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it seems like a fair question in these times were everybody is so stressed. is it really worth it? what do you parents think about this? do you acknowledge that there is life out of college, is not the only way. I am just curious if you have anything good, an experience or comments thank you

By Dadster (Dadster) on Sunday, March 30, 2003 - 02:35 pm: Edit

Certainly, college CAN be a waste of money if the student fails to take advantage of what is available. In particular, a costly private education may be a waste for the unmotivated student who is merely seeking a degree. And it IS possible to achieve things in life without attending college.

However, I highly recommend college whenever possible - it can be a great step in a young person's intellectual development, socialization, maturation, etc., and can provide a foundation for later career growth and new learning.

By Kojikabuto (Kojikabuto) on Sunday, March 30, 2003 - 03:24 pm: Edit

you are right. college is not for everyone, is just one of the many paths you can take, but now it almost seems as if it is an institution a must!! whoever does not go to college is a loser, and that is not true, everybody can be well educated. hey we got public libraries! we sometimes learn more from life from a first hand experience rather than sitting in a boring class thinking how there is life outside that room and you are missing the opportunity to live it.

By Rosarosaef (Rosarosaef) on Sunday, March 30, 2003 - 04:15 pm: Edit

at a minimum, you will spend four years taking classes, completing assignments, learning material, solving problems. you will do this with a better crop of students than that of high school. you will become a much more learned person than you are now.
if you don't believe this, think back on all the crap you learned in high school (music please). you might, as paul simon did, question its validity. however, assuming you're a high school senior, think back to your educational level four years ago: 8th grade. were you to spend a day taking 8th grade classes now, or were you to dig out your 8th grade work from some closet backshelf, you'd likely find out that in four years you've made some valid progress, that not only have you learned a thing or two, but also you have become a better student and a better person. four more years of this process will likely have a similar effect.
of course there are other "lifes" (somehow "lives" doesn't cut it) outside college. travel. a job. the military. just dickin' around the house. these are all learning experiences as well. through them, you might find an area of interest to further direct your formal education. i can't tell you whether college or any other option is worth it. i can speculate that by bringing up the question, you have no special reason to go to college other than "if i don't my parents will kill me". the possibility of filicide is something to consider. (you may find a reason by the time you need to choose a major... a reprieve is worth something.) as a person concerned about options, you ought to keep in mind that a broad education affords one broad options. liberal arts colleges see their role as a preparation for life, not as a preparation for a job. in the absence of any stated interest, you might investigate them. to be honest, a bachelor's is a stepping-stone degree, not worth much in and of itself, but without which you often cannot proceed. someday, you may want to proceed.

By Kojikabuto (Kojikabuto) on Sunday, March 30, 2003 - 04:23 pm: Edit

you are right in many arguments. havent you think of the possibility that college can impoverish us, kep us apart from very special relationships ( like girlfriends) without college you can move and try special interests without the worry about an F or A in calculus or composition 2 class.

what do you meam when you say move on? what if i can adjust to a budget and handle my expenses i dont need that college degree. i can be a well round person by reading books in the public library. good education will always be free. some very highly capable people sepend their life without even going to college. what is success? everybody has a different perspective of that. i will consider successful in life when i marry my girlfriend or have kids of my own. everyone creates own concept of education too. right now we can be learning new ideas in this forum without even going to class, hmm interesting!

By Sluggbugg (Sluggbugg) on Saturday, April 05, 2003 - 04:56 pm: Edit

K, you seem to have your mind already made up about this issue. Were you looking for an argument in favor of college that you haven't already heard (perhaps from your parents)?

I'm not here to convince you one way or the other. You can marry your girlfriend and have kids and be happy without a college education.

If you choose to follow that route, I guarantee, however, that you will be faced with this question all over again with your own children. At that point, you will understand the selfless mission that all good parents have for their children, which is to provide for them, to love and protect them, and to educate them for a complex and demanding world.

What I got out of college was the ability to think beyond a high school level, to reason past emotion, and to analyze problems in logical sequence toward elegant and creative solutions. The kernals of that ability were planted in high school, but it was in college that this ability blossomed into something truly enriching.

Babe, if what you want for yourself is a body of life experience that does not include a college experience, more power to you! But, if your thinking around this issue is limited to an "either/or" scenario (either marry your g/f or go to college), consider the possibility that college may empower you with the ability to come up with a plan that includes both.

By Marylandmom (Marylandmom) on Saturday, April 05, 2003 - 06:56 pm: Edit

We're licking our wounds here in MD, though daughter is leaning strongly towards a state school with an excellent newspaper where she can perfect her already fine writing skills. They are enticing her with scholarships, contacts, quick advancement, and hope of a clear job direction after college.

If she went to Reed or, better still, had been admitted to Swarthmore, (Swarthmore was her fondest hope these last few months), I know that we could easily see college as a place for her to continue to grow, with other fine young people with fine minds, and I know that I could whole-heartedly agree with the previous poster who commented that a liberal arts education is a preparation for life, not for a job.

But let me tell you the story of our older son (my stepson) who taught himself to read before his second birthday, became obsessed as a child with comic books (whether you know it or not, many smart kids do), expanded his literary interests, enjoyed writing and drama in high school, and insisted as a h.s. senior that college was a waste of time for someone interested in liberal arts.

He was always VERY careful to point out that he was in no way saying that liberal arts are a waste, just that paying a college to force you to read great literature is a waste of time when you can do it by yourself. And he was honest enough to admit that he might NOT do so on his own, but could.

He gave in to parental pressure and attended Emory University, graduating with a degree in English Lit. and a 3.0 average-- which reflected sporadic effort, although he found several of his classes to be a pleasure (while most were not).

At age 31 he has worked in a video store, as a proof-reader, has delivered flowers, and currently works in a Barnes and Noble book store--all at pay rates that he could have earned with a high school education.

To be fair, he is not an ambitious person, delights in the irony he sees in a flawed and materialistic society, and is not in the least concerned, as far as I can tell, about his own lack of material success. He continues to read enthusiastically, works 40 hours a week at under $10 an hour, and is slowly and painfully paying back his college loan. I know that he resents being pushed to go to college and hates the debt that he is under.

As I have said, if my daughter had been accepted at Swarthmore, I would love for her to spend the next four years growing and learning. Her intended fields of study were English and philosophy. I would be glad for her to do that at Reed if she decides that is what she wants.

Impacting her decision, she does have teachers (speech and debate, journalism, English) telling her to think very carefully before tossing away the opportunities she has been handed for a key place on an outstanding college publication.

Knowing what her brother experienced and having been turned down by the school that, for her, held dreams of four years of personal and intellectual excitement before setting out into the world, I can clearly see why she is being pulled toward something practical that at least holds out hope of a job and a direction after college.

Both of my husband's parents went to college, as did both of us and most of our siblings (eleven between us). The ONLY ones who are in a career in any way related to their majors in college are those who became teachers.

Yes, college is certainly worth it, but when you have been found lacking (or at least have not been chosen) by the school that seemed to offer that delightful interlude before adulthood where thinking and writing and debating are to be your work and goal and passion, I can understand why daughter is looking at another choice.

Gee, if you have read this far, can you tell that my wound-licking continues and that I am still far from finding peace with all of this?

By Rosarosaef (Rosarosaef) on Saturday, April 05, 2003 - 11:21 pm: Edit

preparation for life and job need not be mutually exclusive. if you'll concede that men of letters represent archetypes of personal growth, i offer you mark twain, john steinbeck, and ernest hemingway, journalists all who didn't let the job stop them from bigger and better things. no one champions studying english or philosophy at swarthmore more than myself, but that is no more a guarantee of personal growth or happiness than the journalistic route at MD. and, my god, if you're going to do the latter, what better journalistic tradition has america than h.l. mencken and maryland, whose legacy probably lies at the basis of your daughter's scholarship money?

i may have this wrong... and certainly oversimplified; but i think you're saying that your children come from a family whose members best express themselves in impractical ways, for which they sometimes pay a price (the world being a practical place), and you don't want to deprive your daughter of her opportunity to best express herself by taking a practical option. if that's anywhere near right, then your family practices a level of idealism that is downright luxurious. and as you know from experience, the price of luxury can be pretty steep. does your daughter need to pay that price? i mean, you'll pay the reed tuition, but she might end up with an impractical, if refined education.

and while you sit at the monitor worrying about all this, daughter is out with the boyfriend. hardly seems fair. where does the boyfriend want her to go? [i'm not being nasty. your daughter has changed her college priorities twice before. and kojikabuto is ready to re-arrange his life for his girlfriend. upon such considerations, MANY a college plan has been changed... and will change yet again.] it gets back to peace of mind. and all i'm really suggesting is that given your daughter's options (all enviable, all great), she should be able to find peace. and more to the point, so should you.

p.s. i've been following your posts all week. how about giving me a little peace of mind? let me and everyone else know the eventual decision.

By Marcie (Marcie) on Sunday, April 06, 2003 - 01:43 am: Edit

Maryland Mom, I too will be interested to read which school your daughter chooses. My sister's family lives a block or two away from Reed, so I am familiar with their campus and some students there. (The weather in Portland isn't that bad, by the way. Better than Seattle.)

I have been an editor and writer for over 20 years, and I would recommend the state school with the college newspaper position. Getting your foot in the door while still in college is a valuable boost to a career. I worked in my field while still in graduate school and it was quite helpful. Also the less expensive college leaves more potential (financially) for graduate study.

I think your daughter will choose for herself, but this is just some input from someone in a closely related field.

By Marylandmom (Marylandmom) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 09:42 am: Edit

Thanks Rosaro and Marcie-- your comments were helpful and thought provoking. Our daughter has made her decision for the journalism scholarship at the U. of Md.

I will probably post a little more about this on another parent board thread since the topic more appropriately belongs there.

By Wanderingwonder (Wanderingwonder) on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 11:33 am: Edit

I wanted to add to this discussion. I will be graduating in May '04 with dual degrees in accounting and management. I am in 5 different honors organizations, 3 of which are business related.

College has done nothing for me because I have been rejected for almost all the jobs I have applied for. I am currently working part-time for a janitorial company to help pay my bills while in school. I owe a combined $25K between credit cards and student loans. My life truly sucks now, as I have no hope for employment prospects after college - or so it seems... all the applications I have put in have been rejected. What have I done wrong in school? I have tried to become involved with things that will better myself. I have a high GPA 3.8 and should it continue I will graduate with honors.

Did i just waste 5 years of my life and several thousands of dollars to work at Wal-Mart as a cashier or something of that nature????

Despite my parent's urging, I feel I should have done what I felt in my heart was right at the time. I should have joined the service, put in my 4 years, and after that have become a truck-driver. Although I may possibly be dead after the stint in the service, at least I wouldn't be hopelessly in debt with no way to pay it back.

By Lamom (Lamom) on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 12:30 pm: Edit

Dear Wanderingwonder,

Sorry. I'm curious did you pick your major or did your parents do it for you? Didn't you get enjoyment from just being at college? Is there no help from the career center? What about joining the service now as an officer? At the very least you will be a college graduate. You won't be someone in their 40's wishing they had gone to college. You are bright, I hope things work out.

A mom

By Universal (Universal) on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 12:11 am: Edit

I was convinced by my teachers since 7th grade that college was the point of my career as a student. As a top performing high school student I took community college and AP courses before applying to university leading to a full tuition scholarship.

Now I am only happy that at least I only had to pay for room and board for what I consider a complete waste of my time. There is an overwhelming delusion spread about majoring in what you enjoy as a subject instead of preparing for a career.

All of my friends that succeeded in college had a career focus from the start which came across in entering internships as sophmores. All continued them and some even left their programs to persue that real education, only to later finish their university degrees as a formality.

Other unsuccessful college students such as myself double majored in absract topics. Most of us ended up substitute teaching or going to graduate school to continue being professional students.

My recommendation is to consider what career you want to pursue and then use the necessary coursework a college provides to end up in that career. Even then community college is the way to go until a professional program at a university is required.

There are advantages to going to college such as the parties and abstract explorative programs. You can take advantage of this at a community college, many have for example study abroad programs, and you can still party without paying a hefty tuition. In the end I wish I had been less academic and entered a Fraternity and networked to get a career instead of learning useless information.