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Soozievt---Alexandre recommended me to ask you about whether or not UMich will be a match for me (it's at the Individual Schools-US 25 Top, or something, forum)--- I wanted you to check my stats out, since Alexandre said you knew a lot about Umich... If you could, that would be great

To anyone else, I'm also planning on doing Northwestern Early Decision... But I'm not sure if I'd be wasting an early decision if I were to be rejected no matter what... So could you also help me out with that?
Other schools I"m considering:
University of Virginia (out of state)
New York University

Here are some of my EC's that I'm planning on choosing from to put on my Michigan application... If you would be willing to, would you help me select the top eight you think would benefit me in admissions? Thanks

In the parentheses are the grades that I participated in the activities, and after that are the number of hours a week//number of weeks in a year

1. Violin Lessons for 13 years (9~12)- 10 hrs//50 weeks a year

2. Member of a praise band (9~12)- 4 hrs//54 weeks a year

3. Volunteer at local hospital (12)- 3 hrs//45 weeks a year ***I started going to orientation meetings since my junior year... so should I list this as a junior year activity also? Also, I'm not sure how many weeks a year I'll be actually volunteering- so I basically guessed 45 weeks... Is that OK?

4. Tutored English for 2nd and 3rd graders who had just moved to the United States from Chinese (9)- 2 hrs//36 weeks a year

5. Mentor for an elementary school kid appointed to me by the school (11, 12)- 1 hr//32 weeks a year

6. Soup Kitchen Volunteer, and helped coordinate the Soup Kitchen trips (9, 10)- 3 hrs//6 weeks a year

7. Helped coordinate a Youth Leadership Conference (12)- 3 hrs//5 weeks a year

8. Missionary trip for 7 days where we repaired homes (repainted, re-did roofs), and lead a Vacation Bible Study for neighborhood kids, I participated and helped plan for this several months in advance (9)- 1hr//5 weeks for planning, and slept at the actual missions site for one week

9. Leader/Counselor for a camp-like program offered in my neighborhood (11)- it was only for three days, but I slept at the camp and was a counselor to a group of kids

10. Concert Band, Symphonic Band, Wind Ensemble where I was 1st Trumpet for Concert and Symphonic Band, 2nd Trumpet in Wind Ensemble during Junior Year, and 1st Trumpet in Wind Ensemble during Senior Year (9~12)- 1 hr//36 weeks

11. National Honor Society Treasurer (12)- I'm not sure how many hours a week will be put into this.. I'm guessing not very many, considering it IS.. the National Honor Society.

12. Theater Business and Costumes Crew (10)- 3 hrs//12 weeks


My SAT scores
1st: 1190- 570V,620M
2nd: 1380- 630V,750M

ACT: 28
Broken down something like...
30Math
30Reading
28Writing
24Science

How do you figure out GPA's? Because I have semester grades- example: Instead of one final A or B in a Math class, I have two A's.. One for the conclusion of each semester.
But my rough estimate of what my GPA right now is something like
3.9something weighted
3.8 or 3.7something unweighted

I think I'll have semi-okay recommendations...
All of my teachers just know me as me, not someone that particularly stands out. So I'm going to give my recommendation to my Integrated 3 Math teacher, because I've gotten nearly all A+'s in all of his tests, etc. etc. ... And I'm getting a supplemental recommendation from my violin teacher, whom I know will write me a good one.

My classes have nearly all been Honors classes since freshman year, except for 9th grade English, 10th grade Biology, and I didn't take a science class in junior year. I've only had two AP classes, and will be taking only one AP class-AP Spanish- next year.

I'm thinking about double majoring at LSA and Music... Is it a whole lot of work and worth the time? And I'm really 'passionate' and what not for music.. but I'm not exactly sure if I want to be only a music major, so I was thinking about the double majoring...

Thanks in advance for all your help!

By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 10:00 pm: Edit

I'm not Susan but one piece of advice if you plan on applying to UMich - admissions decisions are made on a rolling basis - in other words as they come in. Therefore, it is to your definite advantage to apply EARLY to U of Michigan, even if you are applying ED to Northwestern. By early, I mean as soon as October or November.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 10:24 pm: Edit

Hi there. Let me say that Alexandre knows WAY more about UMichigan than moi! He went there! But yes, I have a child who will be applying there next fall so we have looked into it. We just made the arrangements to visit next month and I will be more familiar afterwards. Also, the part about UMich I know the most about is what my child is looking into which are specific BFA programs in musical theater. She has to go where those programs are located as there are not that that many of them. So, it is not like she picked out UMich as some favorite school out of hundreds of schools in the country, but rather picked it from among the small number that offer this degree. Thus we know a little more about this training program than the entire university.

Stuck, I really love helping kids. I certainly enjoy assisting them in the college admissions process. This may be hard for you to understand but I have chosen to not really participate in "what are my chances" or stats evaluations on the message boards. There are tons of them and once I start doing them, I know many more will ask for help and I just do not have the time to do that on top of my normal work and responsibilities. My time on the message boards is kinda more for me to veg out and discuss things with students and parents and often, I do try to help others in a general sense. But I have drawn the line at stats evaluations and essay editting on message boards. I will not be able to handle the many that will ask for this once I start. If I help one, I would want to help all. I tend to like to do things very thoroughly and in your case, as in others, I would want to ask many questions and research things and evaluate them and get back to you with specific feedback. That takes a lot of time. I just am not willing to do it and I don't like doing things half-baked either.

Since you called on me specifically and I don't wanna be a total meanie....lol....I will give you the most general feedback but it is not as complete as I would do if I really was doing this effectively (on top of needing more information to do it effectively)....

First, let me say congrats on the great improvement the second time around on your SATs! Way to go!

To evaluate your academic record, I would need to see your transcript...grades, courseload....and school profile. I do not know if you took the most challenging load offered, close to it, or average. I don't know your rank. Too much is missing for me. It appears as if your grades are in the right ballpark for UMich. I don't have my college directories on this level of the house and am too lazy to go upstairs to get them at this hour, lol. But my gut feeling is that your SATs are also in the right ballpark for UMich. So, it appears that this college is likely a match for you.

I am unclear how that double major would work at Michigan. I think you need to apply to specific schools there, no? Again, I would have to research their website thoroughly. I know my daughter has to apply to the School of Music specifially to the BFA degree program in Musical Theater where they only take about 20 kids. Even to be allowed to audition, she first must pass admissions to be granted an appointment. So, not everyone who applies even gets that far. I am more familiar with her process or degree program and thus would have to research your goals. I know to get into the School of Music on an instrument you have to audition. Please visit that department on the website to learn more about that process. I am not sure about the double major there. I would think if they even allow it, you still would have to audition to get into the school of music. I do not want to steer you wrong. In most schools, if you are only going for a BA program, you might not have to audition but you do for BFA degrees or Bach. of Music degrees. OK, since I am concerned that I will steer you wrong, I just looked in the brochure from the School of Music that my daughter has here. The only way you could do what you are talking about there is to do what is called a Bachelor of Musical Arts, OR a Dual Degree program. The dual degree program between the School of Music and another school at UMich would take longer than 8 semesters and likely more like 10 or 11. You need to research all of this at every school you are looking at. You can't just like the school and say you want to double major. Read and investigate in DEPTH. By the way I don't know what LSU stands for.

You asked me if I would identify the top 8 of your ECs to list on the application. I will try to do that but it really is more important that you pick the 8 that meant the most to you and you did the most with. I only can go by the hours practically. By the way, one of your ECs has 54 weeks in a year! lol In any case, even if you fill in 8 things on some chart on an application, I recommend attaching a more complete activity/award list that is comprehensive and is annotated. My daughter just composed hers for all colleges this past week. It is a document that really shows her life outside the classroom. My D who is about to enter college as a freshman also did this with every college. I'd like to see you do it too. Another thing is that you can't assume all who read your app will know what you mean or are familiar with these activities...for instance, I do not know what a praise band is. You need to explain it.

The ECs you want to emphasize are ones you have done for the longest time, more years, longer and more involved committments, etc. In my opinion, #1, 2, & 10 are your biggest ECs and even all relate. It shows a passion for music and I would group them together. Think about grouping community service things together too. I would try to group #4, 5, 9 together as mentoring children. Each one alone is not that significant but together they show a pattern/interest. IF you have to take some off, the ones I would suggest are 6,7, 9, 11. But if you do an organized "resume", they all can go on and be grouped in certain ways. Also NHS does not have to be under activities but can be under achievements/awards and not use up a line for the activity list, just a thought. I think my older D had that under awards and then she may have had her "service project" under her community service activities.

Well, that is about as much as I can do for now as a general comment type thing. Sorry about the rest.

Susan

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 10:28 pm: Edit

I did not see Carolyn's post before I posted but thanks, Carolyn for bringing that up. My D likely will apply ED to NYU (though we are visiting UMich before that decision on her end must be made to be sure), but will try to work on getting both apps in during October because of the rolling admissions at UMich and advice I have read to have it in by then. I am glad you mentioned it to this young person.

Susan

By Browninfall (Browninfall) on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 10:44 pm: Edit

As someone who has a graduate degree from Michigan and a daughter who graduated from U of M in 2001 (and a nephew who was ranked by the Michigan Athletic Department as one of their Top 25 athletes in 2003-2004!), I can only tell you that it is a wonderful and amazing place. My daughter was a recruited athlete by Michigan this past year and it was mildly disppointing for her mother and myself that she chose to go elsewhere (she's off in two weeks to another great place, though, Brown - the women's rowing capital of America!!!).

By all means, consider Michigan. I have NEVER heard of anyone who was dissatisfied in their decision to go there. A great school in a great town.

By Stuckat410 (Stuckat410) on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 11:02 pm: Edit

Thank you SO much Susan... I've never had anyone evaluate my stats that thoroughly, even though you stated that you don't do them... Thanks a bunch. Also much thanks to Carolyn and Browninfall...

I visited Michigan this summer and wasn't that impressed by it, although it is my second choice college. My first choice is Northwestern... but I have high doubts of getting in there, even with Early Decision. But with reading Browninfall's comment, I'm hoping I will be satisfied if I end up going there also.

Thanks a lot everyone!

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 11:05 pm: Edit

Hey Browninfall, I was just mentioning you and your daughter to my husband tonight and have not seen you on here in a while but that is a funny coincidence. We were watching the Olympics and crew was on. I was telling him how last week my D got a letter from the crew coach at Brown! She has never done crew, but I realize crew is a sport only done at certain schools, such as prep schools or so forth. Anyway, it was like an invitation (not sure who they sent it to be am only guessing to girls who do athletics) to come out for the team as a walk on. It talked about the titles they have won and how many on these winning teams started out as freshmen walk ons who had not done crew before. Actually a girl we know at Penn on crew from our high school never did crew before college but was an ice hockey player. It was a really nice letter, well written. She won't be doing crew but I thought of your daughter! She has too many other things, including her own sports, she plans to do at Brown. What dorm did your D get? Mine is in Morris. She can't wait. Maybe they will meet one another one day!

I'm going to be visiting UMichigan with my other daughter in September and in fact, have never been to Michigan (the state).
Susan

By Browninfall (Browninfall) on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 11:37 pm: Edit

Susan - Daughter's in Mead House....I'll be back tomorrow, but good-bye for now. University of Michigan is "the best in the West". Go Blue.

By Momsdream (Momsdream) on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 12:36 am: Edit

(UMich - admissions decisions are made on a rolling basis - in other words as they come in. Therefore, it is to your definite advantage to apply EARLY to U of Michigan)

What other top school admit in this fashion?

By Alexandre (Alexandre) on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 03:38 am: Edit

Stuckat...you were more impressed by Evanston than you were by Ann Arbor or by Northwestern's campus than by Michigan's campus? That is not a common observation. I found Ann Arbor much more pleasant and fun than Evanston and Michigan's campus more impressive than Northwestern. Of course, Evanston is attached to Chicago, so that's a big plus. But it doesn't matter either way, both are excellent universities and will serve you well.

A tip for both schools (I got into both, and that's what I observed) as you fill in their application forms.

For Northwestern, make sure you take their essays very, VERY seriously. You have the grades and the scores. What Northwestern will be looking for, what will set you apart and get you in, is your essays. Northwestern likes original, creative and brilliant essays. But be careful not to write above your means. That is a mistake many applicants make.

For Michigan, apply as soon as possible. The Michigan application form is easy to fill. If you can, send your application in by mid-September. If you can do that, you will have a realstic chance with Michigan.

Also regarding Michigan, you can apply to both the LSA and Music schools by filling one little oval box! It is called the "Dual Unit" option, and it is a unique option for students wishing to double major, either in Music and Engineering or in Music and LSA. You will see it in the first page of your application form. You will also have to fill Music School Request for Audition form.

Good luck and keep us posted.

By Wjb (Wjb) on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 09:45 am: Edit

I agree that it's advisable to apply to Michigan (and all rolling admissions schools) as early as possible. But Alexandre, Michigan's application is not easy any longer. To comply with the Supreme Court's 2003 decision on affirmative action, last year the University added to its application 3 or 4 short, but rather oblique and tough-to-answer questions asking students to assess how they will contribute to diversity on the campus. My daughter applied to a number of schools last year, and although it was her safety school, she actually found Michigan's essays among the thorniest. Because of the sheer volume of applicants, Michigan adcoms may not be devoting as much time, or placing as much emphasis, on essays as adcoms at smaller schools. But the essays still have to be taken seriously.

By Thumper1 (Thumper1) on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 10:00 am: Edit

Also, if you plan to major in music at U Mich, you MUST audition and be accepted into the School of Music. To be honest, I'm not sure how easy it would be to double major with music as one of the majors. The course of study is very intense, and requires a LOT of those little one and two credit courses that meet daily (e.g. ensembles). You might want to inquire. Also, while U Mich has rolling admissions for the university, it does not for the music department because of the audition schedule.

By Browninfall (Browninfall) on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 11:00 am: Edit

Hi, Susan. My daughter told me that her roommate-to-be received the same letter from the crew coach that your daughter did. The rowing coach told us last year that he tries to get about 7-8 girls admittted to Brown each year who have rowed before (early decision only) and he tries to supplement them with a handful of girls who have never rowed before. He told me that some of his best rowers have been girls who had never tried it before. The coach seems like a terrific guy and he's obviously a good coach (he was recently selected as the NCAA women's rowing coach of the year!).

September is a wonderful time to be visiting Michigan - not too hot and usually sunny. Hopefully the weather will be nice. If there's any way possible for you to do it, you should try to time your visit with a Michigan football home game. There is NOTHING like it - even if you're not a football fan. 110,000 people in one place wearing maize and blue. Obviously there's some drinking before and after (tailgating), but it's typically not out of control - unlike other venues I've been to. It's just 110,000 people having a great time!

By Stuckat410 (Stuckat410) on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 11:12 am: Edit

thanks so much for all your help everyone!

and i've just gotten started on my Umich essay.. all i pretty much need to do is get crackin on the essays.

i have a question though-
in the activities section, there's a question that asks what activity i would like to continue doing, and why..
i wrote basically an essay on why i wanted to continue one of my activities... it's actually pretty lengthy, so i was going to type it and attach it to my app- is that a bad idea? should i shorten it?

thanks again!!!

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 11:19 am: Edit

Browninfall, yeah, that is how I read the crew coach letter. It may have gone to all freshmen girls, or just ones who have put down athletics as one of their activities. Actually, the varsity ski coach who my daughter met with in April, just quit! Are you going to the athletic meeting the night before "move-in"? We will be at that.

Actually we fly into Michigan on a Saturday, a home game day. My D is NOT into football at all and in fact, might even be turned off by that whole scene. We get in mid afternoon that day. She has contacted a girl we know in the program she is applying to and is looking into possibly getting together with her and staying in the dorm. We won't be able to do the college stuff til Monday, so will be on our own til then.

Unlike my other D's search, the actual program at the college in her field takes precedence. My older one was just majoring in her field of interest but it would not be her "professional training", but more of her liberal arts major that likely would lead to graduate school. This younger one, while needing to truly like whatever college she applies to of course, had her college list made up of schools that offered this professional training, and thus that is how they got on the list. A lot of the evaluation of fit will have to do with that program, and then the rest will also have to be considered. But the odds of admission at all these programs is in the single digit admit rate, and thus, it may come down to the program that chooses her, rather than vice versa, if you get my drift. Michigan is one of her preferred ones, however. Who knows who will admit her. The odds are daunting in this field. As well as having to get into the college academically, a lot is riding on what she does in five minutes of her life in that audition, which when I think about it, would stress me out if it were me. Thankfully, she has auditioned a lot in her life but never when the stakes were this high.

Susan

By Alexandre (Alexandre) on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 11:32 am: Edit

Susan, flying into Michigan on game day is not a good idea. 100,000 people drive to Ann Arbor for that game. Man is it going to be busy! Oh well, make sure you don't drive around before and after the game. And by the way, I thought football was pretty stupid too. All foreigners do. Michigan changed me. Even if your daughter hates football, if she ends up at Michigan, watch her morph into a football fan from hell! LOL

STUCKAT, printing it and attaching it is fine, but whatever you do, for the love of God, don't tell them that you do ANYTHING 54 weeks/year! LOL

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 11:41 am: Edit

Alexandre, I appreciate the heads up on the traffic, etc. But I do not have a choice as to this arrangement. Ideally we wanted to go afterschool on one day and home the next night, missing one day of school, plus one night of EC committments (who do NOT want the kid to miss). When I looked up the cost of those flights, they were ASTRONOMICAL. Then, we tried Sunday to Monday, which lowered it a bit, but still very high for two people. And this was with flying a compromising way, from VT to DC, then to Michigan! It had one advantage that she'd have some free time on Sunday, but a disadvantage missing what could be two rehearsals if she is cast in a show here (will need to list all conflicts at the time of auditions coming up and has other college trips too). Then, I looked into if we stayed a Saturday night, even though that meant two nights at a hotel. Well, it was a LOT cheaper and in fact, we could fly DIRECT...two hours of fly time rather than many more hours. It is still a very expensive 48 hours all totaled up to see ONE school and we have to go back to every school this winter for auditions. It is becoming costly for me. She has to have vocal and monologue coaching also. It is all expensive. So, cost and time away and missing school/rehearsals, etc. etc. all had to be factored in. So, I may be dealing with traffic but we will live. The time we arrive is mostly while the game is going in, I would bet. Might not be the very worst of it. There is nothing else I can do unless I want to make a 24 hour trip that is over 1000 dollars. Anyway, it is a done deal as everything is booked. Thanks for your apt advice however.

By Newnudad (Newnudad) on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 01:19 pm: Edit

Right On Stuckat! NU is WAY COOLER than U of M! I did Grad work at U of M in the 70's, and my Daughter will be going to NU this Fall, and NU is a much nicer campus. I like all your EC's, except for Bible School, but that's a personal issue /hot button for me, so moving on, I think you have what NU, and most colleges are looking for - a committed, industrious student that gives back to the community and will be a future difference-maker. Good For You!

By Hayden (Hayden) on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 01:33 pm: Edit

I went to U of M also, and absolutely loved it. I don't care what New Yorkers say about their pizza - AA had some great little pizza places. And what's better than walking on the Quad at twilight, with the lights beginning to come on and a few little snowflakes glittering in the air. Great place.

By Stuckat410 (Stuckat410) on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 05:05 pm: Edit

oh wow, i'm stupid.

i thought alexandre was just joking when she told me there were 52 weeks in a year in the other forum...

there're really 52 weeks?! oh my... thanks for pointing that out. now i'm really confused.. is it 52 or 54? someone just told me 56...

haha okay. thanks!

By Stuckat410 (Stuckat410) on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 05:09 pm: Edit

oh yeah- one more question..

if i were to take one more science (i'm currently taking one science class this year.. and it's not AP or honors.. and i've only taken 2 science classes thus far, one being honors, one being regular)- if i were to add an AP science class... would my chances at these schools be raised substantially? or is it not really going to help <I>that</I> much? because i know i don't have many AP classes... only one senior year.. but the problem was that when I moved after freshman year, my new school and old school had completely different leveling system in my spanish and math class- therefore was pushed back TWO years in math, and a year in spanish (discrepancies in their textbooks, levels, etc.)... and i took a summer school class to make up for the math, but still am a year behind.. and still i'm a year behind in spanish also- that's why i couldn't take AP Calc or AP Spanish by my senior year- should I also note this to the adcomms? and would it be beneficial to add another AP science class to my schedule? (with that AP science, i'd have a total of 4 science credits at the conclusion of senior year.. right now i only have two)

and as for awards that you list on an app... i have thinsg like a 3-year band award- for staying w/the band program for 3 years... is that worth mentioning? it seems like i'm just trying to take up space, doesn't it? things like... scholar athlete awards, awards given to me by the school for maintaining a 3.5 gpa... things like that... worth mentioning?

thanks a lot!

By Stuckat410 (Stuckat410) on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 09:13 am: Edit

bump

By Stuckat410 (Stuckat410) on Friday, August 20, 2004 - 01:47 pm: Edit

bump