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I am in eight grade and I dont know if its too soon to be worrying about college or not. I would really like to enter a competitive college mostly Harvard and MIT but I need help...I need to know what EXTRA CURRICULARS should I take. What GPA would be good? What courses to take.
I know I can because from my school a guy already enter to Harvard this year and last year also. I need some advice.

By Dadster on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 10:05 am: Edit

Aa, the answers to your questions are too long to fit into a simple post. Try reading one or two of the many books that go into a lot of detail about what top colleges are looking for. Two good starting points are America's Elite Colleges or A is for Admission.

You are wise to be thinking about college now. Just don't obsess or get hung up on getting into a specific college, or assume that you have to get into an Ivy - there are lots of places to get an outstanding education, and they aren't all in the Ivy League or the US News top 25. As you think about college, keep an open mind. And as you choose courses and activities, choose those that mean something to you, not those that you think colleges will like. Good luck!

By aa on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 12:07 am: Edit

Maybe I could start practicing for SAT's...for you to have a more general idea of me... I have practice Tae Kwon Do for 8 years now...track&field for 2 and I have 14 eight grade. I get good grades even tough I am going to improve. I know that if I put a goal to myself I'll achieve it. Well thanks dadster

By aa on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 12:40 am: Edit

to edit this i have 14
and i am in eighth grade.

By aa on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 11:13 pm: Edit

can people who studied in highly ranked colleges help me here.

By Morgantruce (Morgantruce) on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 08:34 am: Edit

You should not "worry" about college.

By taking a college prep curriculum and choosing courses that you find challenging, you will be well on your way. If you allow yourself the pleasure of believing that your schoolwork is interesting---it will be. If you become familiar with the type of questions asked on the SAT tests, you can feel confident that your score will accurately reflect your aptitude. Choose only those extra-curricular activities that really interest you, and take those interests far beyond just what the school club does.

There is a widespread belief among high school students that they can somehow fool college admissions officials into believing that they are well prepared (when they are not), are interested in multitudes of activities (when TV is their favorite), and that they belong in a top tier school (when they don’t). Stop thinking about trying to appear better than you are—and concentrate on enjoying what you are studying. College admissions officials are neither dumb nor easily fooled. Their main job is to determine whether you are a good MATCH for their school. You do your job—and allow them to do theirs.

It is not too early for you to learn that what is fashionable or popular is not necessarily the best—for you or anyone else. Finding the right college for you is not just a matter of looking to see who is at the top of a list or how many people want to go there. All good colleges have unique multi-faceted personalities; you do best by finding the few schools that are a good match for you.

If you concentrate on enjoying what you are studying, everything else will fall into place—grades, SATs and college acceptances. On the other hand, a student who just worries about grades, SATs and college acceptances—will not fool anyone but himself. People who enjoy what they are studying are easy to spot—and colleges look favorably upon this kind of student.

By aa on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 09:38 am: Edit

I know this guy who entered harvard last year and he just told the guidance counselor he wanted to go there...she helped him by giving him examples of people who had entered before. So if he kept that rigorous courses and he took extracurriculars he will be accepted. He did not just enter harvard but also yale, standford, princeton and penn. He wanted to study law and now he is were he belongs.
But I think you are right because he is a very competitive person so maybe its a destiny for him to go there. He was social person, intelligent, and he had what it take.
I also believe I can do it...

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 10:13 am: Edit

In addition to taking a tough curriculum and getting good grades, you should pursue formal or informal extracurricular activities that follow your own interests.

Elite colleges are not interested in students who pursue ECs in order to look good to the colleges. The colleges are very interested in students with demanding academics and good grades who also follow their own broad or narrow passions.

I am an alumni interviewer for Harvard, and have served on the national alumni committee that has to do with admissions issues. I have personally heard the Harvard admissions staff, as well as many alumni interviewers, complaining about resume padders. As is probably the case with other top colleges, Harvard is not interested in students who do activities to look good to adcoms.

Harvard is interested in students who do activities because they are genuinely interested in those activities. Unfortunately, few students seem to do this.

Nothing is more boring than to interview a student who has done ECs for resume dressing. The students have nothing interesting to say about the ECs. They say only trite things like "I like to help people. I am a people person," etc.

Their eyes never light up. They have all of the passion of a flatworm. Since they seem to view ECs only as resume enhancement, it also seems doubtful that they would do much to enrich Harvard's environment.

Harvard students tend to do ECs because they love the ECs. That's why there are tons of EC activities on campus including about 60 student-run theater productions a year,many intramural sports teams, a wonderful student newspaper, and several other major publications. Students do such things not because they plan to be journalists, pro athletes or entertainers, but because they love doing those kind of ECs.


Anyway, figure out what you love to do, then get involved in ECs that allow you to do those things. If you can't find ECs matching your interests, then create opportunities for yourself.

Then when it's time to apply to college, pick a college because it matches your needs. Don't choose colleges just because they are well known. Take time to figure out what kind of opportunities you want in your college experience, and select colleges based on what they offer.

Just because a college is Harvard or MIT doesn't mean it is the best place for you. Even if you have the credentials to be accepted, it doesn't necessarily mean that Harvard or MIT would be the best place for your college experience.

By aa on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 11:38 am: Edit

thanxs a lot for the advice...but you see i have already been following your advice. for example all the EC i am now are because i love them and they relax myself. If I didn't like the EC I wouldn't do them with full enthusiasm, for example I practice TAE KWON DO for 8 years and I haven't stop because I just LOVE IT. THE same with track I started two years ago and haven't stopped I JUST LOVE THIS SPORTS. But in high school I want to enter a club or two but I didn't know if to do many EC or if not my schedule will be too full. I just would take 1 or 2 ECs and I wanted to know if good colleges liked this or did they want people with a lot of ECs but they werent really "INTO" nothing.
THANXS northstarmom for making me understand

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 12:28 pm: Edit

My suggestion is to get involved in at least one EC at your h.s. This is a good way to meet people and to find friends in a new environment.
If there's anything that you've always wanted to do, but have never had a chance to try, freshman year can be a good time to do this. People expect that freshmen won't know about activities, so usually there are systems in place to teach freshmen the ropes.

Check out your h.s. web site to find out about organizations. Also ask h.s. students for their suggestions.

Are there any nonathletic activities that you might want to try out? H.S. could be a nice oppotunity to broaden yourself in this way.

Since you like tae kwon do, something you might want to eventually do is to start teaching it. This also might be a fun summer activity. Perhaps you could do this -- for pay or volunter -- at a place like your local Boys and Girls club or at an elementary school, particularly one in a low income area where the kids might not have $ for extracurriculars.

You also might be interested in volunteering with something like Special Olympics. Perhaps you could involve other people from your track and Tae Kwon Do organizations in doing this. This could be fun, a wonderful service, and give you nice leadership experience.

By aa on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 01:03 pm: Edit

thanks a lot for the advice. I have already been myself in a few exhibitions with elementary kids for tae kwon do...I was like the leader. I always try to be involve.
I might want to try debate or/and MUN...also community service.
I love helping others...I dont know when I help them I have this feeling. I like to help elder ones by talking with them mostly because they are so wise about life...talking with them is just an amazing feeling.
Well thanks for the advice

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 03:34 pm: Edit

aa,
You sound like a really nice person.
Since you like talking to the elderly, perhaps you could consider teaching them self defense techniques. They are a very vulnerable population, and I seldom see programs offered just for them. You'd be providing a wonderful service.

Debate and/or MUN sound like good ECs to consider. My suggestion is to do one in school EC as a 9th grader, so you don't over extend yourself. Even for good students, h.s. can be quite an adjustment, especially if one is taking lots of rigorous courses.

By aa on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 03:40 pm: Edit

where are you from northstarmom..you know a lot of advises...
I am from PERU /south america
well thanxs for the advice...
I hope I can accomplish everything I want to...

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 04:59 pm: Edit

aa: I am from NY State, but live in the south. I like working with students, and have done lots of mentoring and similar programs with them.
You sound like a really nice person. I wish you well.

By aa on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 07:47 pm: Edit

i also think i am a nice person...thanks for the accomplishment. You are also a nice person. Well how do you know so much?? Are you a teacher right now?
What are you working at?

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 08:20 pm: Edit

I used to be a college professor. I now consult in the journalism field. I also have done lots of community service and youth development work.

I thoroughly enjoy working with teens because it is fun to help them discover their strengths and passions, and find paths that will allow them to use their strengths and passions to make the world a better place.It's really nice to be able to work with people on the brink of discovering their destinies.

I also warmly remember how much I enjoyed the process of getting ready for college. It was fun being able to finally make a big decision that so affected my life. I also have sons,ages 14, 18, and have enjoyed helping them figure out how best to pursue their interests.

To me, what matters most is not whether a young person goes to a prestige college or even to any colege but whether the person is finding a path that makes them happy and fulfilled (and can, of course support themselves) and also uses their talents in a good way.

What I have enjoyed about your posts are that you sound thoughtful, you listen to advice, and you genuinely seem to enjoy your ECs. I also like the fact that you like older people. Too many people-- even middle age people my age -- write off older people and miss out on the elders' wisdom and kindness.

By aa on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 08:47 pm: Edit

well thanxs again...and to what college are your kids planning to go to?
So in what college you taught?
In a post before you said you interviewed student's in Harvard...you studied there?
Well thanxs you really help me see things more clearly

By aa on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 09:04 pm: Edit

do you know how much does harvard and mit cost? and what is the lowest it can get eitheir by scholarships and loans?

By aa on Wednesday, January 29, 2003 - 01:30 pm: Edit

thanxs

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Wednesday, January 29, 2003 - 06:56 pm: Edit

Check web sites to find out how much colleges cost. The financial aid section of each college web site will tell you how they allocate financial aid. Harvard and some colleges guarantee aid up to the level of documented financial need. There also are merit scholarships that one can get through various ways. Use search engines to get info.

My older son, 18, spent one year at a Big 10 and then dropped out to be a sports reporter. He had turned down 2 top 25 schools to go there. He is a smart kid -- high scores, tough curriculum, only a B- average because he always hated school and refused to work hard.

The Big 10 that he chose was appropriate for him. He likes to watch sports, so he was happy. I was happy for him. I think his life would be lots easier if he had chosen to stay in college, but he likes his life, and is managing to find professional work that also supports him. He's a cool kid, and I'm proud of him despite his nontraditional path.

With both of my sons, I have hoped that they had post h.s. options that allowed them to develop their skills, pursue their passions, be happy, and eventually obtain the means to support themselves.

My younger son, 14, likes school, and appears to be sincerely planning on college. I would prefer that he goes to college away from home because I think that kind of experience helps a person develop independence and responsibility.

I don't have some particular college in mind for him. He is smart, great scores, tough curriculum, great work ethic. He doesn't like sports and is quiet, not into rah rah partying. His friends tend to be very diverse. Judging by how he is now, I think he might be happiest in a small liberal arts college known for its teaching, diversity and students' scholarly pursuits.But the choice will be up to him.

I was a graduate assistant at a tier 2. I also taught grad school at a tier 3, and taught undergrads at a tier 3. The tier 2 was a private school in the NE. The tier 3s were public universities in the midwest and in the south.

I interviewed Harvard students as an alumni interviewer. The only people who interview Harvard students (including the adcoms) are alumni. This is rare. At probably the majority of colleges, the adcoms are not grads of the colleges where they work.

By aa on Wednesday, January 29, 2003 - 10:04 pm: Edit

what is the BIG 10? what did you study at college?
do you think that the engineering program at Harvard is good?
Can you explain the cross register situation between Harvard and MIT?
The thing is that I get this idea that if a student that majors in engineering in Harvard will have the same knowledge as a student majoring in engineering in MIT?
And do MIT students who major in humanities have the same knowledge as Harvard students?
And lastly did you study undergrad and grad in Harvard?

By Morgantruce (Morgantruce) on Wednesday, January 29, 2003 - 11:39 pm: Edit

You're asking questions that are very easily answered by using a search engine. For example, the Google search engine http://www.google.com yields 156,000 different pages that have information about "Big 10". Here's one: http://www.bigten.org/

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 10:28 am: Edit

I agree weith Morgantruce. Use forums like this to ask questions that you can't find the answers to elsewhere. Search engines, college web sites, books, college guides like US News', Time Magazine's, etc. that you can get on magazine racks -- all are the first places where you should go for info. There also are some wonderful books that will give lots of info about colleges. Check your library and bookstore.

If you want guidance from college alumni from specific places, call or e-mail the college's alumni office, and see if they can put you in touch with an alumnus who would be willing to mentor you. Also check the college's web site for student orgaizations that you could connect with. There might be clubs for Peruvians or Latinos or clubs for students in fields that interest you. Such students may be happy to give advice to a middle school student.

By Morgantruce (Morgantruce) on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 01:17 pm: Edit

http://www.studentsreview.com/

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/rankindex_brief.php

http://www.collegeview.com/

http://www.princetonreview.com/

------

Think Different! Examine the colleges and universities that are ranked 15 to 60---where there are plenty of really excellent schools. Find out about them. Find a few that you like and seem to be a good match for the kind of person you are.

Let everyone else get all excited about the top 15 schools that are "over applied" to. While it's OK to apply to one of these schools, your chances of getting in are much reduced just by the sheer numbers of students who think that they simply must attend one of the top elite schools. You can certainly become a well-qualified and well-paid engineer without attending one of the top rated schools. But before you become an engineer, make sure that you become an educated person. You do this for yourself---not for so many lines on a resume.

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 03:30 pm: Edit

I also agree weith Morgantruce that you should look at more schools than just the top names. The best thing you can do for yourself is to allow yourself to fiercely pursue your interests, and then, when you are a h.s. senior, look for schools that match your interests and preferences.

Too many students decide on a place like Harvard and then overlook their own natural interests, and then design their lives to please Harvard adcoms. That's such a mistake. Be the best you that you can be, then find the best college that would make you happy and fulfilled. Also, just because one can get into a very elite college doesn't mean that's the best place for you.

By aa on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 08:17 pm: Edit

What both of you are saying is very true...but who do I know I match that school?
Also I know this guy who entered to harvard and that was all he wanted for college so he with the guidance counselor.
He asked her for the curriculm and the EC of another person who had entered harvard before.
He used this as a base and he just tried to pursue his dream by getting good grades and doing this ECs. The counselor just told him schedules and ECs but it was really hard to follow this guidelines and this guide did...(I don't know if he did exactly what the counselor told him but I am sure he used it as a base, a start).
The counselor is for h.s only so I am not able to make and appointment yet but soon I will.
Coming back to the story this guy entered to all Ivyies and his dream was always harvard so he is now assisting to Harvard.
I will try to do the same but for the moment I was looking for some kind of advise but not from the counselor but from people in this forum also interested in college. I believe if you want to do something you can and you will.
well thanxs for the advice anyway and right soon

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Friday, January 31, 2003 - 11:28 am: Edit

If you want to have a chance at the Ivies, the best things you can do are:

1. Take the toughest curriculum possible in h.s.
2. Get excellent grades
3. Get excellent scores
4. Find a defining passion in some intellectual or extracurricular area, and move heaven and earth to achieve things in that area. This can mean creating opportunities for yourself.

The idea, though, is not to do things just to look good for Harvard. Do things out of genuine interest. Don't let artificial barriers prevent you from pursuing your interests.

For instance, if there is no club in your interest area at your h.s., then start a club or join a professional organization.

It also helps if what you are interested in is not what 50 kazillion other applicants are interested in. Instead of following the crowd, make your own unique path. Be the best you that you can be.

Also do take a close look at Harvard to find out if it's the kind of place where you want to go.

Few things sound more trite in a Harvard interview than when an applicant says, "I want to go there because it's the best," yet the applicant knows nothing about it except for the name.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Friday, January 31, 2003 - 11:56 am: Edit

Great advice from Northstarmom. I want to highlight something she said: Do not do things just to look good for Harvard (or whatever). Find something of genuine interest that becomes a passion for you and take it as far as you can go. Cobbling together a resume to "look good for colleges" is usually pretty transparent and the results are that you look line one of 50,000 other high achievers and wannabes.

As a rule of thumb, few pursuits more brilliantly developed are better than a laundry list of mundane EC's that everyone else has.

By aa on Friday, January 31, 2003 - 01:06 pm: Edit

thanxs for the advice and keep in touch I'll let you know how it goes for me during the years...

By aa on Friday, January 31, 2003 - 03:09 pm: Edit

So i'll take the hardest courses do good on them. Do EC's I like and I'll be fine right? Do sports count as EC's?
Do you think I should apply later on for NHS?
And how many EC's (non-related to sports) should I take?

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Friday, January 31, 2003 - 04:10 pm: Edit

No one is guaranteed to get into Harvard or any of the Ivies. Right now, Harvard takes just 1 in 10 applicants. Something like 80% of applicants have stellar scores, ECs, grades and curricula. Every year more highly qualified students are applying for college, so it is becoming more difficult to gain entry at the top ones.

There is nothing that you can do that can guarantee admission to an Ivy or a very competitive college.

What you can do, though, is take tough courses, get good grades, and pursue with a passion and with assertiveness any of your interests.

People who have demonstrated a passion for somee EC by creating opportunities for themselves are more likely to gain admission than are people who did tons of ECs just to look good on their application.

It's also easy to tell the difference. The people who pursued ECs mainly for resume decoration have boring essays about their ECs, and also show no spark about them when they are interviewed.

A person who pursues an EC out of their own passion, will make the EC sound interesting even if it's on a subject that the reader or listener initially thinks is boring. I heard of a girl whose research interest is worms. She got into an Ivy for undegrad (where she continued her research), and then was the first choice admit at an Ivy med school.

The bottom line is to do what makes you happy and fulfilled. Don't do things to please Harvard. And know that nothing you do will guarantee admission to an Ivy or a highly select college. If you have a good curriculum, grades, and ECs, though, you will definitely gain admission to some college, and perhaps also will qualify for hefty merit aid, too. Ivies don't offer merit aid, but many other colleges do.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Friday, January 31, 2003 - 07:47 pm: Edit

Cheers and whistles for Northstarmom.

Good luck, aa. Do stay in touch. I'll be prowling
the board for at _least_ another year.

Sports do count as EC's. NHS is an okay thing to
have...it's a nice gloss but I wouldn't rate it any higher.

One last piece of advice: don't shoot yourself if you get a "B" in a class. You don't want many of them, to be sure, but it's not Admissions Death if you get one or two. You don't have to be perfect. Really.

By aa on Friday, January 31, 2003 - 08:37 pm: Edit

thanxs a lot I hope you keep in touch until I finish h.s. at least you guys are like my personal counselors.
Thanxs a lot!!!!!!
I WON'T COMMIT SUICIDE IF I GET A "B" I SWEAR...
I WON'T COMMIT SUICIDE IF I DON'T GET INTO A IVY
although
I will still try to aim high and do my best in h.s. and through life.

and lastly I'll try to be the best person I can!

By aa on Saturday, February 08, 2003 - 02:56 pm: Edit

any more advice?

By aa on Friday, February 14, 2003 - 08:31 am: Edit

remember I AM JUST A KID

By Elenavega (Elenavega) on Saturday, April 05, 2003 - 10:23 pm: Edit

When you enter high school, take lots of math, take the PSATs, start with the SATs junior year. Take them lots and lots of times, take the SATIIs too, a bunch of times. Order viewbooks online from the colleges youre interested in. Get good grades (3.8 and above to be competetive and get scholarships) be involved clubs like Drama, ASB, run for office, tutor other kids, volunteer at church, join a sport, work on your essays, because schools require good essays for admissions.

By Upenn06 (Upenn06) on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 - 09:43 pm: Edit

"No one is guaranteed to get into Harvard or any of the Ivies."

Northstarmom,

As a kid who was born and raised in manhattan, went to manhattan private schools, then to deerfield academy, i've seen enough to know that there are, in fact, a number of people who are guaranteed admission to Ivy League schools.
I have so many friends whose parents are on the Boards at Harvard, Princeton, and Yale (actually my parents both went to yale and one is on the board) and lemme tell you something: they do handshakes in the spring of someone's junior year if the check is big enough.
i'm at penn because i like the whole greek thing, but trust me; yale had a spot for me.
harvard, however, takes the cake: we know famlies who have known, since their kids were in middle school, that they all had places at Harvard (granted, they give millions of dollars to the place every year, but still).
the Ivy League is NOT a meritocracy. Yale is not nearly as corrupt as Princeton and Harvard seem to be these days, but they're all basically the same when it comes to children of trustees.

just wanted to point that out.

By L_Wonder (L_Wonder) on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 - 11:25 pm: Edit

upenn06-I am quite sure that Northstarmom was referring to the other 98 percent of the people who are applying to ivy League schools. I am sure that you realized that, but you didn't want to pass up yet another opportunity to brag about your connections.
Why don't you start giving me $100 dollars everytime you mention your "junior-year-yale-handshake" so I can pay off some of these student loans!

By Aatherealone (Aatherealone) on Saturday, April 26, 2003 - 11:26 am: Edit

after a long...man someone help me...like i should've enter honors english, but they did not accept me even though i had great grades...what should i do?im trying to talk to the teachers..

By Theasrhs (Theasrhs) on Saturday, April 26, 2003 - 02:19 pm: Edit

You need to have your parents persistently talk to Administration to get you in.

By Aatherealone (Aatherealone) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 05:53 pm: Edit

u c at the beginning of the year they didn't want to pass me into the higher level of mathematics and then I pass after much persistence, and know I am like one of the best, if not the best, in class. Also I think that at the beginning of next year I'll complain more, because right now they don't listen to me, I hope the new teachers that are coming next year will understand my ideas...any ways to help me pls

By Xiggi (Xiggi) on Thursday, May 01, 2003 - 02:52 pm: Edit

Upenn06~ WealthyIvygirl~

Thank you for reminding all of us that your parents bought your way to college. They must have "spots" reserved for you because you probably would make all adcoms nauseous to review the file of someone so full of herself.

Did they "buy" your book deal too?

I hope that you'll find some humility at Penn, because you visibly need a great dosis of it.