Save your tuition money? Subsidize unpaid internships for y

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Discus: Parents Forum: 2004 Archive - Part 2: Save your tuition money? Subsidize unpaid internships for y
By Texdad (Texdad) on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 06:27 am: Edit

Let's face it. For many of us our concern with a good education for our kids is, at least in part, that is one way of insuring their future.

I read a very interesting article that argues that unpaid internships are often the gate way to the best jobs. The author sees problems. These internships are a class litmus test, as the working class student, even at prestigious colleges needs to work for pay. He argues that the more desireable the employer, the more they use unpaid internships and that 38% of them lead to jobs.

Now this might be my way of stacking the deck toward the hottest state university, lol, but it is interesting.

By Backhandgrip (Backhandgrip) on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 08:11 am: Edit

Thank you for this interesting article.I know folks who are mightly annoyed they have to pay for college credits for their student's unpaid senior internship in N.Y.C.It is a 'litmus test.' The organizations are sizing up the intern.It isn't like it used to be however, as I remember it.There is more diversity in terms of race than there was 25 years ago, especially in public institutions.

By Mom101 (Mom101) on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 08:20 am: Edit

Interesting, but the issue is that many great internships go to the connected, so actually by paying, you'll make the rich richer! You'll really like this one Texdad. In these trying times, private schools have gotten more creative about raising money. A new tactic that I've seen emerge strongly--auction off internships and shadowing opportunities. At a school in my area, a family paid $20K for their son's summer internship at a hot technology company. "A great investment", said the dad. I guess he was right!

By Backhandgrip (Backhandgrip) on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 08:24 am: Edit

Just want to add, an unpaid internship doesn't always result in a job at that particular organization. In fact, I know several local college grads who had rather nice internships at top organizations but were not hired.Sometimes I think these places take the interns as a 'favor' to the university-so the university has something to brag about their program,'look, NBC interns our students'.And the organization gets to really size up the candidate.Oftentimes, the jobs just aren't there.It depends upon need and the abilities of the intern-like is he a very fine law or accounting student.-Just what I have seen.

By Backhandgrip (Backhandgrip) on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 08:26 am: Edit

Yes, but did he get hired?I'd like to know if that really did pay off.

By Aparent4 (Aparent4) on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 11:35 am: Edit

I wonder whether future employers can spot the difference on a resume between a paid-for internship and a paying one. Or how would a student in the latter category make that crystal-clear without being, well, tacky?

By Mom101 (Mom101) on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 11:51 am: Edit

Backhandgrip, that remains to be seen but there's no doubt it will be impressive on a resume. Apaent4, there's no way on earth the money paid for that internship will ever again be mentioned if that kid can help it! I don't think employers much care if you got paid or not, but might actually be more impressed with the perceived dedication of kids who worked for free.

By Backhandgrip (Backhandgrip) on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 05:47 pm: Edit

Mom101;I'm thinking that the donation went to the school and the person sponsoring the internship probably is either an alum or has a child at the school. I would consider this a pretty good 'in'.I bet something may come of it.By the way, you must live in a pretty well to do area?Just wondering, what do you see as the next trend, considering where you live?What do see coming from your perspective?
It is sad that kids without a support system are busy driving a cab to make tuition payments while others are doing unpaid internships to develop the 'right' resume.But 'thems the brakes here in the good ol U.S.A.!'Life has so many unexpected turns anyway.

By Bern700 (Bern700) on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 05:55 pm: Edit

Backhandgrip: there are many ultra prestigious internships that PAY very well and are based on merit. Many of the investment banking internship available are open for all to apply in addition many of these Ibanks have internship programs for minorities. So in some industries the playing field is more even. Although, I wonder how many of these interns get the internships based on connections?

My friend who goes to Yale is not very wealthy but was able to get an internship at Citigroup in NY. They rented him an apartment, pay for his meals, and for the 10 week period he is getting paid $30,000. So pretty much he is paying for his tuition.

By Backhandgrip (Backhandgrip) on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 06:06 pm: Edit

And the keyword is grades, right?Was it his own perseverence in the search, the school, or was it his grades?And was he in grad school? Bet he was in grad school too.

By Bern700 (Bern700) on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 06:13 pm: Edit

No just a sophomore in undergrad at yale, studying polysci. He has decent grades 3.5ish. He just applied and got the job.

By Backhandgrip (Backhandgrip) on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 06:22 pm: Edit

This is my thought,when XYZ Co. saw Yale, great grades, they knew this was the guy they wanted. It's very difficult to get into Yale and it is likely that while there one will make some wealthy friends. This is what XYZ needs, clients, so of course if the fellow is brillant, personable and is well connected, this is who they need.
So it is unfair to any poor student who is barely getting by and has no rich friends or great grades (because he is sleepy from driving that cab all night)but that is how it goes in such a capitalistic country.Fortunately, if the poor college student works hard he too will make a fine living for himself, although of course not as well as the other.So all benefit from the prosperity of this country.

By Backhandgrip (Backhandgrip) on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 06:24 pm: Edit

So do you think it was the school, then?

By Backhandgrip (Backhandgrip) on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 06:26 pm: Edit

Or just the luck of the draw.Or the upturn of the economy? They must have liked something about him.

By Mom101 (Mom101) on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 07:49 pm: Edit

I think it was the kid and the school and the recognition that this is someone they would like to employ in the future. When I was in college I got some great unpaid internships through combing alumni records and calling. I wasn't rich but did them by living with many roomates and supplementing with a paying job at night. Banckhandgrip, the people "donating" these internships to be auctioned are indeed parents or alum of these schools. It's still a bit controversial though. Many kids at these schools are on scholarship or their parents are really scrimping for them to be there and can't spend money to buy internships even if it is a donation to the school.

By Bern700 (Bern700) on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 09:27 pm: Edit

one thing you have wrong backhandgrip is that ibanks don't really try to get individual clients. Ibanks go for corporations and they usually come to the banks (or other firms such as private equity funds come to the ibanks on behalf of these firms). Ibanking is not the same thing as being a broker. If it was a brokerage firm then you would be right.

Usually Ibanks recruit specifically from a few select elite schools (ivy's, top LACs, etc.) because they know that top students are there. So his decent grades, the fact that he went to an ibanking feeder school really helped him out. Now he's gone from a not so wealthy college kid to a relatively connected ibanking prospect who's future is really bright.

By Aparent4 (Aparent4) on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 09:46 pm: Edit

Bern700, I showed your post to my son and he tells me the following: summer interns at Citigroup's pre-senior year program are paid $10,000-$12,000 for the summer plus a small housing stipend. The starting salary for full-time analysts who have just graduated from college (including very elite colleges) at Citigroup is $55,000, with a signing bonus of $10,000 and a year-end bonus between $20,000 and $40,000, and that is for all departments from I-banking to equities. The salary you described your friend as getting, prorated over 1 year, is $150,000. That's about what a first-year MBA gets.

Are you sure your friend's information is accurate?

By Bern700 (Bern700) on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 09:49 pm: Edit

well that's what he told me, he's doing their minority intern program so I don't know if that is different??? Your numbers seem correct because i know one guy at goldman sachs and another at morgan and they get a housing stipend and about $12000-15000.

By Alan5 (Alan5) on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 10:02 pm: Edit

Getting paid internships is easy if you go to a school with an excellent co-op program. Most top companies treat co-ops like real employees which gives them a edge in post graduate employment. Difference between co-ops and internships:

Co-ops are superior but require more work.

By Fendergirl (Fendergirl) on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 10:26 pm: Edit

i have an internship right now, over the summer.. and it is paid :)

By Bern700 (Bern700) on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 10:59 pm: Edit

me too :)

By Bern700 (Bern700) on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 10:59 pm: Edit

Alan very subtle ;)

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 11:23 pm: Edit

Backhandgrip, I had to smile at your reference to cab drivers. My hubby went to a four year graduate school in a profession (his "training" included internships that were not paid). But throughout the four years of graduate school, he drove a cab in Boston. We were married that whole time as well.

By Backhandgrip (Backhandgrip) on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 08:28 am: Edit

You know, sometimes I think many in the currant generation have it much easier. I remember the incredible high housing rates of early 80's and how that influenced where we live today, the gas crisis of the 70's, waiting in line for hours. Working and going to school was a common thing, so many folks got their degrees at night. The world seemed less dangerous then, a kinder gentler place.

By Achat (Achat) on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 08:35 am: Edit

Bern, did/are you doing your internship in NY or in Phoenix? Curious again..

By Achat (Achat) on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 08:39 am: Edit

BHG, I remember my friends buying small apartments in Queens, NY in the late 70s early 80s with 16-17% mortgage rates. We were of course too poor to even contemplate such a move.

By Backhandgrip (Backhandgrip) on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 08:42 am: Edit

Bern; I have an aside question for you? If it were you, what would you have done on 9/11?Would you have been one of the ones to shrug you shoulders and go back on the elevator up to your office?Taking care of business? Or, would you have gotten the h--- out of there?
I feel very badly about those hard working and best and the brightest who perished.I feel very badly that they went after such hard working people.
I made a 9/11 Memorial Garden at out local park and tend it.Our township put up a sign.I thought it was important that our community, although there were no folks here really affected, be aware of the significance of what happened.I wanted the people here to not forget it or those who work so hard every day.

By Backhandgrip (Backhandgrip) on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 08:46 am: Edit

Achat; I know, who could afford to buy anything! It was terrible!And now everyone acts like J.C. is some kind of saviour!

By Backhandgrip (Backhandgrip) on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 08:47 am: Edit

Not The J.C.! Jimmy C.!

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 09:07 am: Edit

BHG, I got a chuckle on your post when you clarified which J.C. you meant! The first post I really thought you WERE talking of THE J.C. ! And then, I thought, uh oh, here comes a religious debate....and will it be longer than the income related one on this forum???? LOL

By Bern700 (Bern700) on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 12:13 pm: Edit

kind of a random question BHG, how does it relate to what we are talking about? I'll humor you anyway. Well most likely I would have tried to get out as quickly as possible but in the process I would have tried to help as many people that needed assistance and like you I also feel badly for those hard working people that were killed because of some fanatical lunatic's ideas.

Now, however, I think that it is important to show those that want to cause us harm that we are not scared and we will do anything in our power to crush them.

Achat: I'm doing my internship in Phoenix since I'm only going to be a freshman at Wharton and most NY internships are for older students. I will try to get one in NY next summer.

By Achat (Achat) on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 12:44 pm: Edit

Bern, good luck. I know as a Wharton student, you will get very good and meaningful internships. And congratulations on getting this one too.

BHG has a very good point about being happy with little. The 70s and early 80s were frustrating times but I remember being happy (and living on $500 a month including rent). And thanking the right JC would be great too! :-)

By Songman (Songman) on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 12:49 pm: Edit

What article I was directed to an anti-republican article about the RNC? What am I missing here?

By Backhandgrip (Backhandgrip) on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 12:42 am: Edit

Oh the reason I brought up what would you have done is because you are an investment person in N.Y.C.!There are many of these types that take their job VERY seriously and would just shrug their shoulders and get back on the elevator and go back to work even if they just saw a plane plow into the building next door! It's not they are insensitive, it's that they take their job SO seriously and their responsibilities. I was wondering about the mindset of these folks and that is why I asked!And of course I can see you had no idea what was running throught my head to ask! LOL
And how about you Songman; what would you do if you saw a plane just fly into the building next door and the PA sys. said, all is well here, you can return to your office.Would you have the foresight to leave or would your job responsibilities be so overwhelming you would go right back to work? I'm sorry about being off topic but this does give insight in the kind of folks that work in these positions and which often end up making huge amounts of money.There IS a tie in here!
Achat and Susan; At least we were safer back then- I think!(but Jimmy Carter is not my hero, not at all)

By Mom101 (Mom101) on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 02:10 am: Edit

Bern, havn't you read enough threads yet to know that IBANKER=EVIL. There's a direct correlation and most investment bankers would have never helped anyone on 911. Who was that arrogant character in a popular movie? He personifies ibankers. I think he ran over blacks, 911 is just the follow on. You are clearly one of the people behind the plot to keep the middle class down. You and all the other shallow, money pigs (on one thread a poster said the pigs, meaning CEOs, need to be slaughtered) ar Wharton (who else would go?), have a great freshmen year.

By Bern700 (Bern700) on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 02:14 am: Edit

mom101 lol!!! I know, I know I'm supposed to be evil. Don't worry that'll change over the next 4 years ;)

are you talking about the movie Wall Street with Michael Douglas???

By Mom101 (Mom101) on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 02:28 am: Edit

I can't remember the name of the movie, but the character's name is Sherman McCoy I believe. He takes an unfortunate wrong turn and ends up in the Bronx. They insultingly stereotype the Bronx as being full of black thugs (this being the most represented town in the freshman class at my daughter's "elitest" prep school) and a situation ensues in which all of NYC believes he tried to run over innocent kids. Just another day in the life of a typical NY ibanker!

By Mom101 (Mom101) on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 02:48 am: Edit

And Bern, in all seriousness, I would print this and some other threads and file away. At some point during your Wharton years they will form the basis for an important paper or event. It really is important to know how the world in general perceives you for aspiring to be to be an i banker, a CEO, a corporate lawyer....It's been pointed out to me many times on this board that many such professionals really don't have a clue. That's correct and a dialogue should be going on at Wharton and all B schools. There's is a huge divide and even bigger distrust. Corporate America needs to deal.

By Sybbie719 (Sybbie719) on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 02:33 pm: Edit


Are you talking about The Bonfire of the Vanities? great book, lousy movie

By Mom101 (Mom101) on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 04:01 pm: Edit

That's it!

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