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My son is a junior in high school with a 3.65 GPA. He took the SAT I for the first time last month and scored poorly. He is very dissapointed because he sees his changes of going to a good college vanish. I tryed to explain to him that he can take it again this spring and if he studies for the test he can probably do a lot better. He said that he does not have time to study for the test because he has only time to study to keep his grades up. I am concerned that if he takes the test again in the spring, without studying and does not do well, this will be a bad sign to potential colleges. Can anyone advise?

By Mac (Mac) on Tuesday, January 07, 2003 - 02:21 pm: Edit

By the way he scored V=580, M=570

By noexpert on Tuesday, January 07, 2003 - 04:26 pm: Edit

My son wasn't happy with his first try on the SAT I, either. Since his classes were so intense that he was already very sleep-deprived during the school year, we waited for summer for him to prep. We bought a couple of second hand SAT prep books, and throughout the summer he took a test a week, and then took the SAT in the early fall of his senior year. The scores were released in time for his Early Decision application. His score improved quite a bit the second time around. Good luck to both of you, may our teenagers not get burned out before they even graduate from high school!

By Anon on Tuesday, January 07, 2003 - 05:00 pm: Edit

There are some schools that don't require standardized testing, some excellent ones, too! Check them out. You can try USNews webpages for a list.

By Mac (Mac) on Tuesday, January 07, 2003 - 08:35 pm: Edit

Thanks Anon. This is good (and new) news. Could you name some of the "excellent" schools that do not require SAT/ACT scores? Meanwhile I'll check the USNews webpage as you suggest.

By justlurking on Tuesday, January 07, 2003 - 09:30 pm: Edit

If you can afford it, I'd recommend a prep course or a private tutor -- the prep courses usually meet once a week for about 8 weeks (he can do it over the summer & take the Oct SAT). This will give your son some structure & he will probably need less actual studying than if he goes it alone. You can do the same w/ a private tutor -- a tutor is even more efficient b/c the tutor will concentrate on your son's weak areas. (We took this approach -- it is slightly more expensive than a prep course, but it is great if your child tends to be uptight -- it avoids the competitiveness & general anxiety of a prep course classroom.) One thing to keep in mind, however, is that many students improve b/n their junior & senior year, so tell your son not to sweat it -- even if all he does is a
few practice tests he will probably do better next fall. BTW, if your son skips the tests this Spring he can take the Oct and/or Nov tests next fall -- the scores will be in in time for ED. (you will need to do some planning to fit in the SAT IIs). So, since your son sounds kind of anxious about the whole thing, I'd bag it for the spring tests & prep over the summer.

By anonymous on Tuesday, January 07, 2003 - 09:41 pm: Edit

Wow.... you people should relax.... your son's still in junior high....
he needs time to blossom
dont worry so much because itll be 3-4 years before it really matters

By Anon on Wednesday, January 08, 2003 - 07:22 am: Edit

Bowdoin, Connecticut College and Muhlenberg are a few off the top of my head that don't require these tests. Also Mt. Holyoke (for girls only). Middlebury requires some combination; you can withhold SAT Is if you submit SAT IIs (or something like that) which could be advantageous to some depending on the breakdown.

Another option: some people find the ACT much easier because supposedly it's more fact-based and less theoretical. Most schools will accept it in lieu of the SAT. Your son could take that and see if it expands his list of options.

By Mac (Mac) on Wednesday, January 08, 2003 - 08:40 am: Edit

Dear anonymous,
My son is NOT in junior high! Please re-read my original post, he is a junior in high school.

By parent on Thursday, January 09, 2003 - 02:46 pm: Edit

I don't think 1150 is terrible. It is above average in both areas. There is still time to improve at least 100 points!

By Kipsta (Kipsta) on Thursday, January 09, 2003 - 05:03 pm: Edit

My daughter was in the same situation last year, with almost identical scores. She took the SAT I again, and the ACT, and always got about the same score - so I'm not all that sold on different tests, SAT prep courses, etc. - some kids just don't test that well on the standardized tests that are out there. It became a big stress thing with her and after two tries at the SAT and one at the ACt it was clear that she was not going to do all that much better.....

She was admitted ED to her first-choice school, which is SAT-optional. She did submit her scores, but I got the distinct impression that they were not given much consideration - it was not a reach school in any other way, and she had a really good package of recs, really strong essay (IMO, lol), great first-quarter grades in AP-level courses etc. so I don't think SATs were much of a factor.

I am not sure how her standardized test scores would have affected her if she had been in the RD pool at some of the other schools she was interested in, but my gut feeling is that they would not have affected her much at the two small LACs she was most interested in, but would have been a major impediment to admission at the highly competitive universities that were on her list(William&Mary, BC). But her grades were quite good (similar to your son's 3.6 uw/3.9 w) and her ECs were pretty exceptional.

It is hard to really draw a bead on the importance of standardized test scores in the admission process. An admissions counselor from BC said flat-out "your test scores from one saturday morning compared to your transcript representing three-and-a-half years of your life - which one will I weight more heavily? come on!" but it is still daunting to look at a school like BC with 20,000 applicants, where your SAT scores are 200 points below the mean, and think that you have much of a shot.....

However, many good schools are de-emphasizing or doing away with standardized test requirements. SAT-optional schools include Bowdoin, Bates, Connecticut College, Dickinson, Union (NY) and a number of others, and Trinity, while not exactly SAT-optional,has changed its SAT requirements significantly this past year. These are just schools in the Northeast - I am sure there are a number of others.

By Mac (Mac) on Friday, January 10, 2003 - 09:17 am: Edit

Thanks Kipsta. I have to admit that I am a bit discouraged by your posting. How much did your daughter study for the exams? My son studied very little, he only did a couple of mock tests. In my opinion, he pretty much took the SAT cold.

One more thing, do you or anyone know of good schools in the south/midwest that are de-emphasizing or doing away with standardized test requirements?

By Lynn Walker on Friday, January 10, 2003 - 04:30 pm: Edit

Some kids just don't test well on standardized tests. My daughter is a junior with a 4.0 unweighted with AP and Honors classes. She plans to take a real SAT I in the Spring and also the ACT. She was soooo disappointed in her PSAT and PLAN test scores. Her PSAT was a 169 index and her PLAN (ACT) in the 21 to 23 range. She used 10 Real SAT's to prep before taking the PSAT, and her score was almost consistently 1150 or 1160 (which correlates to the PSAT score she received). This is particularly hard on her since her sister was a National Merit Scholar. She is a 15 yo junior, having skipped a grade and being young for the grade she is supposed to be in. I think age, hence brain development and the years to learn more vocab., etc., does play a role here.

I also think some kids just aren't good at taking standardized tests. Mine gets anxious, feels rushed, and is a slow reader. Her goal is to go to Pepperdine or USC. It does look like admissions committees are starting to get away from the emphasis on test scores. Let's hope the trend continues. My daughter has incredible community service and good school EC's with leadership. She plans to continue to prep (when she has time) try both tests this Spring and again next Fall.

Good luck to your son--lots of empathy here.

By Jdf418 (Jdf418) on Saturday, March 22, 2003 - 01:18 am: Edit

He should take it 3 times. VOCAB VOCAB VOCAB-that is the easiest way to improve a verbal score, make sure he reads a lot, even getting him a magazine subscription can help,

math takes more time but isn't impossible, there are plenty of good strategies to increase scores that don't require learning a whole new subject (is a tutor out of the question? if so then ask him if he can get some help from a math teacher on a few particular reoccuring problems taht give trouble on practice exams from test books, that way he might be able to get it up)

also, he should have good extracurriculars and leadership roles, as well as enthusiasm for his major and desired institution

i am going to cornell next fall, v 720, m 580

great schools: Washington U in st. louis, georgetown, george washington, U of Virginia, U of Michigan

By Me123 (Me123) on Saturday, March 22, 2003 - 06:56 pm: Edit

He could study over the summer and take it again in the fall. That's what I'm planning on doing b/c I barely have enough time to study for my classes, and really can't fit more than a few practice SAT's every once and a while into my schedule.

By Sallyr (Sallyr) on Sunday, March 23, 2003 - 08:13 am: Edit

If your child’s scores are truly disappointing, one of your first stops might be FairTest (or phone 617/864-4810). This Massachusetts organization, which contends that admission testing is biased and unreliable, maintains an updated list of the hundreds of colleges and universities that do not use SAT or ACT scores to make admission decision. Among them are these names you may know:

Antioch (OH)
Bard College (NY)
Bates College (ME)
Bowdoin College (ME)
College of the Atlantic (ME)
Dickinson College (PA)
Franklin & Marshall (PA) (SAT/ACT is used only when minimum GPA or class rank is not met.)
Hampshire College (MA)
Mount Holyoke College (MA)
Muhlenberg College (PA)
New England College (NH)
St. John’s College (MD & NM)
Wheaton College (MA)

Some colleges (e.g., Middlebury College in Vermont; Union College and Sarah Lawrence College, both in NY, and Connecticut College) allow students to substitute three SAT II Subject Tests for the SAT I.

Hint: If one (or more) of these colleges is on your short list, don’t have SAT I scores sent to them until you have seen them first, and if they’re not so hot, tuck them under the mattress.
Colleges that don’t require test scores will probably use them for those candidates who submit them anyway. If you don’t want colleges to see scores, make sure they are not included on your child’s high school transcript

By Zerg_Vvins (Zerg_Vvins) on Saturday, April 12, 2003 - 03:35 pm: Edit

This isn't to discourage you Mac, but getting a good GPA isn't hard, it just requires persistence and in most cases turning homework in.
One other thing that's also important is the difficulty of the courses that your son is taking. If he has all easy classes then.....

Scoring high on standardized testing requires a lot of effort. I mean for my SAT, I spent two summers memorizing vocab! It's definitely worth it!

By Elleneast (Elleneast) on Saturday, April 12, 2003 - 04:08 pm: Edit

To Lynn Walker:
Encourage your daughter take her final SAT's as late as possible. My daughter went up dramatically between the winter of junior year and the fall of senior year. Call me crazy but I honestly think one reason was that she was in the midst of a major growth/developmental spurt during her junior year. I am talking about a 100 point jump. Wild.

By Caramelapple (Caramelapple) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 12:13 am: Edit

Elleneast: Did your daughter study a lot during the period between the times that she took the SAT?

By L_Wonder (L_Wonder) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 06:16 pm: Edit

Mac-
Don't be discouraged by those low scores. The best thing he should do is familiarize himself with the test. It is not even so much about studying, but just taking practice tests a few times to get more comfortable with the format. Memorizing a bunch of tricks and strategies may not be the best way for everyone, and it may freak him out even more. A lot of the SAT is just about luck anyways. A score can vary as much as 200 points just because the taker was in a more confident mood the second time around.

By Wiscmom (Wiscmom) on Wednesday, April 16, 2003 - 09:45 pm: Edit

Take heart -- those are better than average scores. My son took the SAT twice, and fell into the low 1200s both times, but did a bit better on the ACT -- 28 -- his second go-round there. Some students do better on the ACT than the SAT just by the nature of the test. Consider that option -- worth trying. My son, also, felt as if he didn't have time to study for the SAT, in addition to trying to compete in three sports, NHS, church, etc. With a solid GPA (3.9), he ended up being admitted to several good Midwest state schools, and will go to one he really liked -- UW-Madison. This is meant to be a message of encouragement, good luck!

By Elleneast (Elleneast) on Wednesday, April 16, 2003 - 10:07 pm: Edit

Caramelapple:
She took an SAT prep course just before her Junior year. She did a great deal of vocab prep on her own during the summer between Junior and Senior years.

By Sluggbugg (Sluggbugg) on Thursday, April 17, 2003 - 09:09 pm: Edit

Mac, please tell him NOT to be discouraged! He's got plenty of time to bring his score up, and the majority of kids I know took the test more than once. He can take the SATs (I & II) as many times as he wishes. He can then choose his best scores to publish and have them sent to the colleges.

A couple of things will help to improve his odds right away. Purchase an SAT study guide, and use it to prep for the test. There really is a strategy for taking the SAT, and it's a definite advantage if you know the tricks.

My dd also took an SAT prep course during the summer of her junior year, and it helped improve her scores quite a bit, more than 100 pts. on each subject. This is where she learned the most about taking the SAT. A good course will give them practice tests that are previously given SAT's, so they are well rehearsed when they take the test again.

If you live in the SF Bay Area, send me some email, and I'll be happy to tell you which service we used. The teachers were great, and the classes were always enjoyable.

Prep courses aren't worth the money if your son doesn't do the course homework, so he has to be self-motivated to improve his score. It helps if he knows other people who are taking the test at the same time. It also helps to sign up early for a test date so he can be on familiar turf, i.e. at his own high school.

My dd took the SAT(I) and 3 SAT(II)'s in the Spring of her junior year, followed by an SAT prep course that ended right before she started her senior year in August. She signed up for the first test that was scheduled in the Fall.

Tell your son not to give up! He is going to feel great after he's had a chance to properly prepare and take the test again! Best of luck!

By Sluggbugg (Sluggbugg) on Thursday, April 17, 2003 - 09:44 pm: Edit

Mac -- P.S. I was just told that students are no longer permitted to hide SAT scores. They can't take the test more than once and choose to publish only their best score. They have to publish all of their scores. Darn! Check with collegeboard.com to confirm this.

My dd informed me that she took her first SAT-I in the Fall of her junior year. She took 3 SAT-II's in the Spring of her junior year, and then took the SAT-I a second time in October of her senior year.

By Hsjunior7 (Hsjunior7) on Monday, May 05, 2003 - 07:59 am: Edit

hey, i actually have another problem...decent SAT score (1520), but really low GPA (3.6W) for the colleges im applying to. this is basically the only problem i have (i think i have more than enough e.c.'s/community service hours) but it is a major problem. the school i attend is quite rigorous and my classes are challenging but is still believe a 3.6W GPA is low. so i have no idea what to do about this...

By Stellarguy (Stellarguy) on Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 02:26 pm: Edit

1520 is AN EXELLECENT SCORE your nuts. 3.6 is very good too

dont worry buddy

By Wpblackknights (Wpblackknights) on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 12:41 am: Edit

I have a 4.14 GPA but my SAT score is low (1150) will this keep me from going to a good college?

By Sallyr (Sallyr) on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 08:10 am: Edit

If, by "good" college, you mean an Ivy League school or one of a handful of equivalents (Stanford, Swarthmore, Amherst, etc.), then, yes, your 1150 will probably keep you from being admitted, barring extenuating circumstances (disadvantaged background, superior athletic ability, some other extraordinary talent or unique situation). However, there are many, many fine colleges that will welcome you.

One place to look for such schools is in Colleges That Change Lives by Loren Pope. In addition, see my post above with the link to the FairTest Web site so you can get the latest list of colleges and universities that don't require SAT scores at all.