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Over the past two weeks our family has received the best news we could have possibly expected; yet we are still facing a tough decision.

Two weeks ago my son received an acceptance letter from his top choice, a highly competitive private East Coast school that does not provide merit-based financial assistance. Since my wife and I have the fortune of holding on to two good jobs, the financial package offered to him consisted of a very small amount for work-study and a small loan. Over the weekend he received another acceptance letter, this time from an equally competitive private school in the West Coast, which is also offering him a scholarship that covers full tuition.

There is a clear difference between the schools, not so much on the academics, but in the location and type of college experience they offer. Since we leave in the East Coast we are naturally inclined to keep him close by. Financially, we have figured out we can stretch our budget and cover his first choice, with the caveat that this requires committing a substantial portion of future income (which in the current job market introduces a fair degree of uncertainty), as well as having him take on a debt roughly equivalent to one year of school. By contrast, accepting the scholarship would basically mean the cost of his education would be covered and he would come out of college free of debt. The question of course is what to do.

I realize this is a good problem to have, but a problem nonetheless. If anybody has faced, or is facing, a similar situation I would appreciate any input and advise.

By Katwkittens (Katwkittens) on Tuesday, April 01, 2003 - 11:35 am: Edit

I have five kiddos that are looking at college, one already in and four following quickly after her. She is in college already, Cal Poly San Luis Obsipo, and her sibs are a junior, soph, and a freshman and then the youngest of the group is in seventh grade. Soooo, we are looking at lots and lots of tution. She ended up at SLO for the same reason you have stated in your post. SLO offered tuition, room, board, books,supplies, transportation back and forth and personal expenses. She wanted to go to another more competitive school but did not offer as much. There was never a question of which to pick. Looking at loans and putting strain on the family expenses was not going to happen. The same is for all the kids, they don't have their heart set on any one school, heck as long as it fits with having their major they will go to the one that has us keeping more money at home with the family. Any of the extra money saved by us will go to graduate school if the money is not as forthcoming as undergrad. Knowing that she needs to keep up her grades to keep the money has made her accountable for her first entry into adulthood without any parentable supervision.

Her two brothers are both ranked first in their respective classes and her sis is a serious athlete ranked regional and hopefully nationally, so they know they need to do it better to be able to secure some sort of financial assistance for undergrad. Sure they would love to have the ability (money!) to be able to go to the school of their choice but that is not reality...not the real world. This big decision isn't so much of where they end up at school but what they had to do to get there and especially what they do while they are there. Its really about the kiddos and not so much the school.

So, to help to with your problem...where does your son want to go to school...not before the financial aid package but the reality that you have a full merit sitting in his hand? And where does he want to go if you weren't paying for the difference of the east coast school, would he be willing to make up the difference himself through employment and additional loans? I guess part of growing up would be the acknowledgement that the education is for him and he is an adult. Of course I want to do anything I can for my kiddos but along with that I want to teach them to do for themselves.

I asked the kids before they went off to school what they thought of your problem and they saw no problem. Their words "its a no-brainer Mom, DUH".
That was the boys response, DD said it is up to your son but he should at least pay for part of it....either through outside scholarships, employment or savings.
Of course, take this with a grain of salt, we don't have much as far as finances go, so they all knew long before high school they would need to substantially contribute to their own ungergrad and grad educations.

Good luck. And congrats on him getting into his respective college choices.

By Dadster (Dadster) on Tuesday, April 01, 2003 - 07:54 pm: Edit

This is indeed a dilemma, Artie1, and one faced by just about every student admitted to a very selective school. Any students with stats and resume that gain admittance to a top (but no merit aid) college would be able to attend some very good schools for close to nothing.

You are in the toughest part of the aid spectrum - making enough money to get no aid, but not enough that you can shrug off four expensive years. I like your approach of expecting some portion of the more expensive school to be covered by loans - that will insure your son is sharing the burden and won't make the choice lightly (one hopes).

Nevertheless, free tuition for four years is very hard to ignore, particularly if the schools are of similar quality (if not identical in other respects). Starting life after college loan-free and with Mom & Dad in better financial shape would be a major plus. Time for some serious discussions... good luck!

By Thedad (Thedad) on Tuesday, April 01, 2003 - 08:16 pm: Edit

I'm not looking forward to dealing with this. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not. We're in that same untenable "middle" ground.

By Artie1 (Artie1) on Wednesday, April 02, 2003 - 12:26 pm: Edit

First to Katwkittens,

Thanks for the quick and thorough response and also for the added element of feedback from your children; that counts a lot. The one point about getting our son involved in the decision in relation to his ability/desired to contribute financially is very relevant. I have already started the discussion with him on what would be his “threshold” for working while studying or assuming debt. Perhaps not surprisingly, that threshold does not appear to be too high ;-)

To Dadster... It is good to know that other people out there “feel our pain,” but the dilemma is of our own making. From very early own we always framed success in terms of being admitted to a top 10 school. I guess this falls under the category of beware of what you wish for.

I have to say that now that we have had an extra day to assimilate the news about the scholarship we realize we may be “drowning in a glass of water.” The way my wife and I have begun to approach this is by considering that acceptance to either one of the schools would have been in itself a coup. In fact, both schools were always a reach, and getting rejected from one - or both - was always a strong possibility. From that perspective, it may not be too difficult for us to convince him that we could have very well found ourselves sitting here with only the West Coast school acceptance at hand; and we would have felt very lucky. Being the tricky parents that we are, our plan is now to let him reach that conclusion by himself…

TheDad: This last chance to manipulate their life may be something to look forward too, if not navigating the financial aid maze.

By Asiandad1 (Asiandad1) on Wednesday, April 02, 2003 - 01:41 pm: Edit

Pardon my english as english is my second language. Artie1, let your kid make the decision about school, so he does feel that you made the decision for him. Tell him all the facts that how much debt he will be in if he goes the east coast school. Ask him, if he goes to west coast school, by saving money he can use it for enriching his life and get more money in grad school.

My kid applied to schools which are super selective. I told the kid that I will not be able to pay for it. My family is a middle class family. But I will tell you something that I came to know that can only happen in USA.

There are plenty of scholarships avialble based on merit (My kid could not qualify much on need basis). My prayers were answered when my kid got an endowment scholarships from multiple schools. Beilve me, in USA if you work hard, the doors are open from places which no one knows that money exists.

Please tell your kid to work hard, if they work hard they may get money in gardaute school. Encourage them and let them make decision. Be as supportive as possible and let them know that you can not help them financially, but will be always there for them.

Kid will make decision based on facts rather than emotion. It will make you proud, as they are learning how to be an adult. Pray to god and hope for the best.

By Artie1 (Artie1) on Wednesday, April 02, 2003 - 05:20 pm: Edit

Asiandad1,

This is a terrific message and your advice is very much appreciated. As a nationalized citizen I know your comments come from the heart and are absolutely true. My wife and I decided to stay in the US after graduate school because we know if we worked hard things would work out for us; they have. We now need to convey the same message to the kids, and for that I again agree with you; we have to pray and hope for the best!

By Theasrhs (Theasrhs) on Thursday, April 03, 2003 - 01:37 pm: Edit

I think my daughter may decide to take a year off to rethink her options, based on the low ball financial aid offer she got from her first choice. While she will visit and do overnights at the other schools to which she applied and was accepted (and which offered substantial financial aid packages), she seems to be feeling she needs some time to make any decisions.

The decision to take a year off would definitely be affected by finances.

By Emeraldkity4 (Emeraldkity4) on Thursday, April 03, 2003 - 01:52 pm: Edit

I would definitely make sure she has a strong plan on how she is spending her year off.
( I suggest Leapnow or other interim organizations for guidance)
My daughter took a year off, primarily because she didn't feel she was ready to jump into higher ed ( she did apply 3 instate colleges though and was accepted at all of them)
When she was ready, she applied to a few more schools including a highly rated private and was accepted at all.( it is need based but we only pay for room and board)
Since her scores and grades were not as high as the private I suspect her time off had a lot to do with making her a more desirable candidate
Since your daughter was admitted to her first choice, I am thinking you could use the offers from other schools ( as long as they are comparable) to show that there are more desirable packages out there.
However,if her first choice is need based aid only, it is likely that she will not receive more aid than indicated by your EFC. This will not change with a year off.

By Theasrhs (Theasrhs) on Thursday, April 03, 2003 - 02:35 pm: Edit

Yeah, the first choice is need based aid only, Emeraldkity4. A year off will definitely not change a thing -- and I'm not sure they would defer her either.

Thank you for the Leapnow suggestion! Unbelievably, when I immediately googled it, I discovered it is located in Sebastopol -- 12 miles from where we live.

I am very excited about this opportunity. I think it would give my daughter the time to understand what she wants to do without all the peer pressure and expectations that skew things so terribly.

Remind me: where did your child end up?

By Thedad (Thedad) on Thursday, April 03, 2003 - 03:03 pm: Edit

Sebastopol?!!!!

Is there still a Czech restaurant called Valdimir's in the area?

By Emeraldkity4 (Emeraldkity4) on Thursday, April 03, 2003 - 03:55 pm: Edit

My daughter did a year with CityYear ( Americorps) a program that Clinton started and Bush vowed to expand however he has cut its budget.
We have friends though who have also taken time off and arranged sabbatical type experiences through LEAPNOW like getting their EMT certification/mountain rescue, working on a sheep station in Australia and getting their divermasters certificate on the Great Barrier Reef.
Another has been working on Ulithi/Yap for the past three years, teaching high school among other things, he initially was only going to spend a short while there, and then go to U Chicago or St Johns, but he apparently has fallen in love with the people.
A year off can be great, it can be a lot of hard work, but with my daughter anyway, I think it helped to take time off from essays, homework and research.
Although she still kept to schools in the Northwest after her interim year, she did expand them to include Reed College where she is a sophomore.

By Theasrhs (Theasrhs) on Thursday, April 03, 2003 - 04:46 pm: Edit

You may have heard of Fort Ross, Thedad. It's up the coast from Sebastopol. The Russians actually *did* come there! We're in Northern California, just north of San Francisco.

Someone in another forum suggested CityYear. It looks as though applications for Americorps are due by April 30. Is it difficult to get into/find a place in?

What do you think of Lewis and Clark, Emeraldkity4?

By Aparent (Aparent) on Thursday, April 03, 2003 - 06:42 pm: Edit

To the OP, have you tried calling the East Coast school's finaid office and telling them that although you know they don't give merit aid this equally excellent school on the West Coast has offered all this money and is there any way they could up their package?

Also, don't forget the possibility of separaate merit scholarships, as Asiandad1 recommends. My son got about $8,000 in the first year by writing a lot of essays.

I guess my response to you would depend partly on what you have been telling your son all along. We have always told our kids that we would send them to the best college they got into. Since we also occupy the middle ground, we said we wouldn't be sending them to grad or professional school, because by then we'd have to be really focusing on our retirement. But...we have also told them, as Asianddad1 suggests, that they could use the money as they chose; if they wanted to get merit money somewhere and then go to grad or professional school with the money they didn't use from us, that would be ok.

I guess that for some families, there is no choice but to select based on financial aid. If that is not the case, geography would certainly be a factor in our family.

By Emeraldkity4 (Emeraldkity4) on Thursday, April 03, 2003 - 09:09 pm: Edit

SInce they have cut money way back for Americorps it is questionable whether they are even able to fund the volunteers they currently have in some locations.
It's worth a shot probably but I couldnt speak to how competitive itis now, with the high unemployment rate, and recent grads also using Americorps as a way to continue to defer their loans.

I am not familar with Lewis & Clark, other than it is across the river in Portland, that it has a well known international studies program and that a Presidential intern of some notority got her start there. I don't think it is academic as Reed, but I have heard good things.

BTW
you can call me Karin or Em instead of writing out that whole thing :-)

By Theasrhs (Theasrhs) on Friday, April 04, 2003 - 04:32 pm: Edit

Oh, gawd, I'd forgotten about Monica...

I think my daughter is going to choose between Lewis & Clark, Bennington College in Vermont - and maybe UCSC. I don't see how it's going to work for Sarah Lawrence. I really don't. I don't see her putting the kind of focused attention into getting a job that would actually defray the costs of going there, and that is a condition her dad and NCP has placed upon her in order to receive financial support from him. Not unreasonable, m'thinks.

She'll visit L & C and do an overnight. I'm in the process of arranging for her an overnight and informal visit at UCSC - but unless something really dynamic happens during that visit, she remains unimpressed and convinced that the UC's are miserable places to be for the first two years. She might visit Bennington once more if I can find a cheap ticket...

L & C, Bennington and UCSC are gonna be about the same cost when all is said and done: manageable and twice what SLC offered.

By Mike (Mike) on Friday, April 04, 2003 - 08:52 pm: Edit

My Dad told me they would provide $25000 per year at a private college(this is more then their family contribution needs to be) and I need to do the rest with grants, loans, work or Scholorships. Or they will pay my tuition, room/board, books and $2000 per year at a home state school.

I am glad I have a number to use when applying next year although I worry the offer is too high for them.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Friday, April 04, 2003 - 11:44 pm: Edit

Funny, we had a dinner table conversation with the three of us tonight: thedad, themom, thedaughter.
Talked about finances and various scenarios.
We live in a *very* high cost area and I think we're going to get royally screwed come EFC time, so I'm assuming zero needs-based even though we'll apply.

We gave thedaughter a number that's about half the total cost that we feel we can absolutely commit to. She's already plinked a couple of minor $1,000 state scholarships...we'll take 'em. She will make some money working and with any luck will be able to use some skills to make more than $5-8/hr. Still leaves quite a gap. We discussed loans in parents names...and how much we would expect her to eventually pay back.

The the only thing that makes it even this doable for us is that the $8,000/year we're currently spending for ballet-related stuff can go towards tuition instead.

By Artie1 (Artie1) on Saturday, April 05, 2003 - 10:07 am: Edit

Aparent,

The point that you make about what we told our son is at the crux of the situation. We did tell him to work hard and make it into the best possibile school. He has done that, and we are now prepared to hold our end of the bargain, but we want to make sure this is not an impulsive decision on his part.

He is srambling to apply to as many scholarships as possible but we got a late start. Even some of the most conventional sources, like National Merit Scholarships (my company sponsors several for the children of its employees) will not be available until next year since he applied as a HS junior. We believe he has a good chance to be nominated as a semifinalist but we will not know until December.

The East Coast school in question is MIT. We are going to attend the campus preview weekend with him and have arranged for a meeting in the financial office. We know they wil not match the scholarship offered by Caltech but we will ask for ideas on how to bridge the 25K a year gap.

If anybody has been in this situation please advise...

By Mike (Mike) on Saturday, April 05, 2003 - 10:22 am: Edit

I worry that Dad and Mom are giving up a lot with their offer and they earned it. I know that the state U is doable for them and will let them travel and do some stuff for themselves and I am not sure that private LACs no matter how nice they look and how high the graduation rate is are really worth that much more when it comes time to get a job. Seems like the job market, the career picked, and the effort I put in is far more important the the name on the paper they give me. After all there are a lot more people in this area who graduated from state U doing hiring then all of the Ivies combined.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Saturday, April 05, 2003 - 12:55 pm: Edit

Mike, there are two sides to this coin. As Hautbois notes (above), one can go to a state U and have a perfectly satisfying career, life, etc.

Otoh, I don't think you should be looking at explicit link of college-job-career...that way lies madness, imo. College isn't about some craftsman opening up your skull and pouring in the locally available grade of knowledge. For instance, you can go to any school and learn that, while influential, Hegel was nuts. (TheDad's editorial opinion.) What's going to be different is the experience, the stimulation in smaller classes with overall-sharper peers, etc. What's that worth? I don't know that you can put a Mastercard price on it but it's worth something, probably quite a bit.

I agree the post in the thread or two up from here where someone (Aparent? Wadad? Hautbois?) noted that fixating on one school or the Ivies or whatever is not very helpful...find the schools that are the *best* fit for *you*...and hope that one or two of them agree.

By Mike (Mike) on Monday, April 07, 2003 - 05:33 pm: Edit

Thedad: Thanks for your input. Outside of my parents I don't get much. I know you read my GC story and most kids in my shcool go to state schools or CCs. In the past 2 years less then 5% have left the state and this year one appled to an Ivy none last year. Only 33% of the school takes SATs in a state where the average is 54%. And in standard tests we rank 2n or 3rd in our county our of 12 public and 5 private schools.

My best friend had a 780 Math and 650 English SAT first time no study and is planning on CC for the first two years. Tells you I need all the advice I can get.

Thanks again.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Monday, April 07, 2003 - 09:08 pm: Edit

Mike, "ouch" about your best friend. If economics is a deciding factor, then that explains it. If economics aren't a factor, then...ouch.

Fwiw, I had to put myself through school 100 percent. I did a 3-2 Engineering program where the first three years were at CC doing the undergrad in the morning while working at a Navy base in the afternoon as an engineering aide & computer programmer.

I'm very proud that I did it on my own but if I could wave a wand no one else would have to do it that way...let 'em get their pride elsewhere.

By Mike (Mike) on Monday, April 07, 2003 - 10:36 pm: Edit

My friend wants to be an engineer. Between his Soccor varsity as a Jr. and his 4.00 and his 1430 SAT first time I suspect he could get a scholorship for at least part at a lot of schools. I don't think his parents have clue about what is out there.

My dad did the work thing too but thinks it is nearly imposible now with school cost going up a lopt faster then jobs for kids. Pointed out that when he finished state college his last years tuition was $450 and it will be 4875 next year. Minimum wage was 1.25 then and now it is 6.50. I am ready to work and an willing to borrow but I don't want to bury myself. I guess I will know this time next year if it is state U or LAC

By Jenniferpa (Jenniferpa) on Monday, April 07, 2003 - 10:45 pm: Edit

My daughter is a Junior, and we're currently making a list of possibles. As her intended major is Music Technology, there aren't many choices, which is both good and bad. My question relates to safety schools, particularly those which might be more affordable than most of the schools on her list (which includes Sarah L, ouch). After all, not only should she be willing to attend, we have to make sure that in the event something financially disasterous happens, we could actually afford it. It seems to me that she's more likely to get aid from a school where she's more than well qualified, yet I'm concerned that if she applies to such a school that they will feel she's overqualified and assume that she'll get in elsewhere and they can reject her to improve their yield.

Academically, she may be a National Merit Semi-finalist (or maybe not, she's right on the edge), she's musically gifted (says the proud parent), but she is in no way overly focused on a specific college: her general attitude is that what they see is what they get, and if they don't think she'd be a good fit, then she probably wouldn't be happy there. In general terms I agree, although a LITTLE more drive wouldn't do any harm.

Any suggestions on to handle the well qualified/over qualified issue?

Jennifer

By Thedad (Thedad) on Tuesday, April 08, 2003 - 12:49 am: Edit

I'm sorry, Jennifer, maybe it's just that I've had a long and stressful day and am not reading correctly, but what is it exactly you're asking about well qualified/over qualified?

Yes, the less comptetitive the school, the more aid they will give a high-profile applicant. (Profile = grades, scores, EC's, intangibles) There is some anecdotal evidence about schools passing up "overqualified" kids to improve their yield but I don't much believe it...there's too much pressure to get as high a profile class as possible.

If you're asking something else...I'm sorry.

By Jenniferpa (Jenniferpa) on Tuesday, April 08, 2003 - 06:34 am: Edit

I was probably less than clear - I was half listening to the news when I was typing. You did, however, answer my question: do schools really reject well qualified/over qualified candidates to improve yield, and if they do how do you counter that?

Your answer makes sense. The pressure to get a high profile class almost certainly would override the yield issue.

By Autodidact (Autodidact) on Tuesday, April 08, 2003 - 10:10 am: Edit

I don't normally differ from thedad, but on this issue I do. I firmly believe my daughter suffered as a result of what many are calling "Tufts Syndrome," rejected by a couple of schools which feel there is little chance the student will attend if accepted due to higher ranking scores, and college choices. Some portion of her list of acceptable safeties included a consideration of whether they were need blind for acceptance. Unless they really mean to tell us as parents, that where major need exists they will be blind to qualifications--and that is exactly opposite of their stated position.

By Nymom (Nymom) on Tuesday, April 08, 2003 - 10:28 am: Edit

Jennifer: In response to your question about how to counter schools rejecting "overqualified" applicants: I think the only way to counter this is for the applicant to express a sincere interest in the school. For example, in my kids' school, the GC would probably put in a call to the admissions office. If your GCs are not as activist, then the student could drop a note to the regional admissions officer; in short, anything that sends the message that the student will attend if admitted.

By Jenniferpa (Jenniferpa) on Tuesday, April 08, 2003 - 11:16 am: Edit

Part of the problem, as I see it, is how upfront one can afford to be about this. She understands that she should only apply to those colleges that she will be more than happy to attend, yet she's probably going to be even more happy if they give her more money (well her parents will be). How does one put this over without seeming impossibly crass i.e. NOT say: the more money you offer, the more likely I am to attend. It will be down to her to put this idea over as I have no idea how effective her GC is, which says something, and in fact my daughter avoids her like the plague, which is unfortunate. I guess at the initial application stage ensuring the essay both accurately reflects her AND the specific school to which it will be sent is a priority, as well as campus visits and contacts.

On another note, NYMOM, I think your idea about sending a note to the regional admissions officer is a good one, but I have reservations about how effective that would be based on our experience of one college on my daughter's list, Oberlin. So far, she's met the regional admissions person twice, once at school, where she was one of 3 people to attend his talk, and once at a college fair. Now the fair was a zoo, so I'm discounting that, yet would you not think that at the school the admissions officer would have at least taken these kid's names to put them on the mailing list? I mean, I've seen elsewhere that to a certain extent colleges judge your interest by the number of contacts, yet as far as Oberlin knows she's had minimal contact with the school, although she is now on 3 apparently different mailing lists, despite specifying her ss# each time. Maybe she could get admitted 3 times! Perhaps this is one very inefficient individual, or perhaps this relects the reality that there are many more applicants than places. Either way I wouldn't trust this officer to put a word in the right place (or any word at all, for that matter). I may have managed to circumvent this problem by sending her to a class in the summer which is being run by the head of the department that she's interested in (that's not the reason she's doing it, it's just a possible added benefit). However, I'm hoping this is an isolated incident rather than the usual pattern.

By Nymom (Nymom) on Tuesday, April 08, 2003 - 11:29 am: Edit

Jennifer: What about the Dean of Admissions? The deans are very hands on at the smaller schools; my son received several handwritten notes from the Dean of Admissions at his college after he was accepted ED. As for bringing up money: I don't think there's anything wrong with being upfront: Eg, "I am very interested in your college because of XYZ. However, as I am sure you understand, finances are a consideration. Are there any merit scholarships for which I might qualify?" This not so subtle hint should get things moving in the right direction.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Tuesday, April 08, 2003 - 11:44 am: Edit

AutoD, if I recall correctly, the only school I thought your daughter was overqualifed for was Truman State. There rest were either good fits or reaches, reaches in the sense that the Ivies et alia are reaches for virtually everyone. I'm a bit bewilderd myself by the pattern of responses she got. There are things I don't yet understand about the interplay of geography, urban/small town/rural and quality of the school. As regards the latter, you've made it clear what the situation is but I would have thought the academy courses properly compensated but I simply Don't Know nor can I yet get my head inside an adcom on this point...insufficient data.

I do owe you some e-mail. I took note that there were nearly 6,000 messages in my in-box and have started deleting/filing and slowly catching up on outstanding correspondence. An electronic pack rat.

By Architecture (Architecture) on Tuesday, April 08, 2003 - 01:36 pm: Edit

Hello. All of this talk about private tuition versus state school tuition...what about an out-of-state student going to a state college (because of a specific program offered there) and enduring 26k +/- tuition/room & board PLUS other fees? Unfortunately, there is no merit aid from this college (as there had been for her from other private colleges).
Any suggestions on approaching them for $?
Thanks!

By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Tuesday, April 08, 2003 - 01:57 pm: Edit

Artie,
CalTech is a terrific school and if your son gets a chance to visit, he may quickly change his mind about MIT being the "first choice" I don't see much difference in academic quality between the two but CalTech's campus is very nice and the weather is wonderful. I can't recall where I read it but CalTech graduates actually have a slightly higher record of going on for phd's than MIT grads. And, let's face it --- if he's majoring in any science/tech field grad work is probably going to be a requirement. That said, I'd go for the free/lower cost ride and save my money for graduate school - he can always go to MIT for grad school.
Just my two cents.

Carolyn

By Thedad (Thedad) on Tuesday, April 08, 2003 - 01:59 pm: Edit

I can't address the specifics but--and it seems somewhat paradoxical at first glance--quite often the private schools will offer better financial aid than the public schools, which are much more by-the-computer-stats-book in their offers.

A friend of my daughter got an offer from Sarah Lawrence such that the net cost was lower than her net cost with aid from UC Santa Cruz (in-state).

By Dadster (Dadster) on Tuesday, April 08, 2003 - 07:25 pm: Edit

Architecture, your situation is difficult. Aid at most state schools is very formulaic - if grades/scores are at certain levels, the student qualifies automatically. If not, he/she is out of luck. Of course, residency is a key factor in many scholarships, but some state schools do offer merit aid to out-of-staters.

As Thedad notes, private schools can often be cheaper when compared to full out-of-state public tuition.

It can't hurt to contact the aid office at the college to see if they can help. They might be able to point you at private scholarships that apply at their college. Or, if you have grounds for appealing your EFC, they can tell you the procedure. Good luck!

By Sluggbugg (Sluggbugg) on Tuesday, April 08, 2003 - 10:19 pm: Edit

I just spent the last 3 days painting a bedroom, so if I'm a little spacey, that's why!

Here's how our college search turned out, financially speaking:

We started college accounts for our 2 kids several years ago, and our dd began her college search last Fall knowing that she had a set amount of $$ in the bank for college. Anything over that amount was a cost she would be responsible for earning.

She applied to the following colleges:

(In state)
UC Davis
UC Santa Cruz

(Private)
U of Puget Sound ($8,000/yr scholarship for 4 ys)
Reed College
U of Oregon (out-of-state)
Lewis & Clark College
Whitman College

MIT
Brown
Ursinus College ($13,000/yr scholarship for 4 ys)
Clark College ($8,000 Scholarship for 4 ys)

The scholarships brought Puget Sound, Ursinus, and Clark College into range, in terms of being able to cover almost all four years of her undergrad education. U of Oregon was also in range, and she knew that she would probably have to hold a part-time job if she attended any of these colleges.

The 2 UC's were covered for the full 4 years, plus 1-2 years of grad school.

MIT & Brown would have burned through more than half of her college fund in A YEAR.

As for the the other private colleges (Reed, L & C, and Whitman), she considered volleying off of the scholarships offered by Puget Sound, Ursinus, and Clark in an attempt to get matching scholarships.

Rejections took care of MIT, Brown, & Whitman, which left 2 options for her. Work p/t and attend any of the remaining schools, or go to UC, have the whole thing paid for, plus a year or two of grad school.

She's always planned for grad school, so her final decision came down to *dollars & sense* at Davis (pre-med) or Santa Cruz (marine biology). Santa Cruz has a solid marine biology program, as well as a new course of study specifically for pre-med majors.

The individualized colleges at UCSC and its location overlooking Monterey Bay also really appealed to her, and that's where finally she decided to go.

What would have happened if she'd been accepted to MIT or Brown? Looking back at how much thought she put into finances and the possibility of not getting through in 4 years, I think she probably would have made the same decision.

I'm just glad it's over!

By Autodidact (Autodidact) on Tuesday, April 08, 2003 - 11:30 pm: Edit

Congratulations SluggBugg, you're a survivor with a daughter who has exhibited and exercised fiscal responsibility. Hurray! I'm proud of all of you.

By Sluggbugg (Sluggbugg) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 02:53 pm: Edit

LOL, Auto! Yes, she was being fiscally responsible, but don't forget our dd's prime directive...not to "seek out where no man has gone before," but to go where the boyfriend goes.

Aaaargh!

By Autodidact (Autodidact) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 07:32 pm: Edit

Sluggbugg,
Once she gets to college, she'll meets LOTS of new, interesting people--perhaps one of them will be your son-in-law someday--or at least a pleasant distraction from the current bf, if that's desirable. My only direction to my daughters in regards past, present, or future boyfriends is: Don't go fishing in the shallow end of the gene pool! Good luck!

By Thedad (Thedad) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 08:26 pm: Edit

LOL, AutoD. "Don't go fising in the shallow end of the gene pool." Heh. My daughter's hearing that one over dinner tonight.

By Mike (Mike) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 11:44 pm: Edit

Be careful parents. Telling your kid were not to fish may create interest in the shallow end. To forbid makes things VERY interesting to us teenagers.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 01:42 am: Edit

Mike, funny you should say that, but I take care about what I forbid for exactly that reason. I've also done things like expose my daughter to good wine over the dinner table for years...one waiter just about lost it when she took a sip of my chardonnay and said, "Fairly dry...but a little oakey." The first frat boy that tries plying her with jug wine is going to be mortified...which is fine.

By Emeraldkity4 (Emeraldkity4) on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 02:14 am: Edit

See I never could do that. My daughter told me that the kids she knows whose parents have this enlightened attitude do much better with substances, but it never even crossed my mind.
My parents only drank on special occasions like whiskey in the christmas eggnog, and I hardly ever drink, ( plus her dad is in recovery almost 8 years now)
I do like a little Dalwhinnie ever once in a while, but having wine with my daughter would feel as foriegn to me as, introducing my in laws to the contents of our bedside drawer.

We never did have to "forbid" her anything. Even when she was little, if I said, "don't do that, it's dangerous" she would stop. Her sister on the other hand would make sure she did it twice at least, bigger than the last time.
She is only 12 now, so I think I have a bumpy road ahead with this one.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 09:47 am: Edit

Well, fwiw, my stepfather was an alcoholic and I understand wariness on the subject completely. I ordinarily roll my eyes at self-help books but reading "Adult Children of Alcoholics" knocked me on my butt.

But my wife and I do enjoy wine with dinner, particularly if dining out or with company at home, and dealing with exposure to alcohol when away from home is one of the two 800-pound canaries that parents don't like to think about...as is sex.

Daughter finds people who are drunk to be disgusting and, thank goodness, she loathes beer, the primary college beverage of choice. At some point, you cross your fingers and send them out into the world and hope their inevitable mistakes won't hurt them too badly; my own take is I want to give them the best prepping I can.

By Autodidact (Autodidact) on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 10:29 am: Edit

Hearing a reverberating echo. My upbringing is showing, and I grew up on a farm. Other homilies are "Why buy the cow, if you can get the milk for free?" (I have four brothers.)
Mike: I fully understand the "forbidden fruit" theory, and I credit my daughters with sufficient common sense to realize that "big fish" are rarely caught in "shallow water"--and when they are, it generally is because they are old, sick, or stupid. I am thinking in terms of my potential grandchildren, all of whom will be loved within our family circle, but which the outside world will favor if they possess at least average intelligence, personal appearance, and a winning personality. From my maternal grandmother"Beauty is only skin deep, but ugly goes all the way to the bone." Personally, I am not an avaricious person, but my uncle's advice to his daughters was that it takes no more effort to fall in love with a rich man than a poor one, but saves a great deal of struggle from that point on. I find,in reflection, that he is quite right on this point.
Thedad: Europeans in general, and my girls' dad in particular, share your practice, and their rates of alcoholism are lower than ours. The rub in America is that it is counter to every school policy, and most state laws, and I don't want to encourage my children to believe that our laws are to be selectively applied. They may feel free to actively lobby to change any law which they feel is ludicrous, injurious, or patently unfair. As the sister of four men who have had problems with alcohol, violence, finances ( the chicken or the egg?), and the Dept. of Motor vehicles, I am a proponent for any policy which teaches personal responsibility and limits. My brothers have routinely lost their licenses--no one can remember the time when they all had one at the same time in the last forty years--and they all drank with my father. Needless to say, I believe there is a genetic disposition towards alcoholism--although none of them would admit to being one. After dad fell and broke five ribs, three front and back, he pretty much gave up the habit. Watching them self-destruct, and the grief that it has caused our mother and their families, has been sufficient to keep me a tea drinker.
Emeraldkitty: I can sympathize with you on this one. DD1 is serious, safety conscious, and self-confident enough to be self-governing. DD2 is devil-may-care (or he may be hosting the party), socially aware but possessed of the belief that you only go around once, life is a smorgasbord, and it all should be sampled. Too attractive for her own good, and not as well grounded with a propensity to seek out other "live wires." I pray she will rapidly develop more self-control for I fear she will become, in a word, "incorrigible" otherwise--as she has a definite aversion to, and an uncanny knack for circumventing, external controls.

By Autodidact (Autodidact) on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 11:11 am: Edit

Thedad: Sorry, I somehow missed the post on 4-8 initially. Actually, I believe you told my daughter you thought Mount Holyoke and Dickinson either shouldn't be on her list or should be considered safeties--she was rejected both places. She at least got waitlisted at Middlebury and Smith--not that she's in, but both have higher mid-range SAT's etc. Information we got was that her extremely small class size worked against her, and I think teacher rec's could have been better-at least grammatically correct with verb tense agreement, no misspellings,etc.--but we only saw one, which was unfortunately, after the fact, and we hope to God what he gave my daughter was a rough draft, not the finished product. It didn't reflect well on either the teacher or the student, as it was pretty much a regurgitation of her resume. Personally, I thought her essays
could have been better, too. Well written, but not enough neon power. Students need to make those things irradiate amongst the stack of 12,000-16,000 applicants.

Artie1: To get back to your initial question, we are faced with a similar decision. Daughter has free ride+ offers and doesn't want to attend these large, predominantly midwestern or southwestern universities. Florida Gainesville is in the mix, too, and her dad works half a year in Florida. Our problem $67,000 is a massive amount to turn down out of hand, particularly in our circumstances, but the daughter has allergies and asthma which the heat and humidity would aggravate. Specifically, she has an aversion to going to school anywhere not on the East Coast, as she wants to begin networking, intern, and desires to end up in Boston after law school. My family and her father, say unequivocably, take one of the free rides... but they didn't work their butt off the last five years and make massive sacrifices to be in a position to have a choice. My position, the choice is hers, but so will be a major portion of any resulting debt. She has appealed to Truman State--likes their study abroad programs-- for additional funds, based on her National Merit Finalist designation and FAFSA--which for some reason they hadn't yet downloaded. She has made it clear that finances will drive her decision. She is leaning towards a gap year and reapplication at her top colleges unless it, too, is a full ride. She has sufficient credit to do so without it affecting her graduation date, so I have no problem with the plan. It even has an upside as it would allow her sister to apply as "first in the family to attend college, too." This seems like a small thing, but it could make a difference in her choices. If they'll both be in college at the same time it's beneficial in the financial aid formula, and we need all the help we can get. For the record, I started college funds when my girls were infants, but it was necessary to use them to keep body and soul together in the last several years.