) on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 06:22 pm: Edit

He had a supervisor in his serice project this summer in Mexico, also half Hispanic, who is now soph at Brown. Really cute, nice girl. He realy liked her and she loves Brown. He might be interested in Brown , but perhaps for the wrong reason. lol It sounds great to me.

Is the 1500 a big deal? For merit aid? I think he could make it if he would bother to practice the problems a bit more. Realistically would probably have to put him in a course to make him practice the problems. He did go to the Princeton Review last summer and more or less went to most of the classes. Otherwise the problems don't interest him at all.

PS I know this is late in the game, but he wasn't interested hardly at all till a week or two ago.

By Texdad (Texdad) on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 06:29 pm: Edit

I looked at the Border studies program at Earlham. Funny thing one of the professors worked at a non profit immigration clinic along the border that I am very familiar with and have done some work with in the past.

If it were me, I would go for warm weather. I guess I'm just a wimp. Thinking selfishly (the rest of you all seem so selfless) maybe cold would be best as it would bring him back home to Texas after college.

By Mini (Mini) on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 06:46 pm: Edit

No merit aid at Brown. (Great school! no money.)

1450 for URMs are rare. 1500 for URMs are even rarer. 1450-1500s from students in south Texas puts him in rarefied territory. Yes, every little bit helps. A great essay would help more. Service ECs would help even more. At Earlham, I can say with some degree of certainty (the dean of admissions is a personal friend) that the essay and service would count far more than the 50 points. Can't say about the others (but I expect they'd say the same.)

Occidental can be HOT! (Indiana, too, but not in winter.)

By Texdad (Texdad) on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 06:48 pm: Edit

Actually we live in Houston-- almost South Texas.

Mini, you seem to like Earlham so much. Any personal experience with it?

By Cheers (Cheers) on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 06:49 pm: Edit

What about USC? Warm weather, diverse school, diverse city, good cinema school (slightly related to gaming)...some serious merit aid based on SAT scores.
http://afaweb.esd.usc.edu/dcpage2.cfm?PageBaseID=50223#trustee

By Mini (Mini) on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 06:55 pm: Edit

Lots of experience with Earlham, over three decades. I'm a Quaker (though I was an undergrad at Williams back in the dark ages.) What would you like to know? You can e-mail me privately. Or if you'd like to call and kibbitz, get my number off my website - www.skylarksings.com - will be home this evening.

By Texdad (Texdad) on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 07:00 pm: Edit

Thanks folks. I intend to contribute a little more to the forum. I have an undergrad in engineering, half an MBA and a law degree so can comment on some of the issues raisd in other forums. I personally just pretty much went to whatever school was cheap, close and easy to get into. I have to admit, though, that I was a more motivated highschool student (though not as happy) as my son back in the day.

By Anxiousmom (Anxiousmom) on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 07:04 pm: Edit

Trinity in San Antonio is good - and offers lots of merit aid. It would certainly be a safety for him. Since you are in Houston, you already know about Rice; DD is now there and is loving it, everyone that we know who went there is loving it. Not a sure thing for admittance because they like top 10%, but they do look at the whole person. We also loved Carleton in Minnesota (really, really cold - and needbased only aid, but a cool place).

By Texdad (Texdad) on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 07:09 pm: Edit

How do you delete a stupid post? See the last one.

Rice, it too conservative and too close. The college system has in the past made the few liberals reluctant to open their mouths IMHO. My next door neighbor is a Rice prof who says it is changing as more kids come from outside TX.

By Tsdad (Tsdad) on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 07:38 pm: Edit

As a "Trojan Parent," I second the suggestion on USC. Large, but not too large. Lots of Texas kids go there.

By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 07:55 pm: Edit

I'd also suggest one of the Claremont Colleges in Calif - Pomona, Pitzer or Claremont-McKenna. And Whitman College in Washington state is VERY interested in diversity and is an excellent school with some unique programs (I would like to go back to college just to enroll in their semester in the west program in which students travel with teachers to various places around the west studying environmental and political issues on site).

In Texas, he might visit Southwestern University or Trinity University - both are excellent schools and offer solid merit money to students like your son.

If he doesn't mind being in Iowa, Grinnell might be a good match as well.

By Momrath (Momrath) on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 12:27 am: Edit

Your son's SATI scores are wonderful and will not stand in his way for admissions or merit aid. Having said that, if he thinks he can improve the math score, he should go ahead and take it again. He loses nothing by this (colleges only use the highest scores) and may benefit.

As a general statement all LACs are HUNGRY for URMs, Hispanics included. There are many, many fine colleges all over America that would be very interested in your son and again, as a general statement, most are liberal. So it's really up to him (with you as the prod!) to start researching and visiting. I'm a great fan of the small LAC; they're not for everyone, but I think it's great that your son is open to discussion.

Aside from scores, grades and rank, the top LACs are looking for good recommendations, essays, and extra curricular activities. Would your son be interested in playing varsity tennis? This would give him an additional hook. Start thinking about how to work up a focused and articulate application. Your son needs to develop a persona on paper, e.g., he's the Hispanic kid with great scores, who also (blank). Fill in the blank with something interesting and he'll have many options.

Merit aid is difficult to predict and the ivies and most selective LACs don't offer it at all. Need based financial aid is something else altogether. Are you sure you wouldn't qualify? As many parents on this board can testify, financial aid offers are negotiable, especially in order to boost the school's diversity percentages.

I'd second the recommendations for Pomona and Wesleyan and would add Swarthmore and Haverford.

As far as the weather goes, kids don't seem to mind. We live in the tropics and our son goes to school in the NE snowbelt. It's been a positive experience for him.

By Mom101 (Mom101) on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 12:52 am: Edit

For several years I have worked with groups of URMs, through a foundation, in the college application process. In my experience, URMs with good grades, rank and over 1400, with a good application, have gotten into the very top schools routinely. Our kids are not in need of merit money however. My favorite of the kids I worked with last year, an ultra political, liberal Latina, fell in love with Columbia and will attend. It was interesting though, Davidson gave her pause. She felt there was some very kindred spirits there and the school could have used her influence. They really wanted her, too. You may want to have a look.

By Mini (Mini) on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 12:56 am: Edit

But I think it is true that of Wesleyan, Pomona, Carlton, Columbia, Davidson, Pomona, Swarthmore, Haverford, and Brown, not a single one offers merit aid, and the merit awards at Claremont-McKenna are tiny.

There are so many wonderful schools that do, so why not just focus on them? I think it would be a terrific strategy just to focus on the best schools that provide substantial merit aid. Edcuational quality for your son is not likely to suffer one bit, and, in many instances, if there is any gap at all, (which I doubt), it would be more than made up for by the special attention merit aid attendees often get at the best schools.

The hard part of course is just simply finding the one "that fits".

By Farawayplaces (Farawayplaces) on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 01:29 am: Edit

I noticed Grinnell was mentioned in the mix. They have an extremely healthy endowment (thanks, Warren Buffet!) and do offer merit aid, though I'm not sure how much. A friendly school that works hard at diversity, and is very socially conscious. My daughter spent spring breaks in Oregon and in Michigan working on Habitat for Humanity projects on mostly Grinnell's dime. Tough academics, though!

By Reidmc (Reidmc) on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 01:34 am: Edit

Grinnell appears to offer more merit aid than its peer schools and is currently working very hard to diversify its student body.

Macalester is not as big on merit aid, but does have some at $3,000-5,000 per year including some specifically designated for AfAm, Latino and Native American students.

Two very different locations/settings but two excellent LACs. Not an impossible pair to visit over a few days, either. Fly to Mpls visit Macalester; rent a car to Grinnell; return to Houston via Des Moines. Last time I looked at trips like this the fares were the same as round trips as long as they were booked 14 days in advance and had a Saturday night stayover.

As for the SAT I question. . if he did do the Princeton Review course before he took it the first time I'd think time this Fall might be better spent keeping his grades up and studying for any SAT IIs or AP tests that he ends up taking. And per above, getting into the application essays.

By Dstark (Dstark) on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 01:40 am: Edit

How much could the OP's kid get at Tulane?

By Cheers (Cheers) on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 01:47 am: Edit

Here's a pic of Tulane's merit awards. Texdad, your intuition that a few more points on the SAT is justified....

http://www.tulane.edu/%7Eadmiss/admission/prospective/entering/fin_aid.html

And S will have to jumpt up a level to wealthier schools to get the big merit awards. Listing the USC ones below. They give out 100(!) full tuition awards!! Cha-ching!$$!

http://afaweb.esd.usc.edu/dcpage2.cfm?PageBaseID=50223#trustee

By Dstark (Dstark) on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 01:54 am: Edit

Nice links, Cheers.
I see that USC also has half scholarships for Hispanic scholars.

By Alexandre (Alexandre) on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 03:05 am: Edit

Grinnell is awesome and generous. It is in fact my favourite LAC.

http://www.grinnell.edu/offices/financialaid/typesofaid/scholarships/

Rice is a great university and it is already more than $10,000/year cheaper than most private universities. But Rice too gives some merit aid.

http://www.futureowls.rice.edu/futureowls/Merit_Scholarships.asp?SnID=1036960358

Emory, UNC-Chapel Hill and Washington University give a lot of Merit aid too, but they usually have very high standards.

By Rhonda63 (Rhonda63) on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 08:33 am: Edit

I didn't read the whole thread but someone may have mentioned this -- Brown also does not have merit aid, so if you're going to need that, keep that in mind (same for Harvard, of course, which you seem to be interested in for him, so perhaps you would be able to pay full fare?).

By L_J (L_J) on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 09:18 am: Edit

the sat score is very good, with urm status your son can go anywhere he wants in my opinion. the big question is how are you going to motivate him to take full advantage of the oppurtunity he has. its one thing for all the nice people here to point out all the wonderful schools he could get into, its another thing for your son to sieze the moment and become a passionate participant in the college selection process

I think some kids just get real comfy with thier current situation and take the easy path like in this case going to University of Texas.

I wish I had an answer on what you can do to motivate your son to explore the possibilities. I would wager that you would love to hear him say, "oh by the way dad I signed up to take the SAT ll's today because they might be required at some first rate schools" rather than you having to sit him down and explain to him that while the SAT ll's are not necessary they might be helpful in giving him the broadest range of options come decision time on which school to choose.

good luck. the bottom line though is UT is not a poor choice at all, there are hundreds of kids who wish they could go there

By Idler (Idler) on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 09:18 am: Edit

689?

By Alongfortheride (Alongfortheride) on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 11:07 am: Edit

Texdad, Tulane has a great South American Studies program. Also, a 1450 puts him in tbe Deans Honor Scholar and Distinguished Scholars Award range. The Deans is full tuition and the DSA is 18,000 a year. My son headed out to Tulane from the Dallas area this fall. About 15% of the students there are from Texas and quite a few from the Houston area. The founder of Netscape and the co-founder of Yahoo just gave $30 million each to Tulane. The $60 million will be added to the endowment and the income is to be used to perpetuate the large merit scholarships that Tulane offers.

Also, at the President's Convocation last weekend, the Provost announced that this is Tulane's most academically qualified class in its history. They didn't say this was the largest class, but the yield was slightly higher. Just over 1600. The class was selected from the top 4% of college bound seniors. The mean SAT was over 1325 and 1344 in engineering.

As to cheers post, Tulane is in lock step with wealthier schools, if not ahead of most. They give out 100 full scholarships a year, and at one point, I heard that half of the freshman class was there on merit or athletic scholarships. The Engineering Scholars reception was composed of the TECHS students. They are the winners of the top two scholarships - the DHS and DSA. There were 55 students there out of a frosh engineering class of 205.

Tulane has info sessions in the fall and the campus is not a long drive from Houston. It is worth a look see. The academics are intense, but it sounds like your son is more than capable, and the atmosphere on campus is totally laid back. The profs are very accessible.

By Texdad (Texdad) on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 12:26 pm: Edit

680 not 689, a typing error.

Thanks. I agree motivation is the key. He is a late bloomer and had problems with shyness that he is now overcoming. Grades were much better in junior year and he is starting to come around quite well.

In reality part of what happened is he was one of about 100 kids per year who got into his school through a magnet program and had to go across town to what is basically a large neighborhood school. After a year and a half of watching him struggle, while losing old neighborhood friends going to the local school, we finally moved into the zone. It has helped a bit. To this day he has no real group at school. He seems to have quite a few "friends" at school and the teachers think he is reasonably popular, though this has not translated into hardly any getting together after school. He feels the only scene that is accessible is the heavy partying scene, which his school friends aren't into.

He realizes now that he should have joined a lot of clubs, particularly the type with heavy after school involvement when he was a freshman. We urged it repeatedly at the time, but couldn't get him to do it.

The shyness, though becoming rapidly overcome, a main reason why we are now thinking small school.

By Dstark (Dstark) on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 12:30 pm: Edit

Sounds like he should apply to both big and small and see how he develops.
Kids change a lot senior year.

By Texdad (Texdad) on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 01:13 pm: Edit

Well he still might go to UT with his parents approval, especially if he gets into an honors program. He has a lot of cousins and support in Austin and it is close to Houston.

Dsark,why did your daughter go to Mich.? Seems like an unusual choice for a Californian.

By Dstark (Dstark) on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 01:30 pm: Edit

She wanted a school with strong school spirit and strong academics. Newsweek named it one of the 25 hottest colleges...strong in Greek life and academics.
At the time she applied she was adamant. She didn't care about sororities. Now she is going to look at them. Kids change their minds.
She was thinking of becoming a business major and Michigan has a strong business school.
Now, she isn't sure, but she likes the fact that there are many choices at Michigan.
She wanted a different experience than she already had by living in Cal.
Michigan has 8000 out of state kids. That appeals to her.
She is looking forward to living in four seasons of weather.
She loves Ann Arbor. When she visited the school she loved the school spirit.
Half the kids were wearing Michigan clothes.
She wanted a school that has a strong Jewish presense, but also has diversity.
She wants to be around people of many cultures.
Michigan has that.
The Michigan people she knows love the school and have told her she must go there.
Employers have told her it is a great place to go.
When she visited the school she felt the students were very bright and wanted to have fun.
Michigan is a big school, knows it and has many programs to make it small.
When I visited Michigan, I liked it very much.
I could live there (I'm not sure about the winters).
I told my daughter I would like to move there for 4 years. I could save the out of state tuition.
She said no chance in hell.
http://suddenlyorange.com/stream/umich2.php?bw=256k

By Texdad (Texdad) on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 02:03 pm: Edit

I told my daughter I would like to move there for 4 years. I could save the out of state tuition.
She said no chance in hell.
********
lol Nice try!

By Texdad (Texdad) on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 02:25 pm: Edit

ps slick move by Michigan.

Cal and TX don't take that many out of state. Of course people are trying to move here.

By Dstark (Dstark) on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 02:32 pm: Edit

From my daughter's 300+ senior class, 3 kids are going to Michigan (1 deferring), and 2 are going to Texas.
About 50 of the top 100 students are going to the UCs.

By Dadofsam (Dadofsam) on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 04:37 pm: Edit

Texdad: if your son can stand Minnesota winters, then you might also look at Brandeis (outside Boston) and Rochester. His SAT score should produce merit aid in the $ 10,000+ range at either, if addmitted. Both are fine schools in both physical and social sciences (particularly poly sci and economics). Both also boast of their community sevice programs and I'd bet that there are significant Spanish-speaking communities in both areas where he could be of assistance.

By Cheers (Cheers) on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 06:37 pm: Edit

Texdad, Are you going to visit schools with your S? I think you'll find that shy guys can find a place at mid-size universities.

Might be a good motivator as well...he might fall in love with one of the schools.

By Texdad (Texdad) on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 07:44 pm: Edit

Yeah, I'm going. We went to Tulane when in New Orleans at Spring Break. Had gone to UT and Southwestern in the year before that. He wasn't showing much enthusiasm for any of them, but I don't think he was ready. In April he said out of the blue he wanted to go to UT. Deadlines tend to focus your attention. He seems to be rapidly maturing.

I can't believe I'm the only one with this type of issue.

One thing is for sure-- no ED for him.

By Dstark (Dstark) on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 07:46 pm: Edit

You are not the only one. You are in the majority.

By Dstark (Dstark) on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 08:05 pm: Edit

Texdad, your turn. What did you think of Tulane?
What did you think of New Orleans? Highlights and lowlights.

By Interesteddad (Interesteddad) on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 08:25 pm: Edit

I would add to the chorus that your son has great SAT scores.

As an aside, you son is, by no means, the only person in the history of college applications who doesn't want to go to Harvard. I interviewed as a high school junior 35 years ago and couldn't stand the place. I liked Yale a lot better (it was my second choice).

My wife works at Harvard and thinks it's a wonderful place in many ways. She doesn't think its undergrad academics are the equal of the best undergrad schools in the country, however.

By Alongfortheride (Alongfortheride) on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 10:58 pm: Edit

Texdad, there are dozens upon dozens of parents with seniors at my daughter's school who are in your shoes. No idea of where they want to go. Scarlet O'Hara would really be proud of some of them! Seriously, same happened with son's senior class. They all seemed to see things very clearly by the approach of RD deadline and ended up in schools that fit them very well. Your son will have a moment of clarity very soon. It may be that he is even more determined to attend UT. It is a great school.

By Texdad (Texdad) on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 11:25 pm: Edit

First, it is hard to be objective. I always liked New Orleans, but this trip I decided I don't like the city that much. Just a fun place to spend a couple of days partying . I wouldn't mind doing that again. Except for the French Quarter and the area around Tulane the city looks poor and run down.

I met a girl going to the University of Houston who transferred from Tulane and said she hated the whole tourist/ party atmosphere.

Tulane's business school had a new building. Very nice. They had an actual stock trading floor with tickers and big screen TV's on the walls that looked very real. The student center is in a temporary building and they are building a new one so I guess it will be done by next school year. They had a new workout facility that was on par with a fancy health club.

It was the first and only formal tour we've had and the girl who led it was a freshman and not that knowlegeable. With my son acting less than enthusiastic it was hard for me to be so also. The students certainly looked happy enough walking around and in the rec center. They had a couple of nice quadrangles with pleasant enough old buildings. Obviously much more money than the Catholic school next door whose old administration building probably outdid Tulane's, which is literally next door on St, Chaarles Avenue and acorss from the principl nice city park.

Not fair to Tulane probably, but except for some of the grad programs like the good Public Health School, which I have so many good things about, I wouldn't go there. Certainly Austin is a much more upbeat city. I would choose UT or even Southwestern over Tulane.

By Alongfortheride (Alongfortheride) on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 09:58 am: Edit

Texdad, to each his own. Son loved Austin, just thought UT was too big and turned down engineering honors there. Spent a day in the engineering department at Tulane being shown the research projects and loved it. (It was not part of a tour, they just took time for him.) We also have found so much more in New Orleans than the French Quarter. There's a party to be found in NO if you are looking for one, to be sure, but many of the students find something else to do. But like I said, to each his own and good luck to your son!

By Dstark (Dstark) on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 10:02 am: Edit

Texdad, For some reason the trading floor appeals to me.
Sounds like one school off the list.

By Cheers (Cheers) on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 05:47 pm: Edit

Hard to find a passion for social justice in "upbeat" (upscale?) environments, but easy to discover it in New Orleans, one of the most fascinating social and political cities in the US.

With time running out, seems like UT will be the school...