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I'm giving the final review to some apps and wondering a bit about the frequent supplemental app question asking where else students are applying. I know that schools put this on to see who their direct competition is, but have heard people advise leaving the question blank or leaving highly selective schools off apps to less selective schools.

I'm inclined to answer directly, but how did you and your kids handle this?

By Chemgirl04 (Chemgirl04) on Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 11:54 pm: Edit

I had the same question....

By Sac (Sac) on Wednesday, December 31, 2003 - 12:37 am: Edit

S and I batted this question around, but finally filled it out. He put that he has been admitted EA at a selective school, plus others to which he is applying, in hopes that this particular college would see he is not using it as a safety, but casting his net more widely. Will this inspire them to offer merit aid? Or suggest they can brag when they turn him down? Who the heck knows. I don't really understand why they ask this question, but because S is a direct and honest kind of guy, he just felt it was not a trick question and that he should answer directly and honestly.

By Bobmcc (Bobmcc) on Wednesday, December 31, 2003 - 01:14 am: Edit

i think it's mostly a marketing tool. Forinstance many of the same students apply to Macalester, Carleton and Grinnell. Grinnell "knows" that the most merit aid Mac will give is 5k. Hence, if they want to up their ante a little, they'll toss in a few thousand more of merit aid.

Similar reasons for colleges which have admitted students declining acceptance sending out fairly long questionnaires. (though all but UNC used the same form...there were different reasons for deciding against the various alternatives so Adam couldn't just reuse the same answers)

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Wednesday, December 31, 2003 - 10:05 am: Edit

I guess we lucked out as none of my D's applications asked this question and so far none of her interviewers have either. Then again, if you read my thread entitled "your opinion" you will see that even so, one of her teacher recs inadvertantly left ehe word, "Yale", in one spot of the narrative so each school knows she applied to that one.
Susan

By Aparent4 (Aparent4) on Wednesday, December 31, 2003 - 11:25 am: Edit

This is a question to be prepared for in an interview, even if it's not on the app. D was interviewing at her safety, a school we all liked very much. She was totally surprised to be asked where else she was applying. As she began to list the schools, she had the sinking feeling that it was all too obvious that the present institution was far less selective. She had the presence of mind to mention another one on a similar level that she was thinking of applying to. Hope this helps anybody else to prepare ahead of time!

By Flgirl04 (Flgirl04) on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 11:21 pm: Edit

I am a senior and when faced with this question on one of my apps, I was honest. Many "lower' ranked schools tend to offer more money to students who apply to higher calibur schools in an effort to increase their ranking and overall student body. One can never tell what the ADCOM's are looking for. Don't leave anything out. If a school does not accept you for the sole fact that you applied to Harvard or Yale, then that is obviously not the school for you.

By Heyheyhoho (Heyheyhoho) on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 12:18 am: Edit

Does anybody have a definitive answer to this question? Only one of the schools I am applying to asks this question on the application, but it is less selective than many of the other college I am applying to. I am afraid to leave the question blank, but I'm unsure as to which schools I should list. The school is Grinnell. It truly is one of my top choices. These are my three options:

1. List Carleton. If I do this it shows Grinnell that I am interested in the midwestern liberal arts school. Most students, however, choose Carleton over Grinnell, and I am afraid they will think I'd be inclined to do the same. I'm thinking I shouldn't write down Carleton.
2. List selective northeast liberal arts schools. I would prefer to attend Grinnell over many more selective schools on the East, and I'm afraid if I list them (Swarthmore, Wesleyan, Bowdoin, Williams), they think I will go to these schools instead (because I'm on the East Coast)
3. List less selective/safety public universities. While these schools are less selective than Grinnell, the fact that I am applying to them may cause the admissions committee to think I am not truly committed to the idea of the small liberal arts college (which I am; these schools are mostly financial safeties).

Any advice?

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 12:48 am: Edit

Yep, those are your choices. Or you can leave the section blank. There is no right answer. Kids do all of the above and I've yet to discern any pattern as to any effect the answer has. I believe it is more a reflection on the applicant and his state of mind at the time he makes this decision than anything else and it all depends on the college admissions officer who looks at the app as to how the answer is taken.
I have heard that certain schools do not like being considered safety schools and may take umbrage if these schools perceive the applicant considers them as such. I hesitate to even mention any of them though I have at times, because it is all rumor, hearsay and nothing I can verify. They are not the schools you have listed, I can tell you and I know kids who applied to Grinnell and were accepted despite their other school choices which were known to Grinnell. One I know, ended up there and loves it--was not originally his first choice, but a nice merit award swayed him. These things do happen.

By Reidmc (Reidmc) on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 12:55 am: Edit

From what I know about Grinnell I'd agree with Jamimom. It doesn't strike me as a school that would be too concerned with your other choices. They do well by accepting very talented students and providing generous aid.

By Bobmcc (Bobmcc) on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 10:29 am: Edit

by all means...list them..Grinnell admissions people are very lovely, really. They offered to keep our son's acceptance and merit award available for 3 years even after they found out that he finally picked macalester at the last minute (in case he decided to transfer..he's been very happy at mac, but i'm sure he'd have been equally happy at grinnell - except that Mac has 3 composers/composition teachers in residence and i think Grinnell has 1 - though he's first rate). It really was the ultimate win/win situation.

By Heyheyhoho (Heyheyhoho) on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 01:45 am: Edit

thanks for all of the advice! i've decided to list all of the schools (including Carleton, Wesleyan, Swarthmore, Middlebury, Vassar, Michigan, Rutgers).

Speak now if you have any other suggestions!

By Interesteddad (Interesteddad) on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 11:20 am: Edit

My daughter had this question on one application (Davidson). Whether to answer it or not really depends on how you are trying to present yourself to the particular school.

For example, my D's application was somewhat unique in that she was a New England student who had several very good southern schools not just on her list, but at the very top of her list. Part of her "Why Davidson?" essay addressed her reasons for wanting to attend a school in the south.

Since this is not the typical "New Englander" reason (more typical would be aapplying to a southern schools as a "backup"), it probably would work to her benefit for Davidson to see the other schools on her list. For another student, where Davidson might be the only school outside of New England, it might not be wise to answer the question.

Like everything else on the application, this question has to be considered against the entire backdrop and "message" of the application. The transcript needs to be consistent with the essays, the essays need to be consistent with the "Why Podunk U?", etc.

Everything about these applications is much easier if you start with a simple idea: three key 'bullet points' you wish to emphasize to the adcom at the particular school. In my daughter's case, one of her 'bullet points' to the southern schools was that she was an attractive academic candidate who did NOT want to go to college within 2 hours of home and was excited about going to a southern school. In other words, she was choosing Davidson over equally good LACs in New England. That's a bullet point that a Davidson adcom could embrace, so emphasizing it whenever possible makes sense, including on the list of other considered schools.

By Metz (Metz) on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 05:46 pm: Edit

I had this question for my Boston University app. I was going to put "none of your damn business," but decided it probably wouldn't be a smart idea. Instead I decided to just not answer it, because it really isn't their business. I'm using them as a safety school, and they probably know that, but nevertheless I still wouldn't tell them which places I'm applying to.

By Over30 (Over30) on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 05:55 pm: Edit

Jamimom, I know we've discussed the issue of schools thinking a student is using them as a safety. I actually had an adcom tell me this. It was in a conversation we had specifically about the students who apply from our high school. This is a "just below Ivy" school that has a very good reputation.

My son is applying to two such schools, where he appears to be a "match" based on his numbers, etc., but both schools may consider him as a "safety school" student. We are considering these schools as "reach" schools for that reason. He would be very happy to attend both of these schools. He has also applied at 3 schools that are reach schools for everyone, as well as 2 safety schools.

He sent in an app this week that asked this question. Because he was accepted EA at MIT and another school with rolling type admission, we listed all of the schools where he is applying and put "accepted" for those 2 schools. Our thinking was that the schools would realize he's not using them as a safety since he has already been accepted at MIT. All but MIT and 1 other school offer scholarships. We are hoping that these schools may pony up more merit money. We may be completely wrong, but S didn't want to leave it blank since they asked, and he felt this was the right way to handle it. I guess we'll know soon enough.

By Coureur (Coureur) on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 07:08 pm: Edit

I don't think any of D's applications asked this question although several interviewers did, including the Wellesley alumna who interviewed her on New Years Day. OT: They spent part of the time talking about the "Mona Lisa Smiles" movie. The local Wellesley alums went to see it as a group - some who went to school in the early 50s thought it was reasonably accurate. Others who attended both earlier and later were outraged, some even to the point of walking out.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 08:40 pm: Edit

As I have said earlier, the way anyone answers the question depends on the person and how he feels like answering and his mood at the moment. How it is perceived depends on the school and the adcom reviewing the answer.
When I worked in an admissions office at a highly selective college, I never heard anyone trying to second guess where the student was applying or whether they should accept someone because he would probably go else where. The application form did ask if the applicant applied for financial aid, the fin aid office was just down the hall but I never saw any collusion between the two offices except for one simple procedure. All acceptances were sorted into "A", "B", and "C" categories. The "A"s were given a special invite for a picnic lunch, tour and visit. Some were tagged for a special "likely" call. The lists were sent to Financial Aid and they would give preferential packages to those on the "A" list.
I never saw any lists showing where else the applicants were applying which would have been a simple thing. I feel comfortable saying that at that particular school where else the applicant was applying had no bearing on the admissions decision.
But today kids are applying to many, many more schools and yield has become a sore point. Sore enough that USN&WR has decided to remove that statistic from their annual report. And there are some kids who are unfortunately collecting college acceptances as an ego trip. They apply to multiple schools for no other reason than to get as many acceptances as possible. And then there is the gray area where kids apply to large numbers of schools to give them as many choices since it is a long span of time between January and April as many on this forum are finding out. The adcoms are being put in a position where it is downright frightening to guess who is actually going to show up at the door. Imagine having to report that despite record application volume, matriculation is down. Someone's head in admissions is going to roll if that happens. That's why we are seeing the large waitlists and such a big difference in many schools in ED vs RD acceptances.
So what does the adcom do when they see someone has applied to 8 highly selective schools, has the stats to be a good candidate at those schools, and has applied to their not as selective school? Actually what to do when you see alot of applications showing this pattern, and then you see a similar candidate applying to schools with similar stats to your own school?
Over30, I don't think I would recommend to anyone to give info that an applicant has been accepted to MIT. It's overinformation as far as I am concerned and just unnecessary. Will it make a differernce? It could. But then again, not necessarily.
I will tell you that when I helped my kids with their applications, I did research what scholarships the schools had and added a sheet in larger type letting the adcoms know that we were interested in scholarships, listing specific ones. I feel that it really helped my kids because their stats are not the kind that would attract merit awards and they got them. I have noticed that this approach seems to get the attention of the adcomms and put the applicant into the consideration pool for the awards. I know that many of these awards are open to all applicants and they are all supposed to be under consideration for them, but there is so much confusion and so much volume during the application appraisal time that it is easy to be overlooked. Just as I recommend an informal resume for an interviewer, a "cheat sheet" for the recommenders, I think that extra reminder can be helpful.
I was pretty much convinced that this approach works when my son transferred to a catholic prep school that was not really academically top rate. Not that many kids applied to ivies or highly selective schools but the list of scholarship money these guys got was eyepopping. The counselors there were really up on which schools had what awards and looked for matches among their student body. They shared this info on their web site and a newletter they sent out monthly. They very obligingly gave prior year lists of awards and who got them. And they were very happy to specifically recommend kids for specific awards. At the end of the year the kids got all kinds of award money, my son included. I had never seen this kind of aggressive approach to merit awards and I have to say the results were impressive. I still get their lists years after my son has left and have referred kids to these awards and I do not believe that it is a coincidence that as many kid that do get the awards. There was a book out that included school specific scholarships called "Scholarships for B students", and that has been a great resource.
The reason I am bringing this up is because if you are looking for money for your son, you may want to directly tell the schools where he is applying. Research what scholarships they have and mention them by name if you think they apply to him. Have HIM send a note saying that he is interested in the school and those specific merit awards. Since they now know he has been accepted by MIT and another school, your son may want to let them know that he is strongly in the market for merit aid that he has not gotten. I think that tired adcoms don't always get subtleties and they may get the wrong impression with the way you handled the info.
Good luck to your son.

By Over30 (Over30) on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 11:47 am: Edit

Jamimim - thanks for your usual insightful and informative post. I know this may have been the wrong way to handle the "where are you applying" question. However, after considering the pros and cons, this is what he wanted to do. Also, this information was only sent to the one school that asked.

I think it was Susan who advised to make sure everything sent out by the HS was correct. We checked the school profile and his transcript for errors. Everything was in order. After most of the transcripts were sent out we realized that the counselor had written, on the transcript, the name of every school and scholarship to which she sent a transcript. Since the schools already knew where he had applied, he thought it would be appropriate, in light of the safety school issue, to let this school know he was still interested by telling them he had already been admitted to his far-reach school. BTW, this was a school that said not to send anything extra, and since he applied online there was not even a cover letter to send. (I think the financial aid forms also have a list of all the other schools, but they don�t get that until later in the process.)

I�m sure you�re right that the �where else� question is not important to the highly selective schools. It's the others which might find this information useful. We were so naive when we started this process that it never occurred to us that such a situation might exist until an ad com told me her school does consider whether they might be a safety. It was just odd to me that a school might consider a student �too� qualified. At the time I didn't realize the importance of yield.

I realize you may have gotten the idea that my S applied to 8 highly selective schools, or was applying to feed his ego. There may be students who consider acceptances as notches on a belt, but that in no way describes my son. Only 2 (not 3) of his schools really are in the "highly selective" category . The rest run the gamut from moderately selective down to one school most people have never heard of but which has a program he likes. In fact 2 of his schools are rarely mentioned anywhere on this board. He carefully researched and applied to schools which he hopes can provide the education and the environment he wants. I'm thankful that he is flexible and didn't have his heart set on just one school. We all know how that can end. He feels incredibly fortunate to have gotten into his EA school, but there was certainly no guarantee.

He would love to go to MIT; that�s why he worked so hard to be competitive in their pool. He is also practical and realistic. He is willing to take out loans and work to help finance his education, and we will do everything we can to help him go where he wants. But he knows $160,000+ is a lot of money and will seriously consider the other schools he selected. He knows he can get a good education at all of the schools on his list. Some of them cost as much as MIT but offer merit aid. In fact all but the 2 highly selective schools offer merit aid. We are in the class that needs fin. aid but probably won't get much (ok, none), which makes merit aid schools attractive.

I think there are separate issues here of getting accepted and getting financial aid. I know it�s common for parents to negotiate for financial aid based on other offers. In my son�s case, that may be a consideration, but getting accepted was his first concern; then we'll worry about aid.

Most of his schools have separate scholarship applications, but he will heed your advice to tell the rest which scholarships he�s interested in. Also, do you know how lucky you were to have counselors who helped their students get scholarships? That is amazing and totally foreign to me.

Sorry for the long and rambling post. This was a tough issue, and he may have made a mistake, but it�s done. Like most everything associated with college admissions, it�s hard to know what the ad coms are thinking.

Another parent here reports doing the same thing. With the popularity of EA and SCEA, I�m sure others will have the same dilemna. Does anyone else have thoughts on this?

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 01:30 pm: Edit

I do not think your son or you are hunting for lots of acceptances nor do I believe you are in that gray area that my son was in when he applied to 17 schools. 8 schools is not a lot these days especially for someone who is looking for merit money. I think that in your case being completely honest is the right thing to do. Have your son let the schools know that merit awards will have a large impact on where he will end up going to school and ask about his eligibility for specific scholarships that his school may have. My son applied to 5 very selective school, 7 selective schools and 5 schools that accept more students than they turn down. He was accepted to only one in the first group with no merit money, to everything in the second group with varying amounts of scholarships ranging from none to half tuition. He had some full ride offers in the third category. He ended up going to a school in the second category with a $10k merit award. He did inquire about each of the awards he ended up getting. I know many other kids who have applied to the same colleges with better stats who never got any info on the merit awards even though the schools say that for most of those awards, all applicants are considered.
It's just that when your son indicates he is already accepted to MIT, it leaves the field wide open as to what the adcom looking at the app is going to think. If he says he has been accepted to MIT but that merit aid will figure strongly in where he ends up going and that he is specifically interested in the XXYZ scholarship for which he feels he fits the criteria, it lets the school know that he has been spending time and thought on attending the school and that with the proper aid package, he could end up going there. Since MIT offers no merit aid there would be no competition from that corner. It's just that you don't want someone to pick up the app and say "oh for God's sake, this kid is already in at MIT. Why the heck is applying here?". The answer to that question will be right there--he wants that XXYZ award or ABC scholarship that MIT is not going to offer.
There are several ways a school can find out where else a student is applying so it is not a deep, dark secret. As I said, there are varying answers to the question, "where else are you applying?" and simply answering it truthfully is the easiest and most honest reply. And because a list of your schools can apply in various places, especially if you have applied for financial aid,why play games? The adcoms can simply pick up the phone and ask the school counselor if they are really curious. But where you have been accepted is a different story.

By Sac (Sac) on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 04:45 pm: Edit

Over30 and Jamimom,

We are the other family who reported here that we told a school where our son was admitted EA. In our case, he got into Stanford, and the application that asked where else he was applying is University of Chicago. He also checked off the box Chicago provides asking: do you want to be considered for merit aid.

Now I'm more worried than I was at the time, when we reasoned that a school wouldn't ask that question just to hold it against a student. We hoped U of C would understand that he was still unsure of where he would end up, and perhaps even think that merit aid could tip the balance. Clearly, he is not using them as a safety, having gotten into Stanford. But U of C is the only school on his list that offers merit aid.

The irony is that our son really likes U of C -- he liked it better than some of the Ivies we visited. He spent a lot of time on their application. He mentioned going to a class there in his "Why Chicago" essay. He is not collecting acceptances, he just was not sure enough of what he wanted in the fall to apply anywhere ED, so he picked one of the schools off his list that was single choice EA -- in case EA gave him an advantage, and also as a trial run in the application process -- and now is applying to the rest RD. We also encouraged him to start with Stanford from the selfish motive of wanting him to have some in-state options. But getting into Stanford helped clarify criteria somewhat for him, in that when we said he should not apply to any school he would not pick over Stanford, he realized after weeks of thought that the main reasons he might pick another college is for a combination of intellectual atmosphere and urban location. Thus, Chicago, Columbia, Yale, and Harvard stayed on the list. He had already applied to UCs.

Now,I feel really naive. Having given all that info to Chicago, do you think there is more he should do to indicate his genuine interest? He arranged for two additional letters of rec, one of which is only going to Chicago and (we hope) will be addressed directly to them. He also sent in a music cd and, although he sent the same one everywhere, he addressed the cover letter with it to individual adcoms.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 04:59 pm: Edit

What is done is done. There just was no reason to tell any school that a student has been accepted. All schools know that a student is likely to be applying other schools and that students like your kids would be applying to ivies, MIT and Stanford, and that they would be excellent candidates there. The issue is how would an acceptance be interpreted? I suggest the same thing that I did to Over30. Have your son draft a brief letter expressing interest in specific merit scholarships at Chicago. It shows he has researched the issue and that it is important to him. I also believe it enhances a student's chances for consideration for the awards. I don't remember if Stanford gives merit awards; I know it does offer athletic scholarships.
I don't think what happened was a disaster. There are many times adcomms know what is happening with a given student. If you read "Gatekeepers", one of the kids featured was a young lady that Wesleyan was tracking. The adcom there seemed to be kept apprised of her various schools and offers and it did not seem to diminish the interest in her at all. I just felt it was not a necessary piece of info to give out and could be misinterpreted in light of today's situation with college admissions.

By Sac (Sac) on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 07:12 pm: Edit

Thanks for the response. I understand your suggestion. But I think we'll let it ride for the moment, and perhaps see whether his gc can come up with a way of letting Chicago know of my son's genuine interest.

I neglected to add that he listed U of C as his first choice on national merit, after which he got an e-mail from U of C noting that National Merit winners typically stand a good chance of getting substantial merit aid from U of C. But I'm afraid if he sends them a letter now about merit aid, they may interpret it as a kind of blackmail -- that he wouldn't go there without aid -- in which case they might reject him if they aren't planning to offer money. I think he would consider going there in any case, depending on all his other choices, though aid could certainly make a difference. (And no, Stanford, like the Ivies, offers no merit aid, not even National Merit money, though you are correct that it offers athletic scholarships).

By Shitakirimusume (Shitakirimusume) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 04:00 pm: Edit

��And no, Stanford, like the Ivies, offers no merit aid, not even National Merit money, though you are correct that it offers athletic scholarships

H&Y don't offer athletic scholarships.