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Sorry to get your attention like that, but I remember that your daughter's stats were around mine, and you said that she was applying to Tufts. What are her other schools? I just wanted to get a real perspective to the kind of schools that I'm applying to.

Thanks!

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Saturday, December 27, 2003 - 12:06 pm: Edit

HI, I do not remember you per se but would be happy to share her list of applications. Just to say that I have never truly posted a list of her stats. I have commented in discussions various things about her...such as in discussions of valedictorians once, I have mentioned her being one, or in discussions of extracurriculars, I have discussed hers. I have never posted her actual stats like lists I have seen with scores, GPA, ECs, awards, etc. Perhaps I once read your stats and mentioned hers being similar in some capacity.

In any case, she has applied to: Yale, Princeton, Brown, Penn, Tufts, Smith, Connecticut College, and Lehigh. She also has a full four year scholarship to University of Vermont so has her app in there but that is not really a school she ever planned on going to and was never truly on her list. Hopefully she will get into some places.

Where are you applying? If you have any questions regarding Tufts, I may be able to help. I wish you lots of luck and I am sure you will have some fat envelopes come April.

Susan

By Upandover (Upandover) on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 12:28 am: Edit

Hiya, I was wondering whether my list included too many Reach schools and not enough Safeties or Matches.

My list of schools are Yale,Princeton, Harvard, MIT, Williams, Middlebury, Mount Holyoke, Macalester and Colgate.

I would really want to apply to more (Tufts, Smith, Oberlin, Kenyon) but my college counseller seems to think it enough and gets visibly fed-up when I hand up another School Report for her to finish.

Good luck to your daughter too, and a Happy New Year!

By Massdad (Massdad) on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 12:17 pm: Edit

Upandover,

Looking at your list, and not knowing your stats, I'd say none of your current schools would be considered a safety, unless you have SAT scores of 1500 or so, top 1% of class at a top school etc. (just exaggerating on the stats, but you get the idea.)

Even for your additional schools, only Kenyon is somewhat less selective.

So yes, I'd say you are light on match/safety schools. What does your counselor say?

By Thedad (Thedad) on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 03:48 pm: Edit

I would apply to at least two of Smith/Oberlin/Kenyon, no matter how annoyed your GC is. I think that Mount Holyoke may be a Safety, gauging by your other choices but that 2-3 Match schools would be a good idea.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 04:50 pm: Edit

HI, it is very hard to gauge your list without having all the basic information about you. In general as others have already said and you likely know as well, certain schools are not a total match for anyone and just very uncertain in terms of admissions for just about anybody. Many schools on your list are of that nature. However, a couple might be in the match category which again is hard to gauge without knowing more about you. I will assume you have excellent stats to have such a list so I am going to make a big assumption there. Mt. Holyoke, Macalester, and Colgate therefore MAY be match schools for you if I am assuming the stats thing correctly. So, basically you could use a safety school in there. None of those are that much of a safety. I do not think you need a large quantity of schools. Your list might suffice. If not, add one more match and one safety. If you are high up on stats, these might include Kenyon, Smith, or Oberlin at least as matches. Maybe pick one of those as a match and then find one safety that you like. Again, hard to say without knowing more. I think a very top student can have safety schools that may be considered matches for some kids. But I would have to know more about you to decide that.

I will wish you well and you have some really nice schools on your list but might feel better to add one more match and one safety. I do not think you need to add four more schools.

Susan

By Perry (Perry) on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 05:46 pm: Edit

By the way, Mt. Holyoke has gotten some very good press recently -- the Diane Arbus exhibit at the school's art gallery was featured in the NYT and the New York Review of Books. This followed by a wonderful article in the New York Review of Books by a Mt. Holyoke professor of english concerning a new book about Goya. In addition, Joseph Ellis, the award winning history professor, teaches at Mount Holyoke -- reputed to be an outstanding teacher despite the little incident involving his mythologizing his past.

By Thoughtfulmom (Thoughtfulmom) on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 10:50 pm: Edit

I found upandover's statistics in a message she posted to the Princeton University thread in November.

Upandover, you are really amazing!

You've got national recognition in physics, chemistry, and literature competitions; co-captain of track team and district recognition; also district recognition as a basketball player, and there's much more.

Incredible hook: three years of long distance roadracing with many impressive long distance races with impressive placements: 5Ks, 10Ks, halfmarathons, even a marathon. There is a steady improvement trend evident in the increasing high finishes.

Most amazingly you finished 42nd out of 4,000 runners in a marathon!!! How many high school students have even attempted a marathon, let alone placed that high!

SATs are excellent: 1510, 800 chem, 800 math iic, 710 writing. Valedictorian of your class, play the piano seriously, won a number of scholarship competitions, and a terrific list of other ECs.

And yet...I don't really think any of us is (other than possibly someone like the AisforAdmissions lady) is in a position to say much about your chances for admission anywhere, because you are an international student (from /Malaysia.)

Unfortunately, I don't know if there is such a thing as a "match" or "safety" for international students who require financial aid. There are very few colleges with the resources to admit International students on a need-blind basis and those few that do tend to be schools with extraordinarily high standards (and they often have a limited number of slots open for international students.)

An American student with these credentials who might have Harvard or Stanford as a reach might reasonably think that Mount Holyoke or Kenyon could be a match or possibly even a safety, but the same might not be true of an international student.

It is, unfortunately, a whole different ballgame for international students. I'm under the impression that virtually any school in this country is a reach for international students who require financial aid. Matches and safeties might need to be universities in one's own country.

There may be some American matches that could be added to the list, but I think it's best to ask the question of someone who knows more about the difficult details of international admissions than Susan or any of the rest of us American parents do. There might be subtle nuances depending on details like amount of financial need, special outreach programs at certain American colleges, etc.

By Marite (Marite) on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 11:31 pm: Edit

Upandover:

Did you apply to Brandeis? It has the Wien International Scholarship that is specifically designed for international students. The competition is fierce, but the scholarships are generous, and Brandeis is an excellent university.

By Upandover (Upandover) on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 11:48 pm: Edit

Money is always a problem. U.U
But I am applying to two Canadian univs - Waterloo and Univ of British Columbia, which everyone is like, "That's SO easy to get in." I hope that's true.
I have been accepted to a few UK univs, BUT the fees are about $100 000 for the whole three years there, and money is always a problem.
Hoping to get Cambridge (Desicions out soon!) then MAYBE we might qualify for some money from our country.

Marite--
With a little help from the Petersons Guide for International Students and some compiling of stats, Brandeis has very fierce competition. I did this amazing stats list (admission rates vs percentage of fin aid given and percentage of fin aid given vs size of intls in class)
of a lot of schools, and if anyone you know is an intl and needs financial aid very badly, I'll be happy to give this to them.

Thanks everyone for replying. Marite, Thoughtfulmum (wow, thanks! you have given my self-confidence a boost), Soozievt, Thedad, Massdad and Perry.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 10:57 am: Edit

I will add that you sound like a fantastic person and student. I did not realize you are international when I read the initial post and that alters the response somewhat. I am not qualified to advise you in that area but it sounds like you have researched it well. I wish you much luck. You sound like you have some promising chances.
Susan

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 07:21 pm: Edit

Upandover, I just "bumped" up a post on "College Search and Selection" that Carolyn put together titled "Financial Aid for International Students" or something of that sort. It is excellent with all sorts of information.
You do a great resume and would be an asset to any college who would be lucky enough to get you. Good luck.

By Bobmcc (Bobmcc) on Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 01:05 pm: Edit

http://www.macalester.edu/admissions/student_life/our_students/citizenship.html

geographic dist. of macalester class 2002-2006

i can't imagine you won't get into mac; however the only merit fin. aid that they have for US citizens is $5k for nat. merit.

But since they make "internationalism" such a big component of Mac's life, they have aid, targetted specifically to non-US applicants.
"over 200 students receive Kofi Annan International Scholarships to study at Macalester in the natural sciences, mathematics, social sciences, humanities and fine arts." but i don't have a clue as to the amount(s) of monies involved. That's over half the intl. students getting money from that source.

By Yonghokim (Yonghokim) on Thursday, April 08, 2004 - 02:33 am: Edit

foreign students get in average similar amounts to u.s. students. 20, 25, 30.. are numbers I've heard.