Private College vs State U - Part 2





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Discus: Parents Forum: 2004 Archive - Part 2: Private College vs State U - Part 2
By Sheeprun (Sheeprun) on Saturday, July 31, 2004 - 05:05 pm: Edit

Continuation of Part one.

By Barrons (Barrons) on Saturday, July 31, 2004 - 07:09 pm: Edit

New data on CEO's

Wisconsin ties Harvard

On, Wisconsin ... into the CEO's office
Liz Willen, Bloomberg News
July 31, 2004 COLLEGECEO0731
The University of Wisconsin, the nation's eighth-largest public university has a number of claims to fame.

James Thomson, a Wisconsin professor, pioneered embryonic stem cell research there in 1998.

Wisconsin's football team holds three Rose Bowl titles.

Wisconsin's Madison campus is ranked the No. 2 party school by Princeton Review, behind the University of Colorado at Boulder.

Visitors can watch cows being milked at the school's working dairy farm every afternoon.

Wisconsin is a top breeding ground for U.S. corporate leaders.

That's right, Wisconsin, with 29,000 undergraduates, tied with Harvard College for first place in educating the most chief executive officers of companies included in the Standard & Poor's 500 Index, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Each has 15 CEOs.

Wisconsin's CEO honor roll includes Carol Bartz, 55, CEO of Autodesk Inc., which makes software for architects and engineers; Thomas Falk, 46, who runs Kimberly-Clark Corp., the largest U.S. maker of disposable diapers, and Lee Raymond, 65, head of Exxon Mobil Corp., the world's largest publicly traded oil company.

Harvard, with 6,650 undergraduates, includes among its alumni Steve Ballmer, 48, CEO of Microsoft Corp., the world's largest software maker; Franklin Raines, 55, who heads Fannie Mae, the largest source of U.S. mortgage money, and Sumner Redstone, 81, CEO of Viacom Inc., the third-largest U.S. media company.

Harvard and Wisconsin outrank Princeton University and Stanford University, two private institutions that tied for third place in educating the most CEOs.

"There should be more respect for the kind of education you can get from a large public institution," said Sim Sitkin, founding director of the Center of Leadership and Ethics at the Fuqua School of Business, at Duke University in Durham, N.C. "Senior executives in large companies need not only come from an isolated elite but need to be able to relate to a wide spectrum of people."

A year at Harvard, including room and board, costs $39,880; at Wisconsin, state residents pay $14,350, while out-of-state students pay $28,360.

The preponderance of CEOs educated at public universities might result from the schools' numerical advantage: Only 0.8 percent of the nation's estimated 7.5 million four-year college students attended the nation's eight Ivy League schools in 2001.

By Marite (Marite) on Saturday, July 31, 2004 - 08:10 pm: Edit

>>The preponderance of CEOs educated at public universities might result from the schools' numerical advantage: Only 0.8 percent of the nation's estimated 7.5 million four-year college students attended the nation's eight Ivy League schools in 2001. >>

That's why comparisons can be so meaningless. Producing more CEOs may benefit Wisconsin because of the possibility of getting donations from grateful alums, but a Harvard student stands a greater chance of rubbing shoulders with a future CEO because s/he will be in a far smaller crowd of students.

By Barrons (Barrons) on Saturday, July 31, 2004 - 08:14 pm: Edit

Wisconsin kids are MUCH more friendly so I think that evens out the chances.

By Marite (Marite) on Saturday, July 31, 2004 - 08:20 pm: Edit

Ah. Among Wisconsin's 29,000+ undergraduates, there must be a possibility of finding 6,500 who are not friendly, just as among the 6,500 Harvard undergraduates, there must be some who are friendly. How else could the old boy network function?

By Taxguy (Taxguy) on Saturday, July 31, 2004 - 08:22 pm: Edit

Barrons notes,"Wisconsin kids are MUCH more friendly so I think that evens out the chances"

Response:LOL, I knew that I liked you Barrons. OK, is there a measure or standard test of friendliness?

By Barrons (Barrons) on Saturday, July 31, 2004 - 08:39 pm: Edit

See stat #2 party school in US. Can't have a good party without friends. We used to say--if you can't get ------ in Madison, you can't get --------.

By Marite (Marite) on Saturday, July 31, 2004 - 08:45 pm: Edit

On CC, "party school" seems often to be indistinguishable from "freely flowing alcohol." Is that the standard test of friendliness?

I like Madison. The students I met there, all 30 of them, were very nice. But I cannot say that they were representative of all 29,000 UW students. It's just that this comparison strikes me as preposterous. And the author of the article, at the end, recognizes this.

By Mom101 (Mom101) on Saturday, July 31, 2004 - 08:48 pm: Edit

Garland, I only question whether teaching kids that living with the bare minimum is virtuous makes any sense. This seems to be what some are saying. Are you making a greater coontribution by serving the public or by making a fortune and supporting many public causes? This has been debated on several threads. I've watched my children ponder what they want to be and the financial implications. They have mostly lived among high earners, people who have created foundations, served as trustees of schools and contributed significantly in many ways and those who live large and mostly for themselves. They have been very able to recognize the difference. Isn't the point that teaching children the value of giving to society is important? Should they feel guilty to enjoy financial success and all the things it will bring to them and others?

By Garland (Garland) on Saturday, July 31, 2004 - 08:56 pm: Edit

I think you're misunderstanding what I said. I didn't say they should shun financial success; I said they should strive not to need it: it leaves more options open. Plenty of people with less stuff give to society.

By Mom101 (Mom101) on Saturday, July 31, 2004 - 09:03 pm: Edit

"Strive not to need it?" Learn not to need it I can agree with, but they can strive to make money without guilt if they want, too, in my opinion.

By Garland (Garland) on Saturday, July 31, 2004 - 09:39 pm: Edit

Not "strive not to get it", "strive not to need it" . In other words, take wealth beyond basic necessity out of the decision-making equation. If they end up getting it, fine; I just mean I don't want it to be their primary goal.

By Patient (Patient) on Saturday, July 31, 2004 - 11:30 pm: Edit

I think that we often make the assumption that people with great wealth do not share it with those less fortunate who are unable to live a decent life--the elderly, the disabled, poor children, etc. I also believe that much of the great wealth that has been accumulated in this country by a small group of people has been on the backs of those same powerless people--Enron comes to mind.

In my practice, I have read the tax returns of many multi-millionaires, and I can tell you that it is stunning to see the annual amount of their charitable contributions--try $1,000 maximum, and that is Goodwill donations of used stuff! On the other hand, I admire wealthy families like the Hewletts and the Packards and yes, Bill Gates too, because their wealth has been given generously to wonderful causes. (Interestingly, some of those people live extraordinarily quiet and modest lives and shun the trappings of wealth, choosing instead to devote themselves to such things as film, music, etc.--refreshingly living Garland's philosophy). The ability of such people to better the lives of those less fortunate I think IS something that we want to foster.

Still, I think that American is a decadently materialistic society, and I think that it accounts for some of the hostility we encounter, not just in our own backyards (the fancy sports car, e.g.), but in the world at large.

By Barrons (Barrons) on Sunday, August 01, 2004 - 09:54 pm: Edit

Wisconsin is also usually #1 in Peace Corps volunteers too.
Marite--lighten up. We also beat every other school of similar size and scope. Harvard gets first pick of the top 4000 students or so every year. They should do a lot better than a little old state school in a poor state.

By Marite (Marite) on Sunday, August 01, 2004 - 10:05 pm: Edit

Barrons:
I am merely pointing out my reservations about this kind of statistical comparisons. Nothing you have said, including this latest datum about Peace Corps volunteers, has overcome these reservations. My issue is precisely that UW-Madison can hardly be called a "little ol' state school" when in fact it is a very large state school. 29K undergraduates is nearly 5 times more than Harvard. So how do we interpret the fact that it ties Harvard for CEOs?

By Mini (Mini) on Sunday, August 01, 2004 - 11:19 pm: Edit

I advocate learning how to live poor for one reason and one reason only -- and a very selfish one: for the person who knows how to do it, it expands the range of possibilities (actually quite widely.) Doesn't mean s/he should try to be poor (or rich). Doesn't mean that s/he will do better things for the world. Doesn't mean s/he'll be happier or unhappier..

But it does radically expand the world of possibilities.

(As Patient justly points out, in this country -- and elsewhere -- people need training in learning how to be rich as well, and it unequivocably clear that most haven't received it.)

By Patient (Patient) on Sunday, August 01, 2004 - 11:49 pm: Edit

I'm not sure I'm following the Wisconsin/Harvard debate, but is it an example of the "college tribes" concept discussed in today's New York Times' Education Life section?

By Mom101 (Mom101) on Sunday, August 01, 2004 - 11:52 pm: Edit

Mini, that reminds me, I really did want to ask how you traveled around the world three times with no money. That is a skill I'd like my kids to know!

By Marite (Marite) on Sunday, August 01, 2004 - 11:59 pm: Edit

Patient:

I'm not knocking Wisconsin! There is a good chance my S will end up there, as it has one of the best math departments in the country! I also like Madison a lot, though I am not sure if I'd like the cold.

Somebody who taught at a couple of state Us and then at an Ivy summed up her students like this: The best students at the state Us were the equivalent of the best students at the Ivy. But below that top level, the quality of students dropped far more rapidly at the state U than at the Ivy. This is why I am absolutely not surprised that Wisconsin has produced many CEOs, enough to tie Harvard.

By Patient (Patient) on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 12:06 am: Edit

I'm just kidding around, putting off my nighttime reading. (Well, I did read the NY Times, obviously, and just about to start Eats Shoots and Leaves!)And, just to join the fray with nothing significant at all to say, I have truly liked every single person I have ever met from Wisconsin. Very warm people, perhaps to compensate for the climate.

By Mini (Mini) on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 12:15 am: Edit

"Mini, that reminds me, I really did want to ask how you traveled around the world three times with no money. That is a skill I'd like my kids to know!"

--

It wasn't "no" money, but very little. I was about to run out of money when I was living in England, and hadn't gotten to see much of the continent yet. (Wow -- this could be a long story, but I'll give highlights.) I basically took out a map of the world, figured how far I could likely hitchkike in 10 days, and worked to get myself a job teaching in Iran - and specifically Isfahan, 'cause I heard it was beautiful. So managed to see all the countries in-between, and made friends with lots of international students that grew over the years. And I became a book publisher -- a poor one to be sure -- but when we to things like the Frankfort Book Fair, we'd make arrangements in advance to stay with publishing friends, and I recruited authors, and one thing led to another.... And then at one point I was part of a U.N. training seminar in India, and had three weeks at the end to go anywhere I wanted, but instead of going sightseeing, I ended up following this elderly woman, a land reform activist, (this was 27 years ago), and we kind of adopted each other, and essentially they became part of my extended family.

There's lots, lots more -- but I guess the main message is that it was (and is) always - first and last - about relationships. We don't travel -- we have friends and "family" everywhere. (Just recently, I've struck up a relationship with this amazing fellah in Rwanda-Burundi who is doing trauma healing work -- I'm busy raising money for a little economic development fund, but who knows where it might lead? -- I've never been there, and.....)

By Patient (Patient) on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 12:24 am: Edit

Mini, out of curiosity, how recently did you do this? I know that in the 70s we all traveled with next to nothing--hitchhiking, sleeping in train stations (in Venice, no less!), staying in people's spare rooms on Mykonos, etc. I guess I assume that the world has changed enough that such a footloose and fancy-free existence is no longer possible. If your travels were recent, I'm delighted!

Although come to think of it...Last year I went to visit one of my best friends, who lives in the south of France. She said that we had to go visit Carcassonne, which is indeed magnificent, and we stayed in the truly luxurious hotel there within the walled city. But on our walks around, we met a lovely Swedish man who I believe was in his late 50s or early 60s, who was bicycling across southern France and Spain and staying at youth hostels for about $5.00 a night. I still wish I could have gone with him (for adventure, not for romance )

By Mini (Mini) on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 12:55 am: Edit

Well, this January (2005), my d. and I are going to South India for 19 days. The total cost once there will be less than $300, and only that high because she will be doing an internship with a practitioner of traditional medicine. (We (We might splurge on gifts.) Plane tickets cost $2400 for the two of us. I was also invited to Cambodia and Malaysia on this trip, but no time. Sigh!

Two years ago, my d. and I went to England, where we both sang at the Royal College of Music. Stayed with friends everywhere, and costs were very, very minimal.

In 1998, my wife and two d.s spent 6 weeks in India - travelled the length and breadth. Mostly stayed with friends. The total cost for the 4 of us, including plane fares, was under $6k. But that's not the point. Relationships ARE the point. Now it is possible that I could have developed such relationships if I had more money, but it is much less likely.

(Oh, I have an Italy story too - Florence - no money again. But there was pension run by nuns that cost 75 cents a night, and then there was "restaurant" where you could eat all the chicken, chicken soup, and red wine you wanted for $1.50 -- folks would show up at 4 when it opened, and stay until 10 when it closed. But that one is a long time ago!)

By Texdad (Texdad) on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 08:48 am: Edit

Again, what a great thread. A couple of points. If it is assumed that the grads of LAC's and top privates won't deign to be teachers or nurses etc., not even for a few years,but would rather sit around finding themselves, I would mark that down as a point in favor of large publics. At the large publics, you can hobnob with the intellectual elite,(the profs or those in honors or grad level courses) but still be exposed to those students who are intelligent but either willing or forced to "lower" themselves to work as RN's, teachers etc. while finding themselves. Do you do the middle class student a disservice by surrounding him/her by a bunch of trust fund babies who detest such "low level"jobs.

BTW I spent till at least 35 when I graduated from law shool to find myself. However, having to support myself with a large number of part-time or temporary/ starter jobs in various fields was definitely part of the process and an experience I still value.

Another interesting point is the freeing aspect of living below your means and resisting consumerism. Very important if you want to be true to yourself and follow your dreams. (I realize that for some, making lots of money almost regardless of the field is their dream) However, for the rest of us, isn't it possible that part of resisting consumerism is not falling for the pricier is better marketers of the expensive private schools?

By Marite (Marite) on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 08:56 am: Edit

However, for the rest of us, isn't it possible that part of resisting consumerism is not falling for the pricier is better marketers of the expensive private schools?

Good point. If you go over to the Harvard website, I find a juxtaposition that is irresistible. One thread asks "Are Harvard students happy?" suggesting otherwise, of course. Over it, a new thread, "How do I improve my chances of getting into Harvard?" or some such title.

By Achat (Achat) on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 08:58 am: Edit

Mini, my son came back from a tour of Europe for 3 weeks. He said he spent about $450 on food and lodging. He used to spend 0.5 euros on breakfast and said it was pretty do-able. He stayed in a motel in the suburbs of Rome for 13 euros a night for each room with 2 kids in each room. I thought it was good experience for him.

By Blossom (Blossom) on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 09:03 am: Edit

Texdad, in my experience it is the middle class kids who are sitting around waiting to find themselves, and not the graduates of elite schools from upper middle class families. Teach for America was founded by a Princeton grad; the Peace Corps and other such programs recruit heavily at elite schools as well. There was an article in the Yale Daily Herald last year about a career fair for seniors where the recruiters for teaching, foreign service, etc. were mobbed.


Many of the kids in my neighborhood that I've commented on are graduates of non-elite schools with degrees in business, sports marketing, broadcast journalism/mass communication, etc. who think they're going to be running Disney or Time Warner next week. Although there are a couple of kids from more elite schools who fall into that category, by and large they know that grad school looms on the horizon and that they'll need to get their acts together.

And your point about supporting yourself with temporary/starter jobs is exactly my point... you were supporting yourself. I don't think living off of Mom and Dad qualifies as supporting yourself, regardless of your age (25 or 35).

I also agree with your point about not equating pricy school with better school. However, not every public institution in the US is created equal, and not every school is going to educate every kid to the same degree across the board. I'd consider sending my kid to our State U. to study physical therapy; would have a hard time seeing him in the engineering program in nanotechnology, since there isn't one. To assume that the children of the middle class in my state are the ones who have to become the teachers and the speech therapists because they alone should resist the "allure" of an expensive private college which has a world class program in art history or classics or biostatistics is a little retro, don't you think?????

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 09:30 am: Edit

Mini, my B and his wife are trekkers. They seem to specialize in 3rd world countries and since he is military, he takes advantage of military transport and Space Availables. He has gone to India, Nepal and the like for ridiculously low amounts and without staying with friends. But they camp, and stay and eat native. Not my cup of tea, but they love to do that. But in other ways they are more extravagant than my family. Because we took in so many kids and animals at a time when we did not have much money, we really became household tightwads, something that hold to this day even when our finances have loosened up.

You are right that it is a valuable lesson to teach the kids. So far, for all the troubles the kids have given me, money (knock on wood!!) has not been one of them, other than financial woes I have brought on myself on their behalf (sending them to private schools, lessons, etc--my own indulgences) And we never really talked about our lack of money--we just lived it. We did not live in as nice of a house as many of their peers, did not shop as recreation, shopped used or received stuff as hand me downs from everyone, (I still regularly get big garbage bags of clothes-"there must be someone who fits some of this") and are furniture is mostly castoffs, some from a curbside, some from thrift shops, some give aways. I buy few snacks and junk stuff. But I spend money freely on education and cultural events and I'll be danged if I'm sleeping in a shack in Nepal. Hopefully noone begrudges me a luxery cruise I will take someday with H when I can trust the house is still left standing when we return. And the kids have absorbed more of these lessons than all of the stuff I have been nagging and screaming about for years. Most of our kids are not going to be able to afford living rich, and they better get used to making the most of their money without counting on handouts from home.

As for this thread, private vs state, it is such an individual thing, that dicussing it ad nauseum seems to be a waste except as it pertains to an individual. In general, it truly means nothing as kids' needs and desires are so different. I know families who swore they would not pay the ridiculous private school tuition when they have a great State U, quickly change their minds when their kid came up for college choice. Some kids are pretty obvious candidates for failure in a big, impersonal school when they have not begun to get those study and organizational skills together. Hell, they may not even get registered with the red tape that ensues the process sometimes and getting advising can be a nightmare. Friend of mine's D who was well organized, did well at Uof IL but there was no way that the S was going to go there. They coughed up the bucks to a small liberal arts private school nearby, and with much support and butt kicking he did get through and everyone knew it was by the skin of his teeth and because of the support system there. Money wisely spent, I believe. And yet the D loved her school and is now at a great law school. So two different kids from the same family directed to different choices.

By Mom101 (Mom101) on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 12:25 pm: Edit

Interesting post Blossom, I'm going to do my own informal survey locally to see if this pans out. My impression is that it isn't about what level of school or wealth, but about the entitlement index created by the parents. I've seen many a parent agree that these precious children should not take a job that's beneath them.

By Marite (Marite) on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 12:32 pm: Edit

Texdad:

Ivies do have undergraduate teacher education programs. And as Blossom mentioned, Teach for America was started by a Princeton grad. She wrote her senior thesis on the topic.

By Songman (Songman) on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 01:06 pm: Edit

Don't blame me on this one. This comment/question came from a friend. It really did...... I am just the messenger!

So I mentioned to a friend this weekend the CC board and how wonderful it is. I discussed the various topics that we covered and he was very interested in this thread. I gave him a quick example of all the responses. He said " so what is the end result?" I said "result?" He asked: Does anyone post on the cc boards 2 or 5 years after graduation the end result? Whether it was worth it or not to send their son or daughter to a LAC or 2nd or 3rd tier private college versus the public college. I paused and thought, well maybe there has been a thread that covered the end result? Maybe the CC boards have not been around long enough for people to report the end result? Maybe there is one in the archives? Maybe parents quit posting after the students have graduated?

He said well when you get an answer let me know. He said" I suspect you have a bunch of students and parents who will say anything to rationalize their decision. He said "wait till they find out the reality of the business world"

I asked : "and just what is that reality"? He responded with the ususal: it is not the college but the person,connections, the bias of the management team of the company,chosen field,IVY versus the rest, social class versus the rest,etc. I said well,there are some posters that believe truly that one should attend college for an education and not look at a college degree as an employment/career "meal ticket". He responded with: they are usually delusional and remain bitter years later when they have to help their kids payoff the student loans ,etc.

So has there ever been a thread that has covered the end result? There have been a few that hinted at it. Posts like "my neighbors daughter graduated from Wesleyan or Conn College (just to name a few) and now she can't find a job" kind of comments.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 01:07 pm: Edit

I really don't see kids from any colleges sitting around waiting for just the right job around here. Whether they graduated ivy, which some did, or from local school or the state u, they are all doing something, usually working at some menial job or other. Perhaps it is the socio economical situation of our area, but even in Westchester County where I used to live, I saw kids from all walks of life working after they graduated excepting those who were deliberately taking time off till fall and grad school or were going on some specific program or other. Sloth does not seem to be that characteristic of our kids, in general.

It is a pitfall that some nations, the wealthier Arab ones and Japan have fallen into: expecting their kids to do only the jobs in their "station of life". My friend gets Japanese students as interns for her company which is headquarted in Japan. Most of those kids are children of privilige. One day she was putting together some seminar in the back area of the lobby of the office building where they are located and told the young Japanese intern to help set up the seats, which he did with great reluctance and very slowly. At the end of the seminar, the seats had to be folded and stashed for pick up, and again the intern was not happy to comply whereas a number of top business men in the city seeing the job at hand, not only folded and put away their own seats, started helping with the project. And these were top executives. The next day, my friend got a searing phone call from a representative of the intern's father who was indignant of this shameful treatment of a young man who was there to do "important" things, not manual labor. She explained to him the situation, and then had some older Japanese executive call to reiterate. We do NOT want our kids to be like that.

I will tell you, though, that among the uppermiddle class families I know, many do not want their kids working certain min wage jobs. Many of the fastfood and clerical jobs are manned by young people that these families do not want their kid cavorting with. They are afraid that the kids could end up prefering that sort of care free life and the vices that come with it. And they are not completely out of it. Peer pressure can be subtle but with enormous strength. My H's cousins all ended up with their workmates, choosing their life styles to their more demanding ones. This college carousel is really stressful and looks like total nonsense from some perspectives, and a kid living at home with his own car, his own hours, his own life and freedom all purchased by his shift at Fastfood can be enticing to a kid who is having trouble succeeding in his life in making the test scores, grades, tired of his ECs, hating the essays, and anticipating failure in the college search. It can look like a good way out.

By Mom101 (Mom101) on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 01:17 pm: Edit

In my experience it's the middle class who don't want their kids working at McDonalds rather than the upper middle. I think it's because the middle class are afraid their kids will get stuck there, and the upper middle class see that kids who have grown up in affluence need to learn to get their hands dirty and do not fear it becomming permanent.. It's the wealthier kids in my neighborhood who work at the fish market!

By Mini (Mini) on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 01:18 pm: Edit

I have a step-nephew, an orthodox Jew studying business at Yeshiva U. For the last two summers, (at age 17 and 18), he has run a business in upstate New York, near several orthodox Jewish summer camps and bungalow colonies, preparing strictly kosher take-out pizzas. He has 12 employees, and has netted over $10k each summer. He worked in a pizza joint at 15, and saw opportunity - had he not worked at the pizza joint, it would have passed him right by.

Just suggests there are plenty of different places to "get an education". (I expect there's a chain in his future.)

By Songman (Songman) on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 01:21 pm: Edit

Mini- My experience tells me your step-nephew will do well in life economically speaking that is......

By Songman (Songman) on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 02:47 pm: Edit

bump

By Blossom (Blossom) on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 02:47 pm: Edit

Jamimom, although we were not upper middle class growing up, I can tell you that Fast Food was the best summer job I could have possibly held after Freshman year of College. Late nights cleaning the grease out of the fry-o-later; waiting for the cops to come for their free coffee before we'd walk the cash bag from the register to the safe in the back;refilling the little ketchup dispensers from the big tubs which meant you got ketchup EVERYWHERE-- and it took two wash cycles to get your uniform clean.

Although the kids I worked with were mainly not college bound, I did not envy them one bit. I worked my a&% off for the rest of college, knowing that all that kept me from that life was a college degree!

Although I am now Upper middle class (I guess, from reading the threads here) I made sure that my son's first job involved grease, a uniform, late nights, and plenty of floor-mopping.

By 3togo (3togo) on Tuesday, August 03, 2004 - 01:05 pm: Edit

> Does anyone post on the cc boards 2 or 5 years after graduation the end result? Whether it was worth it or not to send their son or daughter to a LAC or 2nd or 3rd tier private college versus the public college. I paused and thought, well maybe there has been a thread that covered the end result? Maybe the CC boards have not been around long enough for people to report the end result? Maybe there is one in the archives? Maybe parents quit posting after the students have graduated?

Interesting question ... for me 23 years after graduating from Cornell I look back at my time at Cornell and am very grateful for that time and where it led. My professional career has been interesting and successful enough but more importantly Cornell is vital cog in my journey through life which led to a college major for which I had passion and grad school and job choices and friends that eventually led to living in place I love with a lover and kids I can't imagine not being part of my life.

Without Cornell I would not be where I am today and there is no other place I'd rather be.

By Emeraldkity4 (Emeraldkity4) on Tuesday, August 03, 2004 - 01:25 pm: Edit

I think I have posted re jobs elsewhere, but I really advocate volunteering in school as a way to try out fields and to get work experience that is very meaningful and useful down the road.
You don't need to work in fast food to work hard. #1 daughter had volunteered at the zoo since she was 12 working with ponies. Hours and hours a week and more on vacations. Aside from the barn manager & asst. all workers were volunteers, they fed, exercising, groomed the ponies as well as mucked out the stalls and administered medical treatments. Some days she was there from 8 in morning till 8 at night. ( at least) but hey, for a teen girl who didn't like boys anyway to live and breathe ponies? She was in heaven ( As was our dog when she would come home with much nice smelly guck on her boots)

By Barrons (Barrons) on Wednesday, August 04, 2004 - 11:44 pm: Edit

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=nifea&&sid=aIMI5Fx8d9sM#

Nice zingers at the end! Author must be a UW grad ;-)


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