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Okay, DD's apps are all in the mail.. Apart from a) checking in a few weeks to make sure all parts have arrived b) gathering financial aid documents to try and meet the Feb 1 profile deadline and c) hoping and waiting... is there anything else my DD should be doing to increase her chances of acceptance? Is it considered good manners to contact the adcom, or the extracurricular things you want to take part in in college, of is it a bother for them when they are too busy? Advice please.

By Marite (Marite) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 08:55 pm: Edit

Unless you have new information to share (a new award for example), I would advise not to contact adcoms. They are indeed very busy. But do make sure that all parts of the application have arrived, including recs, GC's report and transcript.

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 09:07 pm: Edit

If she wins a MAJOR award, then she should send mail that info in a brief letter, restating her interest in the college. I had my son do this after he got 2 major awards early during spring semester of his senior year.

Other than that, don't bother the adcoms.

What you could be doing: D needs to be making sure her grades stay high, and if she hasn't taken midterms yet, she needs to study hard for them.

You need to be savoring your last days with D as a h.s. student. Also start putting into place household changes that will allow her more freedom and respect the fact that she's a young adult who'll soon be on her own.

Start thinking, for instance, how you'll change house rules over the summer. After all, come the fall, she'll have total responsibility for how late she stays out at night, etc.

Too many parents seem to think that the summer before college is the time to clamp down to show who's boss. IMO all that leads is to lots of anger and hurt during those days before college.

My suggestion is to consider easing the parental controls so that by summer, you expect of her the same kind of consideration and behavior that you would of an adult guest. She probably will do some things that aren't the wisest, but IMO it's better to do such things before college starts and while parents are still there to offer guidance and support than to do such things once one is in college and the consequences of doing things like staying out too late are more severe.

Prepare yourself, too, for the fact that most kids begin to distance themselves from parents as college approaches. I think that this is so that the teens can leave home without feeling their own hearts break.

Some parents erroneously view this distancing as meaning that their kids don't love them. Instead, it's a sign of deep love and affection. The worst thing that one can do is to try to use guilt or anger to force a kid into togetherness when it really is the time for the teen to test their wings.

By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 09:09 pm: Edit

Marite and Northstarmom - I have to say that I have learned so much about parenting from both of you.
Thanks for sharing your wisdom and experience with us "younger kid" parents.

By Marite (Marite) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 09:36 pm: Edit

Northstarmom has terrific advice. I would add as well teaching kids a few things that parents may have overlooked before, such as handling one's own checking account, advice about the uses and abuses of credit cards. I even taught my older S to iron his clothes, though I don't know how often he has actually ironed anything.
We also used the last semester of high school talking about relationships and responsible behavior. Stringing out talks on serious topics throughout the semester rather than holding them in one concentrated burst takes away some of the anxiety-making intensity.

By Xiggi (Xiggi) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 09:41 pm: Edit

I even taught my older S to iron his clothes

What the heck? Are you telling me that colleges do not come with maid service? Is that information in the fine print?

By Marite (Marite) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 09:54 pm: Edit

Xiggi:

I know of a student whose parents paid for maid service for the whole four years! Another student could not be bothered to launder his clothes, let alone iron them. One night there was a fire alarm. The RA opened the guy's door and was assailed by the stench of unwashed clothes that had accumulated since the beginning of the year.

The value of summer camp lies in teaching kids to do their own laundry and make their own beds. The rest is just icing on the cake.

By Sac (Sac) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 10:11 pm: Edit

Marite,
My son proposed answering the Stanford prompt about writing a letter to your roomate by talking about how he would bring Glade to cover the smell of his dirty socks. He thought it was funny. I nixed it fast, imagining how much an adcom would like to think of someone around for four years who never washed his socks. Little did I know it might be true.

By Marite (Marite) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 10:38 pm: Edit

SAC:

LOL! Maybe you remember my post about my older S's self-description as "neat" and his prospective roommate's own self-description as "a neat freak." And yet, on our first visit to their room, we thought we were in a pigsty!

That's another thing to teach one's kids before college: picking up after themselves. I have not quite managed that yet with my younger S.

By Vadad (Vadad) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 10:40 pm: Edit

My D2's applying to Davidson; the "free" laundry would be a big draw for me, but girls have so much stuff with super-secret special washing guidelines, I don't think she'll use it much if she does get in. At least they have machines in the dorms that are also "free."

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 11:24 pm: Edit

That laundry service at Davidson is really quite something as I have never heard of that in a college before. Vadad, I love your use the the quotation marks in "free". It reminds me of while on the tour at Lehigh, the guide kept saying how the kids get use of "free" paper for all their copying needs.

Speaking of college laundry....I met my husband doing the laundry in my freshman dorm (he lived in an off campus apt. but came to do it in my dorm for old times sake as it was his freshman dorm)....I always tell people that was the LAST time I saw him do it!

I agree that summer programs such as camp in some ways prepare kids for the away from home college experience. I went away for ten summer prior to college so when I left at 18, it was not a brand new experience in that regard. My own kids have been going away every summer as well. I know Marite mentioned they get used to doing their laundry. That was not the case at my kids' summer camps. However, on my older one's last two summer travel programs, she did have to do it. I must say, like Marite's experience in her son's dorm room, my younger one's "dorm" room at her summer progam shared by five girls is so incredibly horrific that I can barely stand it on parent weekends. One cannot see the floor. She cannot find a thing. Thankfully the older one is the opposite so there is hope for one.

But messes aside, my kids have had the experience of some independence from parents, some responsibility that goes with that, plus being in programs where they did not know anyone on the first day (like the first day of college). While that is not why they attended overnight summer programs, it is a positive outcome now that college is in sight.

Susan

By Patient (Patient) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 11:30 pm: Edit

Northstar mom, thanks so much for the advice above. I had already been thinking about some of that but you added several points I hadn't thought about. I know that we have already begun implementing some changes, such as no curfew and so forth.

My son, although he has established appropriate enough emotional independence from us, is rather dependent on us for practical help and I often feel that I am a mother bird nudging her baby out of the nest. Ever since my son got his driver's license, I have gradually made him start doing the kinds of basic practical things that he will need to do on his own soon. The list includes getting to the doctor on his own; taking care of making haircut appointments, etc.; taking his car to the car wash and to get the oil changed; tipping after meals and haircuts and such; managing a credit card (Visabuxx has been great); eliminating curfew; buying groceries and drugstore items; taking suits/shirts to the dry cleaners.

He has learned to do his own laundry from traveling with his team to tournaments and also OCCASIONALLY washes his own clothes, but I have little hope that he will do those socks either. And wow about teaching ironing--very impressive!

By Over30 (Over30) on Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 12:18 am: Edit

Marite - I have also "taught" my kids to pick up after themselves, realize there are no clean socks, notice that the trashcan absolutely cannot hold one more piece of paper, etc. I fear, however, that the lesson was treated as an exam "cram" session - learned one day, forgotten the next. And that's great advice about having the relationship and behavior conversations. I know it probaby drives them crazy, but I do this when the opportunity presents itself. Hopefully they haven't tuned out as I suspect they would have with one big lecture. I also tell them autobiographical stories. It reminds me of the essay advice of showing, not telling. I find it's a great way to talk about making choices.

I agree about some of the collateral benefits of travel/summer programs. Washing clothes, hearing the alarm clock, managing money and not losing stuff are all critical life skills. A friend's son called home after the first week of a summer sports program and in response to his mom's question of "have you washed your sheets" said "oops, forgot to put them on the bed." I guess it saves wear & tear on the linens.

Moms of boys - I only buy clothes for the boys that advertise "absolutely no ironing needed."

By Upandover (Upandover) on Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 12:44 am: Edit

lol. I thought the title of this thread was funny.

By May_1 (May_1) on Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 02:05 am: Edit

Oddly enough my mother taught me how to clean everything, iron, and wash clothes in 2 days... that immediately followed my 12th birthday. In addition she showed me how to follow recipes (I won't dare say cook), but I have yet to prepare a meal. As for all else...well, she hasn't washed, ironed, or cleaned up specifically after me for almost 5 years. It's good deal...for her.

By Kissy (Kissy) on Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 07:52 am: Edit

When I first met my H, he was at the mercy of restaurants and the laundry service for food and clean clothing. He didn't have a clue (or maybe the inclination) how to do for himself. So, I've tried to make sure our kids are a little more self-sufficient.

Something we've been doing for years now is "kids' dinner." Once a week, one of the kids plans, shops for, and prepares dinner, meeting the basic nutritional criteria. We've had our share of creative concoctions served over the years, but we always look forward to dinner on these nights. It's amazing how good the kids have actually become in planning, preparation, and presentation!

By Marite (Marite) on Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 08:23 am: Edit

May 1:

I hope you get around to putting theory into practice regarding cooking.

I recall an advanced graduate student in nuclear physics having her apartment for the first time in her life. She did not know how to cook, so my husband said: "Well, at least you can boil some eggs, can't you?" Actually, she did not know how to boil eggs, neither did she know how to find out when water had boiled. She somehow survived and is now a highly regarded physicist. But it must have been a very rocky first year.

By Lizschup (Lizschup) on Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 09:44 am: Edit

I was surprised to learn about laundry service at college also. Wash U's student run service is appropriately named WASH U. Needless to say we aren't paying for that service.

I agree with advice about relaxing rules the summer before college but there's nothing wrong with asking them when they will be home or agreeing on an appropriate time. Otherwise if you're like me you'll lose sleep wondering whether they've made it home safely.

I am amazed how much easier it is to relax the rules once they've actually gone away to school and come back. The things I worried about 9 months ago or even 4 months ago, I no longer worry about. Maybe because he's survived so far and actually thriving. I'm finally breathing a sigh of relief after a long process of letting go. We found senior year to be an absolute roller coaster. I miss all the plays and concerts but I am happy to have some balance again even if life is a little less exciting.

By Massdad (Massdad) on Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 09:51 am: Edit

Marite,

I don't know. I grew up like many guys with no training in cooking. As an undergrad, the dorm cafeteria solved the problem. In the army, the mess hall was not far away. Grad school? Well, as a scientist in training, cooking became another series of experiments, without the controls that go into good experiments, of course.

My first discovery was how tolerant our taste buds are to a wide range of combinations and results, especially when driven by hunger. Next I discovered that cooking is a very tolerant, forgiving process, with a huge range between undercooked and overcooked or burned. I learned that it was not hard to identify burned food and start over. I learned why you do not overwork a pie crust. I needed a power saw to cut my first few attempts. I finally realized recipies are guidelines, not commands.

Even to this day, my spouse and I share cooking responsibilities and make most things from scratch. We found convenience foods (which are most packaged or frozen entrees) are not very big on convenience, and even shorter on taste and health. So, most of what is in our freezer is stuff we've made in big batches and frozen.

Probably the best compliment I ever received was at my D's birthday two or three years ago. I've been making home made cake (yes, from scratch - mixes don't really even save any time) with real butter cream frosting for years. Some of the kids at the party had never tasted a home made cake before, and kept having more. They even told my D they had never even liked cake before.

And, the experimenting continues.

By Marite (Marite) on Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 10:54 am: Edit

Massdad:

My hubby was there before me and taught me how to cook, after he himself learned how to cook so that he could survive being on his own in the summer (no dorm, no cafeteria). We share some of the cooking though I've never been ambitious (I've never made a cake in my life--too messy). I just wanted to advise May 1 to put her recipes into practice. Otherwise, it's like learning to drive without ever getting behind a wheel. You find that recipe books don't tell you how to figure out when water has boiled or when an egg is done (at least to your taste).

A friend of mine who majored in biology was told that she treated cooking like a biology experiment and biology lab as a cooking class.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 01:40 pm: Edit

There is the old story of the mom who would always yell at her son, "Pick up your room. I'm not the maid." When he went off to college, there was maid service in the common areas where he often just left his stuff. He came in one day to find the maid very frustrated. She said to him,"Pick up the room. I'm not your mother."

By Mom60 (Mom60) on Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 02:09 pm: Edit

My son goes to a school that does lots of outdoor trips throughout the year. They have a packing list that for the first few years I stuck to. The last year or so I have let my son pack for himself. I still try to get him to follow the list somewhat but the truth of the matter is that wears the same thing almost everyday and most of the stuff comes home clean in the zip lock bags that I packed them in.
I have started to have them at least sort there laundry by color. I had to laugh when his friends father came over and saw the piles and told son now he just puts everything in together.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 02:21 pm: Edit

Jamimom...that is a great one!

By May_1 (May_1) on Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 08:32 pm: Edit

Marite,

I probably should amend that to say I haven't yet prepared a meal alone. I can definitely identify with your friend, as I find it much simpler to view a recipe much as I would a protocol for any of my experiments. And I'm a "he"; the screenname has less to do with my actual name than with that all-important date coming in a few months.

By Marite (Marite) on Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 08:35 pm: Edit

May 1:

Thanks for the amendment! And good luck on May 1st.

By Bobmcc (Bobmcc) on Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 08:37 pm: Edit

my mom maintained that her undergrad degree in in chemistry was the key to her later excellence in cooking.

By Momstheword (Momstheword) on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 12:02 pm: Edit

LOL re: the cooking/chem connection. My mom was a science teacher and when I'd whine that I *couldn't* cook, she'd always say brusquely, "Nonsense. If you can perform a chem experiment, you can cook." That always ended that discussion.

By Marite (Marite) on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 12:06 pm: Edit

My friend the biology major claimed that her knife-wielding skills in the kitchen were associated with her skills at dissection in the lab, but could not say which came first.

By Anotherdad (Anotherdad) on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 12:46 pm: Edit

1. Verify that all applications were complete.
2. Don't bother the adcom unless something major happens.
3. Start all the financial aid application forms now!!. Really painful to do. In most cases, this falls entirely on the parents.
4. Gentle reminders to keep the grades up. This is due to the dreaded waiting list. Sometimes, information on the Spring quarters will make a difference in acceptance from the WL.
5. If convenient, and you haven't gone already, visit some of the schools. Knowing something about the physical setting and school atmospheres will make decision making much easier. If it can't be done prior to April, begin planning a trip to the accepted schools in early April.
5. Finally, allow the kid to enjoy life. The period until the letters come in April will be excruciating and the kids need all the parental love and support, and diversions they can get.
Incidently, it was only after her first semester at college, when she returned home with good grades, did younger DD feel the pressure lift that had been there all through HS, college application, and entering college. She is a much happier person now that she is past all the uncertainties you are facing now. Hang in there -- you and the kid will make it through.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 01:06 pm: Edit

LOL, Jamimom.

I haven't had the nerve to mention "keeping grades up" to D. She's working hard, the apps are out...I cross fingers that her "B" in Calc BC doesn't drop, she loves the class but it's very hard...everything else should be fine.

By Chinaman (Chinaman) on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 01:38 pm: Edit

Please let the kid learn to clean their room. It should be a mandatory for kids who are or in past were slobs. When I visited my kid's dorm, I have to struggle to see where to keep my foott down on the floor. The scene was common to all the kids who reside on his floor.

While cleaning his room, I found some food which was lying there from last two months. I asked him "Why did not you thorw it out". He told me that he did not know about the food.

In winter vacation, we went through an intensive traing for room cleaning. Hopefully, when he finds a girl friend, she will influence him to be a clean person.

Boy I am glad that my wife influenced me in a postive manner to change my habits, otherwise in my college days, my room was not clean at all.

By Bobmcc (Bobmcc) on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 03:27 pm: Edit

don't count on girlfriends to instill neatness; perhaps an slight upgrade in "cleanliness" though.

But what anotherdad says..our son's a lot happier off in college than he was in hs.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 04:48 pm: Edit

Amen about the girls...I can track where my D has been by the trail of discarded shoes, sweatshirts, etc. And where she does her homework there are ordinarily stacks of books and papers on the floor surrounding her chair, more stacks crammed on over-stuffed bookcases (not to be confused with over-stuffed chairs or over-stuffed people)...aiyee!

However, the trait I have the most concern about when she heads off to college is...time management. She's worked it well enough for hs but I've never seen her kick it into what I would call high gear.

By Marite (Marite) on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 05:00 pm: Edit

I think that to "I'm not the maid" and "I'm not your mom" we should add: "I'm not your girlfriend" or "I'm not your wife."

By Marite (Marite) on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 05:08 pm: Edit

Thedad:

Time management is indeed a big concern. I've had talks about my two S's about this for some time. In high school, both the schedule and the teachers provide structure. There are homeworks, tests, quizzes, papers due regularly; these force students to keep to a schedule. There are as well regular signposts about performance. In college, there are only mid-terms, papers and finals, and no one to prod students to do the reading regularly, no one really to check on attendance in class. By the time a student realize that s/he is in trouble, it may be difficult to turn things around.

Because there are only four courses per semester, as opposed to seven, and because classes do not meet as often as high school classes, it is easy for students to waste time. They sleep late, go (or not) to class around middday, spend the afternoon socializing and perhaps hit the books for a couple of hours in the evening (if they are not watching TV). And bingo, the midterm comes, and they fail or don't do well.

It is important for parents to remind their students to cultivate good study habits and time management skills.

By Anxiousmom (Anxiousmom) on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 07:07 pm: Edit

Is "I've been named a National Merit Finalist" worth mentioning to adcoms, if this is indeed the case in February? I would think they would be notified automatically by College "take-my-money" Board, but it might not be the case.... So should DD notify adcoms in February if named NMF? God, I can't wait until this is all over!!!!!!

By Marite (Marite) on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 08:05 pm: Edit

I think it's worth mentioning. Don't count on CB to do it. There's always the possibility of a slipup. And it's a nice way to keep in touch.

Congrats to your D, by the way.

By Chinaman (Chinaman) on Friday, January 09, 2004 - 01:15 pm: Edit

This is a typical culture difference. When I said that girl friend will influence him in cleaning, I did not mean that she will clean. In Chinese culture (or any culture) marriage is a partnership. There is a saying that your spouse (I am extending it to GF) makes you a better person. When mom or dad is not there to clean, and wife says you have to clean then it is no option. And a wise person will not fight but use his energy for a positive use.

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Friday, January 09, 2004 - 01:19 pm: Edit

Chinaman,
Thanks for explaining how marriage works in c=Chinese culture. I always enjoy hearing about other cultures' best practices. Your contribution was yet another example of the value of diversity.

By Marite (Marite) on Friday, January 09, 2004 - 01:22 pm: Edit

Chinaman:

I understand your reasoning. Alas, my nieces are as much slobs as my sons! While they may look neater than my S (being more concerned about their appearances), their rooms, when they visit, have the same tornado-struck look as my sons' rooms.

By Mom2003 (Mom2003) on Friday, January 09, 2004 - 01:40 pm: Edit

In defense of all slobs....

I used to be a total slob as a teenager. It had a more to do with family dynamics than my inability to clean/lack of knowledge of organizing techniques. Once I left home, I figured out that if I wanted clean clothes, I had to do laundray and if the floor was moderately clean, my nice sweater was less likely to get messy when I dumped it on floor. Putting away clothes was necessary if I wanted to find instructions for that history paper that was due yesterday. Law of natural consequences works... even on slobs (my children have been known to accuse me of being a neat freak now!) So I propose to leave my slob son alone and enjoy these last few months! I think we have all raised fabulous children who are all going to do well in their lives and whatever we have failed to teach them in their 18 years on this earth, we are not going to teach them in a few short months.

Gosh, it is hard to realize they will be gone in a few months.

By Marite (Marite) on Friday, January 09, 2004 - 01:52 pm: Edit

Mom2003:

You are right. I was no neat freak as a teenager, either. It's been a long process. So far, college does not seem to have a noticeable effect on my older S as far as neatness is concerned. Only recently did I get around to telling him that there is no reason for him to bring home his dirty laundry, including bedsheets and towels, every time he is on vacation. He'll be graduating soon.