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Help! My son is a senior, accepted at small private university in Oregon, waiting for 9 other regular decision schools. He received a "C" fall semester in AP Calculus AB and is now at "D" level. He has a tutor 3x/week, is definitely in over his head. Should he drop?? What will that do to his chance for acceptance?? or stick it out with a distinct possibility of a "D" his last semester. Works very hard, just does not understand the concepts and how to apply, he is working with the teacher on a regular basis. She is really trying to, cannot go to another class, nothing available. Guidance counselor is absolutely no help, told us to call anonymously and ask "what if" to the admissions office. Thanks for any advice forthcoming.

By La Maman on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 09:35 pm: Edit

At this point, try to have him stick it out and continue to work hard with his teacher and a tutor. (You might even want to try to find a different tutor if the person he is working with doesn't seem to be helping him--he may need someone who will take a different approach.) But it's better to push ahead than to drop this course. His C from first semester is not fatal, and while a second semester D would certainly be questioned by any college where he might decide he wants to enroll, that too can be worked around. (An F might be a bigger problem...)

He might need to have his teacher write a letter to his college at the end of the school year explaining that the low grade was not a function of "senioritis" but rather resulted from a bad match of student to the course, about which nothing could be done. His guidance counselor would probably also have to get on the phone and explain the situation. Most colleges will not rescind an acceptance for this situation--worst case scenario could be some kind of initial academic probation for fall semester (which would be a tough way to start college,but better than the alternative).

It's still early in the semester and he may yet salvage a C out of the current semester with continued hard work. Don't let him give up--colleges would rather see him stick it out and continue to try his best, than to drop it.

By silvermom48 on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 10:52 pm: Edit

La Maman-
Thanks for the advice. I think that is exactly how we are going to proceed (and pray for the "C"). If he indeed earns a "D" then we will send letters from his Calc teacher and tutor. This is not exactly how I pictured his senior year ending up. He has a weighted GPA of 3.8, AP Scholar with Honors, 800 SAT II US History/760 Writing; definitely not a slouch, but this class is way over his head !! He will be majoring in PolSci/International Relations and hopefully no more Calculus classes !!

thanks

By Thedad (Thedad) on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 12:52 am: Edit

As someone for whom fifth-semsester (of college) calculus was a re-enactment of Pickett's Charge,
I'd say definitely try another tutor. (I really like LaMaman's advice.)

Caculus has a steep curve of one concept building on another and if the foundation is shakey then the more advanced elements will topple and shatter.

By Drusba (Drusba) on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 12:58 pm: Edit

Expanding on Thedad, what you are facing is a very common event among high school students in Calculus. A little assurance: it is most likely not because he is incapable; he would not have been able to make it into a calculus course if that were the case. Calculus builds off of all that has gone before from algebra, geometry, pre-cal and trignometry. In the usual case what happens is that the student at some point failed to grasp or totally forgot things learned before, most likely from Algebra 2, or pre-cal and trig. That likely did not hurt him before but once you hit calculus it shows up like a brick wall. Also, once you feel completely lost in calculus your mind tends to give up completely, making it only worse. Many who could probably do well in math into college give it up entirely because of their believed failure at it in high school. I have always thought the best solution, particularly for high school, is for any new math year to begin with a 3 to 4 week period simply reviewing the years before but that is not done. Unfortunately, to rectify the situation, you really need to go back and review most things that took place before Calculus and rebuild points missed and then redo things he has done in Calculus. It can be done but it can be a real struggle because time may not allow it. Even outside tutors can fail to help because they usually try to tutor on what he is doing now rather than trying to rebuild from before. A good tutor who can help do that may be a solution. Sticking it out is probably the best course because there do not appear to be palatable alternatives as dropping the course amounts to an admission of failure that may impact him worse than continuing.

By silvermom48 on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 07:13 pm: Edit

Thank you all for your help. Indeed my son was a product of a new program in the school district called "Integrated Math"...it is now discontinued, so what does that tell you!! He has a definite hole in his foundation when it comes to Algebra 2...He is going to stick it out, no matter what and add letters from his math teacher and tutor at the end of the year to his final transcript (only if he receives a "D")... This is a great forum, I knew someone out there has experienced this before !!

By cty on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 10:47 pm: Edit

let him try the calculus program from the distance learning program at hopkins.It's quite good, and will be a big help

By silvermom48 on Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 01:38 pm: Edit

Cty et al-
I will definitely look into the JHU distance learning program. Update to the ongoing saga...he just failed another test! Most of the class will be able to retake (almost all failed)..this is turning into a nightmare.

thanks

By apcalcstudent on Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 01:53 pm: Edit

ask your son if he has memorize EVERY SINGLE derivative and antiderivate (integral) formula. If he does this, he wont be having a hard time with the "working it out" parts of the problem, it will just be the concepts....im in calc ab ap right now and that is what i truely believe will help him

By Autodidact (Autodidact) on Tuesday, March 11, 2003 - 04:18 am: Edit

Commiserations, my younger daughter has had Integrated I & II, with three a possibility with an excellent teacher at her old school next year. She's now in a district where they don't use it, placement this year was for geometry which seemed to be where her gaps exist. Algebra II was recommended, but K's geometry skills were practically nil, so she went back to gain the necessary skills. I agree with all that's been said on this topic. Chances are fundamentals are lacking, but additionally the teacher may be shaky if "most of the class will be taking the test." Their lessons may have been presented but they evidently weren't learned. By all means look for a different tutor who may know another way to get the job done. Kumon math background might be helpful. Best of luck!

By Texas137 (Texas137) on Tuesday, March 11, 2003 - 11:17 am: Edit

I have 3 thoughts here - first, if everyone in the class is failing, the teacher cannot give them all Ds and Fs. There will have to be some sort of curve. Maybe he'll come out okay.

Second thought is a book "Calculus the Easy Way" by Doug Downing. It's with the Barron's review books at the bookstore, not with the math books. It's short,and he could work through it pretty quickly. It has an unusual, fantasy-story format and is very conceptual rather than rigorous. I've used this book to introduce calculus ideas to mathematically talented kids at very young ages, including one 4th grader. If his holes are in calculus, he might be able to fill them.

Third idea - I don't think it would be a bad thing to drop this course as long as he fills the time that gets freed up with something worthwhile. And I'm speaking as someone who teaches math. He's going to be a political science major for goodness sake! He doesn't need calculus. And if his deficiencies are back in algebra (that's usually the case for students struggling with calculus), you do not have time to go back and remedy that by the end of the semester.

Okay, this is a fourth thought - If it was earlier in the semester I would suggest statistics instead. You only need algebra for that and it would be much more useful to him anyway if he's going into social sciences rather than science/engineering. That might still be a reasonable idea. It's only a 1 semester course usually. Your son is spending maybe 10 hours a week on calculus? More? If he spent even half that much on statistics instead, he could pretty much cover it by the end of May, and he would have something much more useful to him than calculus. You could do a distance learning course, or just get a book and do it as a self-study project. Sign him up now for the Statistics AP exam. If he's ready by May 7th, he can take it and he'll have validation that he covered AP statistics. If he isn't ready by then, he doesn't have to take it. You forfeit the AP fee if he doesn't show up but it's still cheaper than a calculus tutor, and I assume that he is not planning to take the calculus AP exam.

By Autodidact (Autodidact) on Monday, March 24, 2003 - 11:57 pm: Edit

An additional alternative is a CLEP, much cheaper than a tutor, and it is college level regardless of the test selected. My elder daughter is taking STATS at the local uni., after a rough go with Pre-Calc last year. Her major is similar, and as Texas137 said, Stats is a requirement, not Calculus. Work smarter, not harder. Best of luck!

By Collegesophmore (Collegesophmore) on Friday, March 28, 2003 - 08:22 pm: Edit

Silvermom,

First let me say that I am finishing my sophmore year (bc of credits) of college. I took BC Calc my senior year and received a C- the first semester and then my second semester I thought I was in danger of getting a D. Big Deal? not really, I got an F instead; HE's a senior, he's already been accepted, and even the pending ones will make little to no deal over the last semester-even selective colleges are unlikely to care much. I received F's on two of my senior year classes for that matter, with neither of them being 'required' for graduation, it was no big deal. And I'm assuming bc your son is in Calc, he already has enough to graduate.

Secondly, let me point out, I received a 5 on the AP in both classes that I received an F. Like someone above said, its about concepts. Its all about patterns. Its not about being able to do all of it from scratch-or from proof-form...Its just not an effective use of time-for anyone...if he memorizes the right concepts (like being able to recognize deriv's/integrals of trig f(n)'s and even know them (most things like that can't reasonable be done quickly to do well in a class-let alone a test)

Therefore, if he learns concepts that he feels comfortable with, putting them together for a 'complex' problem is easier...and easier and easier will it become the bigger concept that's recognized-for instance if now he breaks a problem into 10 parts, by working and being able to acheive the same result with less parts being incorporated-the quicker the problem/puzzle is. Less pieces and/or bigger peices make puzzles, or math problems, easier....Note: some things will simply have to be 'known' for instance (Sin x divided by x) if you want the extra points on the exam, just memorize at x=0 its the y value=1 IF everytime he saw that he used L'hopital's rule and derived the denom and numerator first, that would take longer (it adds an extra step) and not all of them can be solved traditionally-and honestly sometimes its hard to be creative in a 90 minute period that's designated by someone else...."Everyone draw inside the lines, alright be creative, BEGIN, ok STOP"...yea right it doesn't work that way...

And to the teacher that said he doesn't need to Calc...I disagree, he wont use calc in its raw form, few will, but like I advised for studying, its a needed method for recognizing patterns, that's how you get smarter

*a last note, its said that 60% of the decisions made by the world's best chess players are made from experience (that is they recognize a situation they've been in b4); whereas a beginner makes decisions using less than 10% experience...that 10% often comes from other disciplines...everything is related...laws of physics are analogous to laws of econ, which is based on math and pyschology and thus applies to social studies-behavioral interaction...THUS, that class is important...but don't stress over the grade...the grade isn't. I appreciate your understanding such a long message.

By Silvermom49 (Silvermom49) on Saturday, March 29, 2003 - 02:10 am: Edit

Hi everyone...I just wanted to update the situation here...(by the way I am now silvermom49 because I could not log/re-register with silvermom48!) Dear son studied his tail off for the last test. The tutor spoke at length with the teacher and was then able to zero in on what my son needed to know in order to pass the next exam. He also met with the teacher after school the week leading up to the test. He scored an 84, which moved his grade up to a 72%!! What really shook him up was actually seeing the "F" on his progress report and the daily e-mails I was receiving from the teacher. She was very helpful from the start, very concerned, but also made him accountable. He pretty much studied Calc exclusively, memorized all the derivatives (as directed above) and let everything else slide for a week. Thankfully he is holding on with a "C", no more tests except the final. Thanks for all your help and advice. I will not rest easy till I see the final report card, then I will collapse!!

By Elenavega (Elenavega) on Saturday, April 05, 2003 - 10:16 pm: Edit

Well when I took calculus and failed it first quarter, I had to get an A first quarter in order to get a C. So I talked to the Universities of California Riverside, San Diego, Irvine and Los Angeles and the only one that had a problem with me dropping the class after 1st semester was UCLA. They told me that for 2nd semester I have to have at least a 3.2 and no less than a B in any class (and its normally no less than a C)in order to stay eligible. But some people have to take the course over during the summer in order to stay eligible.