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My daughter passed 7th grade from a public school in US. As I was aiming for her some reputed unversities in US and thinking that the probably the right thing to acheive this goal is(as we can't afford the private schools in US), she should go through
the Indian school curriculam from 8th to 12th grade, we joined her in a school in India for further education.
She got adjusted in India and she is the one among the top 5 in the class, from a school where there is lot of competition.
Can you please comment on this approach.

By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 04:45 pm: Edit

The potential problem is that it is VASTLY more difficult for students who have attended high school in another country to get admitted to a top US school. Non-US citizens who attend high school in the US -even a less competitive public high school - seem to have a somewhat easier time of it because admissions offices can more easily understand and evaluate transcripts, school reports, etc. I would venture to guess that it would be easier to get into a top US school by remaining in the US even if it means going to a "lesser" public high school. OF course, each case is different and if your daughter's high school in India has a good record of getting students into US colleges, you may have no problem.

By Veathako (Veathako) on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 05:33 pm: Edit

Thanks Carolyn for your response.

By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 08:58 pm: Edit

You're going to have to be very pro-active -learn as much as you can NOW about the U.S. admissions system especially for international students and steer your daughter towards what she needs to do.
This board is a good place to start - I'd suggest you post a message on the "college search" section labeled "Student from India" and ask students who are currently applying what they would do differently or are glad they did during high school. You should get some good replies.

By Veathako (Veathako) on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 11:18 pm: Edit

Carolyn,

I did a search under the forum you mentioned.I could not find the exact match but found something close.
Appreciate if you can let me know the exact link.
I will also post my queries under any other label
closer to the info I am looking for under "College search".

thanx

By Mom2003 (Mom2003) on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 05:31 am: Edit

Is your daughter a US citizen/green card holder? If so, this is not a bad strategy.

By Zenmom (Zenmom) on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 06:54 am: Edit

Is your daughter attending an IB program? I know someone who did and now attends an elite university. You need to discuss with her school whether they have any experience of working with students who have applied to colleges in the US. One other problem [aside from transcripts]is recommendation letters. That's a tough one for teachers and administrators who may not be familiar with the degree of specificity required in the letters. What grade is your daughter in?

By Veathako (Veathako) on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 08:28 am: Edit

Mom2003,

Our Green card is under progress and expecting by mid of this year.

My daughter might not be a citizen by the time she joins undergrad.

Can you please let me know the advantages of having a G.C for under grad admission in the US schools.
Thanks for your response.

By Veathako (Veathako) on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 08:49 am: Edit

Zenmom,
can you please explain what is an IB program and it's significance?

I just got from the net the full form of IB
(International Baccalaureate ) Did I say that right?

My D is studying 8th grade in India.She studied from 4th grade to 7th grade in US and was an outstanding student in the schools she studied.

How can I enroll my daughter to an IB program.
Are there any online coachings available?

I also would like to clarify myself about the recommendation letters.Just a briefing please...

Will it carry any weight if I collect some (from lower grades which is 4th to 7th) from the US schools.

Thanks for your response and helping me in this journey....

By Mom2003 (Mom2003) on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 09:50 am: Edit

Green Card makes her eligible to obtain financial aid, otherwise you will have to pay full tuition since very few international students get any fianncial aid.

By Veathako (Veathako) on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 10:21 am: Edit

Mom 2003, thanks for the info.

I heard from some of my friends that the chances of getting the fin aid might get reduced for the students having college saving plans already,
even though they have very high SAT scores.

Is that true?

We haven't started any college saving plan for my daughter. Do you suggest to have one?

Thanks again.

By Zenmom (Zenmom) on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 10:32 am: Edit

Some of the schools in India offer IB programs, I'm afraid I don't have any names. You will need recommendation letters from teachers who have taught her during junior and senior years in high school.

Completing college applications with a child living at home was a daunting and stressful task. Personally, I don't think we could have done it if D lived in another country. I would be a wreck wondering if things were being done right and in time.

By Veathako (Veathako) on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 10:59 am: Edit

Zenmom,

regarding IB,I will start researching about the IB progarms in India and also is it feasible for my D to attend these programs.

(Please, can any one else pass on details related to the IB programs offered in India?.)

Regarding the applications, I think we can try to overcome the hurdles in completing the college applications when the student is in another country by being proactive and also by taking the help from my close friends/relatives who are in US.

Thanks.

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 11:40 am: Edit

Veathako,
I've been thinking a while about your situation, which is one that I hadn't encountered before. Here are my thoughts.

1. If you are in the US, I think your D's chances of acceptance into an excellent US college would be improved if you keep her with you. This is because you would be in a better position to track her progress, to track how admissions standards are changing, and to help her do things outside of her coursework that would make her stand out.

2. In many respects, a student who has sky high grades and scores at a public school here that typically doesn't send many students to excellent colleges will have an advantage over students who are at the US's top private schools.

This is because the top colleges -- places such as Ivies -- want to diversify their student bodies, including the types of schools where the students come from. I know that at Harvard, students get extra consideration if they would be the first students from their schools to attend Harvard. Students with high stats also get extra consideration if they are in a school in which the majority of students are very low performing.

3. One thing to keep in mind is that going to the best school in the country, having high stats such as 1600 SATs, straight A averages does not guarantee that someone will be accepted into a top US college. Compared to other countries in which getting into college is strictly a numbers game, the admissions methods of top US colleges may seem difficult to understand. That's because the top US colleges want to have a mixture of excellent students.

If it looks like students have been mainly motivated by grades, places like Ivies often will not accept them because the admissions committees want students on their campuses who will get involved in extracurriculars, not just study. With the possible exception of colleges like Cooper Union and Cal Tech, which I think are very numbers driven, US colleges view ECs as a very important part of a person's education.

When it comes to the top universities, most applicants are very well qualified for admission, so what gets applicants in are other factors. The Ivies strive to create diverse classes meaning that the students who are admitted will add to the membership of the hundreds of campus organizations -- ranging from obscure types of sports teams to publications to arts organizations.

Anyway, I think that if such a college discerned that your daughter was sent to live away from her family for high school in order to increase her chances of getting into a top US college, that may even lower her chances of admission.

Some adcoms may view her as a young woman whose parents virtually abandoned her as they tried to position her for stellar academic success. She might seem to them to be the epitome of a student who has spent their adolescence creating a life designed to impress college admissions officers. That is the type of "programmed" students that adcoms have said they do not want to accept into top schools.

My guess is that it may be hard for you to imagine that behavior that might gain admiration in your home country would be considered a problem here. This kind of difference in cultural perspectives, though, is why so many Asian families feel devastated when their beloved offspring who have very impressive grades and other stats are rejected while someone else from their school with lower stats is accepted. If your daughter is schooled abroad, it would be difficult for her to get an American perspective on what she should do to raise her chances of admission to a top school here.

If she is in this country, though, she would be in a better position to get inside knowledge on these issues from her guidance counselor and classmates.

By Veathako (Veathako) on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 01:14 pm: Edit

Northstarmom,

1.
I am not going to leave my D to be on her own during this crucial years of her life, which is a turning point for any student’s life.I am planning to join her from the beginning of 9th grade.

2 & 3. I do agree on this to some extent. But the numbers do matter and my understanding is below the level of a specific SAT score these top schools will not consider the application at first place.

The agony I faced when my D was in US is about the avilability of the study material and the intensified coachings for Math and sciences.

Most of the Indian school curriculam (from 8th grade to 12 th grade) are structured in a way that the student should be able to stand for any International exam of 12th grade standard.
Also intensive coaching will be given to the students of 11th and 12th grades and private coaching programs are available for the students who are aiming for higher ranks in the tests like IIT entrance etc.(you must have heard about IIT)

As a parent I can't sit tight just by joining my D in a public school from where the % of students getting admission in to these top colleges is very less.

Also one thing I observed is that there is no much competition among the students in the public schools.Because of this there is not much a student can learn from the classmates.

The whole idea behind my thoughts is numbers stands the first place for considering the application then the second stage would be the EC's and AP's etc.Please correct me if I am wrong.

Yes, there are some disadvantages like validating the transcripts, recom letters and EC's.

Can any one let me know does Indian scools carry AP's? and what kind of EC's are being considered by the top scools in US for the international students?

thanks.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 01:53 pm: Edit

I agree with Carolyn's assessment of your situation. However, you need to get numbers and info from the schools in India to gauge how common it is for a given school to prepare a child for an education here.
I sat and spoke to an Indian woman last night during my littles' swim practice. She is not thrilled to be here but is enduring because she feels her kids will have an advantage getting into a good college here in the US as opposed to applying from India. She is very familiar with the process since both she and husband did apply from India and both went to college and grad school in the US. Both of her kids are top students in a very competitive school district where there are quite a few Indian families that seem to do quite well as where their kids end up in college.

By Marite (Marite) on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 01:53 pm: Edit

Veathako:

The International Baccalaureate is a program of courses designed to prepare students for a set of exams at the end of their high school. It was created in Switzerland and is modeled to some extent of the French baccalaureate. It was designed to accommodate the needs of children of diplomats who must move frequently and who needed consistent curriculum and recognized yardsticks of achievement. In some ways, it is comparable to the AP program in the US and the A levels in the UK. Incidentally, A levels are accepted in most highly selective US colleges, so if Indian schools offer A levels, you need not look for an IB program. Many would consider the IB program more rigorous than AP classes; it is more integrated horizontally and vertically, whereas students can pick and choose which of the many available AP courses they wish to take. For more information about the AP courses, including whether AP courses and exams are available outside the US, look up the College Board website:
http://www.collegeboard.com
There are other ways of accommodating a child who is good at math and science short of sending her to India. For example, there are some public magnet schools, private day or boarding schools, distance learning programs, etc... You might want to consider these alternatives though I can also understand the benefits of having your child grow up in India.
ECs vary enormously. They can be performing arts, fine arts, journalism, sports, community service, paid work, volunteer work. The important thing is commitment and passion. What NSM was raising is the fact that most non-US schools do not put emphasis on ECs and thus do not provide the structure that facilitates student participation in ECs whether that be sports or music or the school newspaper, or peer tutoring. Foreign applicants who are unaware of the importance of ECs are often at a disadvantage when compared with American students.If your daughter is already involved in some kind of non-academic activity that she likes, she is already ahead of the game.
Regarding the green card: it is my understanding that a green card holder must spend a minimum period each year in the US. If your D attends school in India, will she be able to satisfy this requirement?

Hope this helps.

By Veathako (Veathako) on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 02:19 pm: Edit

Jamimom,

Whatever you said regarding the Indian kids, who are doing great in schools and getting good ranks is right. I agree.

Probably they might be falling under well setteled Indian families in US. But our jobs (present economy matters here) are demanding us for frequent relocation from state to state in US. This is another reason for making my daughter to study in India so that she can get the stability, which might help her to achieve her goals.

Thanks for joining this discussion.

By Veathako (Veathako) on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 02:54 pm: Edit

Marite,

thanks for passing on the details.

After searching the Collegeboard site,
I just called the college board staff and they said they don't keep the list of the schools providing the AP program. I think this is something I need to check with the high schools in India.

Yes, you are right regarding the requirement and the minimum stay for a GC holder. We thought of meeting this by getting my D to US every year during her vacation time. :-) We are about to begin this adventure....

Thank you.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 08:09 pm: Edit

Moving around is tough. We have moved around so much due to jobs. None of my kids finished high school in one place, never mind school. We did have some advantages that way too, I must say. But I wish we had had some more stability. I am hoping we stay here for a while.Good luck to you and your D.

By Momrath (Momrath) on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 10:15 pm: Edit

Veathako, Here's IB Organization website:
www.ibo.org/ibo

You can go from the mainpage to a list of IB schools in India.

The IB diploma is well respected at elite colleges and universities in America though it is not widely taught at American high schools.

Aside from an asset to college admission, pursuing the IB diploma is a wonderful way to learn. Personally, I think superior to the AP program in depth and comprehensiveness.

By Mom2003 (Mom2003) on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 02:29 pm: Edit

Veathako

Some suggestions:
1. IB diploma schools in India may be international schools which are often meant for international students and charge high tuition. May not be worth it for you.

2. Lots of Indian kids on the College Admissions part of the board. Send an e-mail and get their suggestions. Several have done well in admissions. You will get a lot of pertinent information.

3. Make the best of what your daughter is and where she is living. Instead of trying to match U.S. kids in their ECs, let her build on her unique circumstances. For example, my Indian friends often talk about learning Indian dance and doing public performances. Mountaineering and community service also seem easy to come by in India. Make sure to tape the performance, recital etc. So that she can use it in her application.

4. Arrange for her to take AP tests on her own. She may need to visit the U.S. to do that but presumably you plan a visit or two yourself. (Check into international administrations).

5. Talk to admissions counselors at the International schools. As I understand it, lots of kids from various international schools in India get into good colleges.

6. Think about hosting some international kids in summer/winter break. Find some sort of exchange program. It will expand her horizons, give her a great opportunity to make friends and wonderful essay topics.

7. Have her attend a good summer camp in the U.S. For example Johns Hopkins CTY camp. The counselors can also write recommendations. It is an expensive option, however.

8. Relax and be the supportive and caring parent you are. She will do well. Read, learn and innovate.

9. I really do believe that your daughter can easily look more interesting than the run of the mill suburban kid, white or Indian-American. You just have to find ways of making it happen ... and not just for college but rather for her to find her own place in this world. It can't be easy for a kid who grew up in the U.S. to move to India. So helping her develop her unique personality and gifts may be your way of helping her bridge this cultural divide.

P.S. I don't see your taking her to India (or even sending her to India) as being abandonment. If so, most parents of kids at Choate and Exeter have abandoned their kids! I see it as a great sacrifice you are making for your child's future. I bet she can get some interesting essay topics out of this!

By Varambally (Varambally) on Saturday, January 31, 2004 - 09:58 am: Edit

Veathako,
I went through similar dilemma and decided to go back to India. My D has taken an IB program in India for her 11 and 12 grades. She is a junior now. I am looking at the possibility of getting her into a very good univ in US. There are about 10 IB schools in India which are all good but very expensive compared to other regular schools (might cost you around $7K/year).

As far as admission is concerned I am not too sure how adm off here would look at these students. The fact they studied abroad might even enhance their chances OR they may think that these students donot have US living experience.

I have a related question: My D is US citizen and has done all her schooling in India. Does this mean she will be considered an international student OR US citizen from admission perspective?? What about financial aid, will she be eligible just like other US citizens?

thanx

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Saturday, January 31, 2004 - 01:10 pm: Edit

If she's a US citizen, she'd get the same consideration that other US citizens get, and might also stand out in the pool because she'd be unusual in being an American who has lived abroad.

By Veathako (Veathako) on Sunday, May 23, 2004 - 11:40 am: Edit

Does anyone know the public high schools in ohio (cleveland or Medina area) having accepatance record to Ivyleagues for my 9th grad D.

Thanks in advance.