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This is for Carolyn, northstarmom, thedad, anyone....
I'm in my gov class and we're having a debate. Which is harder to get into? UCLA (from out of state) or Duke? I say UCLA.

Thanks for your input!

By Patient (Patient) on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 10:21 am: Edit

9% admit rate for UCLA this year, I heard. I agree with you.

By Mommydog (Mommydog) on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 11:54 am: Edit

Patient, this is not correct. There is not a 9% admit rate. UCLA has 3900 spaces, but they probably made offers to between 9,000 and 10,000, since their yield is probably 35 to 40%. I'm guessing this year, since there are 300 fewer spots than last year, that the admit rate is about 22%

By Dday2004 (Dday2004) on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 12:21 pm: Edit

out-of-state? I'd have to say UCLA

By Thedad (Thedad) on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 01:24 pm: Edit

out of state? Yeppers, it's UCLA.

By Dreadpirate (Dreadpirate) on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 11:42 pm: Edit

Not enough info. The percentage of out of state applicants accepted means nothing. You have to know the stats of who is applying and who is accepted. If all of the out of staters who apply to UCLA have SATs >1400 then UCLA out of state might be a tougher admit. Chances are, however, that the out of state app pool for UCLA is statiscally below the average at Duke--don't really know, just guessing. I have not bothered to look it up, but I also would guess that the majority of Duke students have stats that would put them in the top quartile at UCLA.

By Caseyatthebat (Caseyatthebat) on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 11:59 pm: Edit

"out of state? Yeppers, it's UCLA." Posted by the august poster, Thedad.

Not even you can get away with such a generalization without statistical documentation to back up your pronouncement. You may have "the goods," I would not presume to know, but just from "hanging around the process," with an academically competitive candidate, I would question your statement. BTW, my son turned down a baseball+academic scholarship to Duke to play baseball at one of the Ivy League schools. I know how strong his academic credentials (etc.) were.

By Patient (Patient) on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 12:22 am: Edit

Well, I had a rotten day (dog with allergies prompting emergency 8:30 a.m. visit to vet; came home to find a flat tire on my car ONE HOUR before I had to drive very nervous irritable daughter one hour across winding mountain roads to her first Royal Academy Ballet Exam. Emergency repair/spare tire, then quick change cars with husband to be safe, then drive an hour listening to Evanescence or some such blaring through her headphones, then back to see client and then off to a (oh all right, fun) self-defense class and dinner with other daughter and a passle of moms and daughters. Now must pack for quick trip to San Diego tomorrow and must on top of all that see that I AM BEING CRITICIZED????? I can't take any more!!!!

Anyway, points well taken. I did check a bit more and see that for 2003, for out of state applicants, it looks like the admit rate was in fact 18%. I couldn't find the information for 2004 yet. Sorry, should never listen to Certain People in My Household.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 12:37 am: Edit

The numbers are there. But I believe Duke has a requirement of 13% Carolina students which reduces their out-of state accept rate correspondingly. Still think UCLA out of state is lower but don't have my reference book handy to check.

Funny, UNC-Ch has an 18% out of state accept rate also but my experience has shown me time and again that a kid who applies to both Duke and UNC-CH will more often get into UNC-CH thanDuke and I don't think I've ever had one get into Duke and not UNC-CH.

The UC requirement for out of staters is quite high with a minimum 3.5 gpa required unless the student scores very, very high on the SATs-1 & 2. Can't empirically come up with anything with UCLA and Duke because I just don't have many kids who apply to the UCs from the East.

By Patient (Patient) on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 12:45 am: Edit

Jamimom, off topic but are you from North Carolina?

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 12:52 am: Edit

Nope. But I have a brother who went to Duke that I sort of mothered while he went to college because my Dad died his freshman year and my Mom went back to the Old Country where she still resides today. I was just out of college then and spent a lot of time at Duke bringing B back and forth and just being there at family type activities. Did more for him than for my kids because I was unencumbered at the time. Also did more with Duke than my own alma mater because B seemed to need the attention even though he was theoretically out of the house. B was very active with Duke long after he graduated and would keep me apprised of what was going on there. It's been a long time but I still get the magazines and alum stuff since I was B's contact person while he was there.

By Patient (Patient) on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 01:28 am: Edit

Thanks....for some reason (senility? something akin to a Freudian slip?) I can't find my college guides at the moment, so I don't have the figures on Duke. I would guess that they are not terribly far apart? I still think that for straight percentages UCLA admits fewer out of state applicants, but it might be hard to answer the question with respect to a particular applicant's chances at the two schools. Hey Slayer, sorry if I gave you wrong information in haste.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 01:41 am: Edit

It is difficult. I have not known a single person who applied to both school as a CA out of stater. But the UNC out of state acceptance numbers are similar to UCLA's. However UNC has far more out of staters than UCLA because more apply there. UCLA is something like 95% Californean. So even with an 18% out of state accept rate, the absolute numbers of out of staters applying to UCLA is low. Given all of that information, it is difficult to assess the schools--apples and oranges. This situation occurs a lot which is why it is pretty futile arguing which school is better than another. Throwing personal factors unique to an applicant into the equation makes it even a more difficult appraisal.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 03:01 am: Edit

Casey, UCLA's out-of-state undergrad population is somewhere around 5 percent; I'm sorry if the fact that I don't have the Academic Planning Budget at my fingertips to satisfy you and I wasn't aware that one needed to provide citations to answer a casual question. Given the relative numbers of out-of-state students that apply to Duke & UCLA respectively, it's harder for an out-of-state student to crack UCLA (or UC Berkeley).

Duke's profile has stronger SAT's but UCLA's 75th percentile is still significantly higher than Duke's median, so the comparisons aren't preposterous. In contrast, Duke has 89 percent of its admits from the top 10 percent of their hs class but UCLA has 98 percent from same. Figures from 2002.

By Shitakirimusume (Shitakirimusume) on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 03:47 am: Edit

My son in-state
SAT 1510 (800,710)
GPA 4.24 (For UCLA it will be lower since they
don't count Freshman)
SAT II Math 2c 790 S 760 W 760
Nationally Ranked Athlete(Captain 4 year Varsity)
National Award winner of Music instrument, Merit Finalist, AP Scholar with distinction
Still got rejected by UCLA.(bio eng)

My older son got accepted by Duke, Stanford, etc.
but chose UCLA. UCLA is tough, even for in-state.

By Patient (Patient) on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 09:36 am: Edit

I can see kids choosing UCLA over Stanford as well as vice versa. Exciting Los Angeles, probably far better, generally speaking, for creative fields (although Stanford is strong in creative writing it appears), etc. For top students either one would offer fantastic opportunities. Shitak, sorry about your son...

Thedad, you're pretty funny, y'know. Touche. (don't know how to do the accents, sorry)

By Socalmom (Socalmom) on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 12:53 pm: Edit

Actually, UCLA made offers to about 8,000 students. They are reducing acceptances by 10% this year due to budget cuts. 21 to 22% admit rate.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 05:05 pm: Edit

Patient, re the touchee (I wish I was using a Mac because keycaps let you do accented letters *so* easily), if you felt a plink, my apologies...any plink was not directed at you.

Royal Ballet exam? Where? What? Please do dish.
Westside, being a Balanchine school, doesn't have them but it has a heavy RAD streak in its training.

By Wobudong (Wobudong) on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 09:09 pm: Edit

Dreadpirate is correct. The acceptance rate is relevant to selectivity only if you know the qualifications of the applicants that you are discussing. This comparison is for all Duke applicants vs only the out of state applicants to UCLA. Since we don't know the stats of either pool, it is absurd to compare selectivity for the two groups. Duke's 2003 mid-range for admits was 1360-1540. Don't know what the mid-range was for UCLA out of state admits or for the applicant pool of either group. Both Duke and UCLA out of state are obviously a tough admit unless you can create off the dribble and have a good assist to turnover ratio.

By Sulurph (Sulurph) on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 10:31 pm: Edit

Jamimom,

You mentioned not having known a single person to apply from out of state to both UNC and UCLA. My S applied to both, as well as Duke. He has been accepted by the first two and still waiting to hear from the latter. He has not visited UCLA yet but I'm curious how the parents on this forum would rate the three schools for a student interested in studying medicine? I would imagine Duke is crawling with pre-meds---maybe a good reason to go elsewhere?

By Shitakirimusume (Shitakirimusume) on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 10:58 pm: Edit

Well, my S got accepted by UCSD(BioEngineering.)
It has been tough.

UCI Honor In
UCSD In
UCLA Rejected
HarveyMudd Nova Scholar Rejected


Waiting for UCB and Stanford.

By Ocliberal (Ocliberal) on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 09:54 am: Edit

Re: UCSB being a zoo. I may be wrong here, but I think any school is a party school if you're looking for a party, and you have to know your kid.

By Ocliberal (Ocliberal) on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 09:55 am: Edit

Oops, wrong board. Meant to go to the "good news" board w/the party school analysis. Duh.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 04:44 pm: Edit

Shitakirimusume, I am sorry and surprised your son did not get into UCLA. A hug to all of you. Did you see the post from a dad whose son was also not accepted with stats similar to your son's? Might want to send him a line because he is having a tough time with what happened and you seem to be taking it in stride. The admissions scene at UCLA is truly crazy to me. All of these talented, talented kids who went through this gauntlet deserve a great dinner and a toast to the work and accomplishments they racked up. I am sure they will do well where ever they go; the system is just not set in their favor at that particular school. My wish for these kids is not only that they find a school they love and will thrive there, but that they find a school that can cherish them for their accomplishments and who they are and not just another in a mass. Perhaps at UCLA that is what they would have been, given the the applicants they have and the school is trying to break this up a little, a difficult task for a school that size serving a state with such exceptional kids.

Sulurph, my son is visiting UCLA. The chances of his getting in are microscopically miniscule as his profile is no where near what I have seen for kids even considering the school. Perhaps he'll slip in as one of those that balance out those top scores like those 900 SATs LOL But I'll pick his brain on what he thought of the school through his east coast eyes. He is familiar with Duke through his uncle so he may be able to give info to share. Just don't all jump down my throat, everyone, if some of his feelings and observations are not to someone's liking! Can't give info if I have to be careful about offending anyone in every possible scenario. I got some people miffed when I just gave some observations about a school we visited last week. No judgements from me at this point, just observations and most of them are second hand from a highschool kid with his own viewpoints and idiosycracies.

By Patient (Patient) on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 08:26 pm: Edit

Hi thedad, no I actually thought it was directed elsewhere. You just have that right touch for the situation.

Beating a dead horse, the OP did not ask for overall acceptances. He asked about out of state acceptances. UCLA and others post total appolicants, total California applicants, total California admits, total admits, so you can figure out the out of state percentage, which of course is lower.

Will answer the RAD exam in a minute.

By Sulurph (Sulurph) on Monday, March 22, 2004 - 11:34 pm: Edit

Jamimom,

I look forward to hearing your son's impressions of UCLA. My son did visit Duke and UNC briefly and could see himself attending either school. Frankly, LA is such a fun place, my son would probably not thrive as much academically at UCLA than at an East Coast school.

By Caseyatthebat (Caseyatthebat) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 04:10 pm: Edit

All the factual information furnished in this thread and in the UCLA/UC/Didn't get in thread has been both revealing and confounding in many ways. Had no idea UC admissions was such a hornet's nest, as a lot of the factual information suggests. Certainly, the OP got plenty of factual information for her class to debate. Plink

By Meredith (Meredith) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 10:40 pm: Edit

Just back from college visits in California. UCLA (through the tour guide, no info sessions) told us that out of staters have a tough time getting in if they haven't had to deal with a "life challenge." Compare that with Duke, where everyone looks like they shop exclusively at J. Crew, GAP and Ralph Lauren. Big difference.

By Shitakirimusume (Shitakirimusume) on Saturday, March 27, 2004 - 07:43 am: Edit

Well, my son got accepted by CalTech & Harvey Mudd yesterday.
Waiting for Stanford and UCB.
Two to go.

By Marite (Marite) on Saturday, March 27, 2004 - 08:22 am: Edit

Shitakirimusume:

Congratulations! Isn't it amazing that an excellent student like your son can be turned down by UCLA--a state university after all-- and be accepted by Caltech, which must be one of the hardest schools to get into? Wonderful news.

By Patient (Patient) on Saturday, March 27, 2004 - 09:58 am: Edit

Congrats, Shitak. One of my friends is a grad of Caltech, now an economics professor and utterly brilliant. Also fun. He loved Caltech. The UCs are currently known at son's school as having been an admissions catastrophe this year. Top kids getting rejected from not only UCLA but UCSB and UCSD. No one was prepared for this, I think.

By Sauronone (Sauronone) on Tuesday, March 30, 2004 - 05:28 pm: Edit

Well, I applied to both UCLA and Duke from NJ. I was accepted by UCLA (with an essay on urination...). I'll let all of you know tonight if I got into Duke.

By Mimk6 (Mimk6) on Tuesday, March 30, 2004 - 09:16 pm: Edit

I live in L.A. I have a son at UCLA and my daughter was accepted (but not going) and let me tell you UCLA seems to have a different way of accepting people. They seem to really care about ECs and the whole well-rounded thing -- they especially seem to like those who were active in sports. I know amazing kids who did not get in. The #2 kid at my daughter's very competitive HS did not get in. I heard that one hoity-toity school had tons of kids get into harvard and two into UCLA. My son had good SAT scores and a good GPA and a longstanding soccer career. My daughter was a very competitive applicant but I'm sure her ECs had a lot to do with it. Berkeley, on the other hand, is much more concerned about AP courses, etc. and a little more predictable in who they take.

By Shitakirimusume (Shitakirimusume) on Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 01:18 am: Edit

Well, My son got rejected by Berkeley,today.
Oh, well.

By Patient (Patient) on Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 01:20 am: Edit

Yikes, Shitak, condolences; but he does have an awesome school to go to....

By Mom2003 (Mom2003) on Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 07:44 am: Edit

Our son got into UCLA & Berkeley (out of state), rejected at UCSD. Go figure!! A lot of acceptance/rejection seems to be the luck of the draw.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 10:42 am: Edit

Shitakirimusume, I am sorry to hear about the UCLA and Berkeley situation. Incredible, with your son's stats and the fact that he got into some of the top schools in the country. CIT is truly a phenomonal school.

Also, my son who visited UCLA last week said that the campus was all abuzz with the unpredictable way admissions works, but that people were saying that transferring into UCLA is not difficult; it's the freshman deluge that is up in the air. I am not a Californean and do not know or understand the system but my son has a good nose for getting info on how things work. If UCLA is still a dream school, that may be the way to go for him.

Best wishes to your son. He sounds like a great kid and I know he will do well where ever he goes.

By Drownindreams (Drownindreams) on Saturday, April 10, 2004 - 02:05 pm: Edit

I know this is a parents forum, but I couldn't help but offer my input.

I'm a graduating senior from southern california, and I am always curious why so many students would prefer a gigantic state school such as UCLA over a private institution like Duke. Most of my several friends at UCLA this year have 200+ people in their classes, are taught by TAs, and spend most of their time out in Westwood and the city.

I understand UCLA offers excellent academics, but could an alumnus/alumnae or a parent of a student shed some light on why public is preferrable to smaller private? I applied only to private and I feel that it's worth the money to have small class size and a more "personal" college experience. Thanks!