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Now that it's 2004, parents of juniors will begin their year of hell, starting with the SAT January 24. I realize some juniors have already taken standardized tests, but this is the year everyone will take the SAT, maybe multiple times.

Why do I call it a year of hell? After following CC for the last few months, I see that too much knowledge may not be a good thing! As I read the posts on the forums, I read more tidbits of info to print and file about essay-writing, early decision, test-taking, guidance counselor recommendations....for an obsessive compulsive like me, the college application process can consume your thoughts-- or at least hum at a low level in the background.

"Anything new or interesting on College Confidential?" asks my son when he comes home from school. I guess I'm the research assistant.
He hasn't registered yet, but he knows my user name and has read some of my posts.

He's taking the SAT 1/24 and 3/27 and SATII's on 5/1, with an ACT on 4/3. He's planning on ED to Columbia hence the early tests. The two of us will do a road tour next summer to the east coast, hitting Boston, NY, Baltimore, and DC, with maybe a side trip to Chicago and the Art Institute.

By Kissy (Kissy) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 10:54 am: Edit

I'm not a parent of a junior, but I do have two more coming down the pike. Being that they're as different from one another as can be, I imagine that the college search and selection process will be uniquely different for each child. I also see it as an on-going learning process for myself. Good luck to your S on his exams. He's wise to be taking them now and fortunate to have an involved parent like you.

By Emilyp114 (Emilyp114) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 11:14 am: Edit

It's a shame that you see it as a year of hell when it's only just beginning. I found the end of my junior year and the beginning of my senior year one of excitement and anticipation. The trips to visit the final list of schools were a lot of fun, and good memories for me and for my parents, I think. I'm kind of curious why your son is already registered to do the SAT's twice. Why not wait and see how he does first?

By Dadx (Dadx) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 11:17 am: Edit

If you are well prepared for the SAT I, go ahead and take it as you have scheduled. I believe Ziggi made the point that no one should take the real tests for practice because you can do that with the review books.

S took the SAT I in May, IIs in June. I again in October.

Is came in below PSAT scores, so I felt he could improve and we targeted school visits assuming improvement. (this was confirmed by his math and physics IIs in May). In October sitting, he came up 150 points and moved from high 1300s to low 1500s. Makes a difference in where you aim your visits. Make sure that you prepare well for any AP tests in May. This was the part of the process that was truly news to me, and I was very surprised to learn what % of applicants at top schools had already taken AP scores to submit.(Dont sign up to submit these ahead of time. They arent required, and if you underacheive it will hurt you to reveal them.)

Taking the ACT is a smart thing, I believe, since it offers unrestricted score choice and some schools will accept it instead of all of the others.

By Blossom (Blossom) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 11:18 am: Edit

From one obsessive /compulsive to another-- I would cancel the March SAT date-- it's overkill. If he does well in January you can sit back and relax; if he thinks he can do better, not much chance for improvement between January and March, especially on the verbal (our kids didn't do test prep, but did make an effort to read the NYTimes every day and the Wall Street Journal at least once a week-- great for vocab, sentence structure, reading comprehension of unfamiliar material, etc.)
You might want to take a break from these boards until you're planning your road trip-- more angst than help, in my opinion. Believe it or not, he will get in to college, and the early anxiety isn't all that helpful.
If I could do it all over again, I would not have started obsessing as early as I did. When number 1 child left in August for his first choice school it was bittersweet-- so much time spent on anxiety producing college stuff, and not enough time spent walking through the woods hearing him talk about whatever. Learn from my mistake!!!! I'm trying to w/number 2!

By Kissy (Kissy) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 11:43 am: Edit

I think Kinshasa's "year of hell" comment was made tongue-in-cheek, Emilyp. I'm sure she's looking forward to the process as your parents did, too. Like many of us parents new to college admissions in the 21st century, the process has changed dramatically since our HS days. It can be overwhelming and I think arming oneself with knowledge about the process is a good thing. It's *assimilating* it all that's so darn hard!

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 11:44 am: Edit

I have thought that preparing my kids for adulthood, including college, has been one of the most exciting, enjoyable times in my life. It has been wonderful to be a partner in my almost adult kids' journey toward adulthood.

Junior year is an especially wonderful time because I enjoyed helping my kids define better their ideas of what they wanted to do after leaving home, and understand better how their interests and talents match with various opportunities in the real world.

I never saw us as adversities in this process, but I saw myself as a partner in it with them, being excited as I learned new things about what ideas and pursuits made my sons' eyes light up.

I think that it's important to put the emphasis on finding the right opportunity for one's kids, not finding the opportunity that will most impress others.

If a kid isn't a good test taker, it can be a joy to find a post h.s. option where one's beloved offspring will be appreciated for their own talents, and where they will get a good chance to develop their talents and delve into their areas of interests.

Instead of bemoaning the paths that may be closed to one's child, it's nice to discover the paths that are very open to your child, and where your child would be fulfilled and happy.

It's also important to recognize that determining what your child isn't particularly good at or doesn't like is as important as determining their areas of strength and interest.

If you visit a college and your kid hates that place, that's very useful information to have because it gives both of you a better idea of what type of person your child is and what situations s/he will best flourish in. You haven't wasted your time and money or been a bad parent if you've taken your child to visit a college that your child finds unappealing.

By Kinshasa (Kinshasa) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 11:47 am: Edit

I too thought the March date was overkill. We can always move the date to a later test. He is not doing a prep class. In fact, he is barely preparing for the SAT. His PSAT was good but not NM score. Actually my son is more relaxed about SAT than I am.

Reality is that he is setting his sights on some crapshoot colleges but based on his rigorous course load and GPA he will surely be accepted at colleges below that tier.

Yes, every kid is different. My daughter had 1020 SAT, was accepted and loves Evergreen State, didn't even write the optional essay on the application.

This is kid #4 to graduate HS. My #1 barely got through HS, #2 is bipolar and struggling, #3 is at Evergreen. This is the first time I've taken the competitive college admissions journey.

By Kinshasa (Kinshasa) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 11:59 am: Edit

Northstarmom, I agree totally. My son has absolutely no interest in pursuing medicine like his father and we wouldn't want him to. He has a great sense of who he is and what he wants to pursue. Definitely a humanities bent with intense interest in history, art history, foreign cultures. He knows he wants a large city far from California and ideally, a core curriculum. The parameters are large enough for him to consider many schools with varying degrees of selectivity.

And yes, the "year of hell" comment was tongue in cheek!

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 12:16 pm: Edit

Kinshasa,
For you, it was tongue in cheek. Unfortunately, many parents view the college app time as a year of hell, and what could be a very fulfilling bonding time for them and their kids becomes a very unpleasant time of stress and struggle.

By Mom60 (Mom60) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 12:26 pm: Edit

Kinshasa- I know the feeling. Since I have a girl I also deal with the emotional rollercoaster of a 16 year old female. One day she is on the top of the world and the next she is sure she is destined for a UC. (which I would be happy with)
Forget even next day sometimes hour to hour. This will also probably be our only one to go through this. S is a 9th grader who has some learning issues and ADD and does not enjoy school who has already told us he is going to city college. And the youngest is still in elementary school.
We stress with her that she doesn't need to know where she wants to go in life. That the important thing is to keep her options open.
and the best way to do that is to keep up the grades and continue to take the most rigorous program her school offers.
I agree that reading this forum is addicting but so informative.

By Mstee (Mstee) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 12:30 pm: Edit

Kinshasha, I can relate--my first born kept us in suspense as to whether or not he would graduate highschool because he flunked health and safety senior year--a required course. Sort of an odd thing. The course is required for high school graduation, but none of the colleges care about it. He did graduate, though, and was accepted to a couple of fine, but not highly selective, schools. He ended up going to community college for a couple of years. My second born sort of "woke up" jr. year and is interested in the selective schools and applying to a couple. He may have waited a bit too long to get serious about school, though. But I know that he will get into some good schools, although most likely not his top choices. Anyway, I didn't feel too much pressure with him, because the top schools weren't even on the radar until just recently, and because of his grades, my hopes aren't sky high, though he is taking a shot. But the third child, a freshman in high school, is a good student, could get the high grades, is a BRWK, etc., so of my kids so far, this one could realistically be on the Stanford/Tufts/UCLA etc. path, if she doesn't get off track. So, strangely enough, I feel more pressure with her. Probably because I know too much now about how competitive everything is. Ignorance is bliss. . .But then again, when the time comes to actually go off to college, she may be best off at a small LAC. Just would like to keep all options open.

And my mom is bipolar. So I keep watching my kids, knowing that this syndrome often shows up late teens, early twenties--about the time when they leave home. It is fear that I have for my children, that is always in the back of my mind.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 12:35 pm: Edit

While I have been participating on these boards as a parent of a current senior, I also have a sophmore so will staying on to go through it all again. While we have not discussed this barely at all and I am truly not in favor of it, my soph wants to graduate a year early (I know she would be able to as far as coursework) and IF IF IF we were to go that route, that would make me basically in your boat with someone applying next fall (I cannot imagine!!) so here I am too.

I actually think Kinshasa has a good plan though I realize different things work for different people. But you are doing it a little like we did. We began looking into college at the start of junior year. I started reading here then as well. We felt it was important to get testing out of the way by the end of junior year, as well as all the college visits. Everyone said that fall of senior year would be busy enough and they were right. The thought was that IF she should decide to apply early anywhere (and she did and your son seems to be on that plan), she really would have had to explore colleges and done some testing junior year. So, we did all of it junior year and then felt that if she wanted to retake any tests she could fall back on that in Oct. of senior year and also go for a second/overnight visit to her first choices then too. She took some SAT2s in fall of junior year if I recall. Then she took the SAT1s in April and again in May of junior year. Then the rest of the SAT2s in June of junior year. That left Oct. if she wanted to redo any and she did for two SAT2s then. I know her taking the SAT1s two months in a row is not what others are saying. But she took a practice in fall of junior year at home and then did some more. She took the first real one in April, went up 100 points from the practice the previous fall and then took the second real one a month later in May and went up another 100 points so I guess this worked out for her. She got over her goal and then said she was stopping cause she does not care about going higher and higher as long as she was over a certain mark needed for schools she is considering.

She narrowed down the college list in fall of junior year and we mapped out all the visits for the year as it was tricky with her schedule. So, we did differ from you in that we did not visit schools on one long trip and did not do them in the summer. She goes away in summer plus we preferred visiting when school was in session. Each school was a pretty extensive visit with at least one full day on campus and in some cases overnight. We never saw more than one or two schools on one trip. One trip had three, that's it.

I think your plan will work since your son is looking to apply early and as you can see the fall of senior year is very full just with the application process.

Now, with my younger one, I am not sure what will be. Supposedly we would start this whole process over next fall. If she were to graduate early, however, we should be looking at colleges NOW, which I have not done, plus it is all I can do to deal with one college process at a time. In my second daughter's case ,however, it will be a different list of schools. She is also at the top of her class and excels academically like the first one but plans to pursue musical theater which involves different schools. The best programs for that field are not the same as some other list of selective colleges. The admit rate for these programs is even worse than elite admissions. Plus besides the grades and test scores and so forth, there is the entire audition process as well. I know which schools these are so it is not like starting from scratch as much. But even so, we have not begun to look into it nor dealt with the issue of graduating early. But that daughter is asking to take SATs this year in case. It is weird cause the SAT is changing for what is supposed to be HER year next year. So, if she takes them now and does not graduate early, I am sure she will have to retake the new version for her right year. She cannot take the Jan. test your son is taking cause she has plans to travel to NJ for a summer friend's sweet sixteen (something we do not have in our neck of the woods). So, she is asking to take the SAT in March and then maybe SAT2s in May/June. I guess I will see. She was to have taken the PSATs this past Oct. (our school recommends taking them in tenth I guess as practice and other kid did too) but at the last minute, my kids had to rush to Phila. cause of my dad who was dying and so she missed the test (which was not so terrible as it did not count I guess). I was asking her to take one practice test in the booklet to get used to it (she balked at the idea as she had taken the SATS in seventh and eighth grade for JHU CTY). But she did do one verbal practice in the booklet and got 720 so I guess that gives me some clue though she kept rushing to do it cause felt no need. Never did the math practice one cause then she left town unexpectedly and knew she was not taking the PSAT afterall. But she excels in math so I guess this part should work. The issues are bigger about the graduating early stuff, not the testing for us.

Anyway, I will still be here on the next round!
Susan

By Momoffour (Momoffour) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 03:48 pm: Edit

I have a junior who I mentioned in another thread does not like her physics class. She told me that when a pencil drops off a table she really doesn't care what the angle is when it falls! She would rather be a fashion buyer for Macy's in NYC someday. We have gone back and forth on dropping the class after the semester end or sticking it out and what ramifications that would have for admission. Today I called two colleges (Wake Forest and Georgetown) and asked to speak to an adcom and was put right through. WFU said that dropping the class and replacing with an equal level class would be fine with them. GU said it might raise an eyebrow depending on the adcom reading the app, but also like the WFU person said, if an equally difficult class was picked up and the rest of the classes were difficult they wouldn't care too much unless there was a pattern of dropped classes. I asked the WFU person should it be discussed in one of the essays and she said absolutely do not discuss a negative situation in an essay because it would draw attention to a matter that they might not think twice about. Both women were very friendly and open and didn't seem to think it was odd that I was calling and asking advice.

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 04:54 pm: Edit

Momof4,
If she wants to be a fashion buyer, why is she bothering to take physics anyway?

Even in my S's IB program,which is very select, only the very hardcore science students take physics. My thoughts are that physics probably is essential for students planning on majoring in math or the sciences in college, but for other students, it certainly isn't necessary.

Even the most select colleges don't expect students to take every single tough course that's in their school. They don't want to see students load up on lightweight classes, but if a student interested in a fashion design career takes an honors art course or starts an additional foreign language or honors literature course instead of a 4th h.s. science course, I'd think the student could still be in contention for a top school.

By Mom60 (Mom60) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 05:31 pm: Edit

Momof4- physics was my only D I ever received in college.
My d is not taking Physics. At her school the majority take Physics as a freshman. She attended a different school for 9th grade where the freshman took Bio. When she transfered she signed up for Honors Chem like all the other sophomores. Now this year when the Jrs are all taking reg Bio she will take AP Bio. She is adament that she will not take Physics as a senior with a class full of freshman. She will have 3 years of science and hopefully it will be enough.
Oddly enough my son who hates school is taking Physics and is actually liking it and doing quite well. Maybe just different types of thinkers.

By Digmedia (Digmedia) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 05:32 pm: Edit

Thanks for starting this thread. I too have a junior, and one regret I have about participating on CC is that many of the people I've been communicating with (via the discussions) will be gone come September. I'm very glad to hear that Soozie will be around, but I really wish others (too many to name) would not go....

But this will be a good way to get to know the next crop of parents.

By Emeraldkity4 (Emeraldkity4) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 05:49 pm: Edit

My daughters prep school taught science in a different rotation.
Physics was first in 9th grade , then chem, bio then electives, she took more bio, genetics & marine.


She still hasn't taken physics in college but she will have to next year I think.

She found geometry to be much easier than algebra( in high school), and while she did ok in regular chemistry(college), she understands organic chem better even though it is much more difficul of a class.
I don't know about physics. She had a great teacher, and she got an A, but it was more conceptual than lab oriented I think. She also had an easier time in 9th grade than later, too much social emotional stuff to handle let alone schoolwork!

By Marite (Marite) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 06:17 pm: Edit

Many schools are switching from the old bio, chem, phys sequence to Physics, chem then bio. In 9th grade, there is a course called Physics First, which is very light on math. The old Honors Physics (11th grade) and AP-Physics by contrast are very math-dependent. My math-loving found AP-Physic a breeze, but has to work in biology, because more memorization is involved.

By Emeraldkity4 (Emeraldkity4) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 06:31 pm: Edit

I am planning on staying on the board, while I was on "AOHell" while going through the admission process with my older daughter, I find the CC parents to be much more thoughtful ( and I dont have AOl anymore anyway)
I did appreciate one of their former advisors, Bruce Hammond who has edited and written his own college reference guides including Fiske however.
His support helped me through the process when parents of her classmates were hiring advisors. WIth the help of guides from the bookstore and the library I did it all myself! ( almost)
my younger daughter will also be entering high school this fall, which will be a totally different scenario than her sister.
Sister attended private prep school very small class, conventionally gifted with some learning differences.
Her graduating class size was only 18 and her average class size was about 15.
Younger sis is looking at an inner city public high school where the classes are about 32 and the school size is 1600.
She is great at science but unfortunately her math isn't up to it ( she definitely has dyscalcula) so she is stuck going over the same material.
It helps me to hear other parents discuss their kids, and the kids to discuss where they are at. So I look forward to hearing others stories!

By Marite (Marite) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 07:22 pm: Edit

Emeraldkity:

Do you know about ldonline.org? It has resources for kids with dyscalculia.

By Kinshasa (Kinshasa) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 07:22 pm: Edit

Sort of off topic, but relating to REALLY difficult kids -- two of my kids went to wilderness programs in Idaho and graduated therapeutic emotional growth boarding schools.
I'm happy to be a resource for anyone who needs this information.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 08:40 pm: Edit

The science sequence is a little different in our school. I notice from knowing kids in other parts of the country that their schools offer acceleration basically in science where the highest level tracked kids can take Bio as a freshman, chem soph year, etc. While there is acceleration in math here, there is not in science. We have levels of classes like Honors but nobody can take Bio as a freshman.

When my oldest was a freshman there were two Honors level science courses (besides regular track courses). Those were honors earth/space science and honors physics but the physics was a freshman level physics, not the AP Physics that seniors would take. My daughter took the Physics Honors freshman class. She exceled at it but frankly it was way too difficult for those in the class and these were the top students in the freshman class in the first place. It really requires a certain level of math. My daughter was more accelerated in math than even the top kids who were in Geometry as she had skipped ahead and was up to Alg 2/Trig at that point. She could handle it. Since then, our school has dropped that course. Now, for the honors level freshman classes, the only option is Honors Earth/Space Science, which my younger one took last year with the same teacher who taught that honors physics course my older one had had. I already have mentioned elsewhere that this was a really bad experience for my daughter with this teacher and she switched out into nonHonors Earth space science right before midterms just to not be with the teacher for the rest of the year, though she is back in honors levels of science now and doing great. In tenth the hardest level class is Biology Investigations Honors which my younger one is in now and the other one took. Junior year the hardest class is Honors Chemistry. Then the hardest class senior year is Physics which just became AP this year. My daughter is in that with the same teacher she had for freshman physics (the one that we can never have the younger one have again). But this course is very difficult even for the best students. Last year, many of the top/cream of the senior class were getting poor grades in the class. It really involves problems that need math at a high level and labs too. My senior again is doing well but this is her forte plus is in her second year of Calculus which is not the norm so it is working for her. But some really good students have dropped the class. I am not sure what my younger one will take for science senior year as she belongs in the hardest classes but just cannot have this physics AP guy. I think there is an second year Bio course though and actually she does not plan to go into the sciences at all.

That is the system we have for science.
Susan

By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 09:19 pm: Edit

It helps me to hear other parents discuss their kids, and the kids to discuss where they are at. So I look forward to hearing others stories!
>>

Emerald - I agree. This is a great resource for parents to share wisdom and experience. I've learned so much (and not just about college).

My daughter's high school's science program is weak, in my opinion. Kids who test in are placed in bio in 9th grade, then AP Bio or Honors Anatomy in 10th, Honors Chem in 11th and AP Physics in 12.

"Normal" kids like my daughter end up taking a one semester "introduction to lab science" class in 9th grade (a total waste, in my opinion), bio in 10th, chem in 11th, and either regular physics or AP Enviro Sci. in 12th. They can accelerate if they take bio or chem in summer school. My daughter, however, opted to take bio last summer and then art this year (only way she could fit it in her schedule because of required religion classes) and is now talking about doing chem next summer and taking another year of art. I don't know if she'll be too keen on physics in 12th. I know in my heart that this schedule isn't the best for college admissions but I also know how important those art classes are to her so we'll see how it all pans out.

But, I'm prepping my son for the entrance exam this month so when he starts next year he'll hopefully get placed in the honors science track.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 09:27 pm: Edit

Our honors science classes also make scheduling hard on these kids cause they must block out a double block equivalent to two class periods for science. Regular track science classes are one period long and no labs. For kids who take the hardest classes, including these double period science ones, and are in the music program, (and take foreign languages) that about fills up one's day making it very hard to take any other sorts of electives, some that are even required for graduation.

Susan

By Kinshasa (Kinshasa) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 09:42 pm: Edit

Carolyn --

I think you said once before your daughter attends a Catholic HS, as does my son, and it's difficult to fit the solids in with the required religion courses. I agree that the one semester 9th grade general science course is a waste of time. At my son's school, freshmen take either that course or Pre-AP Bio (one semester) which is offered to about 50 students. Then those students take AP Bio in sophomore year if they want to. My son took the Pre-AP Bio but opted for regular biology sophomore year because he was playing football, wasn't planning on going into the sciences, and the honors English class was more important to him. He took beginning chemistry at the junior college last summer to free a period so he could take AP Art History.

Regarding physics, if he doesn't take physics during senior year, he will have only 2-1/12 years of science, and I don't think selective colleges look kindly on less than 3 years of science. His senior year schedule will include honors physics.

If he doesn't take the one semester Christian Service course this summer, he will have no room for AP Calculus next year because the school requires two theology electives.

In regard to taking courses at junior colleges, how do other states and schools handle this? After everything was approved at his school's end by the chemistry dept. and guidance counselor, the junior college was hesitant to approve it, saying if that particular course was available at his school, and he took it at a JC, the JC could lose funding. Maybe it's just California that scrutinizes everything. I was holding my breath until a kindly adviser signed off.

By Marite (Marite) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 09:42 pm: Edit

Carolyn:

I just talked this afternoon with a young man who graduated from Vassar and hopes to go on for a Ph.D. in history. He happily told me that he did not have to take math or science courses in college. Another young man I know who is very good at writing but very poor at math deliberately sought out colleges that had no math requirement. He was accepted by his first choice, USC, where he is a very very happy first semester freshman. Something to keep in mind.

By Mike (Mike) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 11:22 pm: Edit

Physics as a Freshman? How do they do that? At Mike's school Calculus is very helpful in Physics. In his school the order is General Physical Science, Biology, Chemistry, Physics.

Mike's Dad

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 11:28 pm: Edit

Mike's dad....that is what we thought about the freshman physics class. It really requires higher level math skills. While my daughter succeeded, she had accelerated in math but the other kids had such difficulty. That is why they finally dropped the freshman honors physics class. Even the senior year AP Physics class is difficult for kids who do not have higher level math skills. My daughter says she often figures out the problems using her Calculus skills (she accelerated in math and so did calculus as a junior which is not done here) and that others solve the physics problems using other methodologies.

Susan

By Emeraldkity4 (Emeraldkity4) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 11:42 pm: Edit

It looks like my (older)daughters high school changed the way they teach science.
9th grade science is now a intro to lab science class ( that actually sounds similar to public school )
She sure didn't have calculus, she didn't even take that till college!
\
Introduction to Lab Science

This project-based class provides students with laboratory science skills and core content that serves as a foundation for future science courses in biological and physical sciences. Each unit begins with teacher-instructed experimentation and gradually moves toward studentÐgenerated experimentation. Students learn to use laptop computers to collect and process data and present results. Concepts covered include measurement, biochemistry, physical and chemical properties, ecological systems, sound, and basic mechanics. (3 trimesters)

And this is the description of the 9th grade science class in the public school
INTRO TO SCIENTIFIC ANALYSIS I, II
Credits: 0.5 credit/semester
Grade(s): 9
Length of Course: Two Semesters
Prerequisite: None
Graduation Requirement Satisfied: Science
* NCAA Initial Clearinghouse Approval Pending
Course is an introductory course to many areas of science, from the physics of electricity to the biochemistry of human hormones. Skills emphasized include graphing, organization, and experimental design that will help in future classes. The course is designed to be Òhands on:Ó so there will be many labs that require careful attention to safety. After successful completion of this class, students will be prepared to choose Genetics, Ecology, or Marine Science in his/her sophomore year.

By Blossom (Blossom) on Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 09:52 am: Edit

Mom of Four-- re: your daughter and physics, try to encourage her to keep her options open and don't sell her short. Ironically, I spent time as a fashion buyer at Macy's early in my career-- and no, physics is not required for that-- but I grew up in an age and place where girls were not encouraged to develop their math and science skills unless it was obvious that they were exceptional. I was not-- never took physics, never progressed beyond basic high school math-- and I regret it now in middle age. There are so many opportunities open to people with basic science literacy that are closed to people who struggled to pass Trig, like me. A former classmate of mine is a well-known journalist whose beat is technology-- she was no scientist, but she slogged through a few college level courses in math and physics, and as she puts it-- can fake her way through an interview at NASA or Boeing.
Net-- nobody knows at age 16 or 17 what opportunities will come their way-- or what they're closing off-- and so unless the teacher demands that she drop the class, I'd urge her to stick with it. Best case-- the light may dawn at some point in the year, and she may actually enjoy what she's learning. Worst case-- she won't look back and regret not having tested herself.
Incidentally, the child of friends of ours was accepted to Princeton, and wrote an essay on getting C's in physics and why he refused to drop the class, despite the "hit" to his GPA. Funny essay-- showed a lot more character than the typical "I am an overachiever and must excel in everything" story.

By Mom60 (Mom60) on Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 11:50 am: Edit

Our public school the usual sequence for the regular college prep is non-math physics,chem,bio.
the most rigorous curriculum is math based physics(this class has a math preq), honors chem, bio and then any AP science of your choice. These are what the school puts out as their sequence. There is also a physical and life science class for those whose goal is to just finish high school. I have noticed that parents who have older siblings who have been through this before tend to push the counselor for the sequence of Bio, Honors Chem, AP Physics and the another AP science senior year. Physics is the only science at our school that you can take the AP without having taken the regular class first.
Many of the driven kids also take Chem or Bio at the city college during the summer so they can take AP during the school year. That way they can take all the AP's. Our school also only allows you to take 1 science class per year.

Regarding schools with no math requirement. My friend has just returned to the Jr college to become a RN. She received her degree in Art History years ago from Pitzer. A school she chose due to no math req. When she went back to school she was dismayed that she had to take quite a few classes just to get on the waiting list for the nursing program. She has struggled through Algebra with a tutor in a class filled with 18 year olds. She also is having to take US History and a few others as her degree from Pitzer had no core requirements so that she is basically starting over.
Years ago the only D I ever received in College was is Physics. After that class I changed my major.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 12:04 pm: Edit

We've moved many times so I have gone through many highschool programs with my kids. The "typical" one used in the prep schools and honors programs in highschool starts with Bio freshman year, Chem sophomore year, Physics or AP Bio junior year, AP Physics or Ap Bio or APChem senior year. The AP Physics has the AP Cal AB has a co or prerequisite and advanced kids who are into science can double up. I don't think it matters if you take the Bio or Chem first and the regular physics looks light to me. My son is taking AP Bio and an Ecology course as science this year as his school also offers elective science courses; marine biology, ecology, anatomy, astronomy, geology. Two years of laboratory science are required for graduation, a requirement that cannot be fulfilled by the elective courses though it seems like my son is spending more time on that ecology course than any of his other courses, and a lot of the time is on lab activities. He enjoys bio and it is really a shame that he has not been more diligent in his academics because I think he would have liked to have gone on in this field. He tested a 700 in the SAT2 bio as a freshman and I think hew will do well on the AP test and will retake the SAT2 bio this year. Unfortunately his math and other science grades have consistently dipped into the C level and he is at best a B student in everything else. He could be doing much better but he just does not like to hit the books and does not study anywhere enough. Kids at his school, actually any school, taking college prep courses put much more time than he does on school work and that has been a bone of contention for years between us. When he spent a year at an "easy" school, he just adjusted his efforts accordingly to get the same B-C report card as ever. He just did not learn as much because he really did no work then. At his current school, he has to do a good bit of work to get by and that is the only reason he does it.
The history sequence concerns me at his current school because it does not follow the usual sequencing. He is supposed to take AP US history at the end of the year but I don't see how the heck he is going to do decently because the curriculum seems to be 20th century World history to me. I am going to ask the counselor about this. My other kids all went to college with 18 credits of history--European, American, and Government. This one bombed the European AP and I suspect the curriculum was not in line with the exam.
My son at college who is an English major ended up taking the traditional science courses to take care of his science electives. Though he did not excell (he took a bio course along with the premeds against my advice), he found that having taken the 3 solid sciences as he did he high school made it easier. He took AP Physics as a senior, having taken a useless Physics class as a freshman (they built rollercoasters and read sci-fi books, I did not see an equations or numbers), and did well on the AP test. He paired it with a calc class but I would say it could have been done without it. Now there is more than one level of AP Physics, is there not? I have seen different designation of it but I do not know the difference. I have not seen many physics majors, come to think of it.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 12:21 pm: Edit

Soozie, just want to let you know that if your daughter looks like she will be a high scorer on the SAT1 and PSAT and if this does indeed end up being her junior year, make sure she takes the SAT1 this school year and the SAT2 writing, and let National Merit know the situation about missing the PSAT in the fall. I know a young lady in the same situation and they told her that the SAT scores can be used in lieu of the PSAT. The situation is actually covered on the National Merit website, and you might want to take a look see. Though most kids I know get maybe $2000 out of the deal when they qualify, with 2 in college, that is nothing to sniff at. We have gone after smaller merit awards. We have never been in the running for National Merit anything, but your daughter sounds like she may be.
College Night for Juniors is this week at my son's school. I have been to so many of these but not yet at this school. Planned to drop in last year but got hung up on something else. They have a head of adcom from a top school as a guest speaker, am interested in his take on the admissions picture this year. I am apprehensive about this college app venture because he really is too young, I think, but a gap or postgrad year for him does not look like a good option. He thinks he wants to go into Drama or MT. Which means auditions as well as visits, apps, tests, etc. He also has another factor looming onto the scene. He has grown so much, physically and athletically this year. He made all conference, or some other designation for football, and has been named next year's captain. The coach has informed us that if he goes to a training camp this summer and plays well this fall, he would be a definite recruit. Sports are generally incompatible with theater programs, particularly the ones he thinks he wants. So there is going to have to be some major decision making to do. My other son who is in a spring sport at college took a lead in production, and just about gave his coach a coronary with the practice and workout time he had to miss, and this was just a student musical, not a drama department production. He's been asked not to try out for any more plays, musicals, etc. As a result, he oould only join a couple of chamber groups during his years at college and few adhoc student productions where there were few or no rehearsals. But he was not in theater.
Well, the time marches on. Another crop of students coming up in the application process. I'm doing another workshop soon still on this year's apps. Not everyone is done yet.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 01:05 pm: Edit

Thanks Jamimom with the heads up on the SAT thing. No decision about my D on what grade we will call her next year, just have not dealt with it yet...too much going on. But I have no problem letting her take SATs this year and she plans to likely, plus some SAT2s. I guess in case this is her next to last year, I did not know about the PSAT thing you just said cause she missed it to go see my dad at the last minute unexpectedly. I figured she would be in PSATs next fall. I guess I will find out about it when I need to and I will remember what you just said, thanks.

I read your story of your son and sports/theater conflicts. Been there many times. We have conflicts for both my kids in their activities all the time, today included. We have that in a general sense. However, relating to the one you mentioned between sports and performing arts, that was an issue w/ the varsity softball coach and while my D planned to play softball throughout high school cause she has played her whole life and played JV as a freshman, when she went to the meeting with the varsity coach, it was so clear that a child could never miss for any reason, plus he emphasized that winning was everything, etc. In spring, she always has her annual dance performance (has danced her whole life, year round) and gets into All State for music (which truly relates to a class she takes in school - band - and so not even really an EC) and that involves a few days at the festival. There was no way that coach would ever allow that. She decided starting in tenth grade to switch her spring sport to tennis as she had played tennis for years and in fact became the number one singles player as soon as she got on the team (the tennis coach likes to say she defected to his team from softball, lol...he wanted her all along). That coach supports her other endeavors and would never say do not go to All States or your dance show. So, it works for her in that one thing. However, while she has done a lot of musical theater since she was five years old, including four summers at a theater camp and numerous productions, she has had to forego the school musicals cause of conflicts with the ski team. It is a shame given her background/talent in that field. But she tried out as a freshman, is a dancer to boot, and the director kept calling our house to talk to her following auditions cause it was clear he was considering her and ski season overlapped the first three weeks of the rehearsal period, but she got the ski team coach to let her practice less days per week over that period so she could do the musical three days a week (instead of five) for those overlapping weeks. However, the musical director told her he could not cast her cause of that. It is understandable but then again, she likely was going to be a Kit Kat Girl in Cabaret (which my seventh grader got to be in the high school musical) and did not figure they would be needed all five days per week in the initial weeks of a long three month rehearsal period. As it turns out, there were so many snow days those weeks, that her ski team conflict would not have made a difference but anyway, she never tried out again for the school productions. My other child has conflicts for the school musicals in that she has required dance troupe rehearsals one day per week that overlap school show rehearsals, but somehow the director keeps casting her as the leads anyway.

I find our daily life involves conflicts galore. Somehow the kids find a way to work it out. Each instructor/director/coach feels very strongly about their activity and of course attendance is quite important as is commmittment. Sometimes, however, the conflicts are reasonable as these are kids and some are understanding, some are not. I remember one dance teacher last year giving my daughter a very hard time for missing one class due to attending All States but she had to go to All States (who would not as it is an honor) cause it was related to a class she takes in school. Sometimes the school concert lands on a dance night, or some such. I think kids need to committ and not miss practices/classes but at times, reasonable conflicts arise. Meanwhile, tonight my younger one is missing her tap dance troupe rehearsal and her ballet/pointe class due to dress rehearsal for the musical she is running. I know in college my older one will have to see if she can be in dance troupes, musical ensembles, and theater productions, while playing her three sports. She has managed to do all this here, not easily but wants to keep doing these interests in college. For your son, he could keep doing theatrical productions in college on the football off season, but not likely if he actually pursues musical theater programs/major. He likely could do both if merely EC pursuits. I dunno but life is full of these choices! My younger one had to give up her sports to do all the shows she does but that was worth it to her. When push came to shove for the older one she would not give up ski racing to do the school show. She found ways to keep doing shows (in summer) instead. The other one is always in a show year round. Also she took on six dance classes while the other stuck with two so she can still do sports. Each kid ultimately has to decide. But surely the schedules are very difficult (plus for us the distances to stuff is great).
Susan