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Well this is the deal, perhaps a few of you have somewhat heard it already. I am an international student and unfortunately as one, dont get financial assistance. I live in Colombia and I love it here but I want to get out and go to the US (perhaps Canada). I have applied to 10 schools and plan on studying marketing undergrad and then going to grad school. The problem is, that to pay for my education I have to get a full loan which I will have to pay upon graduation. I love my list of schools but some are more expensive than others. The prices range from 16k (McGill) to 40k (NYU) and I just dont want to have to pay 160k when I graduate. I have eliminated NYU, BU, and USC as possible candidates because of their expense but I understand that somewhat cheaper schools like Maryland are still going to end up costing me 100k a year. I need some sort of advice, please dont tell me what other schools I should apply to or that I should stay in Colombia, but instead what I should do to lower my loan and if I should go with, say, UNC over UMich because of its considerably cheaper tuition. Thank you very much.

By Vulcano (Vulcano) on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 04:09 pm: Edit

Anyone?

By Marite (Marite) on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 04:11 pm: Edit

Vulcano:

Several excellent students from our high school in Cambridge, MA are attending McGill and are loving it there. They actually find McGill more challenging than many US colleges. Give it serious consideration.

By Hnbui (Hnbui) on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 04:18 pm: Edit

umich is still expense for int. students i think. It's about 27,000 a year for outer state students. (I think that's the figure, not really sure) I would say apply for alot of finanical aid. Also try www.myrichuncle.com i am planning to use that for my undergrade and med school loans.

Have you gotten accepted to any of the schools you applied to? If you sent them all the forms for financial aid, then you could call them up and see if they have a figure for you yet.

By Lvdad (Lvdad) on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 04:50 pm: Edit

Vulcano:

I will echo Marite's recommendation regarding McGill. Several students from very good high schools in New Jersey have attended McGill and seem to be very happy there. There was an interesting newspaper arcticle in November or December in the New Jersey Star-Ledger newspaper, describing the experience of U.S. and in particular, New Jersey students that chose to attend McGill and other Canadian universities - a very informative article. Definately worth considering.

Also, U of MIch is very expensive if you're not instate, pratically approaching private school costs. I beleive the total cost is actually over $30,000 per year.

By Vulcano (Vulcano) on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 05:18 pm: Edit

Thank you for your responses. Hnbui, I am an international so I dont get financial aid. I am seriously considering McGill but if I dont get accepted I'll end up going somewhere in the US. What are possible forms for international students to get money?

By Vulcano (Vulcano) on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 07:40 pm: Edit

bump

By Thedad (Thedad) on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 07:46 pm: Edit

There really aren't many established channels. A few schools have *some* aid for internationals but the general assumption is that if you're an international coming to the U.S. for education, you can pay for it. If this sounds ruthless, it is.

By Vulcano (Vulcano) on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 08:41 pm: Edit

I know all this, Im wondering if there is a way, once in college, that I can make money for myself or get some sort of merit scolarships or whatever. Tutoring spanish perhaps?

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 09:05 pm: Edit

There are merit scholarships and financial aid for international students at some schools. There are posts on this board that address this. It is generally not as easy to get scholarships once you are in the college because a lot of the awards are renewable and for freshmen. You need to discuss this with the individual schools. As to making money once you are in, it depends on the type of visa you have, what status you are. However, many students can find jobs with "under the table" wages doing things such as tutoring, babysitting, housesitting, pet walking, errand running, etc. There are generally many posting boards where these things are advertised and you can post your availability as well.All of my kids worked jobs during college, and sometimes they would take jobs of this sort. My niece did well reading for a blind student for a year, for example, among other jobs. None of them had any trouble finding work and the type of schools they attended varied widely. Now time management was always an issue because of ECs, athletics, studygroups, a personal life... all of these things and more , but they did find time to work somehow.

By Hnbui (Hnbui) on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 09:17 pm: Edit

have you tried calling the schools to see if they have financial aid avaible to int.s students?

By Marite (Marite) on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 09:30 pm: Edit

vulcano:

One college that has funding for international students is Brandeis. It has a Wien International Scholarship. However, it is very likely that the deadline for applying both for admission and for the scholarship has passed. But you should check the website.
Jamimom is right about the importance of the type of visa you will need. I would caution against relying on your earnings to make a dent in your college expenses. Regulations regarding work for foreign students have changed several times over the last decade or so. In college, many staff and faculty may give preference for students who are on work-study since it means that part of the students' wages are actually paid for the federal government, making it cheaper to employ them while affording them a decent hourly rate. But you need to be a US national to qualify for work-study.
In general, Canadian universities are less expensive than US ones. I would recommend looking at Toronto, York, University of British Columbia as well as McGill. Perhaps others can chime in with more suggestions.
I also suggest you read the thread about transferring to a cheaper school. A student who decided to attend her dream school hoping that her financial situation would improve somehow is having second thoughts about saddling herself with debt that may total 100k. It is a sobering consideration.

By Massdad (Massdad) on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 10:24 pm: Edit

You should also be aware that most loan programs are not available to international citizens. Worse, the US Govt has tighened up on the reporting requirements of US colleges, to keep students from dropping out and going underground/undocumented.

Tread carefully here - there's a tough, hostile attitude in Washington.

At one time, folks in your position would head to California, establish residency etc, attend a community college for a year or two, then transfer to U. Cal, all at bargain prices. I don't think you can do that any more.

Any clarification from my west coast colleagues?

By Vulcano (Vulcano) on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 11:20 pm: Edit

Thank you for your responses. Massdad, there is an organization specially made for internationals that loans up to 45k a year, thats actually what my brother is using to pay for his studies at UTexas-Austin.

By Valpal (Valpal) on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 12:37 am: Edit

What kinds of aid are available to American students attending college in other countries? Does the Canadian government subsidize the education of American students attending its schools, for instance? What about Great Britain, Germany, France?

I suspect that Americans are not the only people who have a problem with the idea of subsidizing the education of foreign nationals with their own Tax dollars, especially if they can't avail themselves of such funds to finance their own childrens' education.

Massdad, I don't know if I would characterize the atmosphere in Washington now as, "hostile" to foreign students, so much as, "cautious". Wasn't it discovered that some of the 9/11 hijackers had long overstayed expired student visas? For years, the INS has been lax in tracking the whereabouts of foreign students here on education visas. How vigilent are other countries at keeping track of persons residing in their country on visa? I ask because I honestly don't know.

I have great empathy for students such as Volcano. I do hope that he is able to find good private funding for his education at a U.S. or Canadian school. If U.S. colleges and Universities value the diversifying potential of foreign students on their campuses, they should be willing to financially back that effort. However, I firmly believe that educational aid, backed by U.S. Tax dollars ought to be primarily reserved for the children of U.S. Tax payers. Does this go against logic?

By Vulcano (Vulcano) on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 12:47 am: Edit

Seems perfectly logical to me.

By Massdad (Massdad) on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 11:36 am: Edit

Valpal, cautious or hostile? Depends on where you are standing. And, it depends on how the rules are applied. Because Boston has so many ed institutions, this issue gets some press here. There are too many tales of kids, especially grad students, not getting visas, being stuck in endless beaurocratic loops etc. for me to just call it "cautious".

Regarding other countries offering aid to american students, just check out McGill's web site. They offer merit based aid to american students. How much, I cannot say. Their web site specifically discusses the minimum requirements for students from an American high school to qualify for aid.

By Marite (Marite) on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 11:58 am: Edit

Valpal:

I agree that educational aid backed by US tax dollars should be primarily reserved for the children of US taxpayers. However, many colleges and universities that offer merit aid are private institutions and raise funds from private sources to fund this merit aid. Some may be willing to provide aid to non-US residents.

By Emilyp114 (Emilyp114) on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 02:30 pm: Edit

Canadian universities do charge international students more than Canadian residents. For example, at U of Toronto, an Arts and Science student would pay approximately $5000 tuition if a resident, while it would be close to $10000 if an international. The engineering school's fees are similar in scale, $7000 for a resident and $14000 for an international. However, having said that, both are subsidized by Canadian tax revenues because neither represents the full cost of the education provided.

Merit aid is available for international students, but that is also the case at most U.S. colleges.

By Vulcano (Vulcano) on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 02:31 pm: Edit

Tulane is one of the schools that does that. By the way, I have a question. Lets say Tulane gives me 15k for my freshman year (the most they give to internationals) and makes the school considerable more affordable. Do they guarantee 15k for the following years? If so, going there would not be such a big expense, but if they deny me financial aid in my second year I would be in big trouble.

By Valpal (Valpal) on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 02:41 pm: Edit

Massdad, is the sort of beaurocratic nightmare being encountered by foreign national graduate students a new thing? "Government" and "beaurocracy" should be synonyms in the dictionary---in any dictionary, in any language. Redtape has always been regarded as "nightmarish". The INS, being a government agency, can't help but fulfill all critera for the word, "beaurocracy", and the effect can only be exacerbated by terrorism induced panic. It's a sad thing that, during times of crisis, common sense in Washington is a commodity all the more rare. I don't think that tendency changes to any great extent from administration to administration.

Regarding aid being offered by McGill to American students: Is it government funded aid, or privately funded aid? Just curious.

By Massdad (Massdad) on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 03:55 pm: Edit

McGill aid: do not know the source, although one could argue that it does not matter, given the way academic institutions move funds around.

By Emilyp114 (Emilyp114) on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 04:47 pm: Edit

All Canadian universities are public so although they may receive SOME private $$, it would be minimal compared to government funding.

By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 08:12 pm: Edit

Vulcano - read Tulane's (and other schools) financial aid information very carefully and ask a lot of questions. I have noticed that not every school guarantees to continue the same level of grants for all four years.

Also, since no one has raised this question, I will. I think it's important in making your decision to consider whether you can get a decent undergraudate education at a far lower cost at a school in Columbia. When you're talking about the possibility of going deeply into debt, it's important to weigh all options.

Good luck.

By Vulcano (Vulcano) on Monday, January 12, 2004 - 11:22 am: Edit

Thank you Carolyn. Colombian universities are very good and not very expensive but I simply dont wan't to live here for four more years, not at this point in my life at least. Besides that, college here means all my classes would be in spanish and thus my english would take a hard hit and put my chances for grad school in danger. I've thought about staying here, but due to my father's work, Ive moved around the world every three years and seem to get bored of places rather quickly.

Also, referring to Tulane, should I just e-mail the financial aid office regarding such a matter or give them a call?

Thanks again.

By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Monday, January 12, 2004 - 11:42 am: Edit

Either call or email the Tulane financial aid office and ask about renewability. Ask specifically about how many students get their full freshman package renewed all four years. Even better ask: Is there any chance that my package will not be renewed or will be lessened over the four years? If so, what would trigger this?

By Gadad (Gadad) on Monday, January 12, 2004 - 01:10 pm: Edit

Vulcano,
I was shocked the other day to see that Brigham Young University's tuition is under $4000 a year. It's a Mormon institution with a strong religious component, and if you're not Mormon it would certainly add to any culture shock you may experience as an international student. But BYU is ranked among the top third of American national doctoral universities according to US News & World Report. $4000 a year is bizarre for a private university - it's even far below the in-state tuition rates of most public universities. The room and board were relatively inexpensive as well.

By S17 (S17) on Monday, January 12, 2004 - 01:26 pm: Edit

Gadad,
The low cost of BYU is due to the Mormon church's extensive tithing system. Faithful members give 1/10 of their increase to the Church, and some of this money is spent financing and maintaining BYU. Because members give so much income over time to the Church, their tuition, room, and board is low. I believe (but am not 100% positive) that tuition for non-members is much higher, somewhere around 10K, simply because they have not contributed money over time to the Church.

As for the institution itself, gaining admission is not terribly difficult (they accept about 80%), but in the case of Vulcano, I would not recommend his attendance, for the reasons you stated. The school is predominantly Mormon, about 96 or 97%. You are entirely correct that Vulcano would experience significant culture shock on top of that of an international student. Even non-Mormon American students who attend would feel as if they stick out like a sore thumb.

I am a Mormon who comes from a family that shuns BYU, mostly because of the perverted social atmosphere. I briefly considered BYU, but quite honestly, many students see it more as a stepping stone to marriage rather than an opportunity to become educated. I simply did not want to be surrounded by a bunch of people who did not care about learning. While a few of the departments and professors are top notch, the average, non-Mormon student would be better suited at other institutions. Coincidentally, many of the best Mormon students that I know also avoid BYU because it is not "challenging enough". Based on the other schools that Vulcano is considering, BYU would probably not provide him with the opportunities for intellectual exploration that he deserves.

By Vulcano (Vulcano) on Monday, January 12, 2004 - 02:42 pm: Edit

I appreciate suggesting BYU but I would never want to go there. I have many mormon friends and they tell me they hate the thought of attending such a conservative school in such a "boring town" (this coming from mormon people...). Besides, I am not very religious and being immersed in such an aura would be very discomforting. Thanks for your posts.

By Olaechr (Olaechr) on Thursday, March 11, 2004 - 12:27 am: Edit

HI Vulcano, I am also an int. student from South America (peru). Could you give me information about the specialized inst. that lends money for int students?, thanks in advances and cheers