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My son has been accepted at Cornell Architecture, his first choice, but he has also just received offers from Carnegie Mellon-full tuition for 5 years $150,000.00! and money from Syracuse. Also Cal Poly accepted him. We are basically down to CMU or Cornell. The money is tempting and some people have said Cornell's high ranking is not all that significant whereas CMU is underated. Any advise would be WONDERFULL!

By Brownalum (Brownalum) on Sunday, April 04, 2004 - 07:23 pm: Edit

http://www.di.net/article.php?article_id=173

This ranking looks both current as well as accurate.

While Cornell is great (one of my best friends went to architecture school there), I think it would be hard to turn down that 5 year full tuition at CMU.

By Kjofkw (Kjofkw) on Monday, April 05, 2004 - 12:29 am: Edit

From an employer's viewpoint, it rarely matters where you go for your architecture degree, unless you want to teach ( or unless you happen to graduate from the same school as the future employer). I think job experience is far more important. However, you need to compare the degrees offered, and see which one better fits you. Architects also do not make the best salaries, and a huge debt would be difficult.
CMU is a great school for an incredibly great price! What do you feel Cornell has to offer that CMU does not?

By Alette (Alette) on Monday, April 05, 2004 - 01:14 pm: Edit

Thank you both for the feed back - I read all info at the link you posted and it was interesting. The subject of the rankings has caused a lot of discussion in our home for the last year! I agree completely with Kjofkw. It is telling my son that after dreaming of going to Cornell and striving for it and hearing from us how great it would be if he got in...telling him now - oops, can't go there CMU is better.

I beleive the only differnce at this point is that Cornell is Ivy and more of a name dropper. He feels it will open more doors. He has been invited all expenses paid to a weekend at Cornell in 2 weeks and I hope he can go back to CMU as an admitted visitor for a day (he attended a summer Arch Program there 2-3 years ago) so hopefully he will compare them now on equal footing and make a wise choice.

By Wct (Wct) on Monday, April 05, 2004 - 03:58 pm: Edit

Alette-
Have you told Cornell about the CMU full ride? If they want him bad enough maybe they would match the offer?

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Monday, April 05, 2004 - 05:28 pm: Edit

Wct, Cornell does not offer merit aid. Unless Alette's son really prefers the atmosphere and environment at Cornell, I would vote for CMU. I truly do not believe that the differential between the two schools is so great to pay that much for Cornell unless the student is really in love with that school. If he is just comparing the schools on paper, it makes sense to go to CMU.

By Iluvtoshop (Iluvtoshop) on Monday, April 05, 2004 - 08:08 pm: Edit

I would go with CMU, because it is an awesome university and the only difference i can see between it and Cornell is a name. CMU for free is amazing, also if he goes off to grad school or anything he can always go back to cornell debt free hehe. Let us know what he decides to do..Good luck!

By Alette (Alette) on Tuesday, April 06, 2004 - 11:39 am: Edit

Thanks again this is such a wonderful site I will pass this place on to other's in need...my next question was just that - Wct - Could one negotiate something between offers. I had a feeling as Jamimom said...the Ivy Leagues do not give merit scholarships...or at least not much??

By Cuspidor (Cuspidor) on Wednesday, April 07, 2004 - 04:19 pm: Edit

Hey Alette,
I am applying as an international transfer to architecture @ Cornell. I was just looking around these threads and found the word architecture and clicked.
Ive just spent 2 weeks visiting universities in the US, Spain and England.
I've been speaking to many professionals on the topic. The future of your son as an architect does not rely on which university he goes to -BUT, it depends on his MOTIVATION and DETERMINATION (and who he gets to know in university)... the architecture world moves a largely along PR. Of course he has to be super talented, but Cornell or CMU won't make that difference.
Now: each School has a different approach to architecture. Architecture has so many ways of being interpreted. Ussually, the US schools try to give a global vision while education in England is very theoretical and speculative. In the US, the most speculative and avant-garde school is definately SCI-ARC in Los Angeles. But it doesn't matter if thats not his thing. Cornell Arch. has a reputation that really makes people's eyes pop, REALLY. I've confirmed that these past 2 weeks. It is known for being a very tough programme were students rarely have time for fun. Some Cornellians say the arch. kids were so into their work that they never met any!!! I would say Cornell hasn't got the most speculative and forward-thinking approach. Instead, they try to mix this with rigorous technical courses. However, it is so much more theoretical than other places, such as UTexas. I have seen that the main thing that schools in the US lack is theory and challenging academical thought. That's what England has, but they lack the infraestructure. CORNELL HAS A RIGHT BALANCE BETWEEN STAR FACULTY, CHALLENGING APPROACH AND RESOURCES TO DIE FOR.
In the end, IT IS A MATTER OF WHICH APPROACH HE LIKES BEST. Maybe he enrolls and finds its too technical, or too theoretical. MAKE SURE YOUR SON ASKS THAT QUESTION!!!!!!!!!!!! HE SHOULD ASK AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE. HE NEEDS TO ASK EVERY QUESTIOM POSSIBLE UNTIL HE DETERMINES IF THAT PARTICULAR SCHOOL WOULD MOTIVATE HIM.
Motivation is everything.
- Frank Gehry graduated from U. South California
- Norman Foster graduated from U. Manchester (UK)
- Renzo Piano graduated from U. of Genova (Italy)
- Michael Graves graduated from Cincinnatti
- Le Corbusier didn't go to university
- Mies Van der Rohe didn't go to university
- Tadao Ando didn't go to university.

Mark my words: Motivation and knowing how to play his cards right.
I hope this was helpful.

By Alette (Alette) on Friday, April 09, 2004 - 05:45 pm: Edit

You have said very thoughtful things and my son needs to listen to this- I pass many suggestions on to him but as a Mom, they aren't listened to so it is great for him to hear from someone in his zone. I agree with you on motivation 100%. He is going up to Cornell all expenses paid April 16, so he will have a chance to ask those important questions. Although he spent a summer 2 years ago at CMU I am trying to get him to return to see it again as an accepted student and make a better comparison, asking the right questions. I have heard that CMU is much more advanced and forward thinking than Cornel..he does like that and is motivated towards the high tech. So he will need to do his homework.

By Wct (Wct) on Friday, April 09, 2004 - 10:08 pm: Edit

Alette-
As a mom you know that we want our kids to be happy so we won't worry about them too much. It is amazing that your son got a full ride at CMU. What an accomplishment! What a relief that if he should decide to go with CMU he will graduate without debt!

I can only give you a personal perspective as a mom. My son is a first year BFA acting student at CMU. Hard to believe his freshman year is almost completed! He came home various times this year while on "break" and all I can say is he was beaming! I have never seen him so happy. I can hear it in his voice on the phone too. He tells me it keeps getting better and better. CMU is a perfect fit fo him. CMU did give him a good fin aid package but he is still carrying substancial debt. But to see my son, so happy, it will be worth every penny and I know he is getting the highest quality education in his field.

So my advice is, for what it is worth, whatever school makes your son truly happy is where he should go. I hope your son will be as happy with his decision as mine is with his.

By Cheers (Cheers) on Friday, April 09, 2004 - 10:50 pm: Edit

Having worked for some very famous architects in NYC--a great stepping stone to a successful architecture career--I assure you it is MUCH harder to get into the best offices from a non-Ivy university. Your son is right. Getting those jobs depends on who you know and there are many more Cornell graduates in those offices than CMU.
Plus the talent level at Cornell is amazing and the higher the talent level of your peers, the better the education.

By Brownalum (Brownalum) on Saturday, April 10, 2004 - 12:14 am: Edit

I agree with Cheers.


I think this link gives a fairly accurate assessment:

http://www.di.net/article.php?article_id=173

By Alette (Alette) on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 03:04 pm: Edit

Thanks, thanks, thanks

By Worried1 (Worried1) on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 03:26 pm: Edit

Will you let us know what he decides?

By Alette (Alette) on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 04:21 pm: Edit

Yes I will let you know- and I will let you know what happens at Cornell when he gets back.

By Cheers (Cheers) on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 04:30 pm: Edit

Ahem, the way to make money in architecture is to open your own (successful) practice as soon as possible. Believe me, you can make a small fortune and pay back college loans easily. In NYC a partner's fees in a successful, but not famous, firm would be $200-$300 per hour, famous would be $500-$1000+ per hour. Out in the flyover, a partner can charge $150-$300 per hour. It's not medicine or law but it's better than most....

By L_Wonder (L_Wonder) on Friday, April 16, 2004 - 06:59 pm: Edit

small fortune? What the heck are you talking about?

By Cheers (Cheers) on Friday, April 16, 2004 - 08:44 pm: Edit

My fortunes made via my practice. A $200 per hour fee over a year with 40 hour weeks is $400k.
$300 per hour equates to $600k per year and so on. I worked for architects who made millions per year.

btw Would you mind turning back the hostility dial? Please?

By Nick13 (Nick13) on Saturday, April 17, 2004 - 01:55 pm: Edit

bump

By Alette (Alette) on Sunday, April 18, 2004 - 10:41 am: Edit

WHAT DOES "BUMP" MEAN, SORRY!!!

By Lizschup (Lizschup) on Sunday, April 18, 2004 - 11:57 am: Edit

Bring Up My Post-BUMP

By Alette (Alette) on Sunday, April 18, 2004 - 12:51 pm: Edit

Thank you!!!

By Cuspidor (Cuspidor) on Saturday, May 22, 2004 - 06:44 pm: Edit

Message for Cheers,
Hey. I need your help. I have to decide between UTexas and Cornell. I need to know if the 100K more that Cornell will cost are going to pay off eventually. Im talking about undergraduate by the way. Do you have any idea how much a Cornell BArch makes a year? A UTexas BArch?
Whats the added value on Cornell? How much more contact will I have? I like Cornell much more because of their approach, but maybe its not worth 100K. I keep hearing that in architecture all that matters is talent... maybe thats too idealistic.